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Why progamers should NOT get a Hots Beta key.
Well, this may not be received as constructive because of the title, but please read on for my reasoning and hopefully it clarifies a few things.
Think about it, your a rising talent. You have just started getting serious about a progamer future, but you are not known so you don't get a Hots beta key as a progamer.
Your already one step behind, and you'll keep getting behind until you receive a beta key. The current progamers will always have an edge going in to the new expansion, and Blizzard keep giving out "a edge" to whomever already known.
This will only make new rising stars harder and harder to come by. Korean pro teams get hots before everyone else, which will also make it even harder to be able to someday compete as " a Foreigner vs Korean".
A rising star will have to have to work much, muuuch harder to be able to catch up. Therefore I think it will become less and less known rising progamers.
And we all want ESPORTS to be mainstream yes?
Well current progamers will always be ahead in the new HOTS expansion which will make the decision to be a full time progamer much harder because of the disadvantages of not already being known.
Remember the WOL beta?
If you think back to those days, the first people to get a Beta for the new Starcraft II has had an advantage. People wanted to see, so the first people got not only an advantage for getting to play and learn the game before anyone else, but they also got the "known" advantage.
For example TLO, He was a likeable dude, with access to the beta before anyone else. And because of it, he got known, got to learn the basic's before anyone else and therefore got into a Team.
Not trying to take away any recognition from TLO, as I'm a huge fan and he's extremely skilled. Just trying to make my point as clear as possible. Also not saying this is the ONLY reason he got into a team, I mean of course not, but it gave him a huge advantage going in to ESPORTS.
I still think that PRESS should get a beta invite so they can release videos etc. But Progamers getting a beta key before anyone else makes it so much harder to break into the scene.
And we all want new faces in ESPORTS right?
I hope you enjoyed reading my POV, and come with some constructive criticism and discussion.
As we all just want ESPORTS to grow right?
 
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I don't think the effect is as big as with WoL. With WoL, the entire interface was new, the way units reacted was new, many units were new or changed (compared to BW). The jump from whichever game you played previously to WoL is much, much larger than from WoL to HotS.
We've seen from the HotS tournaments that games often still end up with WoL army compositions. In the end, HotS will mostly just be a large metagame shift and not a whole new game like WoL was. People should be able to adapt to that reasonably well without getting into the beta early.
On the other hand, the advantages of inviting pro players into the beta are plenty. It gives a lot of exposure and it provides Blizzard with a ton of feedback (either automatically gathered or communicated by players) about the balance of the game in HotS, which should provide for a good balance situation when the beta ends and the expansion becomes publicly available.
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Haven't current pros kind of earned the right to be the first ones into the beta? They have already proven that they are some of the best players at the game and just by being that they have done a lot to grow esports. New faces will still come up, some people will still get into the beta. But if you're a progamer and you don't get a beta key and some no name does you are going to think I'm gettin screwed because I was one of the best in the world and now they are letting all these people catch up.
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On September 14 2012 19:39 Rannasha wrote:
On the other hand, the advantages of inviting pro players into the beta are plenty. It gives a lot of exposure and it provides Blizzard with a ton of feedback (either automatically gathered or communicated by players) about the balance of the game in HotS, which should provide for a good balance situation when the beta ends and the expansion becomes publicly available.
I somewhat agree, but inviting more players (masters / GM's / or even diamond) would give the same exposure if not more, more feedback and it wouldn't give the progamers a unfair advantage.
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i think only semi pros will do it, to give themselves an edge when HotS comes out, top pros will play WoL until the release.
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On September 14 2012 19:43 Rudo wrote:
Haven't current pros kind of earned the right to be the first ones into the beta? They have already proven that they are some of the best players at the game and just by being that they have done a lot to grow esports. New faces will still come up, some people will still get into the beta. But if you're a progamer and you don't get a beta key and some no name does you are going to think I'm gettin screwed because I was one of the best in the world and now they are letting all these people catch up.
Well my point exactly was that most (well alot) of the current top Pros was in the WOL beta. Where they got unfair exposure aswell as a better feel for the game earlier.
