|
One of the great things about competitive Starcraft (both BW and SC2) is the passion that the fans have for players and teams. Without the fans, the entire scene would not exist. Realizing the importance of fans, many teams and players actively reach out and engage the community, and many pro-gamers feel an obligation towards their fans.
But I feel that this fan-player/team relationship is a two-way street in terms of obligations. Of course, it is important for the progamers to win, and often interact with fans at LANs, and through activities such as streaming. But what about the fans?
I'm think that a lot of us can relate to this statement: "I like X pro-gamer, but his fans annoy the hell out of me". Ultimately, whether one likes it or not, the fans of a player do represent the player to a certain extent. Even if progamer X is an incredibly good-mannered fellow, if a significant portion of his fans spam the forums with "OMG, "X" pwns all these nubs, u mod, u mod? huehuehue!", it can get aggravating for the rest of us. While X has nothing to do with such garbage, it is still tied to him, and can negatively affect his perception within the community.
Obviously I exaggerate with the above example, but it does show how a team's or a progamer's fans can influence perception. I also believe the the opposite can be true, where if the fans of a team or progamer act positively, or try to persuade others why their favorite team/player is the best in a polite and reasonable manner, they can bolster perception, though this positive effect is less pronounced I feel than the negative effects of "poor" fans.
I was really pleased about TL implementing new team icons, and I feel that it is a huge improvement, but having that icon comes with responsibility.
I'm a big fan of Slayers and Quantic, but because every post I make on this forum displayed that I am a fan of these teams, everytime I make a dumbass post or post something inflammatory, I inadvertently tie the brands of these two teams to my stupidity. One single post is not likely to instantly turn people off, but how about 10 shitty posts? Or 100? How about 10 shitty posters continuously posting, each horrible post bearing the icon of a team that is now being associated with such dumbassery? In aggregation, it can make a difference.
What is all this rambling coming down to, you may ask? Basically don't be a dumbass, since even though you may not care what the rest of the community thinks of you in particular, by having the team and player logos in your signature and the post, you tie the brand of the team to your post.
Wear that team icon with pride as if it were a miniature, online uniform, and support the teams and players with gusto and energy. Cheer them on, show your passion, just be sure not to let it get out of hand.
 
|
Thank you for this, it is very important to let the community know that we need to stop being haters.
Constructive criticism, not hate please. Show love for the players you like, not hate for the players you dislike.
I will continue on fanboying Kas like none other 
There is 1 progamer that I strongly dislike but I will never mention it again, I do not want to join any shit storms surrounding that player.
|
I don't think this is a responsibility for the fans rather for human beings. DON'T BE A DICK!
|
On June 01 2012 15:17 surfinbird1 wrote:
I don't think this is a responsibility for the fans rather for human beings. DON'T BE A DICK!
The OP isn't a general call for respect of others ("don't be a dick"), but rather a call to respect yourself and the team you cheer enough to make good comments on this forum.
|
On June 01 2012 16:40 zawk9 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 15:17 surfinbird1 wrote:
I don't think this is a responsibility for the fans rather for human beings. DON'T BE A DICK! The OP isn't a general call for respect of others ("don't be a dick"), but rather a call to respect yourself and the team you cheer enough to make good comments on this forum.
True, but it can't hurt and will have some nice side effects
|
People will be dumbasses regardless.
When they finally announced it I said to myself, "Oh no, not the same shit we have to deal with in the BW Forums but only worse."
The sad thing is I already know, which biggots to avoid. Unlike most folks I have extremely large databank when it comes to remembering certain people and their tics, so I know what they're all about already.
I don't need an icon to tell me that.
|
|
|
I can only agree. The fans are to blame for soooo much
|
On June 01 2012 15:17 surfinbird1 wrote:
I don't think this is a responsibility for the fans rather for human beings. DON'T BE A DICK!
Yep, basically. Now with the team icons, and the wide variety of user IDs on this forums, chances are people will remember the team icon better than the name itself, especially if the user is a sporadic poster, so represent your favorite team well.
|
If I read that right, you're suggesting that we should avoid pissing people off to protect other people from guilt by association, even though it's a form of association anyone with a functional brain knows can't really be prevented?
Stereotyping a team by it's fans is as ignorant as the people out there who stereotype gamers because of their hobby. I'd say people who are doing that are by far the larger detriment to both the community, and society as a whole.
|
On June 04 2012 14:28 JingleHell wrote:
If I read that right, you're suggesting that we should avoid pissing people off to protect other people from guilt by association, even though it's a form of association anyone with a functional brain knows can't really be prevented?
Stereotyping a team by it's fans is as ignorant as the people out there who stereotype gamers because of their hobby. I'd say people who are doing that are by far the larger detriment to both the community, and society as a whole.
No, I think that the community needs to take accountability for its actions. For example, if you do something stupid while wearing a company uniform or representing a firm, your stupidity will reflect poorly on the company.
