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But not skill. The two things are different. Meteorskunk wrote a blog about this already, but replies get ignored constantly in threads and blogs, so I'm going to make another blog that settles this.
Talent exists and people are born with it. But talent isn't skill. Talents are the conditions under which you must perform to achieve a certain goal. This can range from genetics to environment - doesn't really matter. All that really matters is that talent does exist, but it's not skill. It's a tool that needs skill to make it worth something.
Skill is how you use your talents, or how well you perform a certain task given the conditions. If you have great skill in Starcraft, chances are that you have used your talents to develop the mindset needed FOR YOU to succeed. Notice that i used "FOR YOU." If you are not born Korean, or in an asian culture (which are generally WAY more strict than American culture(s)), that doesn't mean you can't be the best at SC2. It just means you may have some things working against you that Koreans don't.
Basically, what people perceive to be talent is really just effort more than anything. Yes, they were born in an environment or with the genetics to become who they are, but they still had to put forth effort and work their own challenges to get were they were. Anyone who is really good at what they do will never say they got there because it was easy. They'll say they got there because they had the passion and the will power, and practiced their ass off to get there. It wasn't always easy for them, but they make it look easy because they've done it SO MANY DAMN TIMES.
If you're not learning something as quick as someone else, look at why they're learning so fast. Is it because they're just natural at what they do, or is it because of another base set of fundamental skills they developed because environment or genetics? Then look at yourself, and find out why you don't have those fundamental skills, and find your talents to fix them.
  
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You make good sense. This is very insightful and helps me out a lot. thanks But it makes me realize that talking about these kind of things is not clear at all.
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On November 30 2012 05:16 meteorskunk wrote:
You make good sense. This is very insightful and helps me out a lot. thanks But it makes me realize that talking about these kind of things is not clear at all.
It really isn't but a big part of that is definition. A lot of people assume "talent" means "skills you're born with" but it's not. Being born with long legs is not a skill - running USING your long legs you were born with is a skill.
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My definition of talent is "a unique combination of traits that allows someone to learn a skill in an outstanding manner"
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I think a better way to say this is gifted(not talent). Take blacks for example they are extremely gifted in the physical aspect, Look at all the basketball players, football players and especially track and field where blacks dominate in the 100m sprint. Skill is something you can build upon repetition and learning. However, without the genetic gift, you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter how hard you train or how much steroids you take. I remember the famous USA track and field coach John Smith said, "you can't make donkeys win Kentucky derby", that is a very fine statement spelling the truth between skills and gifted. Of course, if the person is gifted and doesn't work hard, he won't achieve success.
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United States2829 Posts
I think talent is very limited and overrated, in the sense in which you've defined talent here.
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On November 30 2012 05:47 Franthier wrote:
I think a better way to say this is gifted(not talent). Take blacks for example they are extremely gifted in the physical aspect, Look at all the basketball players, football players and especially track and field where blacks dominate in the 100m sprint. Skill is something you can build upon repetition and learning. However, without the genetic gift, you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter how hard you train or how much steroids you take. I remember the famous USA track and field coach John Smith said, "you can't make donkeys win Kentucky derby", that is a very fine statement spelling the truth between skills and gifted. Of course, if the person is gifted and doesn't work hard, he won't achieve success.
Your comment may have real information, but when you said "you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter.." i found it inaccurate. There are many factors that effect a person's body type. It may be true that many of the top athletes in some sports have dark skin but what does that say? One needs the fundamental principle to extrapolate valuable information.
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On November 30 2012 05:57 meteorskunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 05:47 Franthier wrote:
I think a better way to say this is gifted(not talent). Take blacks for example they are extremely gifted in the physical aspect, Look at all the basketball players, football players and especially track and field where blacks dominate in the 100m sprint. Skill is something you can build upon repetition and learning. However, without the genetic gift, you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter how hard you train or how much steroids you take. I remember the famous USA track and field coach John Smith said, "you can't make donkeys win Kentucky derby", that is a very fine statement spelling the truth between skills and gifted. Of course, if the person is gifted and doesn't work hard, he won't achieve success. Your comment may have real information, but when you said "you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter.." i found it inaccurate. There are many factors that effect a person's body type. It may be true that many of the top athletes in some sports have dark skin but what does that say? One needs the fundamental principle to extrapolate valuable information.
Yep, I agree that I should have phrased it better. Due to the variations in the body shape, muscle fibres, and body structure of the blacks they are able to run faster.
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"you can't make donkeys win Kentucky derby" doesn't apply to every skill, although it is certainly true.