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On September 14 2012 19:44 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 19:39 Rannasha wrote:
On the other hand, the advantages of inviting pro players into the beta are plenty. It gives a lot of exposure and it provides Blizzard with a ton of feedback (either automatically gathered or communicated by players) about the balance of the game in HotS, which should provide for a good balance situation when the beta ends and the expansion becomes publicly available. I somewhat agree, but inviting more players (masters / GM's / or even diamond) would give the same exposure if not more, more feedback and it wouldn't give the progamers a unfair advantage.
who decides who's an up and comer? who decides the line between pro and semi-pro? they give pro's beta keys because thats how you both balance a game and get good exposure at the same time. No one wants to watch a diamond guy stream HotS, diamond guys don't really know whats balanced and whats not (speaking as one of them ;p) and why. More importantly, the pros get first access because its their living, tourneys have already started switching to a two week old beta, these guys have to be in first or else they will be behind other pros. The up and comers are still just that, they have WoL to make their name and then guess what, beta key will follow ;p
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On September 14 2012 19:45 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 19:43 Rudo wrote:
Haven't current pros kind of earned the right to be the first ones into the beta? They have already proven that they are some of the best players at the game and just by being that they have done a lot to grow esports. New faces will still come up, some people will still get into the beta. But if you're a progamer and you don't get a beta key and some no name does you are going to think I'm gettin screwed because I was one of the best in the world and now they are letting all these people catch up. Well my point exactly was that most (well alot) of the current top Pros was in the WOL beta. Where they got unfair exposure aswell as a better feel for the game earlier.
They got exposure for being good, thats not unfair. There are also plenty of pros who weren't in the beta, or at least weren't famous back then or good and had to earn it. You could argue that BW pros shouldn't be in the beta cause they have 12 years experience, thats unfair. same with WC3 pros..... its stupid.
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On September 14 2012 19:52 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 19:45 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 19:43 Rudo wrote:
Haven't current pros kind of earned the right to be the first ones into the beta? They have already proven that they are some of the best players at the game and just by being that they have done a lot to grow esports. New faces will still come up, some people will still get into the beta. But if you're a progamer and you don't get a beta key and some no name does you are going to think I'm gettin screwed because I was one of the best in the world and now they are letting all these people catch up. Well my point exactly was that most (well alot) of the current top Pros was in the WOL beta. Where they got unfair exposure aswell as a better feel for the game earlier. They got exposure for being good, thats not unfair. There are also plenty of pros who weren't in the beta, or at least weren't famous back then or good and had to earn it. You could argue that BW pros shouldn't be in the beta cause they have 12 years experience, thats unfair. same with WC3 pros..... its stupid.
Well, Would they be top tier players if they weren't in the first beta? If someone else got the same opportunity, would he/she be a current top tier player?
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On September 14 2012 19:59 Inori wrote:
OP has a point, off the top of my head I can name more than five pro gamers that today are mediocre compared to others, but are riding their beta success wave (in terms of sponsorships and stream viewers, not tournament wins).
Yeah, as English isn't my native language I'm not good at expressing what I mean, but you put it very good
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On September 14 2012 19:57 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 19:52 emythrel wrote:On September 14 2012 19:45 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 19:43 Rudo wrote:
Haven't current pros kind of earned the right to be the first ones into the beta? They have already proven that they are some of the best players at the game and just by being that they have done a lot to grow esports. New faces will still come up, some people will still get into the beta. But if you're a progamer and you don't get a beta key and some no name does you are going to think I'm gettin screwed because I was one of the best in the world and now they are letting all these people catch up. Well my point exactly was that most (well alot) of the current top Pros was in the WOL beta. Where they got unfair exposure aswell as a better feel for the game earlier. They got exposure for being good, thats not unfair. There are also plenty of pros who weren't in the beta, or at least weren't famous back then or good and had to earn it. You could argue that BW pros shouldn't be in the beta cause they have 12 years experience, thats unfair. same with WC3 pros..... its stupid. Well, Would they be top tier players if they weren't in the first beta? If someone else got the same opportunity, would he/she be a current top tier player?
