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Secession

Blogs > targ
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targ
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Malaysia445 Posts
March 06 2013 08:25 GMT
#1
As a Chinese myself, I often hear other Chinese talking about Taiwan and the issue of its independence.

My personal feeling is that a state should have the right to determine whether it wishes to belong to a bigger country or not, thus I am in support of Taiwanese independence by principle. However many of my relatives disagree strongly with this viewpoint.

I'm curious to know what you guys think of the right to secession, in regards to the Taiwan issue and other areas as well.

*
http://billyfoong.blogspot.com/ my other opinions are here
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
March 06 2013 08:55 GMT
#2
I would say if the majority of Taiwan wanted to be independent then they should be able to gain their independence, however if a random section of a country that had no real difference to the majority of the country, for example the south-west section of England, wanted independence then I would say no, as there would be no grounds for it.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
March 06 2013 09:42 GMT
#3
Citizens of a country often call for independence when they see a clear cultural rift between themselves and the rest of the country. Although this brings up secession talks to the table, it is not sufficient for secession on its own. A sovereign state has a long list of criteria. Some of these are really obvious things such as having a government and a military. But in order for a part of a country to separate, this list of criteria must be met. Many separatist movements in the past were turned down because they would not be able to form a functioning country. China and Taiwan have a very long history that I don't even know the half of, so I really can't judge if China should give Taiwan independence or not. China's politics are a lot different that western liberal democracies as well, which complicates things. It's perfectly normal for different cultural groups to exist within the same country. It's also perfectly normal to give certain cultural groups some degree of self-governance. For example, here in Canada we give indigenous people a small degree of self-governance. It is a fair compromise because they cannot feasibly form their own country. Another issue with separation is that it is the most obvious solution to many tensions, but not the correct one. Self-governance doesn't address a lot of the root issues that causes these separatist movements. Some issues such as ethnic nationalism have gotten much worse when countries have split apart in the past.

So looking back to the issue of Taiwan and China. Even if most people in Taiwan want to separate, that doesn't mean it should be allowed. In order for independence to be granted, Taiwan must firstly be able to function independently, and also the issues that exist between China and Taiwan have to be fixed by a Taiwan self-governance. I have no idea whether or not Taiwan should separate, but the idea I would like to bring forth is that the issue is far deeper than people wanting it.
targ
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Malaysia445 Posts
March 06 2013 10:07 GMT
#4
On March 06 2013 18:42 Chairman Ray wrote:
Citizens of a country often call for independence when they see a clear cultural rift between themselves and the rest of the country. Although this brings up secession talks to the table, it is not sufficient for secession on its own. A sovereign state has a long list of criteria. Some of these are really obvious things such as having a government and a military. But in order for a part of a country to separate, this list of criteria must be met. Many separatist movements in the past were turned down because they would not be able to form a functioning country. China and Taiwan have a very long history that I don't even know the half of, so I really can't judge if China should give Taiwan independence or not. China's politics are a lot different that western liberal democracies as well, which complicates things. It's perfectly normal for different cultural groups to exist within the same country. It's also perfectly normal to give certain cultural groups some degree of self-governance. For example, here in Canada we give indigenous people a small degree of self-governance. It is a fair compromise because they cannot feasibly form their own country. Another issue with separation is that it is the most obvious solution to many tensions, but not the correct one. Self-governance doesn't address a lot of the root issues that causes these separatist movements. Some issues such as ethnic nationalism have gotten much worse when countries have split apart in the past.

So looking back to the issue of Taiwan and China. Even if most people in Taiwan want to separate, that doesn't mean it should be allowed. In order for independence to be granted, Taiwan must firstly be able to function independently, and also the issues that exist between China and Taiwan have to be fixed by a Taiwan self-governance. I have no idea whether or not Taiwan should separate, but the idea I would like to bring forth is that the issue is far deeper than people wanting it.


