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Okay so here is my problem. When I first start playing Sc2, I could watch replays and vods and learn from them. I could remember build orders, how to react to certain builds, timings, etc... Now its almost as if I have a short term memory loss disorder and it is SERIOUSLY hindering my growth in Sc2. I havent been able to complete a build order for about a year now. I have literally (LITERALLY) been playing completely random with my builds which is probably why I have gotten to where I am now (aside from my mechanics (masters now)).
I try to practice with my friends but its almost like im not really practicing anything and im more/less just living on mechanics with NO strategy whatsoever. Ill give you an example:
My zerg friend goes for Muta-Ling-Baneling
I go for straight marines
We are playing on Entombed Valley
I scan and see him at the xel'naga tower with his almost maxed army
I leave my base with my 1-1 (possibly 2-2 if its after 13 minutes) marines and 8-10 medivacs
We fight in Middle
I win (marines vs MLB) with pure micro while still macroing at home (less than 400 mins and 400 gas at all times)
This is what I mean. I only win if I can micro. Its the same result vs Protoss who go for pure High Templar rather than a combo of HTs and collosus (for aoe of course, not literally a pure HT army) and I go MMM. I feel that if I can figure out what my problem is and why my brain refuses to remember anything, I can be very successful as an SC2 progamer. I have the same problem IRL as well. My mom will tell me to wash the dishes, I say okay, 4-6 hours later im being yelled at because I completely forgot to wash the dishes. As far as ANY build orders are concerned, most of the only things I can remember are basic openings. EX:
Flash 14cc vs Toss/Zerg (14cc, 14rax, 16rax)
1 Rax expand (12rax, 16 orbital, 16cc OR 12 rax, 16 orbital, 17-18 supply, cc whenever you get 400 mins)
^^ easy shit like that. Its not even that I remember it, I just do it based off of how much money I have. If I had to give you an idea of what EVERY random thing I do is based around, I would say gas. The moment I take a gas is when the randomness starts. Sometimes i'll get early upgrades, sometimes i'll get early tech. I really have no real direction or goals when it comes to playing, I just play. I told my friend that i'm almost playing like a robot that has no emotion (until I lose of course T_T), there is nothing but pure micro and macro. Its almost like an AI. If you watch the zerg AI, they go 1 base lair with every tech and just randomly attack with a random assortment of roaches, lings, and hydras. Thats how I am, except i'm terran and I 1 base VERY rarely.
It has gotten to be such a big problem that I don't even like to ladder anymore because I just simply dont learn anything from my replays. I know when baneling busts hit, I know the timing for a dt's rush, I know when a 4 gate is coming, etc... but I have no build order so if I scout whatever all in is coming a little late, I will lose because I more than likely did something random like double ebays, stim AND combat shield all behind a 14cc.
Any ideas on what I can do? I will post replays if needed.
 
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It's a good thing to not rely on build orders. You've gotten to the point where getting better is improving macro and micro.
Edit: Reread, the problem seems to be early game getting set up. Watch pro's see how much tech\army they can get at a reasonable time, and just know, Okay I can get 2 ebays and 4 rax and no more, or something. Or just watch a pro early game, watch over and over, and write the supply down in notepad. Open custom games and try to copy. Keep doing until you make no more mistakes.
But going with flow is probably better unless your doing some cheese, just know how much of something you can get away with.
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On November 09 2012 05:41 thezanursic wrote:
Do memory exercises?
What type of memory exercises?
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i never knew any buildorder, playing with the flow is awesome.
there are players who need them and others who dont - i doubt thats hindering you.
its more ur mindset i believe?
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On November 09 2012 05:46 KalWarkov wrote:
i never knew any buildorder, playing with the flow is awesome.
there are players who need them and others who dont - i doubt thats hindering you.
its more ur mindset i believe?
This may be my problem. When I ladder, I really don't have fun. I cant force myself to play more than 4-5 games. I just lose interest.
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Actually, I think you might have ADHD. As someone who suffers from an extreme case, I know how it feels. When SC2 was newer and more exciting you could focus on it - people with ADHD can focus on the things that really interest them. But with familiarity you start doing it more and more subconsciously, until the time comes when you feel like you're playing half asleep and not applying your decision-making skills. That is, if you come upon an unfamiliar decision, you might not think it through well, but obviously if you make a particular decision very frequently you can start doing it with minimal thought. This was my big problem on ladder; I had to play random and take long breaks from the game to avoid zoning out while playing. By long breaks, I mean days to weeks.
You should get tested by a psychologist. There's a viable, permanent treatment that does not involve medication.
PS: It took me years to figure out how to not forget to wash the dishes. I just wash them immediately after eating now, so that there's little chance of forgetting.
