Played HOTS beta most of the night last night and I'm going to share some of my initial thoughts since I also played a fair amount in Anaheim back during MLG in June. In general the gameplay felt very nice, what the heck is up with some of these options though? Auto worker mining? Showing how many workers I need for full saturation? Why don't my scvs just make automatically and my units micro automatically as well?
New units:
Widow mine
Everything about the widow mine is what I want in a new unit, they are such a simple unit that does so much. It's a positional/static unit that can provide map vision/control, it can be used to defend drops and banshees as well as an offensive tool with your army. I experimented one game trying a widow mine drop opening but it seemed really ineffective, the splash damage seems quite small but its direct damage is insane, 1 shotting banshees/stalkers etc. The widow mine is just so fun to use with other units and stuff its by far the best new unit in the game for me. We need more units that work and mesh well with other units and the widow mine does this very well. In Broodwar there were tons of unit combinations that were so dynamic and worked so well with each other and were two separate units but in combination became so deadly and were so fun to play with, Defilers + Lurkers, Shuttle + Reaver, Tanks + anything, the widow mine with mech gives you this unit dynamic that has really been lacking in WoL thus far and is a lasting unit that is great for spectators as well as players.
Warhound
I don't know why I'm ever going to make tanks again, I can get a stronger, more mobile, cheaper unit which costs less supply and builds faster. The whole reason you made tanks in broodwar were for their insane range and damage and because goliaths sucked vs ground (in general) warhounds are so good vs ground I find myself feeling tanks are slow useless cost too much and are annoying now. Warhound combinations with almost any other mech or bio terran unit seemed super powerful. I played vs lastshadow last night and he went warhound + marine and warhound + marauder combos which seemed really good vs my more tank heavy pure mech combination. Vs zerg warhounds are insane too, roaches seem like utter shit vs them, as long as terran takes care of the anti air weakness (maybe go mass marine + warhound?) warhound deathballs seem unkillable. The big problem with the warhound though is the unit is just a pure 1a unit with no upgrades or anything. This unit is great but its really not too fun to play with and doesn’t have much room for any micro potential or interesting stuff.
Battle Hellions
My stance on battle hellions has been the same since day 1 of the alpha, still super good vs chargelots, lings, fairly fun to play with in general and add a nice dynamic to a terran mech army. They're like beefy firebats which is pretty much exactly what blizzard intended them for I think. There was one game last night where I was getting ling bane allined and I had literally just 4 battle hellions kill 40-50 lings and then I split them and banes did hardly any damage. One thing I hope blizzard changes is treat battle hellions differently than hellions in standard mode. When I left click battle hellions I only want to select my battle hellions not all hellions on the map. In broodwar tanks in siege mode vs tanks not sieged were treated as separate units and I want battle hellions to behave the same way.
Swarm Host
Feels like a lurker but not. Locusts also have an upgrade so they last longer which seems like an upgrade everyone will get by default 100% of the time. (just like pathogen glands I guess) Swarm hosts seemed really strong in general but I can't help but constantly wish they were just lurkers. They still serve a pretty nice positional based role which WoL desperately lacks, they’re good siege/positional units that work well with other units and for controlling areas on the map. Even though it’s not the lurker the swarm host is still pretty fun to play with and really feels alot like a lurker at the end of the day. Locusts are pretty interesting as well although I really don't think we needed more units that spawn free units. (broodlords weren’t enough?) I feel like if you turned the swarm host into some sort of reaver type thing and made locusts cost 15 or 25 but made them way more powerful (like scarabs in broodwar) this unit would be infinitely more interesting and demand way more respect/map presence. Swarm Host really feels like it should be that tier 2 domination unit that’s really expensive but kicks ass and it feels like it falls just a little short of that right now. Without support and other units they just get totally wrecked even by basic stalker/zealot forces. Swarm hosts need to demand a little more respect in my opinion…
Viper
Haven't had a chance to play with this much, I assume its still how it was in alpha even though I haven’t seen or played much with it yet. Definitely has a lot of potential and is a fun unit to play with at first glance.
