• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:35
CEST 07:35
KST 14:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"2ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!26Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)90
StarCraft 2
General
How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format What's the best tug of war? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
Star Con San Diego 2026 BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs Fighting Spirit mining rates Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Diablo IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread 2026-27 Football Thread placeholder TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Games can Help with Majo…
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11811 users

AI/UI design, freedom of movement, BL/infestor

Blogs > Thienan567
Post a Reply
Thienan567
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States670 Posts
November 21 2012 06:45 GMT
#1
Hello. I am a fan of starcraft. Played BW when I was a kid, dia zerg in SC2 ladder, watch tourneys all day erry day, love TL, blah blah blah you've heard the story before.

However, I made this blog because I've been thinking about blizzard's overall game design, which no one ever seems to talk about when actually talking about the game. It's always:

"FF SUCKS REMOVE IT FROM GAME"
"BROODLORD INFESTOR OP NERF ZERG"
"TERRAN IS TOO HARD"
"UNIT DESIGN SUCKS NO MICRO ANTI FUN"
"FUCK BLIZZ MY COFFEE IS GETTING COLD" etc.etc.

Game design? Unit design?
I was mostly spurred on by this thread, where Morrow posts his thoughts on why FF is bullshit and how PvZ is fucking broken and boring and bland and bleeh etc.

And that thread, and this one, and this one, all talk about unit design and how they all suck.

And many more talk about game design, and how this design of the game blows, how that is unintuitive, why didn't blizz do this or that, etc.

Hell, just make a search and you'll see SO MANY THREADS all talking about basically the same thing.

However, I find that both are influenced by a much, much deeper part of the game, and in fact is central to SC2, from the good to the bad to the 'WHY IS THIS UNFIXED BLIZZ': AI and UI design.

SC2 has basically the best AI and UI design I've ever seen in an RTS game. The movements of almost every single unit in the game is fluid. It's instant (in offline anyway). Turn rate is instant. Just look at all the videos on youtube or whatever that are all about SSSSSIIICCKK MICRO.

All of this is possible through SC2's incredibly fluid AI/UI design. Lings fully surround. Units clump or spread (mostly) depending on how you want them. Smartcast. Smartfire. You can even cancel certain spells mid-animation (250mm cannon, zealot charge), though this concept isn't new to RTS. It is new to SC, however. All this fluidity and flexibility is one thing that I really have to commend blizz on being able to pull off. It is, quite simply, awesome. And more importantly, it leads to what I call in SC2 as 'freedom of movement'.

Freedom of movement
What do I mean by freedom of movement? I mean the instant turn rates, the sick marine micro, ling auto surround, instantaneous pickups from drops, fluid attack animations, worker mineral floating, lack of bumps or blocking by friendly units. It's what makes the fights tick. As a lot of tosses can attest to, having the ability to cancel zealot charge can be and often is a lifesaver, because you're not always in a good position and being unable to cancel charge will probably leave you in either a) a disadvantage, or b) no zealots to tank damage in a later fight. A stimmed marine follows every single mouse click with insane precision. Casting animations on most spells are near instant. Compare ling movemment in BW to SC2. A move lings in BW will go in a conga line, asking to be shredded by marine or goon fire. Lings in sc2 actually move in packs, and their turn rate is insane. This is to be expected in game like SC2 from a developer of blizz's caliber.

This, I think, is a key part of SC2's appeal: fluidity, flexibility, freedom. Essentially, in BW the better player was the one who had better positioning (and occasionally godlike micro). In SC2 the better player is the one who has the better engagements and micro. And that's why things that go against this freedom of movement is when problems start to arise.

Problems, like, say, FF, Fungal, and dare I say, vortex and Marauder slow.

All these things have one thing in common: they restrict movement and flexibility. In a game where a key element is this freedom of movement, elements like FF are, well, a problem. It's like making a martial art based on body movement, but then you put the practitioners in full knight armor. Many people say that FF or fungal is bad because you can't fight against it. Well, we have PDD, Graviton beam, and some other spells, what's the big deal? PDD and graviton don't restrict nearly enough as FF/fungal. Spells like ensnare weren't a problem in BW because they didn't restrict, but decreased fluidity.

Spells like say, Corruption, PDD, Guardian Shield, Psi Storm, IT are examples of good spells in my book. Why? Because they don't restrict movement, they influence battles in other ways. Getting Stormed? Move out of the way. Guardian Shield? Focus the sentry. Mass IT? Just kill them all (hopefully before they spawn). In all cases, the player makes a move that the other player can react to, which is paramount to a strategy game (or any game for that matter, or it wouldn't be a good game, would it?)

I think by now you get the point: In SC2 everything is about movement, and to challenge that is to challenge A LOT of the game.

AI/UI design too good?
With all this freedom, one must consider the possibility that there is too much, and too much of anything is a bad thing. Just ask binge eaters/drinkers.

Consider the siege tank. In BW they had a whopping 70 damage in siege mode. In SC2 it's 35. Considerably pathetic. Except this isn't so because of smart fire. Imagine 70 damage spread out over an entire enemy marine army. The army would just plain get obliterated. Now, the argument of smartfire vs overkill I'll leave for another day, but suffice to say that the siege tank is one of many units radically affected by the AI.

But the real main point I want to get at is BL/infestor. Infestors fungal armies, BLs shoot at them, everything dies. I think one of the main problems with fighting (we're not talking about air here) BL/infestor is that your ground army can't make it to the BLs, even after fungal. Why? Broodlings. Broodling surround is as good as ling surround, and for a unit that deals damage AND is free, that's admittedly a bit too much. ITs smartfire/focus fire whatever the hell they want and either way it's loads of damage.

Now, I am aware that the few tried and true ways to fight bl/infestor is in the air, vikings/ravens and mship. However, I think that if the ground army were less restricted by the broodlings, players would stand a better fighting chance against broodlords.

The "fix"?
I don't claim to be a pro or an awesome game designer. I just play games. But, if I may, I think a lesson from blizz's other games can be of service here. Namely, to nerf a unit by changing the way it works AI wise, rather than numbers or the entire unit design. I think the Broodlord as a design is awesome. The broodLING, however, I think needs some tweaking. How to tweak it?

Remember the Reaver? For those who don't know, when SC first came out, the reaver was ridiculously strong due to having a huge attack damage and being smart(ish. For 1998). So, to balance it, blizz dumbed the unit down and made it so some shots could be duds. Blizz could rework broodling AI to be a little dumber to 'balance' it out.

Or from WC3, and dota by extension. Animations are an integral part of dota, so much so that turn rates, cast times, autoattack times, etc are used by icefrog to balance the game. Why not do that with broodlings? Give it a slower animation, whether it be turn rate, surround rate, movement animation, whatever.

In the end, I don't actually know if any of this will actually make SC2 a better game. But I do hope that this is a refresher to all the unit design discussions all over TL.

Thanks for reading.

(so tired right now, headache pouding, somethings may sound stupid, misspells. please excuse)

*
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 25m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 304
RuFF_SC2 203
Nina 77
FoxeR 49
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1227
Leta 164
yabsab 13
firebathero 0
League of Legends
JimRising 789
Counter-Strike
summit1g10001
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox583
Other Games
WinterStarcraft696
ROOTCatZ234
Nathanias59
amsayoshi31
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1082
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH264
• davetesta24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2110
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 25m
Clem vs ByuN
Rogue vs Lambo
OSC
6h 25m
Online Event
9h 25m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 5h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
Cure vs herO
ByuN vs Rogue
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Patches Events
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.