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This blog post wasn't serious at all. I was hoping more would catch on, but it doesn't look like it lol.
Back to the drawing/writing board.
I read that topic today here and thought: yeah, it is. As I read further, I realized he was completely right:
There is much talk about the casting quality of Pro League right now, but it seems obvious that the $5 price for 8 months couldn't possibly pay for experienced, established casters to move to Korea to cast. So I'm curious, rather than complaining about something that obviously doesn't add up mathematically, would you pay more for better quality casters?
KeSPA is too cheap. If we compare to how much we valued KeSPA back in Brood War and now, we can see how valued it is and how much prestige KeSPA beholds in their events. Look at what iNcontrol said about Proleague:
On December 27 iNcontrol on Reddit wrote: ATM they both cannot analyze the game at a standard we'd expect at an IPL, Mlg, esl, DH, NASL etc.. So why is anyone ok with it for pro league? The blame here is kespa.Find enough money to make it no question that its worth someone who is established's time to move out. That way we get a polished league with top notch games. If you can't afford that then make concessions to strike a deal with doa's employer and let him cast, it was fine.
On December 27 2012 03:32 Liquid`NonY wrote: I can't help but feel proud of the rest of the world, a pride which perhaps only veteran BW fans could understand, a pride grown from the ashes of nearly a decade of KeSPA (and its predecessors) being the be-all and end-all while the rest of the world was nothing. We had an opportunity to develop and we did. We developed so much that there are a dozen or more established commentators who couldn't be convinced to take the PL job.
How much prestige is Proleague worth? About 300,000,000 KR Wong, that's about 277,000 Canadian dollars. Typical teams are about 8 to 10 players, meaning top two teams only earn 17,312 Canadian dollars for nearly a year's worth of competition and participation.
Only 17,000$ per person. MLG gives 25,000$ per person for three days work, easy money for a KeSPA pro (Flash got fourth without breaking a sweat at MLG Fall Champ). Only 5$ and I get to see some of the best players in StarCraft II compete. GSL gives 42,000 for one player and the GSTL gives about 40,000$ for the two teams and I have to pay up to 39$ for a single GSL Season.
All that extra money is going Tastosis who are veteran players. So I I paid the equivalent amount to KeSPA, maybe they'll pay SNM & Whiplash more money to cast better (maybe even learn Korean and teach us Korean mid-game! I always wanted to say "playgu" in Korean). Maybe with the extra money, they can afford computers and observe each match within the game! That'd be swell!
So all I'm saying is: if KeSPA is so prestige, why are we only paying 5$ for it? That's barely any Wong to afford proper casters. If I throw more money at them, we can improve the casters or better yet; get new casters to assist the current casters to commentate and cast better from a restream across country! If we pay more, we get better content, better commentary, KeSPA pros would play better and no one can criticize KeSPA for being poor [read: lazy].
just 0.02 cents, which I'm deducting from KeSPA 5$ payment.
 
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United States33163 Posts
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I used Microsoft Word to correct all spelling mistakes. There are no mistakes in either logic or spelling.
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It's really cheap, 5 bucks for 8 months almost seems like a lie.
They should charge more, maybe 5 per month? and have better casters/production.
Even being cheap, i didn't buy it yet, cause I dont think the production is worth my money, hehehe...
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On December 27 2012 09:48 fabiorlopes wrote:
It's really cheap, 5 bucks for 8 months almost seems like a lie.
They should charge more, maybe 5 per month? and have better casters/production.
Even being cheap, i didn't buy it yet, cause I dont think the production is worth my money, hehehe...
I didn't buy it yet. I'm saving for the GSL, they're better because all the foreign teams pick up only GSL players.
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3030 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
I used Microsoft Word to correct all spelling mistakes. There are no mistakes in either logic or spelling.
A second human > Microsoft Word spelling/grammar check =x
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On December 27 2012 09:57 blahz0r wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 09:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
I used Microsoft Word to correct all spelling mistakes. There are no mistakes in either logic or spelling. A second human > Microsoft Word spelling/grammar check =x
Several humans made Microsoft Word and thus indirectly have corrected everything wrong with my post.
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most ppl that payed the 5 bucks for it all wouldve also payed 10 easily. i dont know how they came up with those 5 bucks
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On December 27 2012 10:02 KalWarkov wrote:
most ppl that payed the 5 bucks for it all wouldve also payed 10 easily. i dont know how they came up with those 5 bucks
I pay 10 for other stuff, I would have paid 20 for those stuff too.
I'm guessing multiples of 5 or 10-digit prices are strong persuaders for purchases.
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On December 27 2012 09:51 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 09:48 fabiorlopes wrote:
It's really cheap, 5 bucks for 8 months almost seems like a lie.
They should charge more, maybe 5 per month? and have better casters/production.
Even being cheap, i didn't buy it yet, cause I dont think the production is worth my money, hehehe... I didn't buy it yet. I'm saving for the GSL, they're better because all the foreign teams pick up only GSL players.
You mean like Jaedong and Sea?
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KESPA and poor don't go together in a sentence unless there is an "is not" in the middle. The prizepool is considered bonus (I think?) on top of the salaries that they make, and the salaries are actually pretty substantial.
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On December 27 2012 10:13 MountainDewJunkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 09:51 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 09:48 fabiorlopes wrote:
It's really cheap, 5 bucks for 8 months almost seems like a lie.