Protoss I haven't played with at all yet, from what some people are saying it's the most boring of the three races right now at least in terms of new stuff added. The oracle still seems like a really cool/fun unit, the only thing I don't really like with the mineral lockdown shit is it's just like the crappy static stale WoL abilities like forcefield and fungal, abilities that aren't fun to watch pull off just "Oh he placed some forcefields” or "oh he didn't forcefield/fungal" maybe make it somehow take more skill to lockdown an entire mineral line or somehow make it better but harder to use. Or make it more fluid, abilities in general I think are more fun for spectators when there is more fluidity to how they are casted. Plague/Ensnare in broodwar kept the units in motion so the other player could react or at least try to mitigate the damage, the oracle stuff on mineral lines is just another “oh he casted it” static type thing that is cool in theory but not a lasting thing that is fun to watch or execute time after time.
Conclusion:
In general I was going mech most of my early games in all matchups, widow mine drop opening is a terrible build although it seems good in theory. The splash just doesn't seem to do enough to kill scvs in big numbers unless they stack everything and take 2 mine shots or something. Warhounds seem good vs everything in every situation. Any time I was making warhounds I was winning games easily. Terran is really fun to play, mech is the future, a huge part that makes mech going fun now is its more mobile (which sort of feels strange and is completely different than broodwar mech) also when you don't have to make siege tanks anymore its easier to go mech, never get caught unsieged again should be the warhounds slogan because it's really just a 1a unit. Goliths were the same way in broodwar except the big difference now is warhounds trash everything on the ground. If your going to have a unit trash everything with 1a either make it expensive and hard to get alot of (sort of like thor?) or change it to make it take some sort of skill to use. Warhound is a great unit but its just so damn easy to use it's not fun. Widow mines on the other hand are hard to use well and so fun to play with.
Feel like I'm sort of rambling now and saying things I've already said three times over, all in all hots is pretty fun with some really new interesting stuff, but also standard cookie cutter boring stuff that quickly could lead to becoming stale once the game gets figured out.
On September 06 2012 01:49 rei wrote: i got the beta, fun times, launch for a ranked ladder match, first guy i met 6pooled me. uninstalled.
lol'ed by if its true then you sir are a piece of shit.
Thanks for the information Lucky, so far I've seen/heard nothing but Zerg and saw how the Viper is going to completly change the game for Zerg but had no information about Terran untill now. All in all I think its going to be a great update for SC2 when its released and tweaked out. One thing I hope that doesn't happen is that a major tournament picks up HoTs too early, maybe if it gets some updates and goes open but not for a while.
Thanks for insight for plp who dont have the beta right now. I think the community should be more vocal on these static abilities like you mentioned. If units are fungaled, we should still be able to move them even if they were 95% slowed down, so we still have a chance to mitigate splash damage and i think the mineral lock down is still a good ability but its redundant because we have the other static abilities like fungal and forcefield.
Nice thoughts about the swarmhost - I think the exact same. It just felt underwhelming. I hope Blizzard bucks up and gives Zerg the "tier 2 domination unit" they deserve.
From what i've seen in streams, the Warhound is just a Colossus with no AoE. You amove, his shit takes lots of damage, period. Really not interesting at all.
Plus, mech being more mobile also feels pretty silly.
The warhound is the dumbest unit I've ever seen. i've lost all hope in blizzard for creating a mechanized version of the marauder. Like the other blog said, blizzard does not understand what mech really is.
On September 06 2012 01:49 rei wrote: i got the beta, fun times, launch for a ranked ladder match, first guy i met 6pooled me. uninstalled.
Hahahhahahaha okay thats just way too funny
5/5 on the blog though.. I'm loving the look of the mine (no beta key for me though ). Agreed its just what WOL needed. However I'd like to see the timer back. It feels just a little bit too much like the spider mine at the moment. 10 seconds is waaaay too long. I'd like to see a 2 second timer or something. Just enough to micro away the damage if you get stuck and notice it instantaneously. And obv buff the damage at the same time.
Interesting blog, especially about static spells. Perhaps the oracle should freeze minerals in a cone effect? That way there would be some skill in positioning where you cast from, and skill in positioning turrets? Or maybe make it cost half as much, but require 2 casts to get an entire mineral line, and have it cast in a click/drag(directional) style, similar to some HoN spells...