It would not take them that long, Look at Flash, he just qualified for code a the other day after playing for what 5/6 months and rain (the kespa player) made it out of his code S round of 32 group. So yes they can be really good even without the beta, the best players will emerge regardless of if they get in the beta or not.
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On September 14 2012 20:09 Rudo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 19:57 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 19:52 emythrel wrote:On September 14 2012 19:45 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 19:43 Rudo wrote:
Haven't current pros kind of earned the right to be the first ones into the beta? They have already proven that they are some of the best players at the game and just by being that they have done a lot to grow esports. New faces will still come up, some people will still get into the beta. But if you're a progamer and you don't get a beta key and some no name does you are going to think I'm gettin screwed because I was one of the best in the world and now they are letting all these people catch up. Well my point exactly was that most (well alot) of the current top Pros was in the WOL beta. Where they got unfair exposure aswell as a better feel for the game earlier. They got exposure for being good, thats not unfair. There are also plenty of pros who weren't in the beta, or at least weren't famous back then or good and had to earn it. You could argue that BW pros shouldn't be in the beta cause they have 12 years experience, thats unfair. same with WC3 pros..... its stupid. Well, Would they be top tier players if they weren't in the first beta? If someone else got the same opportunity, would he/she be a current top tier player? It would not take them that long, Look at Flash, he just qualified for code a the other day after playing for what 5/6 months and rain (the kespa player) made it out of his code S round of 32 group. So yes they can be really good even without the beta, the best players will emerge regardless of if they get in the beta or not.
Well Flash is a pretty bad example imo, as he is god.
Kidding aside, He's been the best RTS player ever to lay hands on Starcraft. with personal coaches and all the help he wants from the best players currently in the world
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Think of it as an investment. The pros, by playing HotS now, are sacrificing current performance for future results. In addition, they are going through a lot of trouble making strategies that everyone else will just copy (or get patched out). Furthermore, only near the end of the beta will their practice with HotS be anywhere near to relevant when it finally comes out of beta.
What all this means is, it's really not as unfair as you would think.
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Starcraft 2 is not a hard game, so saying a new player can't become known just because they don't have a beta key is kind of silly. Besides, everything is subject to change in the beta so it's not all that needed..
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On September 14 2012 20:20 BgSBendeR wrote:
Starcraft 2 is not a hard game, so saying he a new player can't become known just because they don't have a beta key is kind of silly. Besides, everything is subject to change in the beta so it's not all that needed..
Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that players with a Beta get a unfair advantage against rising players. And I'm not talking about myself? and I'm not saying people wont get known for because of no access. Just saying that it's harder, not impossible.
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On September 14 2012 20:24 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:20 BgSBendeR wrote:
Starcraft 2 is not a hard game, so saying he a new player can't become known just because they don't have a beta key is kind of silly. Besides, everything is subject to change in the beta so it's not all that needed.. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that players with a Beta get a unfair advantage against rising players. And I'm not talking about myself? and I'm not saying people wont get known for because of no access. Just saying that it's harder, not impossible.
How exactly is it harder for them...? Everything in the beta is subject to change. Having a beta key for HOTS literally has 0 benefits at this stage. Anything can change.. When the beta nears it's end and things become more stable, then it will actually matter.. but I'm sure by that time there will be a lot more people with a beta key. So you're entire post is kind of irrelevant.
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On September 14 2012 20:27 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:24 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:20 BgSBendeR wrote:
Starcraft 2 is not a hard game, so saying he a new player can't become known just because they don't have a beta key is kind of silly. Besides, everything is subject to change in the beta so it's not all that needed.. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that players with a Beta get a unfair advantage against rising players. And I'm not talking about myself? and I'm not saying people wont get known for because of no access. Just saying that it's harder, not impossible. How exactly is it harder for them...? Everything in the beta is subject to change. Having a beta key for HOTS literally has 0 benefits at this stage. Anything can change.. When the beta nears it's end and things become more stable, then it will actually matter.. but I'm sure by that time there will be a lot more people with a beta key. So you're entire post is kind of irrelevant.