They should charge more, maybe 5 per month? and have better casters/production.
Even being cheap, i didn't buy it yet, cause I dont think the production is worth my money, hehehe... I didn't buy it yet. I'm saving for the GSL, they're better because all the foreign teams pick up only GSL players. You mean like Jaedong and Sea?
No, like SSon & Luvsic
On December 27 2012 10:14 NotRandoMNamE wrote:
KESPA and poor don't go together in a sentence unless there is an "is not" in the middle. The prizepool is considered bonus (I think?) on top of the salaries that they make, and the salaries are actually pretty substantial.
They all live together, I'm sure they're paid more than GSL players considering they dont have bunk beds and can afford rulers.
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Nice fonts
Can you throw some wongs at me too? Cant have too much wongs nowadays!
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On December 27 2012 10:19 lazyitachi wrote:
Nice fonts
Can you throw some wongs at me too? Cant have too much wongs nowadays!
Comic Sans MS is banned on TL ):
Sending you wongs and devil dogs now
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Quite frankly, and I want to say this nicely, but the Proleague matches themselves haven't been worth anything so far. Charging GSL levels of subscription for their current product just simply would not cut it for me.
I am not talking about the Flash's and the Soulkey's, those guys are obviously amazing, but the general quality of even Code A surpasses the quality of proleague by such a large margin that I would not consider paying much personally.
In my mind they are going to have to wait until the level of play gets to a level where it is actually worth paying anything before revisiting their model.
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On December 27 2012 10:21 arioch wrote:
Quite frankly, and I want to say this nicely, but the Proleague matches themselves haven't been worth anything so far. Charging GSL levels of subscription for their current product just simply would not cut it for me.
I am not talking about the Flash's and the Soulkey's, those guys are obviously amazing, but the general quality of even Code A surpasses the quality of proleague by such a large margin that I would not consider paying much personally.
In my mind they are going to have to wait until the level of play gets to a level where it is actually worth paying anything before revisiting their model.
If you gave them more money, maybe they can motivate the players to play better. That's ultimately why the NA scene is failing, not enough circulation and money.
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On December 27 2012 10:20 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 10:19 lazyitachi wrote:
Nice fonts
Can you throw some wongs at me too? Cant have too much wongs nowadays! Comic Sans MS is banned on TL ): Sending you wongs and devil dogs now
srsly the wongs and the weird fonts are very painful to the eyes ><
OT: throwing money might be a solution but then again Kespa may have their own agenda on choosing those casters.
Tbh was kinda disappointed I cant watch vods but then I found some Youtubes with Korean commentary and it was great watch despite zero korean language skills.... I find that a good solution if I ever miss the live stream.
But then again I like watching the nice strats (JD multi prong infestor funguuuu)  )
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On December 27 2012 10:30 lazyitachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 10:20 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 10:19 lazyitachi wrote:
Nice fonts
Can you throw some wongs at me too? Cant have too much wongs nowadays! Comic Sans MS is banned on TL ): Sending you wongs and devil dogs now srsly the wongs and the weird fonts are very painful to the eyes ><
the smaller fonts is just pointless context that don't alter my quoting's intention whatsoever.
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On December 27 2012 10:30 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 10:21 arioch wrote:
Quite frankly, and I want to say this nicely, but the Proleague matches themselves haven't been worth anything so far. Charging GSL levels of subscription for their current product just simply would not cut it for me.
I am not talking about the Flash's and the Soulkey's, those guys are obviously amazing, but the general quality of even Code A surpasses the quality of proleague by such a large margin that I would not consider paying much personally.
In my mind they are going to have to wait until the level of play gets to a level where it is actually worth paying anything before revisiting their model. If you gave them more money, maybe they can motivate the players to play better. That's ultimately why the NA scene is failing, not enough circulation and money.
The problem with that is that 95% or more of the starcraft 2 fans do not have any loyalty or even fond memories of the proleague as they never watched it, (myself included!).
Expecting the foreign scene to throw money at a company producing poor games with horrible production and having caused so much controversy in the short life of starcraft 2 is not a realistic option, even when they have Flash to wave around as collateral.
They have not proved themselves to anyone other than the old school fans who are few and far between these days unfortunately.
I would like to see them succeed and produce really good and exciting content, similar to the broodwar heyday, but I am not sure if KESPA is flexible enough for it to happen...
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On December 27 2012 10:41 arioch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 10:30 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 10:21 arioch wrote:
Quite frankly, and I want to say this nicely, but the Proleague matches themselves haven't been worth anything so far. Charging GSL levels of subscription for their current product just simply would not cut it for me.
I am not talking about the Flash's and the Soulkey's, those guys are obviously amazing, but the general quality of even Code A surpasses the quality of proleague by such a large margin that I would not consider paying much personally.
In my mind they are going to have to wait until the level of play gets to a level where it is actually worth paying anything before revisiting their model. If you gave them more money, maybe they can motivate the players to play better. That's ultimately why the NA scene is failing, not enough circulation and money. The problem with that is that 95% or more of the starcraft 2 fans do not have any loyalty or even fond memories of the proleague as they never watched it, (myself included!). Expecting the foreign scene to throw money at a company producing poor games with horrible production and having caused so much controversy in the short life of starcraft 2 is not a realistic option, even when they have Flash to wave around as collateral. They have not proved themselves to anyone other than the old school fans who are few and far between these days unfortunately. I would like to see them succeed and produce really good and exciting content, similar to the broodwar heyday, but I am not sure if KESPA is flexible enough for it to happen...
