• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:14
CEST 21:14
KST 04:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)28Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) [D] Wireframe Casting Removed Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) Etiquete rules in Asl? Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map)
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11613 users

Why didn't Complexity leverage ROOT's Brand?

Blogs > MegaBuster
Post a Reply
MegaBuster
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
167 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-09 23:44:52
May 09 2012 22:32 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Gone but not forgotten.

So after a recent journey into some old webspace I noticed root-gaming.com had finally gone offline removing most traces of what was once my favorite Starcraft team.

In June of last year Complexity gaming acquired ROOT after their long standing issues with finding a proper sponsorship.

With this merger the team was half absorbed by coL (CatZ, drewbie, Minigun, DdoRo), while half broke off (Slush, KiWi, Sheth, Fayth, Destiny). You could even argue leading up to the sponsorship troubles another key part of the team was forced to move on to find some backing (Sheth, qxc, Major).

I also know that part of ROOT's backend management guys were picked up by organizations as well. (edchang, SunDevil to IPL). I'm not sure how that coincided with ROOT's dissolving.

Ignoring the ending, in their time ROOT managed to do something that few teams in this space have accomplished. Create a likeable, inspiring brand.

They were an organic collection of talent, easily among the best assemblies of North American players, and one without the Brood War pedigree that teams like EG/TL relied on to build their image.

Over the course of the beta and early release they had fantastic clan war results, I've heard some very high win rates cited by CatZ but finding the exact records is a bit hard. But fans can attest, they were successful and had strong feuds building with big name teams which added to their draw.

Beyond that they created a mascot (a CatZ drawn little Root man), colour schemes (earthy tones reflecting the name). They had some success with content creation, tournament hosting, and were the first foreigner team to independently set up a training house.

So the brand was strong, everyone had an opinion on them, either as passionate fans or opponents of their style. Exactly what you want from a team.

Now when Complexity picked them up my question is, when not create coL.ROOT?

This move has precedent, when Complexity acquired Cross Counter as their fighting team section they became the brand coL.cc or Complexity.Cross Counter. I'm not sure of the relative successes of that move, but there is no flaw in the concept. You are leveraging an established brand to boost up the main one.

The counter arguments I thought of at the time, have pretty much been eliminated as time went on.

-It would be against the philosophy ROOT was founded on.

That was the DIY, indie mentality that a group of passionate players/back end guys could build the idea from the ground up, from its ROOTS.

Well maybe so, but it is not like Complexity was the man or something. Complexity is fairly grass roots on their own, and despite having real sponsors they enjoy a communicative honest relationship with the community in general. Credit to their founders.

As well many players moved onto other brands FXO, ReIGN. Independence and passion are great, but having at least some financial backing in a space hardly brimming with cash, is completely fine. You can't sell out for minimum wage.

-It would be against the players left behind who joined ROOT believing in their philosophy.

Again maybe so, but I might guess that the players enjoyed the people, the framework more than the desire to purely handle the backing side themselves too. Slush/KiWi/Fayth reportedly went back to the ROOT tag at some Canadian LANs. Destiny wore it for quite a while before being with Quantic.

The players on the outs from the original ROOT if Complexity picked up the tag given recent movement (like qxc to Complexity) would be Slush, Destiny, Major, dDoRo and Sheth. Each player has their own circumstances why it might be acceptable, from Sheth being in good hands to Destiny probably being free of a team concept for a while.

-ROOT is gone. The players on Complexity now are too different.

Now if they did do this it would apply the ROOT tag to some players who hadn't been there before, Complexity rosters is quite vast. ROOT.Nada, ROOT.complexityacademygraduate? It doesn't really make as much sense.

It might be too late for this idea. With Complexity going worldwide.

But on reflection, I still see the property as valuable.

Maybe rebuild it as a clan/B-Team attached to Complexity, a way to remold the Complexity Academy as an attractive commodity? (with CatZ/Drewbie as talent scouts?).

Maybe section off Complexity into coL.ROOT + coL.Korea, to allow their foreigner talent to compete without the boost from Korean gamers (like so many large teams are doing now.) It might be a strategy to put the pride back in their performance and gain some of the results of yesterday or foster foreign talent.