Appeasement? No, I do not call for that. I simply ask for people to be a bit more accountable and professional with their posting, and realize that there are consequences to posts, good and bad. There is no need to be obsequious and pandering, but there is not need to actively engage someone in a hostile, angry debate over whether Oz or Squirtle has better PvP. Have a debate, but just be civil about it, and try to retain a sense of professionalism.
Of course judging a team or a player by its fans is illogical, but that is a natural occurance. We do that all the time in the real world. For example, if a Wal-Mart employee were to launch a racist/sexist/offensive tirade against a customer, not only would the employee instantly get sacked, but the company would get negative press. Is it unfortunate that an entire company of 2.2 million employees gets bad press due to the actions of one idiot? Yes, but that is how the real world works unfortunately.
|
On June 04 2012 15:18 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 14:28 JingleHell wrote:
If I read that right, you're suggesting that we should avoid pissing people off to protect other people from guilt by association, even though it's a form of association anyone with a functional brain knows can't really be prevented?
Stereotyping a team by it's fans is as ignorant as the people out there who stereotype gamers because of their hobby. I'd say people who are doing that are by far the larger detriment to both the community, and society as a whole. No, I think that the community needs to take accountability for its actions. For example, if you do something stupid while wearing a company uniform or representing a firm, your stupidity will reflect poorly on the company. Appeasement? No, I do not call for that. I simply ask for people to be a bit more accountable and professional with their posting, and realize that there are consequences to posts, good and bad. There is no need to be obsequious and pandering, but there is not need to actively engage someone in a hostile, angry debate over whether Oz or Squirtle has better PvP. Have a debate, but just be civil about it, and try to retain a sense of professionalism. Of course judging a team or a player by its fans is illogical, but that is a natural occurance. We do that all the time in the real world. For example, if a Wal-Mart employee were to launch a racist/sexist/offensive tirade against a customer, not only would the employee instantly get sacked, but the company would get negative press. Is it unfortunate that an entire company of 2.2 million employees gets bad press due to the actions of one idiot? Yes, but that is how the real world works unfortunately.
Don't lecture me about the "real world" while you're suggesting that it's my responsibility to prevent people from being idiots.
A fatalistic "well that's just what happens" attitude doesn't help anybody.
My favorite team, for example, is Liquid. Got the icon picked and everything. I've only met two of their people in person. The team can't make me dislike watching them play, in a practical way. They don't pay me to represent them, they didn't ask me to like them. They can't practically make me stop liking them. So in no manner, way, shape, or form should they be held accountable for me. Anyone choosing to blame them for my actions is the one who's out of touch with reality, not me.
|
Those things aren't preventable.
At the end of the day you're only responsible for yourself.
|
I'm normally all for civility and good manner but I think a few light-hearted jabs are part of fan culture. There's a reason why I like KT - SKT matches more than any other.
+ Show Spoiler +Almost as much as watching Bisu lose to hydra busts in OSL prelims LOLOL.
|
On June 04 2012 22:37 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 15:18 Bagration wrote:On June 04 2012 14:28 JingleHell wrote:
If I read that right, you're suggesting that we should avoid pissing people off to protect other people from guilt by association, even though it's a form of association anyone with a functional brain knows can't really be prevented?
Stereotyping a team by it's fans is as ignorant as the people out there who stereotype gamers because of their hobby. I'd say people who are doing that are by far the larger detriment to both the community, and society as a whole. No, I think that the community needs to take accountability for its actions. For example, if you do something stupid while wearing a company uniform or representing a firm, your stupidity will reflect poorly on the company. Appeasement? No, I do not call for that. I simply ask for people to be a bit more accountable and professional with their posting, and realize that there are consequences to posts, good and bad. There is no need to be obsequious and pandering, but there is not need to actively engage someone in a hostile, angry debate over whether Oz or Squirtle has better PvP. Have a debate, but just be civil about it, and try to retain a sense of professionalism. Of course judging a team or a player by its fans is illogical, but that is a natural occurance. We do that all the time in the real world. For example, if a Wal-Mart employee were to launch a racist/sexist/offensive tirade against a customer, not only would the employee instantly get sacked, but the company would get negative press. Is it unfortunate that an entire company of 2.2 million employees gets bad press due to the actions of one idiot? Yes, but that is how the real world works unfortunately. Don't lecture me about the "real world" while you're suggesting that it's my responsibility to prevent people from being idiots. A fatalistic "well that's just what happens" attitude doesn't help anybody. My favorite team, for example, is Liquid. Got the icon picked and everything. I've only met two of their people in person. The team can't make me dislike watching them play, in a practical way. They don't pay me to represent them, they didn't ask me to like them. They can't practically make me stop liking them. So in no manner, way, shape, or form should they be held accountable for me. Anyone choosing to blame them for my actions is the one who's out of touch with reality, not me.