As I said in the OP, Exposure is Key in breaking out in the ESPORTS scene. And with a faster beta key, you get more exposure
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On September 14 2012 20:30 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On September 14 2012 20:24 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:20 BgSBendeR wrote:
Starcraft 2 is not a hard game, so saying he a new player can't become known just because they don't have a beta key is kind of silly. Besides, everything is subject to change in the beta so it's not all that needed.. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that players with a Beta get a unfair advantage against rising players. And I'm not talking about myself? and I'm not saying people wont get known for because of no access. Just saying that it's harder, not impossible. How exactly is it harder for them...? Everything in the beta is subject to change. Having a beta key for HOTS literally has 0 benefits at this stage. Anything can change.. When the beta nears it's end and things become more stable, then it will actually matter.. but I'm sure by that time there will be a lot more people with a beta key. So you're entire post is kind of irrelevant. As I said in the OP, Exposure is Key in breaking out in the ESPORTS scene. And with a faster beta key, you get more exposure
Sorry that's a complete lie lol............................................... Like I said, a beta key at this stage is irrelevant.
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On September 14 2012 20:33 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:30 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On September 14 2012 20:24 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:20 BgSBendeR wrote:
Starcraft 2 is not a hard game, so saying he a new player can't become known just because they don't have a beta key is kind of silly. Besides, everything is subject to change in the beta so it's not all that needed.. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that players with a Beta get a unfair advantage against rising players. And I'm not talking about myself? and I'm not saying people wont get known for because of no access. Just saying that it's harder, not impossible. How exactly is it harder for them...? Everything in the beta is subject to change. Having a beta key for HOTS literally has 0 benefits at this stage. Anything can change.. When the beta nears it's end and things become more stable, then it will actually matter.. but I'm sure by that time there will be a lot more people with a beta key. So you're entire post is kind of irrelevant. As I said in the OP, Exposure is Key in breaking out in the ESPORTS scene. And with a faster beta key, you get more exposure Sorry that's a complete lie lol............................................... Like I said, a beta key at this stage is irrelevant.
What's a complete lie? That Exposure is key? lol, I'm starting to think that this discussion is going nowhere.
Exposure = fans, sponsors, teams and decent practice partners. and you don't think getting in the beta gives you exposure?
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On September 14 2012 20:38 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:33 BgSBendeR wrote:On September 14 2012 20:30 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On September 14 2012 20:24 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:20 BgSBendeR wrote:
Starcraft 2 is not a hard game, so saying he a new player can't become known just because they don't have a beta key is kind of silly. Besides, everything is subject to change in the beta so it's not all that needed.. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that players with a Beta get a unfair advantage against rising players. And I'm not talking about myself? and I'm not saying people wont get known for because of no access. Just saying that it's harder, not impossible. How exactly is it harder for them...? Everything in the beta is subject to change. Having a beta key for HOTS literally has 0 benefits at this stage. Anything can change.. When the beta nears it's end and things become more stable, then it will actually matter.. but I'm sure by that time there will be a lot more people with a beta key. So you're entire post is kind of irrelevant. As I said in the OP, Exposure is Key in breaking out in the ESPORTS scene. And with a faster beta key, you get more exposure Sorry that's a complete lie lol............................................... Like I said, a beta key at this stage is irrelevant. What's a complete lie? That Exposure is key? lol, I'm starting to think that this discussion is going nowhere. Exposure = fans, sponsors, teams and decent practice partners. and you don't think getting in the beta gives you exposure?
Nope, getting a beta invite at this stage won't give you much if any exposure at all.. No one gives a fuck about someone who won a bunch of games on beta while everything is getting tweaked, When the beta nears it's end and everything is more stable/balanced, THEN it will slightly matter..
