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Recently, there has been a great deal of drama in the SC2 community. Nothing new there, eh? Well, excluding the SlayerS affair, it was perhaps not so much drama as it was a release of long pent-up frustrations with Blizzard, the community, esports, and the game itself. Nothing new there, either. This has happened from time to time, when someone notable in the scene says something negative, many of the people who have been holding their tongues finally unleash their (usually poorly written and unduly vitriolic) forum posts upon the world and the SC2 community engages in a massive bitchfest for a week or so. Though this has been the largest communal purging of negative emotions I've seen from the SC2 community, it would have gone largely unnoticed by myself, as I pay only minimal attention to the SC2 scene at present. However, when idly checking up on the League of Legends subreddit the other day, I came upon this thread, which links to the corresponding thread on the Starcraft subreddit.
From there, I read all the relevant threads (except the SlayerS disbanding one, that was a major tl;dr) and watched the latest SotG and Pro Corner, both of which I recommend if you're in the mood for some cathartic SC2 bashing. Obviously, a lot of other people read those threads and watched those videos and began to think to themselves, "what can we do?" I, too, pondered this question and came up with the simplest answer: We need to stop being so fucking negative. I know I've been guilty of it, too, but It drives away existing players who are tired of hearing the same bullshit over and over, and it deters new players from investigating what, if they had given it a chance, might have ended up being their favorite game.
Now, I know there are nice people, professional and otherwise, who are more than happy to introduce newbies to SC2 and help them on their way. But how many people do you think check a game's fansites before buying it? How many go to that game's subreddit or read news about it? And how many of those people are going to want to put up 60 bucks to pay for a game where all they encounter from their forum scouting is negativity and bile, directed not only inwardly but outwardly as well.
Imagine you are a LoL player who is unfamiliar with SC2. (I use LoL as an example, but it could be from any game. God save the kid that wanders into a PC gaming forum and mentions a console game.) Anyway, you, the clueless LoL player, have heard through the grapevine that SC2 is the greatest esport ever. You know what esports is, cause Riot put a link to that tournament they had one day in the game client, and you clicked on it and watched some of it, and it was pretty cool. So, bored one day, you decide head over to the SC2 subreddit, click on the first link you see that isn't an incomprehensible meme and think to yourself, "Hm, I wonder what's going on here." What do you imagine you would think when you saw that it was just a morass of people bitching not only about their game, but shitting on your game? The game you like playing with your friends and have a great deal of fun with. You'd probably think, "well fuck this, then" and move on.
Now, I'm not saying we should not strive for SC2 to be a better game or for Battle.net to be a better game client. However, when we take out our anger on people who don't even know what the fuck is going on, it is far from helping improve anything. It is, dare I say that awful phrase, hurting esports.
LoL has a lot of the same problems SC2 does, like a shitty game client and no LAN for tournaments (they added it in for the final match of their world championships because some of the previous matches were interrupted midgame by an internet outage), and they have other issues, like the bugs and balance problems that arise from a 2-week patch cycle. And yet, people in the LoL community are genuinely happy, and, if they're not, they just stop playing the game. There's no feeling like they were let down or betrayed by the game's developers, and they never felt like they failed to do their part of some sort of esports "movement" or that their game is "failing." Of course, it helps that their game isn't failing, but still, there's no need for the SC2 community to be ignominious and self-defeating to themselves and hostile to others just because SC2 has less players than some other game.
A while ago, I wrote a rage blog about how I hated what the word "esports" had come to represent with regards to the SC2 community. Ultimately, I felt that too many in the community were concerned with progressing their game as an "esport" instead of just playing the game and enjoying it. LoL has this issue solved already; Riot takes care of the esports end of things. There's no obligation for fans to "support" something, they just tune in to watch if they want to.
Quote from Marc Merrill, president and co-founder of Riot Games and executive producer for LoL:
We lose a lot of money on e-sports," said Merrill. "It's not something, currently, that we do to drive return or profitability or whatnot. It's bringing value to our players. Maybe, down the road, that will change. This is something that we believe, as a company, philosophically, if we bring value to our players, they'll reward us with engagement.
Sure, there's always someone who complains about "professionalism," or some other such nonsense, but in general people are just excited to be watching pro gamers compete in the game they like. The biggest thing I see in the LoL community is that people are having fun. They're enjoying themselves. Rarely do you see a post about anything approximating "ladder anxiety," and there exist unranked game modes for that express purpose. Even though the LoL in-game community can be, at times, notoriously awful (I played a game last night where literally every single teammate of mine yelled at each other the whole game alongside the random, unwarranted, and oddly personal shittalk from the enemy jungler), their out of game community is miles ahead of the SC2 community in terms of friendliness and accessibility. I have not seriously browsed r/starcraft in a long time, but when I started going to r/leagueoflegends it was like a breath of fresh air. Compare the recent threads about Tasteless casting LoL for GOMTV.
r/leageoflegends:
Oh my God, Tasteless is casting Korean IPL5 qualifiers.
I'm so God damn excited. I loved watching him cast throughout all of his SC days, so to see him showing some interest in League is just awesome.
r/starcraft:
We're fucked. Tasteless casting LoL on GOMTV right now.
It's just one example, but I'm not going to trawl r/starcraft for negative, whiny posts. Yes, r/leagueoflegends has its share of annoyances. For example, because Riot is far more interactive with the community, some people feel a sense of entitlement and will post suggestions, many of which are rather outlandish, prefaced with "Riot please," instead of posting it on the Riot forums. But the overall atmosphere is so much more pleasant. Maybe some of it stems from game design. If you think something is overpowered in LoL, you simply ban that champion or pick it yourself, whereas in SC2 you feel somewhat locked into your choice of race. But the causes don't really matter, because there's no reason for the hatred that is spewed even if SC2 is a more frustrating game, which it obviously can be.
I've been talking about reddit, but it has affected TL, too. Just go read the thread about TL announcing their addition of Dota 2 content; it's littered with all sorts of unconstructive whining. Even whining that's only tangentially related, like "Well, at least it's not fucking LoL." It's like that mythic "Brood War elitism" rubbed off on the SC2 newcomers who then collectively shit on other games, without realizing the irony that they're just repeating the same pointless arguments that raged when people from BW started to switch to SC2. In fact, all the things the SC2 elitists lob at LoL (it's too casual, it has too low of a skill ceiling, it's no fun to watch) are the same shit the BW guys were saying about SC2! But I'm not even arguing the merits of the games. I'm talking about the communities. Why would anyone want to be a part of the SC2 community?