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On November 09 2012 06:04 Demonhunter04 wrote:
Actually, I think you might have ADHD. As someone who suffers from an extreme case, I know how it feels. When SC2 was newer and more exciting you could focus on it - people with ADHD can focus on the things that really interest them. But with familiarity you start doing it more and more subconsciously, until the time comes when you feel like you're playing half asleep and not applying your decision-making skills. That is, if you come upon an unfamiliar decision, you might not think it through well, but obviously if you make a particular decision very frequently you can start doing it with minimal thought. This was my big problem on ladder; I had to play random and take long breaks from the game to avoid zoning out while playing. By long breaks, I mean days to weeks.
You should get tested by a psychologist. There's a viable, permanent treatment that does not involve medication.
PS: It took me years to figure out how to not forget to wash the dishes. I just wash them immediately after eating now, so that there's little chance of forgetting.
I thought about this about a year ago and completely forgot about it. I cant stay focused on anything long term which is why I haven't gone back to school yet as well. I would hate to blow my chances in school simply because of a lack of focus. I don't have money to go to a psychologist at the moment but hopefully in the near future I will.
That is, if you come upon an unfamiliar decision, you might not think it through well, but obviously if you make a particular decision very frequently you can start doing it with minimal thought. This was my big problem on ladder; I had to play random and take long breaks from the game to avoid zoning out while playing. By long breaks, I mean days to weeks.
thats sounds just like me.
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Sounds like you just have a pretty poor work ethic, and you need to think for yourself more when you play.
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On November 09 2012 06:04 Demonhunter04 wrote:
Actually, I think you might have ADHD. As someone who suffers from an extreme case, I know how it feels. When SC2 was newer and more exciting you could focus on it - people with ADHD can focus on the things that really interest them. But with familiarity you start doing it more and more subconsciously, until the time comes when you feel like you're playing half asleep and not applying your decision-making skills. That is, if you come upon an unfamiliar decision, you might not think it through well, but obviously if you make a particular decision very frequently you can start doing it with minimal thought. This was my big problem on ladder; I had to play random and take long breaks from the game to avoid zoning out while playing. By long breaks, I mean days to weeks.
You should get tested by a psychologist. There's a viable, permanent treatment that does not involve medication.
PS: It took me years to figure out how to not forget to wash the dishes. I just wash them immediately after eating now, so that there's little chance of forgetting.
Wait, so not applying your decision-making skills and zoning out after a few games is abnormal?
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maybe you should get some sleep sounds like fatigue
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On November 09 2012 06:14 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sounds like you just have a pretty poor work ethic, and you need to think for yourself more when you play.
? I worked my ass off to get where I am now, but i've been in the same spot for about 8-9 months now and I would like to take that next step but I just cant focus long enough and im now sure why. That sounds like poor work ethic?
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On November 09 2012 06:16 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 06:04 Demonhunter04 wrote:
Actually, I think you might have ADHD. As someone who suffers from an extreme case, I know how it feels. When SC2 was newer and more exciting you could focus on it - people with ADHD can focus on the things that really interest them. But with familiarity you start doing it more and more subconsciously, until the time comes when you feel like you're playing half asleep and not applying your decision-making skills. That is, if you come upon an unfamiliar decision, you might not think it through well, but obviously if you make a particular decision very frequently you can start doing it with minimal thought. This was my big problem on ladder; I had to play random and take long breaks from the game to avoid zoning out while playing. By long breaks, I mean days to weeks.
You should get tested by a psychologist. There's a viable, permanent treatment that does not involve medication.
PS: It took me years to figure out how to not forget to wash the dishes. I just wash them immediately after eating now, so that there's little chance of forgetting. Wait, so not applying your decision-making skills and zoning out after a few games is abnormal?
Well, I know beyond reasonable doubt that I have ADHD. Is it normal, as the OP said, to repeatedly forget to do regular chores such as the dishes even if you don't want to? That was just an example, I suspect he forgets plenty of other little things too.
Zoning out happens to everyone when they get bored, but it happens much more quickly to people with ADHD and it even happens when they're doing things that are interesting for a while.
EDIT: OP, how long have you had these attention issues? For some, ADHD arises from learned behaviors and information overload (so you might have acquired it), while for others it's mainly neurological and is something they've had as long as they can remember (which is my case). It would be simpler to treat "acquired ADHD", which is technically not classified as ADHD, but whatever.
ADHD can be tested for in many ways which vary in accuracy. Tests like surveys, reviews of medical and academic history, and the "click when you see the dot" minigame each have their own flaws, but will be used early in the diagnostic process. Afterwards, get an EEG done while you're awake. People with ADHD show unusually high theta-wave activity and low beta-wave activity.