Dawn of War & Age of Empires used to be the best RTS game for foreigners to watch. Now they all left and went to StarCraft II. I had so many fond memories watching those two RTS games + WCG.
KeSPA bends where the money blows, we can beat Korea in terms of payment and have them on our side. MLG is doing half the work for us.
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1st season
Not really sure where the most "efficient" price is (for anyone actually, let alone KESPA)
Realistically the only DRAW to proleague is that it should be the top level production rivalling GSL quality just because it's proleague, and it's players (who are going to play with shit backwards strategies for at least this whole season).
They can rake up the price as they get a better grasp of our scene and the foreign scene in general, and as they stabilize within starcraft 2 on all levels.
I think you're looking too much into it.
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i pay like $20 per month to watch the braziliand football (americans call it soccer) first division ...
I´m a cruzeiro fan, our mvp is an argentinian named Montillo, hes sallary is $300.000,00 per month.
Is any KESPA player making such money ? no!
$5 for 8 months is more than necessary to run a sc2 league, even the top one, people pays more to MLG, GSL or IPL just because they dont know how to measure money, what era are seeing is kespa players playing in better maps, better games and crushing "EG/TL team" like there´s no tomorrow, for only 5 bucks for 8 months.
Now you can ask me, what i prefer to see, top 4 of every MLG,GSL and IPL beeg zergs and shit, or watch an Proleague and see someone like Flash just run over zergs ?
Question here is simple, see zergs on GSL, IPL and MLG for 5 bucks a month, or watcj zerg, terrans and protoss on proleague for 5 bucks for 8 months? i know you know the answer.
Proleague is charging what is right, not raping the audiences pocket, dont blame them to respect you, please!
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On December 27 2012 11:30 Angel_ wrote:
1st season
Not really sure where the most "efficient" price is (for anyone actually, let alone KESPA)
Realistically the only DRAW to proleague is that it should be the top level production rivalling GSL quality just because it's proleague, and it's players (who are going to play with shit backwards strategies for at least this whole season).
They can rake up the price as they get a better grasp of our scene and the foreign scene in general, and as they stabilize within starcraft 2 on all levels.
I think you're looking too much into it.
They should start seeding GSL players into Proleague like GSL does for foreigners, then we'll see some hardened SC2 strategies.
On December 27 2012 11:58 NoFool wrote:
i pay like $20 per month to watch the braziliand football (americans call it soccer) first division ...
I´m a cruzeiro fan, our mvp is an argentinian named Montillo, hes sallary is $300.000,00 per month.
Is any KESPA player making such money ? no!
$5 for 8 months is more than necessary to run a sc2 league, even the top one, people pays more to MLG, GSL or IPL just because they dont know how to measure money, what era are seeing is kespa players playing in better maps, better games and crushing "EG/TL team" like there´s no tomorrow, for only 5 bucks for 8 months.
Now you can ask me, what i prefer to see, top 4 of every MLG,GSL and IPL beeg zergs and shit, or watch an Proleague and see someone like Flash just run over zergs ?
Question here is simple, see zergs on GSL, IPL and MLG for 5 bucks a month, or watcj zerg, terrans and protoss on proleague for 5 bucks for 8 months? i know you know the answer.
Proleague is charging what is right, not raping the audiences pocket, dont blame them to respect you, please!
I'd pay more for more KeSPA BW converted maps. Someone should let MLG/IPL know as well! Inconsistent map makes for more interesting games!
I agree, too many Zergs beating every other race is boring as hell. All the players are the same caliber and level.
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I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while.
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On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while.
I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone!
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On December 27 2012 13:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while. I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone!
But was it? For all the community knows it's MLG's partnership with KESPA and advice from MLG about how much backlash we can cause about money when we think it's unfair that caused the price to start as low as it is.
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On December 27 2012 13:04 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 13:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while. I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone! But was it? For all the community knows it's MLG's partnership with KESPA and advice from MLG about how much backlash we can cause about money when we think it's unfair that caused the price to start as low as it is.
I think KeSPA makes all its money from actual attendance just like NASL charging 60$ to see their finals event.
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i think the low subscription is a good move considering they`re trying to expose their league to more fans and the players are still working the game out. Prize comparisons are silly seeing as the proleaguers are on salaries. The wongs are annoying too
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On December 27 2012 13:08 Scarecrow wrote:
i think the low subscription is a good move considering they`re trying to expose their league to more fans and the players are still working the game out. Prize comparisons are silly seeing as the proleaguers are on salaries. The wongs are annoying too
I agree, wongs are annoying. Everyone should be paid in American dollars.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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On December 27 2012 13:27 Rekrul wrote:
makin it rain man-wongs
Who are you Aretha Franklin?
This is a serious discussion.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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there's nothing wong with his post guys
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On December 27 2012 13:37 Rekrul wrote:
i just love korean wong
you would
On December 27 2012 13:46 Ghin wrote:
there's nothing wong with his post guys
you should skim the title and post your thoughts
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On December 27 2012 13:07 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 13:04 Angel_ wrote:On December 27 2012 13:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while. I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone! But was it? For all the community knows it's MLG's partnership with KESPA and advice from MLG about how much backlash we can cause about money when we think it's unfair that caused the price to start as low as it is. I think KeSPA makes all its money from actual attendance just like NASL charging 60$ to see their finals event.