Of course it is not your responsibility to prevent others from acting like fools, nor did I ever suggest that. I just call for people to be more accountable for their own actions. That is all.
I concede that I must have rambled a bit in the OP, and I am regretful about that unfortunate tendency I have, but basically all I am trying to say is that fans need to understand that their actions can influence the perception of their teams that they wear the icons of. If I am not mistaken, you believe that people who associate a team/player with the actions of the fanbase are being illogical, and I agree with you. But that is not the main focus that I am going for.
I believe that one way to improve the community is for people to be more accountable and less hostile in their interactions with others. I love rivalries: They bring out passion, give additional meaning to matches, and really showcase the spirit of competition. But sometimes people take things too far. We've all seen the riots after particularly contentious soccer games. I've been to college football games where visiting fans have been viciously harassed by the home crowd. I don't like that. Already, it is not uncommon to see LR threads turn into shoutfests between opposing fans. I just want some civility.
TL;DR People who make associations between teams/players and their fanbases are not thinking logically, but that is not the main point. This thread is about the individual taking responsibility for himself, and acting in a civil manner.
|
On June 05 2012 04:18 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 22:37 JingleHell wrote:On June 04 2012 15:18 Bagration wrote:On June 04 2012 14:28 JingleHell wrote:
If I read that right, you're suggesting that we should avoid pissing people off to protect other people from guilt by association, even though it's a form of association anyone with a functional brain knows can't really be prevented?
Stereotyping a team by it's fans is as ignorant as the people out there who stereotype gamers because of their hobby. I'd say people who are doing that are by far the larger detriment to both the community, and society as a whole. No, I think that the community needs to take accountability for its actions. For example, if you do something stupid while wearing a company uniform or representing a firm, your stupidity will reflect poorly on the company. Appeasement? No, I do not call for that. I simply ask for people to be a bit more accountable and professional with their posting, and realize that there are consequences to posts, good and bad. There is no need to be obsequious and pandering, but there is not need to actively engage someone in a hostile, angry debate over whether Oz or Squirtle has better PvP. Have a debate, but just be civil about it, and try to retain a sense of professionalism. Of course judging a team or a player by its fans is illogical, but that is a natural occurance. We do that all the time in the real world. For example, if a Wal-Mart employee were to launch a racist/sexist/offensive tirade against a customer, not only would the employee instantly get sacked, but the company would get negative press. Is it unfortunate that an entire company of 2.2 million employees gets bad press due to the actions of one idiot? Yes, but that is how the real world works unfortunately. Don't lecture me about the "real world" while you're suggesting that it's my responsibility to prevent people from being idiots. A fatalistic "well that's just what happens" attitude doesn't help anybody. My favorite team, for example, is Liquid. Got the icon picked and everything. I've only met two of their people in person. The team can't make me dislike watching them play, in a practical way. They don't pay me to represent them, they didn't ask me to like them. They can't practically make me stop liking them. So in no manner, way, shape, or form should they be held accountable for me. Anyone choosing to blame them for my actions is the one who's out of touch with reality, not me. Of course it is not your responsibility to prevent others from acting like fools, nor did I ever suggest that. I just call for people to be more accountable for their own actions. That is all. I concede that I must have rambled a bit in the OP, and I am regretful about that unfortunate tendency I have, but basically all I am trying to say is that fans need to understand that their actions can influence the perception of their teams that they wear the icons of. If I am not mistaken, you believe that people who associate a team/player with the actions of the fanbase are being illogical, and I agree with you. But that is not the main focus that I am going for. I believe that one way to improve the community is for people to be more accountable and less hostile in their interactions with others. I love rivalries: They bring out passion, give additional meaning to matches, and really showcase the spirit of competition. But sometimes people take things too far. We've all seen the riots after particularly contentious soccer games. I've been to college football games where visiting fans have been viciously harassed by the home crowd. I don't like that. Already, it is not uncommon to see LR threads turn into shoutfests between opposing fans. I just want some civility. TL;DR People who make associations between teams/players and their fanbases are not thinking logically, but that is not the main point. This thread is about the individual taking responsibility for himself, and acting in a civil manner.
I think your reasoning is ridiculous, even if the end result is desirable.
If someone only looks at the consequences of their actions in how they may affect people who are associated with them through no choice of their own, they aren't actually looking at the potential consequences, or holding themselves accountable at all.
I agree you're not asking for anything crazy or unreasonable, but the reasoning you're giving isn't going to be appropriately motivational. As an example, while I was in the Army, nobody really gave a shit about things they did looking bad on the Army or on their Unit, but if those actions could also cost them rank, pay, and free time, they suddenly thought about it.