As for the Warhound... I can't decide if I'm happy Terran finally has a true 1A unit, or sad... It shouldn't be something I worry about, but I do worry that going mech will be looked down upon as a lol newb build, similar to 6queen 70 drone zergs, or 2base colossus protoss, or 1-1-1 Terran... We'll see
Also from what I've seen, the Swarm Host is either garbage or people don't know how to use it yet. edit* Swarm Host might be good vs P?
Watching TLO's stream this morning he was playing some Beta. In a match vs Cytoplasm (I think) TLO and him were experimenting with the locust damage. 6 (un-upgraded) of them wrecked a 1-1 thor. Both players thought that their damage was insanely high.
TLO did some neat stuff with the Viper's pull ability (no idea what its called). Playing a ZvP he would grab the warp prism as it was warping units in and yank it away.
On September 06 2012 02:10 Teoita wrote: From what i've seen in streams, the Warhound is just a Colossus with no AoE. You amove, his shit takes lots of damage, period. Really not interesting at all.
Plus, mech being more mobile also feels pretty silly.
it's even worse, the colossi need support, warhound is a core unit.
On September 06 2012 03:08 LuckyFool wrote: the UI changes will help diamond and below players possibly but not make much of an impact at pro level in my opinion.
Do you think pros should have them enabled, like during GSL or something?
On September 06 2012 03:08 LuckyFool wrote: the UI changes will help diamond and below players possibly but not make much of an impact at pro level in my opinion.
Do you think pros should have them enabled, like during GSL or something?
I honestly don't think it will make any difference. So why bother with unnecessary rules.
On September 06 2012 03:08 LuckyFool wrote: the UI changes will help diamond and below players possibly but not make much of an impact at pro level in my opinion.
Do you think pros should have them enabled, like during GSL or something?
I definitely think there should be a way to turn it off or like have it so you see it when you click on the building. because i think they look ugly as hell. Like if you click on the CC, hatch, nexus etc you can see the information in the little box that tells u what it is and how many hit points etc.
On the contrary, Swarm Hosts seem at the very least borderline overpowered. 2 locusts every 18 seconds of real time per swarm host, and AFAIK, for 12 locusts, 10 roaches would be an easy fight.
I see people doing or taking crippling damage, but being unable to deal with swarmhost blobs because lings, roaches, hydras, zealots etc just dont really work at all, and are you really going to use banelings against free units that can be split?
To quote from the beta thread:
Swarm hosts are very strong: - Cost 200/100/3 supply, build time 40 sec (less than infestor), require only the Infestation Pit - Have locust life time upgrade (costs 200/200) which makes locust life time equal to spawn cooldown - Locust DPS is crazy (no longer able to attack air though) - Swarm host/Infestor/Corruptor armies are very very strong - ZvZ is swarm host wars
With the way zerg is played, from the beta streams, it doesnt seem uncommon at all for a zerg to just pop 10-20 swarm hosts, and then you have 20-40 locusts per 18 real time seconds that have double the DPS of a stimmed marine and 20 more hp, while also having 2 base armor.
10 Hydralisks will get annihilated by a single wave of Locusts from 5 swarm hosts with equal cost, and the strengh is not at all in the initial wave, it is in the fact that you can get like 5-10 waves of locusts out uncontested and then simply leave, because you can amove them from quite literally halfway across the map, or further if you drop creep with overlords to speed up your locusts.
"This unit is really strong" - Stephano
Kiwikaki called it overpowered earlier, but im not sure of the exact quote. Stephano one is word for word.
On September 06 2012 01:49 rei wrote: i got the beta, fun times, launch for a ranked ladder match, first guy i met 6pooled me. uninstalled.
If I end up getting in im not going to install it at all, beat that!
Is interesting to know abotu the new units though, and protoss being the most boring race doesnt shock me, the oracle or whatever just doesnt look like a fun unit imo
I have one question so far about the expansion. What happened to the proposed new queen model? It was in the june 2012 build, but now its gone... anybody know why?
On September 06 2012 04:46 cLAN.Anax wrote: ThorZaIN got 4-gated at least once last night. Can't believe some people would do that.... '>_>
You say "Widow Mine drop build." Does that mean WMs can be loaded into a Medivac?
Why? it's nice to see how some new early game things deal with good old all ins, like reactor hellions vs 4gate :p
I mean it's one thing to have a practice partner test out new HotS builds vs all-ins, it's another to meet a random guy on ladder who doesn't want to try new units at all and just wants cheap wins in queue.