More to the point, why would anyone who is not currently playing Starcraft ever want to join the SC2 community and start playing the game for themselves? If the noobs of battle.net 1.0 who played "Strip the Girl" and "Ling Blood" eventually grew up to be hardcore SC2 fans, then why would those fans proceed to, a decade later, shit on people who are fans of LoL? How can we simultaneously hold the opinion that custom games suck in SC2 and that people who play LoL are casual trash who deserve only enmity? It's not like those casuals would want to play custom SC2 games, right? So wouldn't their LoL playing be more akin to a noob in WC3 playing Dota and maybe eventually giving 1v1 ladder a shot? It just happens that nowadays it has to be done across game platforms instead of in battle.net. If we're going to argue that Battle.net 2.0 feels like a graveyard, and then make the out-of-game communities even worse to be a part of, then it's no fucking wonder the game's numbers are dwindling. Some people would prefer a graveyard to some of the threads that end up receiving multiple mod notes here on TL. That whole "the Starcraft community is the most mature, well-mannered gaming community" spiel didn't make it much past 2010.
I am aware that TL does not have the god-like power to make everyone nice and well-mannered. But you can do your part and stop needlessly shitting on other people's games, especially ones you've never even played before. And if you already don't do that, you can call those people out and report them (at least on TL) to be moderated. Don't argue with them, just remind them that different people like different things. Don’t just let assholes ruin the reputation of the nice segment of the SC2 population. Even if you despise LoL for whatever reason, it does no fucking good to whine about its existence on a forum dedicated to an entirely different game. The insecurity of some segments of the SC2 community is showing, and it is not pretty. You cannot build up the community by shitting on other communities. You can build it up by making it a place a person would actually want to be a part of, which, oftentimes, it is not.
If we really want to save HotS, then we can start by not being such douchebags in WoL.
Edit:
+ Show Spoiler +Imagine you live in an apartment. On the street outside your apartment, there is a pothole. Every day you go to check your mail and your neighbor from the apartment beside yours mentions "The pothole is still there." At first you think he's just trying to be helpful. Then, weeks go by. The pothole is still there. It seems to have gotten even bigger. Now your neighbor starts complaining about the city government, about how the mayor promised to increase the budget for the roads department, about how he's a crook and he wasn't going to vote for him next year, about how the whole political system is fucked beyond belief. This goes on and on for days and days until you eventually start to hate your irritating goddamn neighbor more than the actual pothole. You didn't make the pothole, and while you agree that it would be great if the city fixed it, you don't need some prick yelling about it to you every day.
Yes, SC2 has problems, but every fucking person in the community does not need to be constantly harping on it. WoL Thread: PvZvPvZvP, patch zergs, terran underpowered. HotS thread: Blizzard is retarded, game is broken, BW was better. Esports thread: Blizzard doesn't care about esports, casuals are killing esports with their shitty games. Any thread: player bashing, caster bashing, team bashing, bashing other games.
I haven't watched Day9's daily show in probably more than a year, but I decided to click on it yesterday and found that a bit more than 4000 people were watching him analyze a HotS game he was playing. Where are those 4000 people in the community who want to be better gamers? They aren't posting because any glimmer of positivity gets swallowed by the overwhelming blackness of hatred that a segement of the community has toward itself and others.
The easy thing to say is "well, just don't read threads, then." However, I like reading other people's opinions about shit. But when the only opinions that get through are the negative ones, not only is it hard to have any actual discussion, but the "discussion" that takes place ends up just making everyone feel miserable.
 
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If you want people to stop being negative you have to be a positive force yourself. People only learn by example. What people learn from this example is that they should all complain about how everyone is being so negative. Enjoy the forthcoming slew of blogs that will be about the exact same topic.
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5/5 had this sentiment but couldn't have expressed it nearly so well.
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This time is really important for the starcraft community. The status quo is revolting, and the test is whether we can go through a catharsis and better ourselves as a community, or if we just break down into a bunch of squabbling kids who bitch about petty things as Starcraft crumbles and crashes around us
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On October 22 2012 10:15 Chef wrote:
If you want people to stop being negative you have to be a positive force yourself. People only learn by example. What people learn from this example is that they should all complain about how everyone is being so negative. Enjoy the forthcoming slew of blogs that will be about the exact same topic.
Personally, I was one of those "who'd ever watch people play LoL" guys. Then I started doing it, and I really enjoyed it. Now I know how annoying it is to like something and have people post "why would anyone like that?"
My suggestion of trying to engage people who are being negative and convince them to stop or see something from another perspective is hard or unrealistic, I know. It's much easier just to give up on the community, but that makes the game an even more lonely place.
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To add to this sentiment, or at least re-iterate, not enough people treat their online correspondence as they would if these people were flesh and blood and standing right in front of them. I would urge everyone to consider their behavior (and I am no exception for sure) and actions carefully, because this kind of bile only leads to more negativity and an overall souring of our 'community', what ever community that is is you belong to.
If I could point out something as well (and this is a worse case scenario), if this kind of behavior becomes a systemic problem the unfortunate reality is that some people who want to contribute, or already contribute a lot will eventually loose interest or dissociate themselves, or even leave, which from some of the people I've met here would be a shame.
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On October 22 2012 10:21 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 10:15 Chef wrote:
If you want people to stop being negative you have to be a positive force yourself. People only learn by example. What people learn from this example is that they should all complain about how everyone is being so negative. Enjoy the forthcoming slew of blogs that will be about the exact same topic. Personally, I was one of those "who'd ever watch people play LoL" guys. Then I started doing it, and I really enjoyed it. Now I know how annoying it is to like something and have people post "why would anyone like that?" My suggestion of trying to engage people who are being negative and convince them to stop or see something from another perspective is hard or unrealistic, I know. It's much easier just to give up on the community, but that makes the game an even more lonely place.
TBH I think that's basically like getting into arguments with people on US East sever in BW (back in the day, I guess) who use racial slurs. It's totally fruitless. Easy to do, easy to waste a lot of time on and get self-righteous about, but in the end doesn't make the server a better place. Way better to make a map, or to play fun games or to make a community site like TL or WGT or PGT or GG.net, where you can meet other people that want to be awesome.
Bee boop. I guess your hope is people will rally under this banner and get more aggressive with people who are rude and negative, but then you'll just have lots of threads being destroyed with flamewars like in BW when teams were disbanding. Wasn't really a good time for anyone.
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Yes, positivity is good. I agree with you completely.
But negativity exists for a reason. There is probably a better way to communicate frustrations, but a community isn't exactly an agile creature. It bumbles around, trips, and talks about big things in a loud, slurred voice.
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Yes you are right, the amount of QQ in the community is positively strangling me right now. I do what I can, I wrote a lighthearted/satire blog to try to ease people up:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=376698(selfless plug, forgive me please).
And yeah, that last line sums it up quite well.
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The only reason I'd watch LoL is if Tasteless is commentating. I like playing the game but it's really not that fun to watch.
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When it comes down to it, the game will thrive or die based off of the gameplay. The gameplay has to be there. Take a long hard look at how wings of liberty plays out right now.
The gameplay has to be good and exciting to watch and unpredictable as well. Viewers are very smart nowadays. You can only say so many times "amazing fungals" in casts. Viewers are very easily going to pick up that something is wrong with the game if there is something so overwhelmingly good that every game boils down to using it.
