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Yo, Teamliquid
I have some recommendations for those want to organize BroodWar StarLeagues in the near future, because some of the competitions of late have been a bit uh... bad? Ugh, I hate using that word, "bad", but come on. The D-Rank Team League has the best production value and organization in BroodWar. Props. For everyone else, I would like to propose the following suggestions:
Exist - My first piece of advice is for your StarLeague to exist, and I'm talking to you, anonymous Team 8 sponsor CEO guy. If you don't exist, people can't play, and then they have nothing and will have to fill that void in their lives with jobs, college, marriages, and engaging in procreation. Or worse - they will end up + Show Spoiler + SUCKING DICK FOR CRACK MONEY
Make Sense - For the love of all that is good and holy, don't just make stuff up as you go along. Don't just say "Well, it's our tournament, so we can just do whatever we want." because that's kind of like saying "Excuse me, tournament players, thanks for playing in my tournament and/or starleague, but I would just like to say I personally view you all as a toilet, if you know what I mean. It means I shit on you.  ))))" No, you make rules, and you follow them. And don't make crazy nonsense rules like "If you have a corrupted replay, send that replay along with the uncorrupted replay and the referees will review both and make a call at their discretion." WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?
Be Nice - People are easily confused. That's why following the previous step is so important, but even if you type a lot of easy-to-read and understandable rules and whatnot, people are going to ask you obvious questions, and you need the patience to be inviting and friendly and not go "DON'T YOU READ, YOU IDIOT!? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, ASSHOLE!?"
Be Fair - If there is a power outage, don't just declare Jaedong the winner. Yeah, we all want Jaedong to win, but don't show favoritism one way or another, because that's not right.
Don't Use Horrible Maps - This pretty much means maps that just should have never existed in the first place, like Monty Hall, Plasma, Luna The Final, Bluestorm, Tau Cross, or... just none of that pre-TSL2 crap, except maybe Destination, but that's it. Even then, people hate Destination even though it's cool. Screw it, don't use Destination.
If someone has a good idea, use it Just say "thank you" and let some math whiz make you a program that automatically organizes crap for you.
Listen to the players If you really care about BroodWar, then you have to realize that the players are the most important part of the tour. Treat them nice. Love them. When they're away from home, make sure their wives are satisfied. Wait, no! Don't do that last one.
Alright, go forth now, little ones, and save BroodWar.
 
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If you have ideas on how to make the next starleague better, let me know, so I can put it here and it can all be in one place.
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Good post but shouldn't this be BW General section?
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Tau cross doesn't belong in your list of map. It's still very playable.
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On August 03 2012 12:38 Xiphos wrote:
Good post but shouldn't this be BW General section?
Blasphemy! The BW General Section is sacred ground that must not be tainted by my obnoxiousness!
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On August 03 2012 12:39 corumjhaelen wrote:
Tau cross doesn't belong in your list of map. It's still very playable.
Oh, I agree that it's "playable", but in terms of balance, there are much better 3-player maps that have been made recently that work a lot better for a wide variety of play, but also encourage late-game play.
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On August 03 2012 12:43 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 12:39 corumjhaelen wrote:
Tau cross doesn't belong in your list of map. It's still very playable. Oh, I agree that it's "playable", but in terms of balance, there are much better 3-player maps that have been made recently that work a lot better for a wide variety of play, but also encourage late-game play.
Which one ?
And Tau cross can very well go into the lategame, I'm not sure what you mean.
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On August 03 2012 12:45 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 12:43 ninazerg wrote:On August 03 2012 12:39 corumjhaelen wrote:
Tau cross doesn't belong in your list of map. It's still very playable. Oh, I agree that it's "playable", but in terms of balance, there are much better 3-player maps that have been made recently that work a lot better for a wide variety of play, but also encourage late-game play. Which one ? And Tau cross can very well go into the lategame, I'm not sure what you mean.
Yeah Tau Cross is a pretty good map.
But I think the 2010 Map pool for ProLeague was the best.
La Mancha, Empire of the Sun, BetlWay, Dante's Peak. They all look pretty beautiful.
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16987 Posts
Luna and Tau Cross were revolutionary maps that were loved by pretty much everyone during their release. Hell, a lot of people still consider Tau Cross to be a very balanced map.
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On August 03 2012 12:48 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 12:45 corumjhaelen wrote:On August 03 2012 12:43 ninazerg wrote:On August 03 2012 12:39 corumjhaelen wrote:
Tau cross doesn't belong in your list of map. It's still very playable. Oh, I agree that it's "playable", but in terms of balance, there are much better 3-player maps that have been made recently that work a lot better for a wide variety of play, but also encourage late-game play. Which one ? And Tau cross can very well go into the lategame, I'm not sure what you mean. Yeah Tau Cross is a pretty good map. But I think the 2010 Map pool for ProLeague was the best. La Mancha, Empire of the Sun, BetlWay, Dante's Peak. They all look pretty beautiful.