On September 06 2012 04:46 cLAN.Anax wrote: ThorZaIN got 4-gated at least once last night. Can't believe some people would do that.... '>_>
You say "Widow Mine drop build." Does that mean WMs can be loaded into a Medivac?
Why? it's nice to see how some new early game things deal with good old all ins, like reactor hellions vs 4gate :p
I mean it's one thing to have a practice partner test out new HotS builds vs all-ins, it's another to meet a random guy on ladder who doesn't want to try new units at all and just wants cheap wins in queue.
if everyone do that yeah it'd be a problem but since it should be a few ppl, probably less than on the current ladder :D
I feel like blizzard added in a bunch of A units that seem very one dimensional at first. Ilike the warhound, 1a2a3a the tempest 1a2a3a the oracle is just 1a
I feel like a lot of the units that they added in are pretty boring
The contrast would be the new hellions, those units have lots of versatility and different unit pairings that could added to the game.
Thinking about the tanks becoming obsolete feels so odd to me, but it seems like thats were the game is heading.
On September 06 2012 05:03 Burns wrote: I feel like blizzard added in a bunch of A units that seem very one dimensional at first. Ilike the warhound, 1a2a3a the tempest 1a2a3a the oracle is just 1a
I feel like a lot of the units that they added in are pretty boring
The contrast would be the new hellions, those units have lots of versatility and different unit pairings that could added to the game.
Thinking about the tanks becoming obsolete feels so odd to me, but it seems like thats were the game is heading.
have you watched streams yet? tempests are kiting units not 1a units.
My impressions are the same. As a protoss i like the oracle, some of the abilities are interesting and it's nice to have another useful scouting unit.
In PvT do feel the warhound is in for a big change though. They buffer marines as though you were fighting roach hydra in pvt, and end game since you do not need medivacs, you can just mass vikings, warhounds, and then marines or battle helions or whatever floats your boat. Enough vikings and tempests/collsus can't deal, templar aren't the best choice (they don't often reach the delicate parts of the deathball or do enough damage ie storming roaches), and warhounds, like you said, seem to own anything on the ground (with a little battle helion or marine support, immortals get owned pretty hard too (maybe this would be different if they weren't so mobile, and immortals could micro a little better.) I am scared to think what appens if you get the chance to use emp somewhere in there :/
PvZ is fun and interesting so far,
pvp feels a bit the same, but without the pylon ramp stuff 4 gates are even less common, and the mothership core (despite it being a slightly too weak for my taste) does seem to incline alot of people to at least take it to 2 base in PvP
On September 06 2012 05:03 Burns wrote: I feel like blizzard added in a bunch of A units that seem very one dimensional at first. Ilike the warhound, 1a2a3a the tempest 1a2a3a the oracle is just 1a
I feel like a lot of the units that they added in are pretty boring
The contrast would be the new hellions, those units have lots of versatility and different unit pairings that could added to the game.
Thinking about the tanks becoming obsolete feels so odd to me, but it seems like thats were the game is heading.
have you watched streams yet? tempests are kiting units not 1a units.
it's the equivalent of fighting slow zerglings with hellions. when you have that much range it's fairly easy to kite.
lol at the number of scv/probes/drone mining on the CC/nexus/hatch, making things far too easy for noobs and punishing good management. (since even at a mid-high master level there are some huge flaws in regard of this problem...)
On September 06 2012 05:03 Burns wrote: I feel like blizzard added in a bunch of A units that seem very one dimensional at first. Ilike the warhound, 1a2a3a the tempest 1a2a3a the oracle is just 1a
I feel like a lot of the units that they added in are pretty boring
The contrast would be the new hellions, those units have lots of versatility and different unit pairings that could added to the game.
Thinking about the tanks becoming obsolete feels so odd to me, but it seems like thats were the game is heading.
have you watched streams yet? tempests are kiting units not 1a units.
On September 06 2012 05:03 Burns wrote: I feel like blizzard added in a bunch of A units that seem very one dimensional at first. Ilike the warhound, 1a2a3a the tempest 1a2a3a the oracle is just 1a
I feel like a lot of the units that they added in are pretty boring
The contrast would be the new hellions, those units have lots of versatility and different unit pairings that could added to the game.
