• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:05
CET 19:05
KST 03:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !4Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1204 users

LOL vs SC2 and My tweets

Blogs > Deleted User 155124
Post a Reply
Deleted User 155124
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
72 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 13:15:13
October 20 2012 12:13 GMT
#1
**********************************************************************************************************
****The Views expressed herein are not related to the ESL, and is my own violation****
***********************************************************************************************************

So let's talk about the recent Forbes article from Mr. Paul Tassi by bringing out a few points he made and find out how much truth is evident.

"But the winds have shifted, as they often do in this industry, and what once was a thriving game (Starcraft2) and community is now teetering on the edge of irrelevancy."

The word choice of irrelevancy is an interesting one... since it doesn't mean what I 'think' he is trying to say which is: "...is now teetering on the edge of obscurity " might be more 'relevant', but despite his word choice, let's go over the merit of his accusation with some statistics.

This information is taken from: TL Stream Data There was a -2299 user decrease on personal streams out of the total 65,415 total users. Or a 3% decrease in viewer-ship for the month of September.

This doesn't take into consideration the tournaments such as the HyperX cup the MSI Pro Cup the MLG vs Proleague or the ESP Berlin Open.

You can debate how important a 3% loss is, but it is still a decrease, so maybe Mr. Tassi has a point. Let's continue:

"Most notably three big name, Code-S level players (the best in the world), Puzzle, Min and Coca, said they’re leaving Starcraft 2 altogether. ."

Tassi's word flow here is misleading though, surely he must mean Code - S players are the best in the world and not, "three big name, Code S level players the best in the world etc..."

Two... big name Code S level players... Min never actually qualified for Code S, he made it to Code A but lost in the Round of 32 to Yoda in July so he dropped out completely. 3 months later he started playing LOL.

CoCa reached the Ro8 in July 2011 of GSL Code S but after some controversy of match throwing CoCa gave up his Code S spot in November (presumably 2011).

Finally Puzzle: This is a guy that beat Supernova and MMA to make it to the Ro8 in Season 1 GSL 2012. Seems like he was doing well, even won ESV TV Korean Weekly: Season 3 Week 8, but in the end has switched to LOL.

"It’s now the game being played 25% of the time in all Korean internet cafes, thanks to its accessibility from a skill perspective and the fact that it’s free to play"

EDIT: PC Bang Statistics indeed do show that League of Legends is being played almost 25% of the time.

"Despite event organizers’ best efforts, there’s nothing that even comes close to an event as epic as League’s World Finals which had a $2M prize pool funded by Riot Games itself."

There's this little event called WCS... Blizzard itself is funding it.
Data Taken from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=368732
Asia: $127,000 and all trips paid to WCS World Finals(9), and Asia Finals(32).
Europe: $190,000 and all trips paid to WCS World Finals(9), and Europe Finals(32).
North America: $120,000 and all trips paid to WCS World Finals(9), and North America Finals(32).
Oceania: $30,000 and all trips paid to WCS World Finals(2), and Oceania Finals(8).
South America: $45,000 and all trips paid to WCS World Finals (3) and South America Finals(16).
+ 250,000 for the World Championship is: $762,000 in prize money for a single player game... if you want to make a fair comparison of splitting it between four other team-mates, then let's just say its the equivalent of a $762,000 * 5 = $3,810,000 million dollar tournament for a team game.

This is actually a very important point though, Starcraft2 doesn't need huge payouts so it will look more attractive on a balance sheet to investors looking for return on investment (ROI) or for companies that just don't want to dedicate the budget.

"League is a free game with free updates while Starcraft costs $60 "

http://www.saturn.de/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/MultiChannelSearch?storeId=48352&langId=-3&searchProfile=onlineshop&query=STarcraft

It's a German electronics store selling Starcraft2 for 35 euros or 45 dollars, not sure where you are shopping Mr. Tassi, but maybe try Amazon next time?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=starcraft

($35)

The rest of the article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/10/18/starcraft-2-struggles-as-league-of-legends-rises/

Goes over how Starcraft2 for 1v1 just isn't fun for casual players while LOL is, that Riot seems to understand their game and their players, while Blizzard is accused that since they don't have free weekly release cycles that their product implementation strategy of having big expansions with small tweaks is seen as inferior? It's not really important to me that a new unit gets added on a weekly release cycle to Starcraft 2, because the game's depth is enough to keep me wanting more, but that isn't for everyone and that is OK, but it doesn't mean that Starcraft2 is inferior to LOL much like Tennis isn't inferior to Basketball, it's just a different game, for different types of people.

There is the concern however on how a very sparsely researched piece of literature made it to the front of Forbes... the holes in the arguments are huge! I won't claim I am a writer/editor or any master of the English language, but for gods sake... Google... that is all.
________________________________________________________________________________

Will write another blog on Paul Tassi's Update: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/10/19/further-thoughts-on-starcraft-2-and-league-of-legends/

But for now, I want to see the reaction to my thoughts and research done.