Are you sure you're not Terran ? oO
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some of my favorite maps
longinus
tau cross
fighting spirit
othello
zodiac
arcadia
neo forte
rush hour 3
blitz x
colloseum
edit forgot :Sin Gaema Gowon
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On August 03 2012 12:48 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 12:45 corumjhaelen wrote:On August 03 2012 12:43 ninazerg wrote:On August 03 2012 12:39 corumjhaelen wrote:
Tau cross doesn't belong in your list of map. It's still very playable. Oh, I agree that it's "playable", but in terms of balance, there are much better 3-player maps that have been made recently that work a lot better for a wide variety of play, but also encourage late-game play. Which one ? And Tau cross can very well go into the lategame, I'm not sure what you mean. Yeah Tau Cross is a pretty good map. But I think the 2010 Map pool for ProLeague was the best. La Mancha, Empire of the Sun, BetlWay, Dante's Peak. They all look pretty beautiful.
Beltway?
Disgusting.
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On August 03 2012 12:51 Empyrean wrote:
Luna and Tau Cross were revolutionary maps that were loved by pretty much everyone during their release. Hell, a lot of people still consider Tau Cross to be a very balanced map.
On August 03 2012 12:45 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 12:43 ninazerg wrote:On August 03 2012 12:39 corumjhaelen wrote:
Tau cross doesn't belong in your list of map. It's still very playable. Oh, I agree that it's "playable", but in terms of balance, there are much better 3-player maps that have been made recently that work a lot better for a wide variety of play, but also encourage late-game play. Which one ? And Tau cross can very well go into the lategame, I'm not sure what you mean.
On the topic of Tau Cross specifically, I know it's a sensitive subject, because a lot of people still love playing on that map, but I feel like the releases of Neo-Aztec, Great Barrier Reef, and Outsider are more balanced than Tau Cross. My biggest problem with Tau Cross is TvP, which seems to go a lot like this:
First 10 minutes:
- Protoss goes 10/15 gate, wins.
- Protoss goes Bulldog, wins.
- Terran goes 2 Fact, loses to 2 Gate.
After 10 minutes:
- Protoss will have a difficult time securing bases; the "normal" third base with gas is completely open on all sides for vulture harassment, which makes it difficult to defend. Taking a fourth gas is even more problematic, because the distance of the fourth base from the other bases make it easy to isolate and kill for the Terran player.
- The map's layout is deceptive. It looks "wide open", which typically favors Protoss armies during engagements, but there are a lot of narrow chokes at the bridges and entrances, which means the Terran player can secure a bridge area pretty easily, and take their third base.
- I would say the best option for Protoss to open is with 2-Base Arbiter with 4-6 gateways before expanding to get some map control, because the vultures are very annoying when they're free to use all the roundabout routes to hit that exposed Protoss third base. This also threatens the Terran with a recall, however, being forced to go 2-Base Arbiter doesn't exactly make a map flexible in terms of strategy.
- Those cliffs, dude.
Protoss also faces similar problems against Zerg, but with the added threat of massive drops in their main. I'm not saying the map is unplayable, but it's not very practical for modern play.
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How the hell are Great Barrier Reef and Outsider even half balanced ? I love Oustider, but seriously...
Aztec is pretty good, except that TvP is harder than on Tau (even though foreigner don't like carriers) which I don't think Neo Aztec really fixed, and I still have my doubts on TvZ.
The cliffs are cool, deal with it.
If you think 10/15 is a problem, I guess you don't like any non ramped map ?
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On August 03 2012 13:19 corumjhaelen wrote:
How the hell are Great Barrier Reef and Outsider even half balanced ? I love Oustider, but seriously...
Aztec is pretty good, except that TvP is harder than on Tau (even though foreigner don't like carriers) which I don't think Neo Aztec really fixed, and I still have my doubts on TvZ.
The cliffs are cool, deal with it.
If you think 10/15 is a problem, I guess you don't like any non ramped map ?
Look, I can't really vouch much for three-player maps in general, because they're just so friggin' weird, but I was making the case that Terran has very large advantage after the 10-minute mark on Tau Cross unless some kind of timing attack is initiated by the Protoss player.
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Funny  Also the Destination part is not true. Great map
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Fighting Spirit will always be my favorite map. So many legendary games there :')
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No one mentions Circuit Breaker...
I am sad.
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Croatia9504 Posts
haha, I love the direction this thread has taken.
With that said, Tau Cross is one of my favorite maps ever so everything else you say is invalid. Jk, you bring some good points which should pretty much be obvious, but unfortunately are not to a lot of organizers.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
Tau Cross #1 map. OF ALL TIME.
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On August 03 2012 13:15 ninazerg wrote:
After 10 minutes:
- Protoss will have a difficult time securing bases; the "normal" third base with gas is completely open on all sides for vulture harassment, which makes it difficult to defend. Taking a fourth gas is even more problematic, because the distance of the fourth base from the other bases make it easy to isolate and kill for the Terran player.
