• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:34
CET 11:34
KST 19:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners5Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!28$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
- nuked - Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1542 users

Recommendations for Future BroodWar StarLeagues - Page 2

Blogs > ninazerg
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
August 03 2012 15:22 GMT
#21
On August 03 2012 13:15 ninazerg wrote:

After 10 minutes:

- Protoss will have a difficult time securing bases; the "normal" third base with gas is completely open on all sides for vulture harassment, which makes it difficult to defend. Taking a fourth gas is even more problematic, because the distance of the fourth base from the other bases make it easy to isolate and kill for the Terran player.

- The map's layout is deceptive. It looks "wide open", which typically favors Protoss armies during engagements, but there are a lot of narrow chokes at the bridges and entrances, which means the Terran player can secure a bridge area pretty easily, and take their third base.

- I would say the best option for Protoss to open is with 2-Base Arbiter with 4-6 gateways before expanding to get some map control, because the vultures are very annoying when they're free to use all the roundabout routes to hit that exposed Protoss third base. This also threatens the Terran with a recall, however, being forced to go 2-Base Arbiter doesn't exactly make a map flexible in terms of strategy.

- Those cliffs, dude.


Protoss also faces similar problems against Zerg, but with the added threat of massive drops in their main. I'm not saying the map is unplayable, but it's not very practical for modern play.

It's not as obvious as it looks,

When protoss getting 3rd base is a huge factor, when toss gets it early it's because they know that terran is going to get their 3rd base fast too and camp till 200 before moving out. As a result terran will not have many vultures, they might only harrass with 3-4 vults at a time which doesn't make it too hard to get a 3rd. If toss doesn't scout that terran is going to camp, but instead with 5-6 factories waiting to push out, toss will not get 3rd as easily and will get about 6-8 gateways with shuttle with zealots before getting their 3rd, and as a result, if terran deicdes to harrass they'll be losing vulture count which will defeats the purpose of his main timing push.

The small chokes do favor terran if the protoss is dumb and decides to engage at such spots. But most competent protoss will know not to engage terran at those spots. They will go around the map and hit their 3rd while terran is just moving out. They will play hit and run until they get 4-5 bases with massive gateways before attempting to engage. The map layout isn't usually an issue. Plus those small chokes makes statis a bitch, oh and recall.

Most maps makes does allow an fairly easy 3rd base, but in late games the accessibility of the 4th base is a MAJOR factor of game outcomes. The 4th base is definitly not as easy to get for terran, because of the map layout and the bridges.

I beileve tau is a fairly balanced map in terms of TvP, but it is out-dated but not imbalanced. I think it favors terran slightly in TvZ but that's a different story.
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
August 03 2012 19:50 GMT
#22
On August 04 2012 00:22 YPang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 13:15 ninazerg wrote:

After 10 minutes:

- Protoss will have a difficult time securing bases; the "normal" third base with gas is completely open on all sides for vulture harassment, which makes it difficult to defend. Taking a fourth gas is even more problematic, because the distance of the fourth base from the other bases make it easy to isolate and kill for the Terran player.

- The map's layout is deceptive. It looks "wide open", which typically favors Protoss armies during engagements, but there are a lot of narrow chokes at the bridges and entrances, which means the Terran player can secure a bridge area pretty easily, and take their third base.

- I would say the best option for Protoss to open is with 2-Base Arbiter with 4-6 gateways before expanding to get some map control, because the vultures are very annoying when they're free to use all the roundabout routes to hit that exposed Protoss third base. This also threatens the Terran with a recall, however, being forced to go 2-Base Arbiter doesn't exactly make a map flexible in terms of strategy.

- Those cliffs, dude.


Protoss also faces similar problems against Zerg, but with the added threat of massive drops in their main. I'm not saying the map is unplayable, but it's not very practical for modern play.

It's not as obvious as it looks,

When protoss getting 3rd base is a huge factor, when toss gets it early it's because they know that terran is going to get their 3rd base fast too and camp till 200 before moving out. As a result terran will not have many vultures, they might only harrass with 3-4 vults at a time which doesn't make it too hard to get a 3rd. If toss doesn't scout that terran is going to camp, but instead with 5-6 factories waiting to push out, toss will not get 3rd as easily and will get about 6-8 gateways with shuttle with zealots before getting their 3rd, and as a result, if terran deicdes to harrass they'll be losing vulture count which will defeats the purpose of his main timing push.

The small chokes do favor terran if the protoss is dumb and decides to engage at such spots. But most competent protoss will know not to engage terran at those spots. They will go around the map and hit their 3rd while terran is just moving out. They will play hit and run until they get 4-5 bases with massive gateways before attempting to engage. The map layout isn't usually an issue. Plus those small chokes makes statis a bitch, oh and recall.

Most maps makes does allow an fairly easy 3rd base, but in late games the accessibility of the 4th base is a MAJOR factor of game outcomes. The 4th base is definitly not as easy to get for terran, because of the map layout and the bridges.

I beileve tau is a fairly balanced map in terms of TvP, but it is out-dated but not imbalanced. I think it favors terran slightly in TvZ but that's a different story.


I see what you're saying, but I'm saying that while the Terran player is piling up tanks to build a maxed-out army on three bases, they can afford to lose some vultures, because it's the tank numbers that take so long to build up. Vultures will be built and regenerated quickly if they are lost, but I think anyone with decent vulture control would be able to exploit the hell out of this map, putting the Protoss badly behind in production.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 26m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7742
Jaedong 647
BeSt 372
Stork 253
Light 225
Mini 156
Leta 150
JYJ141
PianO 131
Larva 126
[ Show more ]
Aegong 107
Pusan 101
EffOrt 88
sSak 86
soO 48
Sharp 44
Backho 43
Rush 37
sorry 25
yabsab 20
Barracks 20
NotJumperer 18
HiyA 10
Terrorterran 10
Bale 9
Noble 7
scan(afreeca) 2
Icarus 2
Dota 2
Gorgc5679
KheZu210
XcaliburYe161
League of Legends
JimRising 412
Reynor173
Counter-Strike
fl0m1739
zeus128
taco 81
Other Games
summit1g16616
singsing1141
ceh9459
crisheroes191
Happy176
Sick127
XaKoH 102
NeuroSwarm43
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick517
Counter-Strike
PGL167
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 34
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3775
• Stunt597
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 26m
LAN Event
4h 26m
Lambo vs Harstem
FuturE vs Maplez
Scarlett vs FoxeR
Gerald vs Mixu
Zoun vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
TriGGeR vs TBD
Korean StarCraft League
16h 26m
CranKy Ducklings
23h 26m
LAN Event
1d 4h
IPSL
1d 7h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
1d 9h
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
2 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.