Update #1 The tweet in question is here: F*** LOL. Love Starcraft. I am part of the 5%.
Update #2 Minor text updates

*
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
October 20 2012 12:41 GMT
#2
Gamenote

PC Bang Statistics indeed do show that League of Legends is being played almost 25% of the time.
BW sits at #6 with almost 4%, and has been maintaining that percentage for a very long time.
SC2 sits at #20 with less than 1%, way outside Top 10.
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
Deleted User 155124
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
72 Posts
October 20 2012 13:15 GMT
#3
Edited Thanks Jpak
1Dhalism
Profile Joined June 2012
862 Posts
October 20 2012 13:58 GMT
#4
LoL had regional qualifiers as well. Not to mention that the comparison is not about how much progamers earn it's how much money companies are willing to pour into it and the effect big numbers have on observers. Not to mention 35 dollars for the game is still 35 dollars more then 0.
You just really shamelessly spin facts to suit your point.
Scholera
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States166 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 14:14:28
October 20 2012 14:13 GMT
#5
On October 20 2012 22:58 1Dhalism wrote:
LoL had regional qualifiers as well. Not to mention that the comparison is not about how much progamers earn it's how much money companies are willing to pour into it and the effect big numbers have on observers. Not to mention 35 dollars for the game is still 35 dollars more then 0.
You just really shamelessly spin facts to suit your point.



no, the article was awful.. He worded it to make it seem like the three people leaving were MvP, Dongraegu and MC and to a consumer, a $60 game is VERY different from a $35 game. Plus, LoL being easier isnt why more people are playing it, Battle.net 2.0 is just horrible. And it's cos if your friends play lol, you play lol, whereas sc2 is solo without UMS which was the best most thriving casual part of Broodwar and wc3
1Dhalism
Profile Joined June 2012
862 Posts
October 20 2012 14:54 GMT
#6
On October 20 2012 23:13 Scholera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2012 22:58 1Dhalism wrote:
LoL had regional qualifiers as well. Not to mention that the comparison is not about how much progamers earn it's how much money companies are willing to pour into it and the effect big numbers have on observers. Not to mention 35 dollars for the game is still 35 dollars more then 0.
You just really shamelessly spin facts to suit your point.



no, the article was awful.. He worded it to make it seem like the three people leaving were MvP, Dongraegu and MC and to a consumer, a $60 game is VERY different from a $35 game. Plus, LoL being easier isnt why more people are playing it, Battle.net 2.0 is just horrible. And it's cos if your friends play lol, you play lol, whereas sc2 is solo without UMS which was the best most thriving casual part of Broodwar and wc3

i have no doubt original article is rebut-able, just not by manipulating facts to suit your point of view.
And if you think 60 dollar game is very different from 35 dollar game imagine how different 35 dollar game is from a free game. Yea.
Deleted User 155124
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
72 Posts
October 20 2012 15:24 GMT
#7
Going along the warring concept on how much one pays for a game...

The original author Mr Tassi, made an assertion about price points that was 100% incorrect at the time of writing. I wanted to draw attention, to the point that he wanted to draw attention to... so why did I do this?

For me, when reading an article if I spot something that I am almost certain is a falsehood I want to verify this fact for my own sake and if I am proven right I see the author in a very different light.... like maybe he/she doesn't know what they are talking about, or maybe that they are purposefully augmenting truth to suit their needs.

Either reason to me puts the article in a very poor light.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
13:00
Playoffs
MaNa vs ShoWTimELIVE!
Nice vs Creator
WardiTV1623
ComeBackTV 844
TaKeTV 442
IndyStarCraft 264
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 264
ProTech127
UpATreeSC 85
BRAT_OK 79
DivinesiaTV 19
MindelVK 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25399
Sea 3618
Calm 1867
Larva 836
EffOrt 801
Mini 603
Horang2 406
Soma 356
ZerO 306
Snow 199
[ Show more ]
firebathero 179
Sharp 164
Rush 144
hero 139
actioN 95
Hyun 54
JYJ 44
Dewaltoss 34
sorry 33
PianO 32
Mind 26
Aegong 23
scan(afreeca) 14
ggaemo 13
Shine 9
soO 7
Sacsri 6
Mong 6
Dota 2
Gorgc5396
qojqva3719
singsing3462
Dendi1214
Counter-Strike
fl0m485
chrisJcsgo38
Other Games
FrodaN1707
Beastyqt719
crisheroes256
DeMusliM126
KnowMe120
QueenE98
Livibee68
Trikslyr68
Mew2King41
nookyyy 32
ZerO(Twitch)19
OptimusSC21
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 51
• Reevou 2
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 20
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV674
League of Legends
• Nemesis2528
• TFBlade827
Other Games
• Shiphtur253
• imaqtpie27
Upcoming Events
WardiTV 2025
16h 55m
ByuN vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
OSC
19h 55m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 15h
WardiTV 2025
1d 16h
SC Evo League
1d 18h
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
3 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Disclosure: This page contains affiliate marketing links that support TLnet.

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.