Who knows?

All I know is since the dissolving of ROOT, the scene seems a little more sterile, and a little less interesting. What ROOT actually was, wasn't a collection of people, it wasn't an idea, it wasn't a logo. It was simply an incarnation of the raw passion and desire to blast apart the scene and be successful that so many organizations embodied at launch of this game. Something definitely worthy of keeping around.

Complexity is still my team, but I just see failures from this stance to take the players of ROOT but not keep their spirit.

And I never got to buy those ROOT t-shirts. I know many people were with me

Masq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1792 Posts
May 09 2012 22:40 GMT
#2
An interesting topic and I'm not in the know, but I assume its because complexity doesn't give a crap about ROOTs brand.

They want THEIR brand. If they are putting money into a team, they dont want shared brand identity like coL.ROOT, they want coL only.
Th1rdEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1074 Posts
May 09 2012 22:42 GMT
#3
The thing is, complexity was way way way way more known and more established than ROOT ever was/would be.

Complexity has been known in the gaming community for .. probably 10 years now ( dont quote me)
from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
May 09 2012 22:44 GMT
#4
Man, I miss ROOT so much. What you said at the end, "an incarnation of raw passion" is just so true. CatZ and Drewbie said they were going to make a pro team with SC2, and that's exactly what they did through hard work and desire. ROOT was the real "team team" I guess. Every guy in the team was tight, and ROOT was tight with the community.

I wish Complexity would have done as you said, allowed ROOT to continue with the coL tag as well. Miss it so much.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
achristes
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Norway653 Posts
May 09 2012 22:51 GMT
#5
This post made me really, really sad, I miss ROOT so much :/
youtube.com/spooderm4n | twitch.tv/spooderm4n | Random videos and games I feel like uploading
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-09 22:59:45
May 09 2012 22:58 GMT
#6
Outside of our community, no one knows ROOT. Complexity, on the other hand, has been around for almost a decade - and established brand in many, many genres. Why would Jason Lake wants to rebrand the entire organization for adding several players? Lake is a good business man, he is not stupid enough to add a co-brand unless it's worth a lot of money (see FnaticRAIDCALL).

I love ROOT too, but half of ROOT's reputation comes from being indy. As soon as ROOT got picked up by an organization, that indy cred ceases to exist. There's little value in resurrecting/retaining it.
Thank God and gunrun.
MegaBuster
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
167 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-09 23:10:40
May 09 2012 23:09 GMT
#7
This certainly wasn't intended as a knock on Complexity's brand, I'm well aware of their history. It's merely musing on if there was/is any possible salvaging to what was a really great thing.

Only the parties in the know on merchandising, team management really know the answer to that.

Even the idea of using it as a sub brand is endearing to me. You have hite SparkyZ, Los Angeles Lakers, but so many ESPORTS organizations are content to use plainer branding like Evil Genius or Quantic. I guess I just tend to be more of a 'Gama Bears' naming philosophy type of person. And Complexity ROOT scratches that itch.

Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-09 23:17:56
May 09 2012 23:17 GMT
#8
I found an old interview on the issue of sub-branding:




01:23:00 "I'll never allow a team in EG with another name." - SirScoots
Thank God and gunrun.
Thrill
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
2599 Posts
May 09 2012 23:37 GMT
#9
'Cause Idra called it "rut".
MegaBuster
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
167 Posts
May 09 2012 23:40 GMT
#10
Great find.

I'm not exactly convinced that you can't put forth a sub-brand or recycle it in some way that it doesn't steal focus from the main brand. But I certainly see the difficulties.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13410 Posts
May 10 2012 00:10 GMT
#11
On May 10 2012 08:40 MegaBuster wrote:
Great find.

I'm not exactly convinced that you can't put forth a sub-brand or recycle it in some way that it doesn't steal focus from the main brand. But I certainly see the difficulties.


We need to keep in mind that complexity has been a huge team in the competitive gaming/esports scene for a very very long time all the way back to CS 1.6 and im sure even earlier.

So to them, rebranding or sub branding wouldn't be good. However, the complexity sc2 team is comprised by primarily Root members in NA and the players still have the same personality they did in the past.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
May 10 2012 01:36 GMT
#12
On May 10 2012 09:10 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 08:40 MegaBuster wrote:
Great find.

