• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:50
CEST 03:50
KST 10:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China1Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16
StarCraft 2
General
Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 690 users

The X factor

Blogs > tjtombo
Post a Reply
tjtombo
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States295 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-15 02:50:09
February 15 2013 02:49 GMT
#1
The X factor

Sc2, like any competition, has a winner and a loser. At the end of any tournament, match, or series, one player must win and the other must lose. Most games are decided by A: One player, whether mechanically or mentally, out classing his opponent with raw skill or B: a build order cross aka a lucky break. While straight skill is important, it marginally diminishes as you look at higher level players because every player has the mechanics and knows what they are doing. So then people could say "Star craft 2 is a game largely of build orders and luck or the faster player always win". However, this fails to explain how players like Taeja or MVP, at some point in their career, simply dominated tournaments. It is not that these players are doing radically different things than everyone else. True MVP's mech play was innovative, but he is still more successful than those who copied it. Taeja does not play very different than most players, but he still managed to have much better results. For months all MC did was two-base all in but he still was coined the "Boss Toss" and hailed the best protoss in the world for over a year. Stephano is a phenomenal player who revolutionized the ZVP matchup. Even after his style has been "figured out" he is still known as a top Zerg versus Protoss player in the world. So what sets these players apart from masses of mechanically sound players who can perform the same strategies? I believe that the mindsets of these players define their success just as much as their mechanics or their innovative strategies.

Firstly, let us look at Liquid Taeja. Why Taeja? He isn’t a player to be known for his crazy mind set or personality! However, Taeja has a very unique view on games that is clearly visible in his play. Simply put, Taeja views every game as a test of skill vs. skill. At the same time, he has A TON of skill. Now this mind set might seem simple and obvious, but it is clearly effective! Look at his IPTL performance; he stated that he takes every game as an individual test of skill! Therefore if he has confidence in his skill, he shouldn’t and doesn’t generally get nervous in matches. He can tell himself, I believe that in THIS match on THIS map, I have more skill than my opponent! Therefore all he has to do is execute what he knows. This is what makes Taeja great.

Another perfect example of mindset showing in a player is everyone’s favorite Frenchman, EG Stephano (RC). If you are at all involved in the sc2 community, you know Stephano. If you know Stephano, then you are definitely familiar with his overwhelmingly confident attitude. He is known to in game chat his opponents (LOL Proleague), be a little goofy, and look very bored and uninterested while slaying top Koreans. Stephano IS a player of exceptional skill, however, other zergs have his macro. Other zergs have his multitasking. Other zergs can do the exact same style as he does. Why does he have such success? He goes into every game telling himself he can and will beat his opponent. Imagine for a minute you are Stephano at WCS Europe. You could tell yourself “This is a zerg heavy tournament, and my worst matchup is ZvZ! Plus everyone expects me to win! What if I fail?” Do you think Stephano would play half as well with that mindset? Of course not, but if what he shows us is right, I would assume his mindset to be more like: “I am the best damn foreigner in the world! I bet my opponent is shaking in his booth!” With the kind of confidence that Stephano exhibits, it is no wonder that he is so dominant.

If you have read so far, you can probably see that the common factor here is confidence. Need more examples of successful players that seem to bleed confidence? Life, Parting, MC, Seed, DRG, and many others share a ton of mindset commonalities. So I guess the whole point of this is that if you are, or hope to be competitive in sc2, practice your ass off and remember….You CAN do it.