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On September 14 2012 20:45 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:38 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:33 BgSBendeR wrote:On September 14 2012 20:30 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On September 14 2012 20:24 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On September 14 2012 20:20 BgSBendeR wrote:
Starcraft 2 is not a hard game, so saying he a new player can't become known just because they don't have a beta key is kind of silly. Besides, everything is subject to change in the beta so it's not all that needed.. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that players with a Beta get a unfair advantage against rising players. And I'm not talking about myself? and I'm not saying people wont get known for because of no access. Just saying that it's harder, not impossible. How exactly is it harder for them...? Everything in the beta is subject to change. Having a beta key for HOTS literally has 0 benefits at this stage. Anything can change.. When the beta nears it's end and things become more stable, then it will actually matter.. but I'm sure by that time there will be a lot more people with a beta key. So you're entire post is kind of irrelevant. As I said in the OP, Exposure is Key in breaking out in the ESPORTS scene. And with a faster beta key, you get more exposure Sorry that's a complete lie lol............................................... Like I said, a beta key at this stage is irrelevant. What's a complete lie? That Exposure is key? lol, I'm starting to think that this discussion is going nowhere. Exposure = fans, sponsors, teams and decent practice partners. and you don't think getting in the beta gives you exposure? Nope, getting a beta invite at this stage won't give you much if any exposure at all.. No one gives a fuck about someone who won a bunch of games on beta while everything is getting tweaked, When the beta nears it's end and everything is more stable/balanced, THEN it will slightly matter..
Well, personally since HOTS came out. I've only watched HOTS streams for example. And I'm sure many people do the same. Which equals to more Exposure. But anyways. Your opinion vs mine, and I'm sure either one of us wont quit. So this discussion is going nowhere.
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I think its something that we have to do. We can't expect balance if NO pros play it, that would just be us derping around while the pros facepalm about balance issues.
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On September 14 2012 21:58 docvoc wrote:
I think its something that we have to do. We can't expect balance if NO pros play it, that would just be us derping around while the pros facepalm about balance issues.
Well a solution would be to invite more in the first batch so Progamers wasn't the only ones getting in first. So the advantage would not be as big.
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OP you have no point at all, they are progamers fro a reason
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On September 14 2012 22:05 John Madden wrote:
OP you have no point at all, they are progamers fro a reason
What?
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I see your point, but if you deny progamers access to the beta you are just discriminating them instead of discriminating the unknown players. In the end it's more important for the current progamers to play the beta than the aspiring ones, because the real deal actually depends on the game money wise.
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I think you're overrating the "exposure" gotten from beta access, this industry is already established. Imo the "majority" would rather watch a seasoned veteran play the beta compared to a no namer. It is better for the pro gamers to get access first because their feedback is the most valued, they are the people whose careers hinge on this game. If we were to make a pros and cons list comparing; giving progamers beta keys, to giving everyone else it would definitely favor the pro side.
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Progamers have much more valuable feedback, which makes your entire argument pretty much irrelevant. The point of the beta is to test balance and test for bugs
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Do you want to balance the game quickly or not? That's what the beta is for. Seeing pros play is the best way to balancing.
And there's still plenty of people who'll get into the beta apart from pros. And if you're good, those few months shouldn't have an impact.
It mattered a lot more at WoL though, since you had to get used to the mechanics too, but now with HotS, the only thing that chances are strategies, which can be learned without even touching the game, so only the refine part is missing, which shouldn't take that long once you're able to play.
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On September 14 2012 19:34 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
And we all want ESPORTS to be mainstream yes?
No.
On September 14 2012 19:34 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
Remember the WOL beta?
No.
On September 14 2012 19:34 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
As we all just want ESPORTS to grow right?
No.
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A lot of pros are already back to streaming WoL because most tournaments are still in that and they need to keep practicing it. But if you're just trying to make it, after you finally do get a beta key, you'll be able to devote full time to HotS because WoL tournaments are irrelevant to you.
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Rising stars in any field are often so amazing and so respected partly because their paths are so goddamn hard. Everything has entry barriers; I'm sure SC2 is no exception. Everything has an established elite. A rising star becomes a champion, becomes a hero, becomes loved, only after beating those odds through sheer hard work and talent.
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Canada11439 Posts
On September 14 2012 22:54 QuanticHawk wrote:
Progamers have much more valuable feedback, which makes your entire argument pretty much irrelevant. The point of the beta is to test balance and test for bugs
Pretty much this. I don't really care if tourney results are a little skewed for a couple months until everyone else can catch back up. I care about getting the best game possible and pro's are going to have the best feedback for that. Temporary sacrifice for the long term future of the game.
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EPT