I know that's not what a lot of people want to hear, they want to hear other things, but it's the gameplay. You cannot hide viewers from the actual game. If every game ends up being broodlord infestor, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Sure, UI issues could be a lot better, among other things, but once again, it boils down to gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.
Lots of us here watched brood war for 10+ years because of the gameplay. We were excited to see what strategies the pros would pull out their next pro game, or how certain players would play against others. Every game certainly was not the same as the last, nor were they predictable in the least.
Can you honestly with your heart say that right now about wings of liberty? Lots of people that came from other RTS communities saw their games like AOE, cnc, etc. die because the developers failed to balance their game and address easily identifiable design issues.
As a viewer of SC2 right now, watching every game boil down to infestor/broodlord, and seeing no Terrans in the scene compared to Z/Ps is frustrating to say the least.
People think chat channels will magically fix all of this. They are a great start, but the gameplay matters the most.
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United States33128 Posts
On October 22 2012 10:15 Chef wrote:
If you want people to stop being negative you have to be a positive force yourself. People only learn by example. What people learn from this example is that they should all complain about how everyone is being so negative. Enjoy the forthcoming slew of blogs that will be about the exact same topic.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I don't know what kind of mental contortions you had to do to think you're entitled to say that
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zz
I'm not always a bastion of positivity, but I know I've read posts where people did something creative and directly credited me as an inspiration for doing it because they'd enjoyed random battle reports and stuff I'd done. My negativity never produced anything good, my positivity did. I'd say I am qualified in that I've seen both sides of the coin.
I don't think it's that nice to make fun of a depressed person tho. Of course I am going to have my bad moments.
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On October 22 2012 10:15 Chef wrote:
If you want people to stop being negative you have to be a positive force yourself. People only learn by example. What people learn from this example is that they should all complain about how everyone is being so negative. Enjoy the forthcoming slew of blogs that will be about the exact same topic.
Missed this the first time. 5/5 priceless first comment.
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This really is a breath of fresh air from all of the other hatefest threads out there. No matter what issues there may be with the game or esports, hating just isn't going to do anything but piss people off.
Your blogs are always gold. Probably because you're still sitting pretty on the millions I spent on you in d2  .
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On October 22 2012 11:07 avilo wrote:
When it comes down to it, the game will thrive or die based off of the gameplay. The gameplay has to be there. Take a long hard look at how wings of liberty plays out right now.
The gameplay has to be good and exciting to watch and unpredictable as well. Viewers are very smart nowadays. You can only say so many times "amazing fungals" in casts. Viewers are very easily going to pick up that something is wrong with the game if there is something so overwhelmingly good that every game boils down to using it.
I know that's not what a lot of people want to hear, they want to hear other things, but it's the gameplay. You cannot hide viewers from the actual game. If every game ends up being broodlord infestor, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Sure, UI issues could be a lot better, among other things, but once again, it boils down to gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.
Lots of us here watched brood war for 10+ years because of the gameplay. We were excited to see what strategies the pros would pull out their next pro game, or how certain players would play against others. Every game certainly was not the same as the last, nor were they predictable in the least.
Can you honestly with your heart say that right now about wings of liberty? Lots of people that came from other RTS communities saw their games like AOE, cnc, etc. die because the developers failed to balance their game and address easily identifiable design issues.
As a viewer of SC2 right now, watching every game boil down to infestor/broodlord, and seeing no Terrans in the scene compared to Z/Ps is frustrating to say the least.
People think chat channels will magically fix all of this. They are a great start, but the gameplay matters the most.
SC2 is not Brood War and the gameplay will never be like BW. Seriously the gameplay is very good and although it is predictable in some matchups (Protoss matchups) it is very entertaining. The balance is at a great spot right now in the Korean scene.
Also every game with Z ends up with BL Infestor because that is the ultimate composition. Why exclude all the stuff that happens before? If a game has lots of entertaining fighting and then ends with BL/Infestor is it bad?
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This post is the reason I quit playing a while ago. I was like, lets try out LoL a bit, SC2 is too stressful right now, the people are raging too much etc. The reason I quit is because of the drama, the hate, the cries of OP, all the things that if we were positive probably would have kept me. I'm not alone here, there are a lot of people like me. I love SC2 progaming to death, but today with the DH bucharest tourney I just couldn't watch because of all the recent hate on HotS and SlayerS drama and the like. I just couldn't look at the game the same way. As a gamer I just want to have fun and LoL does that pretty well for me. Yes sometimes people are idiots and there is a lot of rage, but in general its not as bad as some of the stuff on SC2 ladder and especially not as bad as the venom on some of the forums here.
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When I read this I had to do a double take on DoA's post to make sure you weren't just copy-pasting.
Other than that, well-said 5/5
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You're definitely right on, but honestly I think most of this ridiculously over-the-top negativity will stop in the next week. There are a lot of very unnecessary topics on TL right now and that is depressing, but certainly all the bitch-whining is making things much much worse.
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I agree that people are being too negative and blowing things out of proportion. Also its this mob mentality that people seem to have so when someone shows their frustration towards something everyone else will jump on and show their frustration as well and possibly take it too far. Sure SC2 is not at the place we would love it to be at but it sure is not doing that bad either and we gotta look at all the positive things instead of solely focusing on the negatives.
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I do think the negativity hurts potential buyers. When I usually think about buying games, I browse random forums to see what the general reactions are like to get a good idea if the game is good or not. I would think that all the whine about the design of the game and balance whine would deter me. Don`t know about the whole esports aspect of it though.
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It's not easy to be positive when you don't think the game is very good anymore 
I agree with Avilo's post, if we want the game to be successful the gameplay needs to improve, right now It's awful. ( in my opinion )
We have a lot of problems, but the biggest one is that It's just not as entertaining to spectate the game right now. Matchups are stagnant, lack of Terrans in tournaments outside the GSL makes this even worse. I can predict 90% of PvZ's by what happens in the first 10 minutes even if the game is 50 minutes long, where's the excitement?
Even in the GSL finals, Life vs Mvp, it was far too predictable.
Mvp played Mech every game. It boiled down to " Did Mvp kill enough drones with his Hellions to allow himself to reach his maxed Mech army before Life is able to have a sufficient Brood Lord/Infestor army to deal with it?
If Yes, Mvp wins. If no, Life wins.
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@dodgin above me: Awww but you're a poster I recognize, don't pull a tasteless and lose your passion
On October 22 2012 11:11 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 10:15 Chef wrote:
If you want people to stop being negative you have to be a positive force yourself. People only learn by example. What people learn from this example is that they should all complain about how everyone is being so negative. Enjoy the forthcoming slew of blogs that will be about the exact same topic. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha I don't know what kind of mental contortions you had to do to think you're entitled to say that
Haha win of thread.