Are you talking about them making money from the live audience? You're aware that it has always been free to attend PL, right?
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On December 27 2012 13:58 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 13:07 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 13:04 Angel_ wrote:On December 27 2012 13:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while. I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone! But was it? For all the community knows it's MLG's partnership with KESPA and advice from MLG about how much backlash we can cause about money when we think it's unfair that caused the price to start as low as it is. I think KeSPA makes all its money from actual attendance just like NASL charging 60$ to see their finals event. Are you talking about them making money from the live audience? You're aware that it has always been free to attend PL, right?
Yes, but Koreans are mostly of the christian faith, so I'm sure they give away their lunch money since they're sneaking out to go watch Proleague during school.
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On December 27 2012 14:03 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 13:58 Pokebunny wrote:On December 27 2012 13:07 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 13:04 Angel_ wrote:On December 27 2012 13:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while. I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone! But was it? For all the community knows it's MLG's partnership with KESPA and advice from MLG about how much backlash we can cause about money when we think it's unfair that caused the price to start as low as it is. I think KeSPA makes all its money from actual attendance just like NASL charging 60$ to see their finals event. Are you talking about them making money from the live audience? You're aware that it has always been free to attend PL, right? Yes, but Koreans are mostly of the christian faith, so I'm sure they give away their lunch money since they're sneaking out to go watch Proleague during school.
What the fuck are you even talking about anymore
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On December 27 2012 14:03 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 13:58 Pokebunny wrote:On December 27 2012 13:07 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 13:04 Angel_ wrote:On December 27 2012 13:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while. I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone! But was it? For all the community knows it's MLG's partnership with KESPA and advice from MLG about how much backlash we can cause about money when we think it's unfair that caused the price to start as low as it is. I think KeSPA makes all its money from actual attendance just like NASL charging 60$ to see their finals event. Are you talking about them making money from the live audience? You're aware that it has always been free to attend PL, right? Yes, but Koreans are mostly of the christian faith, so I'm sure they give away their lunch money since they're sneaking out to go watch Proleague during school.
At this point I can't tell if your blog is supposed to be satirical or serious.
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On December 27 2012 14:14 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 14:03 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 13:58 Pokebunny wrote:On December 27 2012 13:07 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 13:04 Angel_ wrote:On December 27 2012 13:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while. I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone! But was it? For all the community knows it's MLG's partnership with KESPA and advice from MLG about how much backlash we can cause about money when we think it's unfair that caused the price to start as low as it is. I think KeSPA makes all its money from actual attendance just like NASL charging 60$ to see their finals event. Are you talking about them making money from the live audience? You're aware that it has always been free to attend PL, right? Yes, but Koreans are mostly of the christian faith, so I'm sure they give away their lunch money since they're sneaking out to go watch Proleague during school. At this point I can't tell if your blog is supposed to be satirical or serious.
Why would it be satirical? I took a lot of time researching all the statistics, prize money/math and price-comparison og broadcasting through Liquipedia. It requires a lot of precise keywords to find the right information.
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On December 27 2012 14:16 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 14:14 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On December 27 2012 14:03 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 13:58 Pokebunny wrote:On December 27 2012 13:07 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 13:04 Angel_ wrote:On December 27 2012 13:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 12:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I think they're trying to use the $5 thing to get people used to buying it, and then they'll jack up the prices later once the fan-base is more firmly established.
that's why I'm getting in on the ground floor. any way you look at it, $5 for 8 months of PL is almost thievery. and actually, the games on PL have been some of the most fun and interesting one's I've watched in a while. I prefer MLG's higher-priced 3-day event and then lowering the price through sponsored coupons, that was really hitting two birds with one stone! But was it? For all the community knows it's MLG's partnership with KESPA and advice from MLG about how much backlash we can cause about money when we think it's unfair that caused the price to start as low as it is. I think KeSPA makes all its money from actual attendance just like NASL charging 60$ to see their finals event. Are you talking about them making money from the live audience? You're aware that it has always been free to attend PL, right? Yes, but Koreans are mostly of the christian faith, so I'm sure they give away their lunch money since they're sneaking out to go watch Proleague during school. At this point I can't tell if your blog is supposed to be satirical or serious. Why would it be satirical? I took a lot of time researching all the statistics, prize money/math and price-comparison og broadcasting through Liquipedia. It requires a lot of precise keywords to find the right information.
But then you're suggesting that school kids play truant from school and donate their lunch money to KeSPA because of religious reasons because ProLeague is free to attend as a response to the valid point Pokebunny raised.
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It depends on what market they are focusing on. $5 for America/Euro is obviously very low however for most of Asian countries, I don't know if anyone would pay any more than that...
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Man it's so cheap, I would easily pay $50 for it and that would probably be super worth it even! If I can no longer have my Nevake/Jon747, then I guess I'll have to watch VODs on Twitch ><. I wanna watch ZerO, and since he hasn't qualified for GSL yet, this is where I'll have to watch his matches, along with all the other sick players :D!!~!