Thinking about the tanks becoming obsolete feels so odd to me, but it seems like thats were the game is heading.
have you watched streams yet? tempests are kiting units not 1a units.
With 22 range?
You need to kite?
I'm picturing David Kim in an interview saying "we felt like the Colossus was too hard to use for lower league players, requiring too much positioning and even a supporting army for it. So we gave the tempest 22 range, now you can park it in a random corner of the map and it's going to shoot everything without you having to do anything at all".
Hmmm I wont go back to SC2 unless I hear only positive reviews and seeing Blizz heading to the right direction. Currently, its just the same old stuff, just rehashed. Nothing good enough to pull me back in.
Not sure why everyone has such a problem with 1 a units, I mean I understand the fundamental problem behind it if you arguing for a skill based game..... but most of the units in the game are 1 A units, its nothing new. You will micro a warhound exactly like non-blink stalkers, hydras, roaches, colossus.... and if you arguing for a a non micro'd scenerio 1a, you could say that zealots, lings, mutas, banshees, and every other unit without an ability is "1a"
The whole argument of 1a being bad is flawed for me, especially since its one of terrans only units without a special ability to make it more effective, yet both other races have several non ability "1a" units.
disclaimer: Im not arguing that stim is hard to do or anything, or that you wont use movement/surround micro on said "1a". I am just saying that its no different than most units in the game right now and if you are arguing it shouldnt exist, then there are a few units in the game that shouldnt exist also.
On September 06 2012 10:24 phosphorylation wrote: lol baiscally all the new units are meh except for the ones that are derived from broodwar ("mine" and "lurkers") no surprise there...
Yes, clearly anything not from Brood War is bad.
With that logic, I think they should replace Phoenixes with Scouts. Clearly since BW units > SC2 units, everyone will be in favor of this obvious "upgrade".
On September 06 2012 11:00 Rotodyne wrote: I don't play much SC2 anymore, but if mineral lockdown thing makes it into the game, I will not be buying it.
The unit itself is actually kind of cute and nifty in a nifty little way, if that makes any sense to you. Pretty fun to use, and it's like having a semi maphack o.o
On September 06 2012 11:00 Rotodyne wrote: I don't play much SC2 anymore, but if mineral lockdown thing makes it into the game, I will not be buying it.
The unit itself is actually kind of cute and nifty in a nifty little way, if that makes any sense to you. Pretty fun to use, and it's like having a semi maphack o.o
Observers... Anyway I like hots so far from what I've seen but I didn't get in. Why didn't they just give grandmasters and highmasters beta keys and forget about everyone else ?
On September 06 2012 11:00 Rotodyne wrote: I don't play much SC2 anymore, but if mineral lockdown thing makes it into the game, I will not be buying it.
The unit itself is actually kind of cute and nifty in a nifty little way, if that makes any sense to you. Pretty fun to use, and it's like having a semi maphack o.o
I can see it being fun to use, but it doesn't look like fun to play against :[ I could be wrong.
On September 06 2012 10:24 phosphorylation wrote: lol baiscally all the new units are meh except for the ones that are derived from broodwar ("mine" and "lurkers") no surprise there...
Yes, clearly anything not from Brood War is bad.
With that logic, I think they should replace Phoenixes with Scouts. Clearly since BW units > SC2 units, everyone will be in favor of this obvious "upgrade".
The funny thing is that you being sarcasm is kinda sad because everything you are saying is true, BW > SC2 units :-D
so far the craziest loss I've had was to a 1 base mothership core recall in my main, he built it right when his core finished and sent it straight across the map while containing me with stalker/sentry. It took 5 minutes or so for it to make it to my base and then he recalled everything in my main, I instantly lost lol.
also did I mention Warhounds are WAY too good, WAYYYYYYYYYYY to good. You can't do anything else in TvT currently and honestly I'm doing just 1 build marine warhound medivac and autowinning 95% of games with the first push.