Gheed is like some sort of mix between Jesus, Socrates, A missionary, and Yoda. He's either doing some bullshit with weird ass people or he's making critiques of a community he is a demigod of, yet doesn't reside in. Gheed is an iconic TLer that rarely goes to TL. He found our drama storm through the LoL reddit after playing LoL. But his reputation negates such a travesty.
As to Jesu- I mean Gheed's point, I've indulged in a terribad blog and some discussion since the drama happened(thoughvmy fight was mostly over the GSL finals that were swept up into the sc2 is failing idea)..I realized I just need to go back to RL and let GSL up and downs and then season 5 happen, let time pass so i can go to mlg columbus this winter and compete and watch, and let a week pass and My home page won't have so many damn hot threads relating to drama.
Truely, the canvas of the community is painted red right now, but give it time and we'll be back to our original delightful hues. So Gheed says stop being so negative----> I say it will happen as the drama dies down.
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United States33128 Posts
On October 22 2012 11:12 Chef wrote:
zz
I'm not always a bastion of positivity, but I know I've read posts where people did something creative and directly credited me as an inspiration for doing it because they'd enjoyed random battle reports and stuff I'd done. My negativity never produced anything good, my positivity did. I'd say I am qualified in that I've seen both sides of the coin.
I don't think it's that nice to make fun of a depressed person tho. Of course I am going to have my bad moments.
it's too late, we all know you want SC2 to die
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LoL's f2p model, as well as it being a new game, are large parts of why the community is much better than star2 at the moment I think.
People expect blizzard to make fantastic games ala BW, and feel let down because they paid $60~ for it. Whereas in league, you don't need to spend any money unless you have fun. I know i've spent something like $75-100 because it was an awesome game and I wanted to support it (this was way before it was at 15 million players&such). But with star2, people paid up front and want a reward for it, instead of rewarding blizzard for doing a good job.
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Since I haven't played SC2 in years, I don't really understand why/how all of that drama about SC2 death happens, but I must admit you're quite right in your blog. When I left SC2 after only some months playing it, it was only because I didn't have that feeling I had when I played BW (and somewhat W3) and I found the game too serious. Seriousness killed my interest in the game and I barely watch ten games a year.
That being said, except for trolling purpose when talking with friends, I've never bashed SC2 because it's inferior to BW or whatever. And next to that, I read every day some bashing on LoL and it clearly not put me in a right mood to "promote the real e-sport". Most of the people I know just don't care about SC2. To be fair, they just don't care about e-sports. If a link is put on their client from time to time, they'll probably watch it, not because it's the goddamn sacred E-SPORT, but because it's a game they play and enjoy. As far as we all are fans of SC2/BW/anything, our fanatism only represent a small part of the gaming community, and a smaller part of the world population.
If I had one, just one advice to give to SC2 - a probably not dead game, I'm sure of it - try to give others your love for the game, not your hate for the others. If we take a look at football, so many hundred of millions of people watch it because hundred of millions of others watch it. It's easy to share something when you have a highly chance of knowing someone else watching it. It doesn't mean football has the best rules in the world. Nor that their players are the strongest athletes in the world, but still, a lot of people watch it. If you want to promote handball, volleyball, curling or chess boxing, hell, it's not by saying football fans are morons you'll convince them to follow you.
Hell, I'll probably give HotS a try if you guys are a little bit positive about it one day. :p
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Fucking fantastic, and right on the heels of DoA's post haha. Really really well-written and it definitely puts on paper monitor what I was thinking as well but unable to express effectively.
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On October 22 2012 11:07 avilo wrote:
When it comes down to it, the game will thrive or die based off of the gameplay. The gameplay has to be there. Take a long hard look at how wings of liberty plays out right now.
The gameplay has to be good and exciting to watch and unpredictable as well. Viewers are very smart nowadays. You can only say so many times "amazing fungals" in casts. Viewers are very easily going to pick up that something is wrong with the game if there is something so overwhelmingly good that every game boils down to using it.
I know that's not what a lot of people want to hear, they want to hear other things, but it's the gameplay. You cannot hide viewers from the actual game. If every game ends up being broodlord infestor, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Sure, UI issues could be a lot better, among other things, but once again, it boils down to gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.
Lots of us here watched brood war for 10+ years because of the gameplay. We were excited to see what strategies the pros would pull out their next pro game, or how certain players would play against others. Every game certainly was not the same as the last, nor were they predictable in the least.
Can you honestly with your heart say that right now about wings of liberty? Lots of people that came from other RTS communities saw their games like AOE, cnc, etc. die because the developers failed to balance their game and address easily identifiable design issues.
As a viewer of SC2 right now, watching every game boil down to infestor/broodlord, and seeing no Terrans in the scene compared to Z/Ps is frustrating to say the least.
People think chat channels will magically fix all of this. They are a great start, but the gameplay matters the most.
Yeah man, being the most well represented race in every single season of code s must be really rough. Clearly needs more terrans. And every season this year they were also the most well represented race in code a. And last I checked nobody seemed to have an issue with every ZvZ in Broodwar being muta ling and defilers and science vessels being used in every ZvT that hit late game... Lots of people got tired of hearing "PLAGUUUUUU!!!!" right?
Note: I am not saying the game is in any way imbalanced. Also, if you want to complain about any matchup being uninteresting I think ZvP is the one that most needs fixing, with PvP up there as well, although PvP has gotten somewhat better on its own lately, so maybe it just needs more time.
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Canada8029 Posts
Except that was an April Fools joke...
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On October 22 2012 10:08 Gheed wrote:
That whole "the Starcraft community is the most mature, well-mannered gaming community" spiel didn't make it much past 2010.
While I agree with most of your blog, this is what I have been shouting from the rooftops since Day 30. Once the month or so long honeymoon wore off, this community has been shit. But people kept building themselves up as a great community, and when you do that, you get stuff like emailing sponsors and turning Reddit/TL into a burning, toiling morass of "Let's complain about Blizzard here!"
There's a reason I've slowly moved toward DOTA2, and I swear it's not because I'm bad at SC2. Though I totally am. It's because this community has some kind of identity disorder where they call themselves the best and most well-mannered community as they regularly show themselves as the exact opposite. Why would I continue watching Dreamhack when they have 5 or fewer Koreans and are STILL called the best tourney ever by Europeans, but MLG has 10 or more, and top quality foreigner talent, and it's shit on by Europeans for no actual reason? There are blatantly obvious camps of hate and frustration and immaturity in this community, and I've been calling them out from day one. You can only take so much of seeing European xenophobia (while they call out American xenophobia) while seeing Korean racism while seeing prize pool e-peen measuring while seeing constant shit being piled on Browder/Kim, while seeing constant drama over complete bullshit, while having to put up with drama babies that apparently have never been on the Internet before (read: Every European that honestly got offended during the "USA! USA!" chants for Stephano at MLG. I was at Columbus, and he fucking loved it. Everyone here, though, apparently thought we should be arrested for insulting him. Too bad he wasn't insulted, huh?).