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Yeah, Proleague does seem cheap to me. I like my HD and all, but it's not even true HD since they're not OBSing the game itself, and the current OBSing isn't that good (YET! I heard OBS were legends themselves, can't wait until they get better). The prize pool is great, though it is for about a yearlong season (or is it 8 months?). Casting could do a great deal of work, as much as I love SNM for translating.
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On December 27 2012 14:25 a9arnn wrote:
Man it's so cheap, I would easily pay $50 for it and that would probably be super worth it even! If I can no longer have my Nevake/Jon747, then I guess I'll have to watch VODs on Twitch ><. I wanna watch ZerO, and since he hasn't qualified for GSL yet, this is where I'll have to watch his matches, along with all the other sick players :D!!~!
The vods are uploaded on the esportstv youtube channel that you can watch for free. Should still pay though 5$ is so cheap 
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On December 27 2012 14:44 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 14:25 a9arnn wrote:
Man it's so cheap, I would easily pay $50 for it and that would probably be super worth it even! If I can no longer have my Nevake/Jon747, then I guess I'll have to watch VODs on Twitch ><. I wanna watch ZerO, and since he hasn't qualified for GSL yet, this is where I'll have to watch his matches, along with all the other sick players :D!!~! The vods are uploaded on the esportstv youtube channel that you can watch for free. Should still pay though 5$ is so cheap
They're losing half their market if they don't upload it on Tudou for China.
On December 27 2012 14:38 RiceAgainst wrote:
Yeah, Proleague does seem cheap to me. I like my HD and all, but it's not even true HD since they're not OBSing the game itself, and the current OBSing isn't that good (YET! I heard OBS were legends themselves, can't wait until they get better). The prize pool is great, though it is for about a yearlong season (or is it 8 months?). Casting could do a great deal of work, as much as I love SNM for translating.
Cheap doesn't mean its prestigious. Should raise prices so its equal to how we should view KeSPA and its leagues of amazing players.
On December 27 2012 14:25 a9arnn wrote:
Man it's so cheap, I would easily pay $50 for it and that would probably be super worth it even! If I can no longer have my Nevake/Jon747, then I guess I'll have to watch VODs on Twitch ><. I wanna watch ZerO, and since he hasn't qualified for GSL yet, this is where I'll have to watch his matches, along with all the other sick players :D!!~!
Hm, you propose paying 50, that's a multiple of 10. I support your number!
On December 27 2012 14:24 haduken wrote:
It depends on what market they are focusing on. $5 for America/Euro is obviously very low however for most of Asian countries, I don't know if anyone would pay any more than that...
If they tell US people to pay 537 wong, then they will think it is a lot and will watch KeSPA because they paid so much for it.
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Australia7069 Posts
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Yeah I think it's really hard to say. There's the idea of making it so cheap that anyone will want to buy in (e.g. this is how SK's music industry is, with a long-term music subscription fee that's ridiculously cheap so that there's little piracy), but when there aren't that many adopters and it's just so cheap, it's hard to do great things with such little capital :X
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28084 Posts
I think it is a little cheap. But I won't complain, haha
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On December 27 2012 15:52 Aerisky wrote:
Yeah I think it's really hard to say. There's the idea of making it so cheap that anyone will want to buy in (e.g. this is how SK's music industry is, with a long-term music subscription fee that's ridiculously cheap so that there's little piracy), but when there aren't that many adopters and it's just so cheap, it's hard to do great things with such little capital :X
I agree, I dunno how KeSPA survived so long with Brood War without the foreigner-base to really sustain their business. BW was pirated a lot by foreigners.
On December 27 2012 15:54 TheEmulator wrote:I think it is a little cheap. But I won't complain, haha
You should, it's the right thing to do as paying customers.
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It is too cheap, but then again I don't have to pay as I watch the korean streams as I live in Korea and I find korean soothing. I feel like they're not used to a paid system where people pay to watch their games. SCBW was free, PL is free to koreans and the money they make from the foreign stream is just a bonus. They should charge more, but they are inexperienced when it comes to a pricing model, and SEVERELY underestimate the market willing to pay for the HD passes, as Koreans wouldn't pay for it at all.
We also have to remember that they get sponsorships from large companies to put on the proleague. Maybe as sponsorship runs dry, they will see us as a way to sustain their business model, but until then I can imagine it staying dirt cheap.
I still think that foreign companies should be looking at sponsoring Korean teams/leagues as that is the highest prestige of progaming, and their names would be associated with the prestige of the tournament. I'm still unsure as to why companies like LG (korean side) and Microsoft (US) haven't sponsored proleagues. Maybe it's just not worth it for their nieche, and maybe LG isn't allowed to sponsor as samsung own a significant stake in KESPA. Look at the LOL OGN broadcasts, which are sponsored by olympus. That is a big sponsor, that hits home and foregin markets. But is the foreign viewership the same for LoL? I don't think so, as most the spectators of LoL are more concerned about their home pro's then watching the best of the best. I'd like to see numbers of foreign viewers for SC2 compared to LoL, and see if companies like Olympus, like Nikon, like Pioneer, would be better sponsoring SC2 for international markets instead of LoL.
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@TDL: well conventionally, paying customers won't complain about things being too cheap. As conscientious consumers whose knowledge goes beyond just that of purchasing power, we might protest a price being too low. Otherwise, however, people will tend to be more willing to buy something when it's cheap than when it's more expensive... I mean, first-year economics demand curves are essentially downsloping with price on the y-axis and quantity demanded on the x-axis, because one can more or less generalize about this type of consumer behavior. Very rarely will someone refuse to buy anything because it's too cheap.