On September 06 2012 11:40 LuckyFool wrote: so far the craziest loss I've had was to a 1 base mothership core recall in my main, he built it right when his core finished and sent it straight across the map while containing me with stalker/sentry. It took 5 minutes or so for it to make it to my base and then he recalled everything in my main, I instantly lost lol.
also did I mention Warhounds are WAY too good, WAYYYYYYYYYYY to good. You can't do anything else in TvT currently and honestly I'm doing just 1 build marine warhound medivac and autowinning 95% of games with the first push.
Wait isn't Warhounds a replica of Goliath? Strong vs Air and Weak vs Ground. What's stopping the opposition from just massing Hydralisks and Zealots? And can't the Tanks outrange them and since this is StaRcraft 2 we are talking about, units clumbing is a bitch to deal and thus the whole combosition would simply fall to them?
On September 06 2012 11:40 LuckyFool wrote: so far the craziest loss I've had was to a 1 base mothership core recall in my main, he built it right when his core finished and sent it straight across the map while containing me with stalker/sentry. It took 5 minutes or so for it to make it to my base and then he recalled everything in my main, I instantly lost lol.
also did I mention Warhounds are WAY too good, WAYYYYYYYYYYY to good. You can't do anything else in TvT currently and honestly I'm doing just 1 build marine warhound medivac and autowinning 95% of games with the first push.
Wait isn't Warhounds a replica of Goliath? Strong vs Air and Weak vs Ground. What's stopping the opposition from just massing Hydralisks and Zealots? And can't the Tanks outrange them and since this is StaRcraft 2 we are talking about, units clumbing is a bitch to deal and thus the whole combosition would simply fall to them?
I fail to see its opness.
They changed it to a mechanical super-marauder. 150/75 for 7 range, a crapton of hp and damage, and special attack vs mechanical.
i don't get why people are bull shiting about the auto mine. Seriously if you want a harder game ask for a manually put worker to mine change just like we had in BW...yeah i didn't think so, see my point?
On September 06 2012 11:58 LuckyFool wrote: can people without beta keys watch replays at least if they download the client? I wanna post a rep pack, some pretty epic games lol.
I think they can. Even if you don't post the reppack. I can learn from your shenanigans.
On September 06 2012 11:40 LuckyFool wrote: so far the craziest loss I've had was to a 1 base mothership core recall in my main, he built it right when his core finished and sent it straight across the map while containing me with stalker/sentry. It took 5 minutes or so for it to make it to my base and then he recalled everything in my main, I instantly lost lol.
also did I mention Warhounds are WAY too good, WAYYYYYYYYYYY to good. You can't do anything else in TvT currently and honestly I'm doing just 1 build marine warhound medivac and autowinning 95% of games with the first push.
On September 06 2012 11:40 LuckyFool wrote: so far the craziest loss I've had was to a 1 base mothership core recall in my main, he built it right when his core finished and sent it straight across the map while containing me with stalker/sentry. It took 5 minutes or so for it to make it to my base and then he recalled everything in my main, I instantly lost lol.
also did I mention Warhounds are WAY too good, WAYYYYYYYYYYY to good. You can't do anything else in TvT currently and honestly I'm doing just 1 build marine warhound medivac and autowinning 95% of games with the first push.
Warhounds are an unstandable unit. I play and love Terran cause it's hard, micro-intensive and fun. (fun to watch too), if they carry on and don't change (or remove altogether) this insanely disgusting new mech marauder I'll lose all hope remnants I have for Blizzard's design team.
On September 06 2012 11:40 LuckyFool wrote: so far the craziest loss I've had was to a 1 base mothership core recall in my main, he built it right when his core finished and sent it straight across the map while containing me with stalker/sentry. It took 5 minutes or so for it to make it to my base and then he recalled everything in my main, I instantly lost lol.
also did I mention Warhounds are WAY too good, WAYYYYYYYYYYY to good. You can't do anything else in TvT currently and honestly I'm doing just 1 build marine warhound medivac and autowinning 95% of games with the first push.
On September 06 2012 11:15 Maxd11 wrote: Observers... Anyway I like hots so far from what I've seen but I didn't get in. Why didn't they just give grandmasters and highmasters beta keys and forget about everyone else ?
Why simple grandmasters and highmasters when the better option is just to invite progamers.