So now I'm watching a lot more DOTA2, and watching much less SC2. I'll always watch State of the Game, and I'll always follow dem Teamliquid players, but don't let anyone tell you differently. I left because of the community, not because of the game. The game was fine. Fun even. This community sucked every little bit of fun they could out of it though. And it's a really sad thing.
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On October 22 2012 12:25 GTPGlitch wrote:
LoL's f2p model, as well as it being a new game, are large parts of why the community is much better than star2 at the moment I think.
People expect blizzard to make fantastic games ala BW, and feel let down because they paid $60~ for it. Whereas in league, you don't need to spend any money unless you have fun. I know i've spent something like $75-100 because it was an awesome game and I wanted to support it (this was way before it was at 15 million players&such). But with star2, people paid up front and want a reward for it, instead of rewarding blizzard for doing a good job.
Just to clear this up LoL is not a new game it was released in 2009, a ~year before WoL.
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What irritates me the most is all the people that are establishing others' opinions as their own instead of coming to their own conclusions. Much of the backlash and irritation that has occurred in the past few weeks is justified, but the bandwagoning is NOT (though it is a natural consequence). I hate all the talk of doomsday, though. Part of the reason why I talk out against the current state of the game is because I am so passionate FOR the game, and even more for the COMMUNITY around it.
And I do hate to see some of this community go apeshit everytime something of little consequence happens just so they can have another fill of drama. But more than that I get angry every time a complaint thread pops up and the first reply I see is someone saying "no, this isn't true, it will be fine, the game is GREAT, don't complain because you aren't satisfied, this has been said before..."
Why do you think these complaints keep popping up again and again? Because people CARE. They are passionate. They love this game. And they want to see it be the best, in all points of development. Gameplay and UI wise. They desperately want to see this game become the modern pinnacle of eSport, a holy grail, the best modern RTS game that is constantly improved and played for another decade.
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We need to stop being so fucking negative.
Thats it.
Blizzard just have no chance of making it right.
New Units:
Bahhh they aren´t creative and recycling BW units or bahhh these new units don´t fit with Starcraft.
ESport and money support:
Bahhh they aren´t committing to Esport or They suck they have to give money to make the bad game Esport.
Blizzard don´t listen:
Blizzard fucking don´t listen to the community or Wait what Blizzard balanced the game for Avilo... hmmm not good 
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On October 22 2012 14:50 USvBleakill wrote:Thats it. Blizzard just have no chance of making it right.
Well if I would do extremely shitty job at my work 24 months straight, I just might get replaced. Blizzard folks have been trying to make Sc2 work over 2 years now. And its just bad Zergcraft game. Maybe, just maybe if you cannot make it work in 24 months, you never can & should hire someone who can.
and maybe, if some other races would be playable in HOTS than just Zerg like in WoL now, ppl might find Sc2 attractive again.. and hey ! maybe even find some Terrans in ladder / GM - Now that is an outrageous idea right ! I know.
User was warned for this post
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On October 22 2012 11:07 avilo wrote:
When it comes down to it, the game will thrive or die based off of the gameplay. The gameplay has to be there. Take a long hard look at how wings of liberty plays out right now.
The gameplay has to be good and exciting to watch and unpredictable as well. Viewers are very smart nowadays. You can only say so many times "amazing fungals" in casts. Viewers are very easily going to pick up that something is wrong with the game if there is something so overwhelmingly good that every game boils down to using it.
I know that's not what a lot of people want to hear, they want to hear other things, but it's the gameplay. You cannot hide viewers from the actual game. If every game ends up being broodlord infestor, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Sure, UI issues could be a lot better, among other things, but once again, it boils down to gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.
Lots of us here watched brood war for 10+ years because of the gameplay. We were excited to see what strategies the pros would pull out their next pro game, or how certain players would play against others. Every game certainly was not the same as the last, nor were they predictable in the least.
Can you honestly with your heart say that right now about wings of liberty? Lots of people that came from other RTS communities saw their games like AOE, cnc, etc. die because the developers failed to balance their game and address easily identifiable design issues.
As a viewer of SC2 right now, watching every game boil down to infestor/broodlord, and seeing no Terrans in the scene compared to Z/Ps is frustrating to say the least.
People think chat channels will magically fix all of this. They are a great start, but the gameplay matters the most.
Even as a Zerg player who usually hates avilo balance whine... I agree with this. The game play is so stagnant.
I keep drawing parallels to what is happening to the SC2 community right now and the Halo community. Halo 1/2 were extremely skill oriented games, which many hardcore Halo players still play, and ignore the noob fest that are Halo 3/Reach. Not to say Halo 3/Reach are bad shooters, but once you got to the top level of play, there was very little separating elite players from average pros, as compared to it's two predecessors. But during Halo 3's boom, it was the premier game of MLG, esports did not really exist yet aside from BW (which was only in Korea), so Halo enjoyed a great lack of competition, and people ignored the flaws of the game because they had no worries of the boom ending. And with Halo:Reach coming out, people expected it to just continue.
But out came SC2, LoL, DotA, etc, and suddenly everyone was complaining about how Halo:Reach sucked, how MLG had deserted Halo and switched to SC2, how Halo pros were streaming SC2 occasionally (sound familiar to SC2 players complaining about Tasteless casting GOM, or players switching to LoL?), etc. Then FINALLY came everyone admitting that the game is crap, and complaining to the devs, Bungie. Bungie didn't really give af, and after ignoring our begging for a patch, finally passed Halo over to 343 Studios, who patched the game, but too late. A bunch of the community had gone/switched to other games, pros were already frustrated, older pros had lost their drive and retired... the community/pros tried to have a "revival" where they all came together and were positive and released content and tried to have a huge showing at MLG to keep Halo at events, but it didn't work.
Why? Because the game still needs to be good. The community can be as positive as they want, but if the game is boring then you are not going anywhere. SC2 right now is boring in ZvT and ZvP. TvP is decent, ZvZ and PvP are stable and can have some interesting builds, but still usually end up the standard roach/infestor/hydra vs roach/infestor/hydra and war of the worlds, respectively. Or an all in. The most interesting match up is TvT, due to the skill ceiling of Terran.
What we need is a generalized consensus between the pros, the community, and Blizzard on how exactly we need to approach this game in HotS from a design perspective to make it more skill oriented. Casuals can always be brought in using tactics described in other blogs (lots more fun arcade/custom games, friendlier UI, etc) but we NEED a top level game to remain the premier e-sport.
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It seems a bit ironic that the author of the fabulous previous blogs about bronze (mostly, concerning how lower level players learn or don't learn) is posting a blog about the amount of negativity swirling through the SC2 community. (Note: I effing hate "The Community" as it is often invoked, and not just in the most evil entities thread.) Of course, because it's Gheed, it's also insightful and pretty much spot on. Just because I can't watch LoL, doesn't mean it sucks. (Never played it; but I can't watch it. Even for Tasteless.)