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They're playing SC2. There is no prestige.
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On December 27 2012 16:04 OptimusYale wrote:
I still think that foreign companies should be looking at sponsoring Korean teams/leagues as that is the highest prestige of progaming, and their names would be associated with the prestige of the tournament.
Agreed! There should be more foreign companies who sponsor Korean teams! Although they aren't exposed to the largest events in the foreign world, that association should be enough of a return for major companies to be satisfied. StarCraft II leagues and teams are very prestigious to companies like Microsoft. Maybe not Apple, they're a pretty big company. But Microsoft already plays in Day [9]'s Afterhours league, that means they are very much StarCraft fans and should support those big teams!
On December 27 2012 16:08 Aerisky wrote:
@TDL: well conventionally, paying customers won't complain about things being too cheap. As conscientious consumers whose knowledge goes beyond just that of purchasing power, we might protest a price being too low. Otherwise, however, people will tend to be more willing to buy something when it's cheap than when it's more expensive... I mean, first-year economics demand curves are essentially downsloping with price on the y-axis and quantity demanded on the x-axis, because one can more or less generalize about this type of consumer behavior. Very rarely will someone refuse to buy anything because it's too cheap.
Whenever I compare products, I always buy the more expensive. As a 23-year old experienced and veteran grocery store consumer, the more expensive apply by the pound or the more recognized brand with the highest pricetag means it is also the highest quality.
If we compare GSL to KeSPA, I think we can clearly see GSL is simply better in terms of branding as well as pricetag.
On December 27 2012 16:21 ShadeR wrote:
They're playing SC2. There is no prestige.
Obviously with the price of 5$, cheaper than a movie :/
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Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it, and my opinion isn't exactly qualified or anything, but I'm still of the opinion that jacking up prices won't give it significant artificial prestige.You might say that now, but at least as far as I can see, if they scaled up the price to match or exceed MLG's prices, people would be calling kespa greedy and generally trashing the pricetag as ridiculous. Just my 2 cents.
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On December 27 2012 16:51 Aerisky wrote:
Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it, and my opinion isn't exactly qualified or anything, but I'm still of the opinion that jacking up prices won't give it significant artificial prestige.You might say that now, but at least as far as I can see, if they scaled up the price to match or exceed MLG's prices, people would be calling kespa greedy and generally trashing the pricetag as ridiculous. Just my 2 cents.
I think they'd see how irrelevant MLG is and only buy KeSPA. This will cause MLG to further chase after Korean players to further their own brand and level of matches and increase interest as well as Korean exposure for sponsors.
The foreign scene may die, but that's because they don't have the same work ethic as Koreans, it's their fault.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Interesting writeup, $5 is definitely cheap for 8 months worth of stuff lol.
On December 27 2012 10:05 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 10:02 KalWarkov wrote:
most ppl that payed the 5 bucks for it all wouldve also payed 10 easily. i dont know how they came up with those 5 bucks I pay 10 for other stuff, I would have paid 20 for those stuff too. I'm guessing multiples of 5 or 10-digit prices are strong persuaders for purchases.
I believe its called end digit bias where people are more likely to use multiples of 5s
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I might be wrong but isn´t the prize for proleague 5bucks per month ?
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Microsoft Word says wong is a word, so it must be the word I am looking for. Also, if I wanted to learn Korean during a broadcast from some white guys, I would pay Rekrul in wong to teach me.
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On December 27 2012 16:00 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 15:52 Aerisky wrote:
Yeah I think it's really hard to say. There's the idea of making it so cheap that anyone will want to buy in (e.g. this is how SK's music industry is, with a long-term music subscription fee that's ridiculously cheap so that there's little piracy), but when there aren't that many adopters and it's just so cheap, it's hard to do great things with such little capital :X I agree, I dunno how KeSPA survived so long with Brood War without the foreigner-base to really sustain their business. BW was pirated a lot by foreigners. Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 15:54 TheEmulator wrote:I think it is a little cheap. But I won't complain, haha You should, it's the right thing to do as paying customers.
Because broadcast is traditionally "free" (cable TV), and financial support does not depend mainly on tournament prizes nor viewer subscriptions. KeSPA can sell Proleague for cheap because their core market is still Korea. The $5 subscription is a nice but not essential extra income, and the low price allows to reach more potential viewers (let's face it, kids on the internet are CHEAP).
The KeSPA scene developed very different and has a very different economic model. By measuring the KeSPA scene using GSL metrics, you are essentially comparing apples to oranges.
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United States33163 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
I used Microsoft Word to correct all spelling mistakes. There are no mistakes in either logic or spelling.
wait your save for being stupid is to be even more stupid?
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I agree with VManOfMana
The way KeSPA works is that it operates Proleague in Korea at a loss as an advertizing machine for its member companies.
The reason why it costs anything at all to us in the rest of the world is that the advertizing to us isn't a complete slam dunk to them. If a korean sees STX, Woongjin, etc then that can affect his consuming habits. If we foreigners see proleague we might see Samsung and buy a TV or a galaxy phone later, at best which is only one of their member companies.
So that's subscription model vs advertizing model.