On September 06 2012 11:40 LuckyFool wrote: so far the craziest loss I've had was to a 1 base mothership core recall in my main, he built it right when his core finished and sent it straight across the map while containing me with stalker/sentry. It took 5 minutes or so for it to make it to my base and then he recalled everything in my main, I instantly lost lol.
also did I mention Warhounds are WAY too good, WAYYYYYYYYYYY to good. You can't do anything else in TvT currently and honestly I'm doing just 1 build marine warhound medivac and autowinning 95% of games with the first push.
"also when you don't have to make siege tanks anymore its easier to go mech"
wat? srsly? mech without siege tanks? sure, take away the backbone of the entire strategy, the anchor that holds everything togheter and substitue it for a cheaper, less-microable, tougher and more mobile unit, that seems totally more fun and makes just a lot of sense!
...
c'mon dudes, warhounds are bullshit, seriously, what the hell? a MECH unit that binds well with everything?
Warhounds + tanks = good
Warhounds + marauders = good
Warhounds + marines = good
where does the slow-pushing positional game takes part in here? from what i see, until now, terrans are making warhounds and 1aing... and that in my opinion sucks ass.
totally agree with the author, widow mines are a cool concept, like the locust thing as well... just need a little bit more refinement (maybe widow mines should be more like spider mines? and maybe locusts should spawn a bit faster and be a bit weaker?)
i'm not a bw fanboy, never played it, but it just seems those would be nice changes...
with the amout of shit that people are throwing at blizzard atm, they'll absolutely have to change the warhound. and they will change it, maybe they'll even cut it. (I think that terran mech without the warhound is actually quite fine right now, the battle hellion and the mine add some flavor to a tank-based army - there's absolutely no need for a bulky a-move pseudo goliath)
On September 06 2012 23:36 virpi wrote: with the amout of shit that people are throwing at blizzard atm, they'll absolutely have to change the warhound. and they will change it, maybe they'll even cut it. (I think that terran mech without the warhound is actually quite fine right now, the battle hellion and the mine add some flavor to a tank-based army - there's absolutely no need for a bulky a-move pseudo goliath)
I figure they might not get rid of it just yet. I mean if they tone down the standard attack damage or attack rate by a lot then that might still solve some of the problems. Still, I'd like to see it taken out. Just so boring.
Are there any pro Korean SC2 players in the BETA? Seems like it's either EU or NA but I've yet to see a Korean HOTS player... which worries me greatly, in addition to the fact that it didn't seem to me that Korean progamers were consulted on equal footing as EU/NA progamers...
On September 07 2012 10:07 sorrowptoss wrote: Can someone please answer this question of mine?
Are there any pro Korean SC2 players in the BETA? Seems like it's either EU or NA but I've yet to see a Korean HOTS player... which worries me greatly, in addition to the fact that it didn't seem to me that Korean progamers were consulted on equal footing as EU/NA progamers...
I believe Supernova was streaming some HotS yesterday. Of course he's on a foreign team now but I think he still counts.
Nice points, particularly about the Oracle spell being boring in the sense that, as a spectator, there is nothing exciting about seeing a player use it or go that tech route. I had never considered that, but it makes a ton of sense. So much so that now that it has been brought to my attention I can't believe Blizzard is going to put it in the game.
Your opinion of Swarm Host and Warhound seems to be the consensus.
Anyone have thoughts on the Widow Mine graphic? It looks horribly ugly compared to its model in the Battle Reports. Same with the Infested Terrans. What is the need to suddenly change a graphic that was already pretty cool? Realistically, if a terran marine were captured/infested inside of an infestor, it probably would be wrapped up inside an egg-like sac... yet now they're just folded up a bit? Anyone else depressed by this?
It's better to make a unit OP in the beta so that players use it and expose exactly why it's imbalanced, than to make a UP unit that gets unused and unexplored and nobody bothers with it.
My early thought is that is is annoying to see terrans only make warhounds. I realy feel this update takes away alot of the depth of the play terran had. Only massing warhounds is not fun to do, nor to see.
I am pretty convinced they will nerf the Warhound, they destroy everything except mass mass banelings on the ground, they cost shit and train way to fast. They remind me of the one supply roaches in WoL, everybody made them, they were unbelievably over-powered.
I can't wait for the day we will see Swarm Host/Infestor in ZvP, it feels like a more mobile BL/Infestor but even more powerful. I agree with you the locusts need to cost mana or something.