I don't think pointless bitching and witchhunting and general insanity helps anyone. There is constructive criticism (and that does not just mean crap in a comment sandwich) that comes from some people. Well thought out, reasoned posts that are emotionally neutral debates of the pros or cons of some unit, strategy, whatever. Then there are shitfests of emotional pleas, begging of the developer, or "this is happening and it sucks and we're all playing a dead game blah blah blah". Need more of the former, and less of the latter. Happy lanes Gheed. (Or are you jungling?) (Am I doing it right?)
As far as chat channels, I miss Terran Strategy on NA. Even the trolls were occassionally fun to talk to. -_-'
So, I guess the thread goes back to bitching now? (Insert Avilo joke here.)
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On October 22 2012 15:27 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 11:07 avilo wrote:
When it comes down to it, the game will thrive or die based off of the gameplay. The gameplay has to be there. Take a long hard look at how wings of liberty plays out right now.
The gameplay has to be good and exciting to watch and unpredictable as well. Viewers are very smart nowadays. You can only say so many times "amazing fungals" in casts. Viewers are very easily going to pick up that something is wrong with the game if there is something so overwhelmingly good that every game boils down to using it.
I know that's not what a lot of people want to hear, they want to hear other things, but it's the gameplay. You cannot hide viewers from the actual game. If every game ends up being broodlord infestor, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Sure, UI issues could be a lot better, among other things, but once again, it boils down to gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.
Lots of us here watched brood war for 10+ years because of the gameplay. We were excited to see what strategies the pros would pull out their next pro game, or how certain players would play against others. Every game certainly was not the same as the last, nor were they predictable in the least.
Can you honestly with your heart say that right now about wings of liberty? Lots of people that came from other RTS communities saw their games like AOE, cnc, etc. die because the developers failed to balance their game and address easily identifiable design issues.
As a viewer of SC2 right now, watching every game boil down to infestor/broodlord, and seeing no Terrans in the scene compared to Z/Ps is frustrating to say the least.
People think chat channels will magically fix all of this. They are a great start, but the gameplay matters the most. Even as a Zerg player who usually hates avilo balance whine... I agree with this. The game play is so stagnant. I keep drawing parallels to what is happening to the SC2 community right now and the Halo community. Halo 1/2 were extremely skill oriented games, which many hardcore Halo players still play, and ignore the noob fest that are Halo 3/Reach. Not to say Halo 3/Reach are bad shooters, but once you got to the top level of play, there was very little separating elite players from average pros, as compared to it's two predecessors. But during Halo 3's boom, it was the premier game of MLG, esports did not really exist yet aside from BW (which was only in Korea), so Halo enjoyed a great lack of competition, and people ignored the flaws of the game because they had no worries of the boom ending. And with Halo:Reach coming out, people expected it to just continue. But out came SC2, LoL, DotA, etc, and suddenly everyone was complaining about how Halo:Reach sucked, how MLG had deserted Halo and switched to SC2, how Halo pros were streaming SC2 occasionally (sound familiar to SC2 players complaining about Tasteless casting GOM, or players switching to LoL?), etc. Then FINALLY came everyone admitting that the game is crap, and complaining to the devs, Bungie. Bungie didn't really give af, and after ignoring our begging for a patch, finally passed Halo over to 343 Studios, who patched the game, but too late. A bunch of the community had gone/switched to other games, pros were already frustrated, older pros had lost their drive and retired... the community/pros tried to have a "revival" where they all came together and were positive and released content and tried to have a huge showing at MLG to keep Halo at events, but it didn't work. Why? Because the game still needs to be good. The community can be as positive as they want, but if the game is boring then you are not going anywhere. SC2 right now is boring in ZvT and ZvP. TvP is decent, ZvZ and PvP are stable and can have some interesting builds, but still usually end up the standard roach/infestor/hydra vs roach/infestor/hydra and war of the worlds, respectively. Or an all in. The most interesting match up is TvT, due to the skill ceiling of Terran. What we need is a generalized consensus between the pros, the community, and Blizzard on how exactly we need to approach this game in HotS from a design perspective to make it more skill oriented. Casuals can always be brought in using tactics described in other blogs (lots more fun arcade/custom games, friendlier UI, etc) but we NEED a top level game to remain the premier e-sport.
This post takes the thread.
There is really nothing left to be said, SC2 has been running on hype for 2 years. There are too many glaring flaws for it stay sustainable with how its like right now.
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Can we just agree to elect Gheed spokesman of the "community" and collectively shut up?
Seriously, Gheed, you are damn good at expressing good points.
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r/leageoflegends:
Oh my God, Tasteless is casting Korean IPL5 qualifiers.
I'm so God damn excited. I loved watching him cast throughout all of his SC days, so to see him showing some interest in League is just awesome.
r/starcraft:
We're fucked. Tasteless casting LoL on GOMTV right now.
Laughed so hard at this comparison... the SC2 scene seems to have quite the vitreous framework regarding outside imposers. I guess if you want to improve you have to live alongside your competitors and not throw these kinds of hissy fits when another game is shining brighter than yours
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To be honest i did not find the last stog that offensively negative (i only saw the first hour).
But i agree in general with your post. Needlessly negative comments just annoy me, not just against other games, but also towards other people or blizzard. I loved with tlo said in an interview during dreamhack.
Question: 'If you lose this, you might not qualify for dreamhack winter, right?'
TLO: 'Yes, but that's negative thinking.'
He's just refuting the question as important, because it has a negative source. I think people need to think more like this.
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5/5. Not just a reasonable man, but also an excellent worker rusher!
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Completely tangential to your post, but the Riot please thing is actually a meme from their forums:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2225093
Riot pretty regularly used to (not sure if they do much anymore as I don't browse the General Discussion boards in favor of the TL ones) promote memes as a way to engage with their playerbase. So any form of pls riot or riot pls is generally just a reference back to the start of the meme.
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If only that were a reality it might actually save sc2.
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I followed D3 really intensely for a while before released, the game came out, it was awesome but the community just continually freaked out about his and that. There were some 'problems' with the game I guess but holy hell the negativity on the forums was so horrible that it got me really demotivated to play the game. I actually had to stop going to the bnet forums because it was so depressing. The same thing seems to be happening with sc2 HOTS which is not a good sign. Let Blizzard be Blizzard, the pumped out a sick sequel to SC1 and they will kick ass with an expansion also.
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Gheed definitely has a talent for clearly expressing his point of view. But it almost sounds like the community is more important than the game, in determining its popularity. I feel like all the complaining and negativity probably is over the top sometimes, but what would be more convincing - watching some youtube videos by Husky or any other commentator on youtube showing SC2 action, or reading what some people on a forum dedicated to SC2 have to say? I think if people find the game amazing they'll play it, and find people that share their passion.
But besides that I feel like the negativity is (mostly) all justified...in the end this is the kind of pressure that can lead to better games. I believe in part this is what led D3 to make the recent improvements that seemingly everyone is supportive of. Of course in some places people go over the top, but that's standard for any topic.
