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On November 21 2012 18:18 Boblion wrote:
I ask you what you think about the flaws of the game and you make a mini essay about profitability and how the game isn't noob friendly. Wtf who cares ? You gonna make movie reviews according to box office numbers too ?
that's because the flaws of dota aren't in terms of the game itself, but in the experience you have playing the game.
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I played World in Conflict ( which is highly comparable to Dotalikes) and C&C: Renegade at the highest levels, both games that feature more complexity in terms of teamplay while also retaining more depth at the individual level and I can therefore say with confidence that dotaclones suck noodles. Cheers.
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On November 21 2012 20:51 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 18:18 Boblion wrote:
I ask you what you think about the flaws of the game and you make a mini essay about profitability and how the game isn't noob friendly. Wtf who cares ? You gonna make movie reviews according to box office numbers too ? that's because the flaws of dota aren't in terms of the game itself, but in the experience you have playing the game.
So DotA's gameplay is flawless?
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On November 21 2012 23:44 Surth wrote:
I played World in Conflict ( which is highly comparable to Dotalikes) and C&C: Renegade at the highest levels, both games that feature more complexity in terms of teamplay while also retaining more depth at the individual level and I can therefore say with confidence that dotaclones suck noodles. Cheers.
Most readable post I've seen in this Blog so far.
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On November 21 2012 23:44 Surth wrote:
I played World in Conflict ( which is highly comparable to Dotalikes) and C&C: Renegade at the highest levels, both games that feature more complexity in terms of teamplay while also retaining more depth at the individual level and I can therefore say with confidence that dotaclones suck noodles. Cheers.
I ... I think I love you, man.
Also, C&C Renegade was a fucking masterpiece.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina114 Posts
I have to agree with Mr. Lowell on this one - DotA genre is not 'e-sports' worthy, 'e-sports' is a bullshit marketing phrase, and the games from DotA genre are incredibly simplified, even though to the untrained eye it doesn't seem like it because of their similarity to the RTS games.
Kupon3ss, you have made a fool out of yourself in just about every possible way in this thread, even stooping so low as to say that he is an "uninformed flamebaiting troll who is attention-whoring". At that point, you really lost all credibility and everything you said after that was insignificant.
Also, the French Archon steamrolled everyone in this thread.
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United States47024 Posts
There's been a lot of tangential argument on this thread that seems to have gone way off course from what Mr. Lowell here seems to posit as his primary argument. In an effort to try and curtail this, I'm going to try and address points post-by-post, and hopefully have a more granular back-and-forth rather than trying to argue 10+ disparate points of his article all at once.
On November 19 2012 19:10 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Basically, I now think that the e-Sports marketing model has become detrimental to the actual quality of the games and has become completely antithetical to its original purpose, which was to provide lasting enjoyment of various excellent games as they held to scrutiny over the course of years. Professional video game tournaments are evolving into a form of stealth marketing, which I don't think would be an awful thing if these tournaments and the results of these tournaments turned their player bases into raving lunatics, which subsequently prevents their designers from exhibiting any degree of patience in tweaking their games. At this point, unless you're part of a small percentage of players that can actually make some good money doing this, I completely fail to see the purpose of playing these "e-Sports" (DotA 2, StarCraft II, League of Legends) when there are so many better similar titles out there. I don't expect everyone to agree with that, but that's what discussion is for.
From what I gather, your argument is that "E-sports" as a concept has been more or less used by developers as a means to create undue hype and media attention to a game, giving it undue popularity and creating an artificial longevity out of a playerbase that has no real interest in the gameplay (which is likely to be shallower than that of games that can stand on their own two feet) but rather in the mass media hype surrounding the "professional" game. If this is an inaccurate assessment of your point, please correct me before we continue with further discourse.
What you fail to reconcile is that DotA was more or less a "successful game" long before E-sports entered the picture. Icefrog was posting figures of a playerbase 10 million players strong outside of China and a similar figure within China before TI2, or "official" DotA tournaments ever existed. DotA was doing this before Valve entered the picture, before SC2 was released, before Riot ever had any E-sports aspirations. It was essentially an indie game--a one man show (though that "one man" was different at different points in time). You simply cannot expect that "E-sports" is being used to prop up DotA 2 as a game and that it would not stand on its own merits, because DotA has already PROVEN that it stands on its own without such things.
(I am aware that I have not distinguished between a "popular game" and a "good game" in adequate manner here and I have a feeling you're going to present an argument related to the distinction between the two--as I have used such arguments in the past. Unfortunately, I'm not currently at a time or place where I can adequately address this right now and it will probably have to wait for your, or someone else's response)
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United States199 Posts
I am not for or against anyone
The author merely expressed his OWN opinions on this matter of e-sports.
He even said himself that his article is biased.
No need to call shit on him or anything.
Just stick to your own opinions and views and don't let other people's affect that.
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On December 07 2012 09:21 GG_DotA2 wrote:
I am not for or against anyone
The author merely expressed his OWN opinions on this matter of e-sports.
He even said himself that his article is biased.
No need to call shit on him or anything.
Just stick to your own opinions and views and don't let other people's affect that.
Do you know what public discourse is?
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On December 07 2012 09:21 GG_DotA2 wrote:
I am not for or against anyone
The author merely expressed his OWN opinions on this matter of e-sports.
He even said himself that his article is biased.
No need to call shit on him or anything.
Just stick to your own opinions and views and don't let other people's affect that.
Saying something is your opinion doesn't make you immune to criticism, that's the shitty cowardly way out.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