I think warhound should have cost adjusted. From watching streams tehy're really powerful, but for something to come out of a factory at that price and be that effective, that's too much. By changing price they will decrease the numbers, and it will be easier to outnumber them thereby reducing their effectiveness. Price, however, won't change their effectiveness once Terran does Warhounds off 2 bases. I'm thinking a gas increase since mineral price increase for terran is not that threatening.
I like the Battle Hellion, Mine and Swarm Host concept, the stats should just be changed. The warhound, oracle and tempest should just get removed. They're boring 1 dimensional units.
When people complain about the Warhound and the Widow Mine, (Widow mine being too weak for its supply, and Warhound being to good for its supply) why doesn't blizzard just make mines 1 supply and warhounds 3? Makes perfect sense to me.
Also, changing the price of a Warhound doesn't actually change what it would do in a mech deathball. I feel making the supply of the unit more makes the deathball aspect of it much less.
I've got a quick question: Does the corrupter still have its ability to "attack" buildings and get minerals? Because I thought this was really cool, but haven't heard anything about it since beta started.
On September 08 2012 04:17 tehemperorer wrote: I think warhound should have cost adjusted. From watching streams tehy're really powerful, but for something to come out of a factory at that price and be that effective, that's too much. By changing price they will decrease the numbers, and it will be easier to outnumber them thereby reducing their effectiveness. Price, however, won't change their effectiveness once Terran does Warhounds off 2 bases. I'm thinking a gas increase since mineral price increase for terran is not that threatening.
Sir, I would like you to invest my millions on Wall Street. Here they are...
I don't know why I'm ever going to make tanks again, I can get a stronger, more mobile, cheaper unit which costs less supply and builds faster. The whole reason you made tanks in broodwar were for their insane range and damage and because goliaths sucked vs ground (in general) warhounds are so good vs ground I find myself feeling tanks are slow useless cost too much and are annoying now. Warhound combinations with almost any other mech or bio terran unit seemed super powerful. I played vs lastshadow last night and he went warhound + marine and warhound + marauder combos which seemed really good vs my more tank heavy pure mech combination. Vs zerg warhounds are insane too, roaches seem like utter shit vs them, as long as terran takes care of the anti air weakness (maybe go mass marine + warhound?) warhound deathballs seem unkillable. The big problem with the warhound though is the unit is just a pure 1a unit with no upgrades or anything. This unit is great but its really not too fun to play with and doesn’t have much room for any micro potential or interesting stuff.
Warhounds are still totally broken, I have a 99% winrate TvP doing a warhound marine medivac build, + Show Spoiler +
12rax 13gas 18fact add 2nd gas after 3 marines add tech lab on rax swap fact with tech lab-> constant warhounds/starport push out with 2 warhounds 6-8 marines 4 scvs and medivac -> win almost all games or get so far ahead nothing else matters
if protoss doesnt die to it they put themselves ridiculously far behind defending it and I just expo into marine warhound behind it. the attack speed decrease hardly changed anything. I've literally only lost 3 tvp's in over 40 games, and I didn't do my build in the losses. the build above is about as optimized of a warhound 1-1-1 that I've found, you get 2 warhounds by the time the medivac pops (at like 6 minutes) and its almost impossible for protoss to defend and definitely impossible for them to defend it while playing a standard build.
also I think mines are still really cool and one of the more fun units but they actually suck, anytime I find myself making them I'm losing.
Have you experimented whether bio is still viable, or do the unit additions of all races really force you to go mech most of the time in your matchups?
On September 09 2012 13:45 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Have you experimented whether bio is still viable, or do the unit additions of all races really force you to go mech most of the time in your matchups?
Bio is definitely viable (at least tvz). Saw a terran beat Stephano with bio in a pretty long game ^^.
Another great look into HotS for those like me who can't play it
Thanks Lucky! I hope the expansion will allow for more diverse and exciting play, since a lot of people don't seem to like SC2 (and for several quite legitimate reasons).
EPT
). Agreed its just what WOL needed. However I'd like to see the timer back. It feels just a little bit too much like the spider mine at the moment. 10 seconds is waaaay too long. I'd like to see a 2 second timer or something. Just enough to micro away the damage if you get stuck and notice it instantaneously. And obv buff the damage at the same time.
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