This is bound to happen when you have a hardcore community. People really really want things to work, and when it doesn't they're going to be upset. Asking that to change is unreasonable; I think it should just be accepted as part of the territory, and that Blizzard will need to step up their efforts if they want things to change...because there truly have been a lot of legitimate complaints that have taken far too long to address.
Asking people to not be so negative is virtually equivalent to asking people to not take the game so seriously, to lower the value of the game as being something for casual, once in a while entertainment. This is not the attitude that will create great games with high standards. Just be positive, say nice things about the game, would just create an aggravating atmosphere of pretending everything is okay when its clearly not.
Maybe I misunderstood you and you just mean "don't be *too* negative, but you can still be critical" - well in that case I agree completely . Constructive criticism should always be encouraged.
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TL is about 85% an awful community. one of the worst ive been a part of. why? i dunno, but you cant change the people, they have to change themselves. let them kill their own game. ill still ladder in peace and break it up with a dota2 game.
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I think the best point that was made here is the fact that SC2 players need to just sit back and ENJOY THEIR GAME.
BW didn't become a pro e-sport because Blizzard promoted the crap out of it back in 1999-2000, it became popular because people really enjoyed playing it, and as more people played more often eventually the skill level increased to a point where it just became the natural progression.
Whether or not the game you play is really popular or not, ultimately you should be playing because you enjoy it; it becoming a spectator sport is really just a bonus in my opinion.
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I really don't find this community so bad. Maybe I just ignore most of the drama, but I doubt it. For the most part I still find people pleasant on ladder and reasonable here.
The TL community during BW was always very well mannered and mature and the amalgamation of SC2 and BW hasn't changed anything. It's the same nice people.
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I remember when the SC2 vs BW thing was on, SC2 guys were all about how SC2 is the greatest thing ever, and nostalgia-ridden BW followers should stfu and gtfo.
I quit following the Starcraft scene after Bisu beat Flash in SPL Grand Finals. Now i come back to see these guys, not having BW to attack anymore, turn around and whine about their own favourite game. Oof.. a little amusing 
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On October 23 2012 00:18 Subversive wrote:
I really don't find this community so bad. Maybe I just ignore most of the drama, but I doubt it. For the most part I still find people pleasant on ladder and reasonable here.
The TL community during BW was always very well mannered and mature and the amalgamation of SC2 and BW hasn't changed anything. It's the same nice people.
Playing on the EU ladder is definitely an enjoyable experience, low amount of bm/obvious hacks and you get to know a good chunk of ppl playing at a highish master level.
As far as TL go, well sc2 general sucks hard, same as LR for mainstream tournaments but some LR are enjoyable, some post in the strat sub forum are interesting. The fact that bullshit is present isn't an excuse to be interested by it.
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5 star post man.
I've been saying the same thing for a long time. Great post man, hopefully people will actually listen.
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Good blog.
On the topic of SC2 fans feeling like they have to be the ones to uphold and push forward e-sports, I don't think it's a bad attitude in general. Hell, Day9 encouraged (maybe still encourages) people through some old dailies to basically be the change they want to see in the scene by getting involved in tournaments, casting, etc. Generally doing things to be involved in the community in a meaningful way.
When you point out that on LoL's end it's Riot who takes care of all the esports stuff, allowing the players to simply enjoy the results without stressing themselves about having ot make it happen, that's great. I guess what it boils down to is that because Riot provides more support for the "esports" end of their game than Blizzard seems to, the SC2 community takes on a much more personal relationship with the ups and downs of the game and the scene. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but when its coupled with Blizzard's perceived lack of interest in really developing SC2 as an esport, or having a good base for casuals, or whatever, people get angry because something they're invested in is changing in a negative way that's beyond their influence.
I don't like sounding like a Day9 fanboy, but if more people had his attitude and just honestly loved playing the game (whether it's 1v1 or team games or customs), the scene would be looking a lot better.
Overall though, I agree with your message, more positivity would be a good thing in our community, and it has to start with the individual.
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On October 22 2012 23:55 ParkwayDrive wrote:
TL is about 85% an awful community. one of the worst ive been a part of. why? i dunno, but you cant change the people, they have to change themselves. let them kill their own game. ill still ladder in peace and break it up with a dota2 game.
When I read this I kind of wanted to shut my browser and quit the internet forever. But then I remembered: I have rapidly cut down the number of visits to TL over the past year, to the point of pretty well quitting. It isn't the negativity that does it for me, to be more specific it's the elitism. The SC2 pro-mod was the best example, "How the game was meant to be played." That's a bold statement. Now the SC2 community has gone overboard with the same elitist holier-than-thou attitude. So you don't like LoL? Don't read the LoL subreddit. Don't do to LoL fansites. Don't fucking play it. It's a simple concept.
This community used to be the shit. I used to wear my TL shirt around proudly, but now it's just another shirt, and this is just another site. Straight downhill.
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awesome, insightful and well thought out blog.
gheed, you have my eternal respect
fave part:
On October 22 2012 10:08 Gheed wrote:
God save the kid that wanders into a PC gaming forum and mentions a console game.)
heheh
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On October 23 2012 04:40 MutaDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 23:55 ParkwayDrive wrote:
TL is about 85% an awful community. one of the worst ive been a part of. why? i dunno, but you cant change the people, they have to change themselves. let them kill their own game. ill still ladder in peace and break it up with a dota2 game. When I read this I kind of wanted to shut my browser and quit the internet forever. But then I remembered: I have rapidly cut down the number of visits to TL over the past year, to the point of pretty well quitting. It isn't the negativity that does it for me, to be more specific it's the elitism. The SC2 pro-mod was the best example, "How the game was meant to be played." That's a bold statement. Now the SC2 community has gone overboard with the same elitist holier-than-thou attitude. So you don't like LoL? Don't read the LoL subreddit. Don't do to LoL fansites. Don't fucking play it. It's a simple concept. This community used to be the shit. I used to wear my TL shirt around proudly, but now it's just another shirt, and this is just another site. Straight downhill.
Excellent post, and I couldn't agree more. All of this negativity, and regardless of what "waxangel" has to say (and I agree with IdrA on "waxangel"'s persona), it *is* stupid to attack negativity with a negative, bashing post. Gheed's post isn't changing anybody's mind at all, there is nothing persuasive about it.
I come to this website mostly to watch Minus)Eagle, ForGG, Sea, and a couple other people play, just because I prefer the interface to cluttered Own3D/Twitch. I come here to skim the blogs and read the occasional good one. With a few exceptions, it is a very negative place to be.
reddit.com/r/starcraft is far more negative and self-conscious these days though -- when silly stuff submitted there has to be tagged as "Fluff" ... do you really think I want to click that shit now? I already *knew* it was "Fluff", but you flaunt it in my face and make me feel like an idiot for clicking it.