I'm not exactly convinced that you can't put forth a sub-brand or recycle it in some way that it doesn't steal focus from the main brand. But I certainly see the difficulties.


We need to keep in mind that complexity has been a huge team in the competitive gaming/esports scene for a very very long time all the way back to CS 1.6 and im sure even earlier.

So to them, rebranding or sub branding wouldn't be good. However, the complexity sc2 team is comprised by primarily Root members in NA and the players still have the same personality they did in the past.


Their fighting game division is complexity.crosscounter so they're not against doing it, but we don't know the particular details of the deal. Keep in mind col's sc2 division doesn't just features root members, even when they were first acquired and the whole of root did not go across so it might have just been a decision not to make a point of it.
Adebisi
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1637 Posts
May 10 2012 03:10 GMT
#13
On May 10 2012 08:17 Primadog wrote:
I found an old interview on the issue of sub-branding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKcLD49oxyc


01:23:00 "I'll never allow a team in EG with another name." - SirScoots

Complexity is totally different, look at their roster, the FG players are basically known as Complexity.CrossCounter.

Its an interesting topic, if you look up the VOD of ESFI's End Game with Jason Bass, they briefly touch on the topic of sub-branding, but don't actually discuss ROOT IIIRC. Still an interesting topic, and worth listening to.

I thought about this some myself as well, and ultimately I came to the conclusion for Complexity the brand CrossCounter, has much more to offer than ROOT, and its simply a business decision.

I also imagine that its a big possibly that CatZ/Drewbie wanted to keep ROOT as ROOT, it is what it was, they might not want to make it something new.
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
May 10 2012 04:33 GMT
#14
While I miss root a lot, they were such a good team, however they couldn't get sponsers. I don't think a team in a team should have there own name, it's silly. When you are getting paid by a team you should wear the tag. Root gaming and I have such fond memories. They were the only team that really interacted with fans, in there own clan channel catz would sit around and talk to people in there while laddering. But yeah nice post.
ROOTCatZ
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Peru1232 Posts
May 10 2012 14:02 GMT
#15
wow amazing read, thanks for this
Progamerwww.root-gaming.com
fabulously
Profile Joined November 2010
Norway724 Posts
May 13 2012 11:59 GMT
#16
Enjoyed reading this very much. Thanks for posting! Brought back so many memories from the Root days.
Welcome back ROOT-gaming - you were never forgotten <3
bcolby20
Profile Joined March 2012
United States16 Posts
May 16 2012 20:05 GMT
#17
our prayers have been answered, boys. i am so damn happy about them getting back together.


Destiny is the icing on the cake for me ♥♥
"There's no 'I' in team, but there is a 'u' in cunt"
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
May 16 2012 20:13 GMT
#18
Well, that's certainly one way to bring the ROOT brand back.
Thank God and gunrun.
imanoobcs
Profile Joined January 2012
184 Posts
May 16 2012 20:43 GMT
#19
This article was so well timed. Im happy ROOT is back.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#122
Reynor vs LamboLIVE!
RotterdaM844
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 844
mouzHeroMarine 544
UpATreeSC 124
BRAT_OK 69
ZombieGrub40
CosmosSc2 37
JuggernautJason22
SteadfastSC 12
MindelVK 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2053
GuemChi 1843
firebathero 156
HiyA 76
Sexy 38
NaDa 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Dota 2
qojqva3432
Counter-Strike
fl0m1156
ScreaM896
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox289
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu295
Other Games
tarik_tv4195
Grubby2416
Beastyqt691
B2W.Neo479
shahzam444
XaKoH 226
Livibee82
QueenE56
Trikslyr55
mouzStarbuck3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2114
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV517
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 78
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 22
• 80smullet 20
• blackmanpl 14
• Michael_bg 9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade862
Other Games
• imaqtpie944
• Shiphtur394
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 46m
RSL Revival
13h 46m
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
14h 46m
Epic.LAN
17h 46m
IPSL
20h 46m
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
1d 13h
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
OSC
1d 17h
IPSL
1d 20h
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Escore Tournament S3: W3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.