Love you guys <3,
xO Caboose


**
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
February 15 2013 08:45 GMT
#2
So how long did you live with the players before you were able to pinpoint what aspect of their mindeset sets them apart from all the other pros?
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
tjtombo
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States295 Posts
February 15 2013 19:20 GMT
#3
I based my hypothesis off observation and interviews! Also, take stephano for example, he makes his confidence quite obvious. I am just making an observation about mindsets i have noticed and their correlation to success? If you disagree about their mindset feel free to make a counter argument!
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
clementdudu
Profile Joined September 2010
France819 Posts
February 15 2013 20:11 GMT
#4
On February 16 2013 04:20 tjtombo wrote:
I based my hypothesis off observation and interviews! Also, take stephano for example, he makes his confidence quite obvious. I am just making an observation about mindsets i have noticed and their correlation to success? If you disagree about their mindset feel free to make a counter argument!

well the part about taeja is pure speculation and pretty much reads like a bball interview with key words like play hard,confidence and execute the plays,which in the end takes 5 lines to say nothing;)
the stephano part is alright and actually based on what the player said.
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-15 21:23:14
February 15 2013 21:19 GMT
#5
I think it makes more sense to say confidence comes as a result of being really good at the game, not the other way around. MC was pretty confident too, but then he got knocked out of code S and then code A, and only recently started making a comeback. In fact in an interview he stated (maybe jokingly) that is weakness was "overconfidence".

But the fundamental thing is that people don't have confidence for no reason - they only develop it in themselves when they prove to themselves that they can win against the very best. If Stephano continuously lost against Koreans like everyone else he probably wouldn't be very confident. He is only confident because he has shown that he can win. So it proves that the basis for all the confidence is skill, and that confidence is really just something incidental that happens to come along with being really skilled, just like how geniuses are typically arrogant and dismissive of other people with "lesser" minds. They are arrogant and confident because they see how good they are every day compared to everyone else.

To sum up confidence is just a consequence of being good at the game, and having a certainty that your understanding of the game is correct. Its just an indicator of how comfortable you are playing in various situations, and knowing how to respond to various things. But its not a magical force that will make everything work out better. True it may reduce your stress, but ultimately what matters is your decisions.

Confidence is useless if your attack is ill-suited against what your opponent is doing, confidence in your micro is useless if you clump everything up or attack through a choke point. The only reason you think confidence is the X factor is because its intimately tied to *competence*. So no surprise...the real X factor is how hard you practise, and understand the game.

Edit: Also I'm not sure you can say you know enough about how MVP plays vs. how other terrans play to say that it all comes down to some intangible quality like a feeling. There has to be some decision MVP is making in the game that affects how the game plays out. It may not be obvious, but it literally has to be there because otherwise its just silly to think confidence magically makes the game work out in MVP's favor . Its his decision making, and you can bet he doesn't base his decisions on unfounded confidence, but a rational approach to understanding the game
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-16 02:25:56
February 16 2013 02:25 GMT
#6
The basic problem with this is that you are only observing the people who won. They all have a confident mindset. Great. This does not make confidence "the X Factor"

Unfortunately, most of the people who lost were also confident. Professionals don't play all day long because they think they are trash players but they can sneak a trophy while nobody is looking. Interviewing champions after they become champions also completely confounds everything because people have a powerful tendancy to revise their emotional states based on results. In other words, a player who was really thinking "fuck, this guy is really good, I think I've got a chance but I hope he doesn't shit on me", will tell you that they never REALLY doubted themselves after they win.

Its like sending 1000 men over Niagra Falls and then looking at the 5 who survived and saying: "Ha, all these men can swim! I've found the X factor that will make you survive 200ft drops over a waterfall!". Well no shit, if you can't swim you're definitely gonna drown, but of the other 995 dead fuckers, most of them could probably swim too.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 235
Livibee 184
RuFF_SC2 140
ProTech63
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 965
Noble 8
Icarus 7
LuMiX 1
Dota 2
monkeys_forever928
Counter-Strike
tarik_tv7267
Fnx 1741
Stewie2K1164
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King95
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor181
Other Games
summit1g11350
fl0m653
ViBE263
Maynarde206
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick55232
BasetradeTV158
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH152
• davetesta39
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
9h 10m
Replay Cast
22h 10m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 8h
WardiTV European League
1d 14h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 22h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.