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On November 09 2012 06:41 Demonhunter04 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 06:16 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On November 09 2012 06:04 Demonhunter04 wrote:
Actually, I think you might have ADHD. As someone who suffers from an extreme case, I know how it feels. When SC2 was newer and more exciting you could focus on it - people with ADHD can focus on the things that really interest them. But with familiarity you start doing it more and more subconsciously, until the time comes when you feel like you're playing half asleep and not applying your decision-making skills. That is, if you come upon an unfamiliar decision, you might not think it through well, but obviously if you make a particular decision very frequently you can start doing it with minimal thought. This was my big problem on ladder; I had to play random and take long breaks from the game to avoid zoning out while playing. By long breaks, I mean days to weeks.
You should get tested by a psychologist. There's a viable, permanent treatment that does not involve medication.
PS: It took me years to figure out how to not forget to wash the dishes. I just wash them immediately after eating now, so that there's little chance of forgetting. Wait, so not applying your decision-making skills and zoning out after a few games is abnormal? Well, I know beyond reasonable doubt that I have ADHD. Is it normal, as the OP said, to repeatedly forget to do regular chores such as the dishes even if you don't want to? That was just an example, I suspect he forgets plenty of other little things too. Zoning out happens to everyone when they get bored, but it happens much more quickly to people with ADHD and it even happens when they're doing things that are interesting for a while. EDIT: OP, how long have you had these attention issues? For some, ADHD arises from learned behaviors and information overload (so you might have acquired it), while for others it's mainly neurological and is something they've had as long as they can remember (which is my case). It would be simpler to treat "acquired ADHD", which is technically not classified as ADHD, but whatever. ADHD can be tested for in many ways which vary in accuracy. Tests like surveys, reviews of medical and academic history, and the "click when you see the dot" minigame each have their own flaws, but will be used early in the diagnostic process. Afterwards, get an EEG done while you're awake. People with ADHD show unusually high theta-wave activity and low beta-wave activity.
hmm, probably after I started playing terran in plat. I started playing a ton of games a day (30+) so I could learn and get as good as I possibly could. Im not even sure what happened tho that could have made me the way i am now.
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On November 09 2012 06:32 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 06:14 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sounds like you just have a pretty poor work ethic, and you need to think for yourself more when you play. ? I worked my ass off to get where I am now, but i've been in the same spot for about 8-9 months now and I would like to take that next step but I just cant focus long enough and im now sure why. That sounds like poor work ethic?
Yeah it does sound like poor work ethic, it sounds like you worked harder than you're used to and you grew, but you didn't grow anymore because you aren't pushing yourself any farther. Just what it sounds like from my point of view; it's not something to be so defensive about. I'm explaining what it looks like from an outsider's perspective who is reading your blog.
As for mental focus having proper nutrition, exercise and sleep are going to be needed daily. Without these I get headaches and have severe loss of focus. These were always what I struggled with most whenever I'd be practicing a lot or at a lan. I still struggle with these most, even though I focus on school instead of SC2. I'd assume these things are the major contributors to your current state, assuming you're work ethic is where it needs to be.
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On November 09 2012 07:44 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 06:32 LgNKami wrote:On November 09 2012 06:14 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sounds like you just have a pretty poor work ethic, and you need to think for yourself more when you play. ? I worked my ass off to get where I am now, but i've been in the same spot for about 8-9 months now and I would like to take that next step but I just cant focus long enough and im now sure why. That sounds like poor work ethic? Yeah it does sound like poor work ethic, it sounds like you worked harder than you're used to and you grew, but you didn't grow anymore because you aren't pushing yourself any farther. Just what it sounds like from my point of view; it's not something to be so defensive about. I'm explaining what it looks like from an outsider's perspective who is reading your blog. As for mental focus having proper nutrition, exercise and sleep are going to be needed daily. Without these I get headaches and have severe loss of focus. These were always what I struggled with most whenever I'd be practicing a lot or at a lan. I still struggle with these most, even though I focus on school instead of SC2. I'd assume these things are the major contributors to your current state, assuming you're work ethic is where it needs to be.
I understand. I thought you were just trolling at first but now I get what you were saying. After I hit masters and I hit top 8 for the first time, I kinda stopped laddering. Before it was 20-30 games a day but now its sometimes less that 5.
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On November 09 2012 05:49 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 05:46 KalWarkov wrote:
i never knew any buildorder, playing with the flow is awesome.
there are players who need them and others who dont - i doubt thats hindering you.
its more ur mindset i believe?
This may be my problem. When I ladder, I really don't have fun. I cant force myself to play more than 4-5 games. I just lose interest.
Then why are you trying to be a progamer? You just said yourself you don't have fun. I can't make any sense out of this.
Go do something you enjoy.
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On November 09 2012 05:45 LgNKami wrote:What type of memory exercises?
Seppuku, I do it all the time, it's so much fun, especially when you do a hard one, you know, the old way, so many unknown things about yourself come up in the end.
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EPT