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On October 23 2012 04:40 MutaDoom wrote:
When I read this I kind of wanted to shut my browser and quit the internet forever. But then I remembered: I have rapidly cut down the number of visits to TL over the past year, to the point of pretty well quitting. It isn't the negativity that does it for me, to be more specific it's the elitism. The SC2 pro-mod was the best example, "How the game was meant to be played." That's a bold statement. Now the SC2 community has gone overboard with the same elitist holier-than-thou attitude. So you don't like LoL? Don't read the LoL subreddit. Don't do to LoL fansites. Don't fucking play it. It's a simple concept.
This community used to be the shit. I used to wear my TL shirt around proudly, but now it's just another shirt, and this is just another site. Straight downhill.
I have the same feeling as you.
As I'm not concerned by SC2 since forever, negativity doesn't really touch me, but the elitism, it's hard to handle. TL used to be an elitist site, on the bright side. Maybe the fact BW was almost nothing out of Korea - and if not for TL, it could have been simply dead - just made the people nicer. Hardcore fans, yeah, but always trying to fish some newbs like I was (and I was caught by it !). Like you, I no longer browse TL fifty times a day, but there are still nice dudes on this site. Can't tell for all the sub-forums but the ones I read the most (sports&games, blogs, LoL, BW, sometimes Dota2) are pretty decent.
I'm under the impression people waited too much from SC2, while BW was clearly a mistake in the world of e-sports. Damn me if Blizzard expected to grow - without doing anything to help it - one of the major e-sports game of all time. There was nothing before, and no competition. As a beginning, BW is an error and a huge success. More than 10 years later, the scene isn't the same anymore, people are watching tons of different games, and there isn't anymore a place for a single game at the king of them all.
I hope knowing the fact SC2 (neither any other game) can't be a "BW" will help to go through that negativity and that elitism, and will result with guys just enjoying their game and their scene. After all, TL is a "progaming news site", and if SC2 dies one day, well, people will just watch another game. It's quite sad to watch only one game after all, when there are so many fishes in the sea. :p
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Imagine you live in an apartment. On the street outside your apartment, there is a pothole. Every day you go to check your mail and your neighbor from the apartment beside yours mentions "The pothole is still there." At first you think he's just trying to be helpful. Then, weeks go by. The pothole is still there. It seems to have gotten even bigger. Now your neighbor starts complaining about the city government, about how the mayor promised to increase the budget for the roads department, about how he's a crook and he wasn't going to vote for him next year, about how the whole political system is fucked beyond belief. This goes on and on for days and days until you eventually start to hate your irritating goddamn neighbor more than the actual pothole. You didn't make the pothole, and while you agree that it would be great if the city fixed it, you don't need some prick yelling about it to you every day.
Yes, SC2 has problems, but every fucking person in the community does not need to be constantly harping on it. WoL Thread: PvZvPvZvP, patch zergs, terran underpowered. HotS thread: Blizzard is retarded, game is broken, BW was better. Esports thread: Blizzard doesn't care about esports, casuals are killing esports with their shitty games. Any thread: player bashing, caster bashing, team bashing, bashing other games.
I haven't watched Day9's daily show in probably more than a year, but I decided to click on it yesterday and found that a bit more than 4000 people were watching him analyze a HotS game he was playing. Where are those 4000 people in the community who want to be better gamers? They aren't posting because any glimmer of positivity gets swallowed by the overwhelming blackness of hatred that a segement of the community has toward itself and others.
The easy thing to say is "well, just don't read threads, then." However, I like reading other people's opinions about shit. But when the only opinions that get through are the negative ones, not only is it hard to have any actual discussion, but the "discussion" that takes place ends up just making everyone feel miserable.
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I have a hard time being positive in regards to SC2. It is the game that killed Brood War, both the pro scene and my association with friends that I only knew through BW (Some are on my facebook, but I rarely communicate with them now). I can still play BW, but the game effectively dead for me now. I bought SC2 about a year after release and enjoyed the single player part of it. I have laddered more than I ever laddered in BW, but the game does not give me the same adrenaline kick as its predecessor. Over time, it has not held my interest. My failure to form new lasting friendships in BNet 2.0 has also left the game for the most part dead to me, almost as dead as Brood War.
HotS of LotV may still be able to reel me back in if they are crafted correctly. I will probably buy them no matter what, if only to play the single player campaign. I am however somewhat resigned to the idea that everything that was/is great about Brood War can't be recreated.
And yes, I am probably the exact kind of community member that you are complaining about, and for that I apologize...
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I'm completely shocked that Gheed even watched State of the Game.............that podcast is still on? I thought it was retired (thankfully)?
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I love Gheed's blogs. And this one does not disappoint.
I even had the pleasure once, a long time ago, to hold off one of Gheed's worker rushes.
Keep it real Gheed!
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Thanks for expressing this in your blog.
I wanted to write a satirical blog on how porting Dota to Dota 2 has killed e-sports because the game is so easy.
Things that requires lots of click or on the spot prep can now be done beforehand or with ease.
But I got lazy....
It is very shitty to read TL or SCReddit because of all the whining and complaining. I rarely post is because there is nothing much to add to the whining crowd so mostly I post to troll.
I don't expect much to change though.. the mentality of majority is already as is.
I'll just continue to enjoy playing SC2 and Dota instead of posting on forums to whine.
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Always love your blogs Gheed, please don't ever leave us.
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Thank you Gheed for typing these thoughts out. I gotta agree with you, it always baffles me just how much people like to hate things and rant all day long at the slightest provocation. Not just with the SC2 and LoL posts these days but with anything really. Apple v anything else, console v pc games, etc. Enjoy what you enjoy people and as long as it's not something at the expense of others then don't go apeshit at other people for liking something. If it's something genuinely deplorable like genocide, people starving to feed the rich and what not then hate and action is warranted. But for something as inconsequential as what game someone likes to play, why bother getting angry at them? You're wasting your own time and effort and now ruining someone else's day too. If you're that passionate about a game then don't pile insults on people who play other games, just continue to enjoy your game and show others how genuinely fun it is for you. Just remember not everyone likes the same things and no one likes having beliefs and opinions shoved down their throat.
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On October 23 2012 08:44 metbull wrote:
I'm completely shocked that Gheed even watched State of the Game.............that podcast is still on? I thought it was retired (thankfully)?
Nope, although the show has had its fair share of potholes along the way. Several week hiatus' altogether, missing key members for extended periods of time (Day[9] was out for what felt like several months), and a level of disorganization that befuddles me to this day. SotG was always my go-to podcast to listen to when working alone (When I finished with any new Penny Arcade Dungeons & Dragons podcasts). I haven't even considered it for a long time, since the whole thing kind of seems like a joke to me. Very few people took it seriously. JP tries a little too hard. Inc, Tyler, and Artosis were the only reasons to tune in any more, and not because the actual "state of the SC2" needed their expert opinion, but because they are pretty funny. I don't know if it has changed much since May, but that's the last time I listened.
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EPT