Why is the cost $5? That could turn out to be an introductory price. It's not free so we get used to paying for the service and cheap enough to get a LOT of people interested, tuning in to proleague and not GOMTV.
I think what KeSPA and spoTV want above all is an advertizing model so the subscription is free. If they can show the global audience tunes in, love the content a whole bunch and watch for hours on end... then a global sponsor will no doubt become interested, buy advertizing and lets that money subsidize the costs of the english broadcast.
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KeSPA is awesome!
Only 5$!
It was free in back bw days!
and this is good more people will watch it!
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konadora
Singapore66131 Posts
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i thought the small text was some kind of wierd scribbling at first
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Well, this is either a very elaborate troll or Torte has gone mental.
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Throwing more money at a business has never, ever ensured that you will get any kind of better content. They are a business, not a charity. If they thought they could raise the price $5 and not change a damn thing based on the interest in their product and what competitors are charging, they absolutely would. The only time they would invest in the product (in this instance, large prize pools or better casters) would be if they thought it would improve the bottom line. People don't tune in to watch casters. And if growing the prize pool doesn't attract better players which allows them to charge more, it won't happen.
Also, paying the casters more isn't going to suddenly make them suck less. I don't how you even came to that conclusion.
Ditto for the players as well. Leagues and tournaments don't exist in a vacuum. If you suck in one, you devalue yourself as a player. You either won't be invited or might not qualify for other tournaments. Teams pay more for a player with good results. A player with good results is also more marketable to advertisers. Players have every reason to try their hardest in every competition, and that goes the same for casters.
Similarly as a caster, if you give a shitty performance in one tournament, companies aren't going to be busting down your door to cast their event.
On December 27 2012 21:30 Fyodor wrote:
I agree with VManOfMana
The way KeSPA works is that it operates Proleague in Korea at a loss as an advertizing machine for its member companies.
The reason why it costs anything at all to us in the rest of the world is that the advertizing to us isn't a complete slam dunk to them. If a korean sees STX, Woongjin, etc then that can affect his consuming habits. If we foreigners see proleague we might see Samsung and buy a TV or a galaxy phone later, at best which is only one of their member companies.
So that's subscription model vs advertizing model.
Why is the cost $5? That could turn out to be an introductory price. It's not free so we get used to paying for the service and cheap enough to get a LOT of people interested, tuning in to proleague and not GOMTV.
I think what KeSPA and spoTV want above all is an advertizing model so the subscription is free. If they can show the global audience tunes in, love the content a whole bunch and watch for hours on end... then a global sponsor will no doubt become interested, buy advertizing and lets that money subsidize the costs of the english broadcast.
this is a good post
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On December 27 2012 20:50 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 09:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
I used Microsoft Word to correct all spelling mistakes. There are no mistakes in either logic or spelling. wait your save for being stupid is to be even more stupid?
I heavy rely on computers to compensate for any intelligence.
On December 27 2012 18:08 BigFan wrote:Interesting writeup, $5 is definitely cheap for 8 months worth of stuff lol. Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 10:05 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 10:02 KalWarkov wrote:
most ppl that payed the 5 bucks for it all wouldve also payed 10 easily. i dont know how they came up with those 5 bucks I pay 10 for other stuff, I would have paid 20 for those stuff too. I'm guessing multiples of 5 or 10-digit prices are strong persuaders for purchases. I believe its called end digit bias where people are more likely to use multiples of 5s
TIL!
On December 27 2012 18:08 NotoriousBig wrote:
I might be wrong but isn´t the prize for proleague 5bucks per month ?
No, you're thinking of MLG 2010 first prize.
On December 27 2012 18:47 deathgod6 wrote:
Microsoft Word says wong is a word, so it must be the word I am looking for. Also, if I wanted to learn Korean during a broadcast from some white guys, I would pay Rekrul in wong to teach me.
Rekrul is very literate in South Korean, but some netizens have the North Korean dialect.
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On December 27 2012 20:42 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 16:00 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 15:52 Aerisky wrote:
Yeah I think it's really hard to say. There's the idea of making it so cheap that anyone will want to buy in (e.g. this is how SK's music industry is, with a long-term music subscription fee that's ridiculously cheap so that there's little piracy), but when there aren't that many adopters and it's just so cheap, it's hard to do great things with such little capital :X I agree, I dunno how KeSPA survived so long with Brood War without the foreigner-base to really sustain their business. BW was pirated a lot by foreigners. On December 27 2012 15:54 TheEmulator wrote:I think it is a little cheap. But I won't complain, haha You should, it's the right thing to do as paying customers. Because broadcast is traditionally "free" (cable TV), and financial support does not depend mainly on tournament prizes nor viewer subscriptions. KeSPA can sell Proleague for cheap because their core market is still Korea. The $5 subscription is a nice but not essential extra income, and the low price allows to reach more potential viewers (let's face it, kids on the internet are CHEAP).
The KeSPA scene developed very different and has a very different economic model. By measuring the KeSPA scene using GSL metrics, you are essentially comparing apples to oranges.
On December 28 2012 00:09 Aldehyde wrote:
Well, this is either a very elaborate troll or Torte has gone mental.
+ Show Spoiler +
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What's the exchange rate on Wongs anyway? Do two wongs still make a wight?
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On December 28 2012 02:42 pigmanbear wrote:
What's the exchange rate on Wongs anyway? Do two wongs still make a wight?