- The map's layout is deceptive. It looks "wide open", which typically favors Protoss armies during engagements, but there are a lot of narrow chokes at the bridges and entrances, which means the Terran player can secure a bridge area pretty easily, and take their third base.
- I would say the best option for Protoss to open is with 2-Base Arbiter with 4-6 gateways before expanding to get some map control, because the vultures are very annoying when they're free to use all the roundabout routes to hit that exposed Protoss third base. This also threatens the Terran with a recall, however, being forced to go 2-Base Arbiter doesn't exactly make a map flexible in terms of strategy.
- Those cliffs, dude.
Protoss also faces similar problems against Zerg, but with the added threat of massive drops in their main. I'm not saying the map is unplayable, but it's not very practical for modern play.
It's not as obvious as it looks,
When protoss getting 3rd base is a huge factor, when toss gets it early it's because they know that terran is going to get their 3rd base fast too and camp till 200 before moving out. As a result terran will not have many vultures, they might only harrass with 3-4 vults at a time which doesn't make it too hard to get a 3rd. If toss doesn't scout that terran is going to camp, but instead with 5-6 factories waiting to push out, toss will not get 3rd as easily and will get about 6-8 gateways with shuttle with zealots before getting their 3rd, and as a result, if terran deicdes to harrass they'll be losing vulture count which will defeats the purpose of his main timing push.
The small chokes do favor terran if the protoss is dumb and decides to engage at such spots. But most competent protoss will know not to engage terran at those spots. They will go around the map and hit their 3rd while terran is just moving out. They will play hit and run until they get 4-5 bases with massive gateways before attempting to engage. The map layout isn't usually an issue. Plus those small chokes makes statis a bitch, oh and recall.
Most maps makes does allow an fairly easy 3rd base, but in late games the accessibility of the 4th base is a MAJOR factor of game outcomes. The 4th base is definitly not as easy to get for terran, because of the map layout and the bridges.
I beileve tau is a fairly balanced map in terms of TvP, but it is out-dated but not imbalanced. I think it favors terran slightly in TvZ but that's a different story.
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On August 04 2012 00:22 YPang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 13:15 ninazerg wrote:
After 10 minutes:
- Protoss will have a difficult time securing bases; the "normal" third base with gas is completely open on all sides for vulture harassment, which makes it difficult to defend. Taking a fourth gas is even more problematic, because the distance of the fourth base from the other bases make it easy to isolate and kill for the Terran player.
- The map's layout is deceptive. It looks "wide open", which typically favors Protoss armies during engagements, but there are a lot of narrow chokes at the bridges and entrances, which means the Terran player can secure a bridge area pretty easily, and take their third base.
- I would say the best option for Protoss to open is with 2-Base Arbiter with 4-6 gateways before expanding to get some map control, because the vultures are very annoying when they're free to use all the roundabout routes to hit that exposed Protoss third base. This also threatens the Terran with a recall, however, being forced to go 2-Base Arbiter doesn't exactly make a map flexible in terms of strategy.
- Those cliffs, dude.
Protoss also faces similar problems against Zerg, but with the added threat of massive drops in their main. I'm not saying the map is unplayable, but it's not very practical for modern play. It's not as obvious as it looks, When protoss getting 3rd base is a huge factor, when toss gets it early it's because they know that terran is going to get their 3rd base fast too and camp till 200 before moving out. As a result terran will not have many vultures, they might only harrass with 3-4 vults at a time which doesn't make it too hard to get a 3rd. If toss doesn't scout that terran is going to camp, but instead with 5-6 factories waiting to push out, toss will not get 3rd as easily and will get about 6-8 gateways with shuttle with zealots before getting their 3rd, and as a result, if terran deicdes to harrass they'll be losing vulture count which will defeats the purpose of his main timing push. The small chokes do favor terran if the protoss is dumb and decides to engage at such spots. But most competent protoss will know not to engage terran at those spots. They will go around the map and hit their 3rd while terran is just moving out. They will play hit and run until they get 4-5 bases with massive gateways before attempting to engage. The map layout isn't usually an issue. Plus those small chokes makes statis a bitch, oh and recall. Most maps makes does allow an fairly easy 3rd base, but in late games the accessibility of the 4th base is a MAJOR factor of game outcomes. The 4th base is definitly not as easy to get for terran, because of the map layout and the bridges. I beileve tau is a fairly balanced map in terms of TvP, but it is out-dated but not imbalanced. I think it favors terran slightly in TvZ but that's a different story.
I see what you're saying, but I'm saying that while the Terran player is piling up tanks to build a maxed-out army on three bases, they can afford to lose some vultures, because it's the tank numbers that take so long to build up. Vultures will be built and regenerated quickly if they are lost, but I think anyone with decent vulture control would be able to exploit the hell out of this map, putting the Protoss badly behind in production.
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EPT