I've heard that Quebec constantly talks about secession. Do you think they can do it if a popular vote gets passed on the issue?
http://billyfoong.blogspot.com/ my other opinions are here
targ
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Malaysia445 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-06 13:03:13
March 06 2013 10:07 GMT
#5

On March 06 2013 18:42 Chairman Ray wrote:
Citizens of a country often call for independence when they see a clear cultural rift between themselves and the rest of the country. Although this brings up secession talks to the table, it is not sufficient for secession on its own. A sovereign state has a long list of criteria. Some of these are really obvious things such as having a government and a military. But in order for a part of a country to separate, this list of criteria must be met. Many separatist movements in the past were turned down because they would not be able to form a functioning country. China and Taiwan have a very long history that I don't even know the half of, so I really can't judge if China should give Taiwan independence or not. China's politics are a lot different that western liberal democracies as well, which complicates things. It's perfectly normal for different cultural groups to exist within the same country. It's also perfectly normal to give certain cultural groups some degree of self-governance. For example, here in Canada we give indigenous people a small degree of self-governance. It is a fair compromise because they cannot feasibly form their own country. Another issue with separation is that it is the most obvious solution to many tensions, but not the correct one. Self-governance doesn't address a lot of the root issues that causes these separatist movements. Some issues such as ethnic nationalism have gotten much worse when countries have split apart in the past.

So looking back to the issue of Taiwan and China. Even if most people in Taiwan want to separate, that doesn't mean it should be allowed. In order for independence to be granted, Taiwan must firstly be able to function independently, and also the issues that exist between China and Taiwan have to be fixed by a Taiwan self-governance. I have no idea whether or not Taiwan should separate, but the idea I would like to bring forth is that the issue is far deeper than people wanting it.


I've heard that Quebec constantly talks about secession. Do you think they can do it if a popular vote gets passed on the issue? Just curious on the matter.
http://billyfoong.blogspot.com/ my other opinions are here
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-06 12:28:28
March 06 2013 12:28 GMT
#6
Well if you ask the ruling party of Taiwan, the Kuomintang, they don't believe in independence either. They believe that there is one China and they're the rightful ruler of it.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
March 06 2013 12:54 GMT
#7
frankly china seceded from taiwan as far as im concerned
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Burrfoot
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States1176 Posts
March 06 2013 13:02 GMT
#8
Technically the Chinese that fled the communists "invaded" Taiwan, so if somehow the native folks (not many left!) there decided to form a nation that would work! (My mom's family fled to Taiwan with the Air Force)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Davlok-1847/career
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
March 06 2013 18:06 GMT
#9
After studying about China and reading Edwin Moise's book on the subject, there will really never be a secession since the GMD which fled to Taiwan after losing to Mao's CCP in the Civil war never really accepted Mao. In their eyes there is no reason to succeed since that would be stating that the CCP actually does control mainland China.
User was warned for too many mimes.
itsjustatank
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Hong Kong9179 Posts
March 06 2013 18:15 GMT
#10
You realize that the very title of your blog can be incendiary regarding this issue, right?
Photographer"nosotros estamos backamos" - setsuko
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
March 06 2013 18:16 GMT
#11
On March 06 2013 19:07 targ wrote:

Show nested quote +
On March 06 2013 18:42 Chairman Ray wrote:
Citizens of a country often call for independence when they see a clear cultural rift between themselves and the rest of the country. Although this brings up secession talks to the table, it is not sufficient for secession on its own. A sovereign state has a long list of criteria. Some of these are really obvious things such as having a government and a military. But in order for a part of a country to separate, this list of criteria must be met. Many separatist movements in the past were turned down because they would not be able to form a functioning country. China and Taiwan have a very long history that I don't even know the half of, so I really can't judge if China should give Taiwan independence or not. China's politics are a lot different that western liberal democracies as well, which complicates things. It's perfectly normal for different cultural groups to exist within the same country. It's also perfectly normal to give certain cultural groups some degree of self-governance. For example, here in Canada we give indigenous people a small degree of self-governance. It is a fair compromise because they cannot feasibly form their own country. Another issue with separation is that it is the most obvious solution to many tensions, but not the correct one. Self-governance doesn't address a lot of the root issues that causes these separatist movements. Some issues such as ethnic nationalism have gotten much worse when countries have split apart in the past.

So looking back to the issue of Taiwan and China. Even if most people in Taiwan want to separate, that doesn't mean it should be allowed. In order for independence to be granted, Taiwan must firstly be able to function independently, and also the issues that exist between China and Taiwan have to be fixed by a Taiwan self-governance. I have no idea whether or not Taiwan should separate, but the idea I would like to bring forth is that the issue is far deeper than people wanting it.


I've heard that Quebec constantly talks about secession. Do you think they can do it if a popular vote gets passed on the issue? Just curious on the matter.

Yes, they can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_re_Secession_of_Quebec

This ruling was popular to both the Quebec and Federal groups. Quebec got an assurance that if they passed a referendum for independence the Federal government would be required to negotiate with them. The Federal government got an assurance that the Quebec government would need to negotiate with them, rather than separating unilaterally.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
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