Wright you mean
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On December 28 2012 02:56 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 02:42 pigmanbear wrote:
What's the exchange rate on Wongs anyway? Do two wongs still make a wight? Wright you mean
Not quite. In both words I replace the "r" sound with a "w" sound; that's the joke.
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On December 28 2012 03:53 pigmanbear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 02:56 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 28 2012 02:42 pigmanbear wrote:
What's the exchange rate on Wongs anyway? Do two wongs still make a wight? Wright you mean Not quite. In both words I replace the "r" sound with a "w" sound; that's the joke.
This is a serious topic about whether people are willing to put in more money to salvage a company's prestige.
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No, we don't need to pay more. Nothing is too cheap. If anything, this will encourage competition, and force GOM(/Kespa) to drop(/raise) their prices.
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On December 28 2012 04:14 Bunn wrote:
No, we don't need to pay more. Nothing is too cheap. If anything, this will encourage competition, and force GOM(/Kespa) to drop(/raise) their prices.
There is no competition. GOM is better.
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On December 28 2012 04:29 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 04:14 Bunn wrote:
No, we don't need to pay more. Nothing is too cheap. If anything, this will encourage competition, and force GOM(/Kespa) to drop(/raise) their prices. There is no competition. GOM is better.
GOM's production is better, but I personally couldn't afford to pay what they ask me. I see $5 for 7 months a better offer than $19.99 for a single season.
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On December 27 2012 09:51 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 09:48 fabiorlopes wrote:
It's really cheap, 5 bucks for 8 months almost seems like a lie.
They should charge more, maybe 5 per month? and have better casters/production.
Even being cheap, i didn't buy it yet, cause I dont think the production is worth my money, hehehe... I didn't buy it yet. I'm saving for the GSL, they're better because all the foreign teams pick up only GSL players.
Technically, foreign teams can only pick up ESF and T8 players because KeSPA wants to trim the expenses of running the team. I have no problem with the lower cost. Nothing wrong with healthy competition and the low fee makes it far more bearable than spending money on PPVs for a four day event. Nothing wrong with trying to bring down cost and there are some casters out there who are making a ridiculous amount of money.
I'm all for competition. It's multifaceted.
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One couls make a superior argument that by making proleague and other tournaments free to watch the vods, then that will attract a larger consumer base in which advertising will prevail. (Think how google works)
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This blog post wasn't serious at all. I was hoping more would catch on, but it doesn't look like it lol.
Back to the drawing/writing board.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
don't worry torte i understood your awkward humor
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lol I like how you ended it.
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actually i cant actually understand how the PL "long" vods on twitch start with the match 0-1 sometimes and you have to search the first match in a separate VOD.
its hell to navigate there , so much vods with crazy naming (actually the intro vod has the same name as a "long" vod) , you get spoiled of all the results while you search for the vod you want...but thats still not as bad as not understanding why the f*** a 7 hours long video has all the matches of the day besides the first one.
Madness.
PL is cool but the twitch VODs should be handled better , or actually make a damn website portal (not twitch) with links to the matches so you can have some sense of order.
its seems that for 5$ you cant expect them to care about you as a customer , so I think I'm still paying too much for the nonexistant service im experiencing.
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On December 28 2012 22:41 Meatloaf wrote:
PL is cool but the twitch VODs should be handled better , or actually make a damn website portal (not twitch) with links to the matches so you can have some sense of order.
Liquipedia has VOD links under each match (just click on show), I've been updating them last week as soon as they were available. Or you can check /r/spoilerfreesc for other sites which have links spoiler free.
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Wait....this was supposed to be a joke? :|
Not gonna lie, I did think it was sort of awkward when you responded to one of my comments with something along the lines of "people will realize MLG is a low-tier tourney after kespa charges more", but I didn't know the whole premise was a joke @__@ I thought all of the jokes in the blog post were tossed in to accompany your points lol. Didn't know the entire thing was a joke .__.
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Well my rule of thumb is to mean everything I say on the internet.
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On December 29 2012 00:24 jnd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 22:41 Meatloaf wrote:
PL is cool but the twitch VODs should be handled better , or actually make a damn website portal (not twitch) with links to the matches so you can have some sense of order.
Liquipedia has VOD links under each match (just click on show), I've been updating them last week as soon as they were available. Or you can check /r/spoilerfreesc for other sites which have links spoiler free.
thanks , didnt check liquipedia for this , its great.
The thing is when i want to watch the match on my TV i hook my laptop and plug the long video (like 7hours usually) and starts 0-1 ... LOL
they definitely have to do something about it , if theyre gonna profit from foreign audience put something better than the effortless placeholder we have now or let Liquid-EG set up the thing and make profit of it themselves.
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On December 29 2012 00:24 jnd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 22:41 Meatloaf wrote:
PL is cool but the twitch VODs should be handled better , or actually make a damn website portal (not twitch) with links to the matches so you can have some sense of order.
Liquipedia has VOD links under each match (just click on show), I've been updating them last week as soon as they were available. Or you can check /r/spoilerfreesc for other sites which have links spoiler free.
Thanks for the link to the spoiler free vods Its driving me crazy to watch directly through twitch tv cause i know the outcome when i have watched the 2-3 first games because i can see the total amount of games available :/
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EPT