No matter how hard a short person reaches for the sky every day, they won't be tall with just effort. However, that's because their height is limited by physical reality. Conceptual skills, which do not actually exist in the physical sense, may not be so limited. A minuscule physical change in a person's brain can mean the difference between dripping drool while starring at a complex mathematical problem or having the ability to solve it effortlessly.
I wonder if a monkey could get to masters if there were no communication barrier while trying to teach them.
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I agree completely, talent is worth nothing without effort and devotions.
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I think of talent as being a lot more than effort. Maybe that makes me pessimistic, and perhaps it's also why I didn't get past diamond. It seems like common sense to me, however, that at the highest level of play, luck and effort are going to be maximized just by the amount of people trying to get to the top. Natural talent is what remains to set players apart as superior or inferior.
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On November 30 2012 07:26 32 wrote:
I think of talent as being a lot more than effort. Maybe that makes me pessimistic, and perhaps it's also why I didn't get past diamond. It seems like common sense to me, however, that at the highest level of play, luck and effort are going to be maximized just by the amount of people trying to get to the top. Natural talent is what remains to set players apart as superior or inferior.
Yeah, I agree. Given that everybody studies, trains and eats the same or what not, the ultimate deciding factor comes down to talent/genetics. As much as I want to believe everybody is the same and equal, unfortunately, it ain't. This is life, people just need to learn to accept it, but don't give up before you even started, always try everything and give your best shot, in the end you would know you have left everything out there and there is no more regret.
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On November 30 2012 05:57 meteorskunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 05:47 Franthier wrote:
I think a better way to say this is gifted(not talent). Take blacks for example they are extremely gifted in the physical aspect, Look at all the basketball players, football players and especially track and field where blacks dominate in the 100m sprint. Skill is something you can build upon repetition and learning. However, without the genetic gift, you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter how hard you train or how much steroids you take. I remember the famous USA track and field coach John Smith said, "you can't make donkeys win Kentucky derby", that is a very fine statement spelling the truth between skills and gifted. Of course, if the person is gifted and doesn't work hard, he won't achieve success. Your comment may have real information, but when you said "you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter.." i found it inaccurate. There are many factors that effect a person's body type. It may be true that many of the top athletes in some sports have dark skin but what does that say? One needs the fundamental principle to extrapolate valuable information.
Well actually, although it's not directly related to skin color, but it is a scientific fact that black people tend to have a lot of advantageous physical aspects passed through their genes. At the highest level, genetics matter more than effort because when you train to the maximum that your body allows, then you're eventually going to reach the peak limits of your body.
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On November 30 2012 11:58 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 05:57 meteorskunk wrote:On November 30 2012 05:47 Franthier wrote:
I think a better way to say this is gifted(not talent). Take blacks for example they are extremely gifted in the physical aspect, Look at all the basketball players, football players and especially track and field where blacks dominate in the 100m sprint. Skill is something you can build upon repetition and learning. However, without the genetic gift, you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter how hard you train or how much steroids you take. I remember the famous USA track and field coach John Smith said, "you can't make donkeys win Kentucky derby", that is a very fine statement spelling the truth between skills and gifted. Of course, if the person is gifted and doesn't work hard, he won't achieve success. Your comment may have real information, but when you said "you ain't gonna run faster than blacks no matter.." i found it inaccurate. There are many factors that effect a person's body type. It may be true that many of the top athletes in some sports have dark skin but what does that say? One needs the fundamental principle to extrapolate valuable information. Well actually, although it's not directly related to skin color, but it is a scientific fact that black people tend to have a lot of advantageous physical aspects passed through their genes. At the highest level, genetics matter more than effort because when you train to the maximum that your body allows, then you're eventually going to reach the peak limits of your body.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
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United Kingdom1292 Posts
On November 30 2012 07:06 G_G wrote:
"you can't make donkeys win Kentucky derby" doesn't apply to every skill, although it is certainly true.
No matter how hard a short person reaches for the sky every day, they won't be tall with just effort. However, that's because their height is limited by physical reality. Conceptual skills, which do not actually exist in the physical sense, may not be so limited. A minuscule physical change in a person's brain can mean the difference between dripping drool while starring at a complex mathematical problem or having the ability to solve it effortlessly.
I wonder if a monkey could get to masters if there were no communication barrier while trying to teach them.
You got to remember why there's a communication barrier between humans and monkeys in the first place! Chimps can't learn human languages even if they grow up around us because I assume they have less cognitive ability than humans.
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EPT