It's the consequences for the individual that have a chance of making people think, as a general rule. And that's just the real world 
|
On June 05 2012 04:30 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:18 Bagration wrote:On June 04 2012 22:37 JingleHell wrote:On June 04 2012 15:18 Bagration wrote:On June 04 2012 14:28 JingleHell wrote:
If I read that right, you're suggesting that we should avoid pissing people off to protect other people from guilt by association, even though it's a form of association anyone with a functional brain knows can't really be prevented?
Stereotyping a team by it's fans is as ignorant as the people out there who stereotype gamers because of their hobby. I'd say people who are doing that are by far the larger detriment to both the community, and society as a whole. No, I think that the community needs to take accountability for its actions. For example, if you do something stupid while wearing a company uniform or representing a firm, your stupidity will reflect poorly on the company. Appeasement? No, I do not call for that. I simply ask for people to be a bit more accountable and professional with their posting, and realize that there are consequences to posts, good and bad. There is no need to be obsequious and pandering, but there is not need to actively engage someone in a hostile, angry debate over whether Oz or Squirtle has better PvP. Have a debate, but just be civil about it, and try to retain a sense of professionalism. Of course judging a team or a player by its fans is illogical, but that is a natural occurance. We do that all the time in the real world. For example, if a Wal-Mart employee were to launch a racist/sexist/offensive tirade against a customer, not only would the employee instantly get sacked, but the company would get negative press. Is it unfortunate that an entire company of 2.2 million employees gets bad press due to the actions of one idiot? Yes, but that is how the real world works unfortunately. Don't lecture me about the "real world" while you're suggesting that it's my responsibility to prevent people from being idiots. A fatalistic "well that's just what happens" attitude doesn't help anybody. My favorite team, for example, is Liquid. Got the icon picked and everything. I've only met two of their people in person. The team can't make me dislike watching them play, in a practical way. They don't pay me to represent them, they didn't ask me to like them. They can't practically make me stop liking them. So in no manner, way, shape, or form should they be held accountable for me. Anyone choosing to blame them for my actions is the one who's out of touch with reality, not me. Of course it is not your responsibility to prevent others from acting like fools, nor did I ever suggest that. I just call for people to be more accountable for their own actions. That is all. I concede that I must have rambled a bit in the OP, and I am regretful about that unfortunate tendency I have, but basically all I am trying to say is that fans need to understand that their actions can influence the perception of their teams that they wear the icons of. If I am not mistaken, you believe that people who associate a team/player with the actions of the fanbase are being illogical, and I agree with you. But that is not the main focus that I am going for. I believe that one way to improve the community is for people to be more accountable and less hostile in their interactions with others. I love rivalries: They bring out passion, give additional meaning to matches, and really showcase the spirit of competition. But sometimes people take things too far. We've all seen the riots after particularly contentious soccer games. I've been to college football games where visiting fans have been viciously harassed by the home crowd. I don't like that. Already, it is not uncommon to see LR threads turn into shoutfests between opposing fans. I just want some civility. TL;DR People who make associations between teams/players and their fanbases are not thinking logically, but that is not the main point. This thread is about the individual taking responsibility for himself, and acting in a civil manner. I think your reasoning is ridiculous, even if the end result is desirable. If someone only looks at the consequences of their actions in how they may affect people who are associated with them through no choice of their own, they aren't actually looking at the potential consequences, or holding themselves accountable at all. I agree you're not asking for anything crazy or unreasonable, but the reasoning you're giving isn't going to be appropriately motivational. As an example, while I was in the Army, nobody really gave a shit about things they did looking bad on the Army or on their Unit, but if those actions could also cost them rank, pay, and free time, they suddenly thought about it. It's the consequences for the individual that have a chance of making people think, as a general rule. And that's just the real world
Maybe. I guess I may be idealistic, but I'd like to think that the majority of the community means well. You are right about the importance of individual consequence: If the consequence of community ostracization and moderation for a record of poor posting was not enough to deter a poor poster, making a team look bad would be the least of their concerns. For those chronically poor posters, my appeal is next to useless.
In the end, I figure I appeal to those fans who mean well but end up getting carried away at times by passion to support their favorite player or team in the heat of an argument, or during a particularly tense match (I know it has certainly happened to me a few times). I think if they were to realize that their posts can impact the perception of the teams and players whose icon they sport, they may exercise a bit more restraint on their passion.
Like I said before, I may be overly idealistic, but I see no harm in letting people know that their posts can affect the perception of others, and I geniunely believe there are those out there who would be more willing to "keep it civil" if they knew that their actions would affect others, however insignificantly.
And just like that, you and I have found ourselves once more in the timeless debate on the true nature of humanity, a creature of opportunity and self-interest, or perhaps a creature that could be motivated by higher ideals?
I doubt that you and I will be able to come to a definite conclusion to that great question, though. Nevertheless, I enjoyed this discussion with you, JingleHell, and you brought up a lot of good points.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
