• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:51
CET 23:51
KST 07:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How Does UI/UX Design Influence User Trust? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1293 users

Recommendations for Future BroodWar StarLeagues - Page 2

Blogs > ninazerg
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
August 03 2012 15:22 GMT
#21
On August 03 2012 13:15 ninazerg wrote:

After 10 minutes:

- Protoss will have a difficult time securing bases; the "normal" third base with gas is completely open on all sides for vulture harassment, which makes it difficult to defend. Taking a fourth gas is even more problematic, because the distance of the fourth base from the other bases make it easy to isolate and kill for the Terran player.

- The map's layout is deceptive. It looks "wide open", which typically favors Protoss armies during engagements, but there are a lot of narrow chokes at the bridges and entrances, which means the Terran player can secure a bridge area pretty easily, and take their third base.

- I would say the best option for Protoss to open is with 2-Base Arbiter with 4-6 gateways before expanding to get some map control, because the vultures are very annoying when they're free to use all the roundabout routes to hit that exposed Protoss third base. This also threatens the Terran with a recall, however, being forced to go 2-Base Arbiter doesn't exactly make a map flexible in terms of strategy.

- Those cliffs, dude.


Protoss also faces similar problems against Zerg, but with the added threat of massive drops in their main. I'm not saying the map is unplayable, but it's not very practical for modern play.

It's not as obvious as it looks,

When protoss getting 3rd base is a huge factor, when toss gets it early it's because they know that terran is going to get their 3rd base fast too and camp till 200 before moving out. As a result terran will not have many vultures, they might only harrass with 3-4 vults at a time which doesn't make it too hard to get a 3rd. If toss doesn't scout that terran is going to camp, but instead with 5-6 factories waiting to push out, toss will not get 3rd as easily and will get about 6-8 gateways with shuttle with zealots before getting their 3rd, and as a result, if terran deicdes to harrass they'll be losing vulture count which will defeats the purpose of his main timing push.

The small chokes do favor terran if the protoss is dumb and decides to engage at such spots. But most competent protoss will know not to engage terran at those spots. They will go around the map and hit their 3rd while terran is just moving out. They will play hit and run until they get 4-5 bases with massive gateways before attempting to engage. The map layout isn't usually an issue. Plus those small chokes makes statis a bitch, oh and recall.

Most maps makes does allow an fairly easy 3rd base, but in late games the accessibility of the 4th base is a MAJOR factor of game outcomes. The 4th base is definitly not as easy to get for terran, because of the map layout and the bridges.

I beileve tau is a fairly balanced map in terms of TvP, but it is out-dated but not imbalanced. I think it favors terran slightly in TvZ but that's a different story.
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
August 03 2012 19:50 GMT
#22
On August 04 2012 00:22 YPang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 13:15 ninazerg wrote:

After 10 minutes:

- Protoss will have a difficult time securing bases; the "normal" third base with gas is completely open on all sides for vulture harassment, which makes it difficult to defend. Taking a fourth gas is even more problematic, because the distance of the fourth base from the other bases make it easy to isolate and kill for the Terran player.

- The map's layout is deceptive. It looks "wide open", which typically favors Protoss armies during engagements, but there are a lot of narrow chokes at the bridges and entrances, which means the Terran player can secure a bridge area pretty easily, and take their third base.

- I would say the best option for Protoss to open is with 2-Base Arbiter with 4-6 gateways before expanding to get some map control, because the vultures are very annoying when they're free to use all the roundabout routes to hit that exposed Protoss third base. This also threatens the Terran with a recall, however, being forced to go 2-Base Arbiter doesn't exactly make a map flexible in terms of strategy.

- Those cliffs, dude.


Protoss also faces similar problems against Zerg, but with the added threat of massive drops in their main. I'm not saying the map is unplayable, but it's not very practical for modern play.

It's not as obvious as it looks,

When protoss getting 3rd base is a huge factor, when toss gets it early it's because they know that terran is going to get their 3rd base fast too and camp till 200 before moving out. As a result terran will not have many vultures, they might only harrass with 3-4 vults at a time which doesn't make it too hard to get a 3rd. If toss doesn't scout that terran is going to camp, but instead with 5-6 factories waiting to push out, toss will not get 3rd as easily and will get about 6-8 gateways with shuttle with zealots before getting their 3rd, and as a result, if terran deicdes to harrass they'll be losing vulture count which will defeats the purpose of his main timing push.

The small chokes do favor terran if the protoss is dumb and decides to engage at such spots. But most competent protoss will know not to engage terran at those spots. They will go around the map and hit their 3rd while terran is just moving out. They will play hit and run until they get 4-5 bases with massive gateways before attempting to engage. The map layout isn't usually an issue. Plus those small chokes makes statis a bitch, oh and recall.

Most maps makes does allow an fairly easy 3rd base, but in late games the accessibility of the 4th base is a MAJOR factor of game outcomes. The 4th base is definitly not as easy to get for terran, because of the map layout and the bridges.

I beileve tau is a fairly balanced map in terms of TvP, but it is out-dated but not imbalanced. I think it favors terran slightly in TvZ but that's a different story.


I see what you're saying, but I'm saying that while the Terran player is piling up tanks to build a maxed-out army on three bases, they can afford to lose some vultures, because it's the tank numbers that take so long to build up. Vultures will be built and regenerated quickly if they are lost, but I think anyone with decent vulture control would be able to exploit the hell out of this map, putting the Protoss badly behind in production.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 163
ProTech149
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 1614
Shuttle 78
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm128
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor218
Other Games
tarik_tv3542
Grubby3401
fl0m813
RotterdaM413
mouzStarbuck335
Liquid`Hasu214
Sick108
Maynarde57
ZombieGrub43
Chillindude27
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV43
StarCraft 2
angryscii 30
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 78
• davetesta57
• StrangeGG 46
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 14
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV988
League of Legends
• Doublelift4564
Other Games
• imaqtpie2626
• Scarra932
• Shiphtur376
• tFFMrPink 14
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 10m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 11h
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
OSC
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
OSC
3 days
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.