EPTNo one chooses to be who they are - Page 2
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Wampaibist
United States478 Posts
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Spikeke
Canada106 Posts
On May 05 2012 09:11 AegonC wrote: As do I. The difference is that I believe that one can't be held morally responsible for that choice. Anyone would have made the choice if they were in the evil-doer's shoes. Fortunately your feelings are not an accurate representation of reality. As many replies state, environment is not the sole variable for structuring beliefs and actions. People have conscious and free thought. You keep bringing up the case, that no matter who you are, you will do the same act as anyone else, in any situation. Even if I were in some "evil-doer's" shoes, I would still have a choice, and I would be responsible for that choice. Excusing your actions because someone else would have done the same thing, does not make it morally right. Take a basic 101 Biology and/or Psychology course if you wish to learn more. The subject has already been studied and analyzed extensively. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
On May 05 2012 08:40 AegonC wrote: When I think of the word, "bad", a few things come to mind: terrorists, criminals, liars... I'm beating a dead horse now, but none of those "bad" people chose to be bad, they were in victims of culture. Assuming I grant you everything in your post...so what? Just because "bad" people aren't bad they just do bad stuff...we should...what? I'm all for compassion and such for everybody. I swear, if compassion were sweat, I'd look like Patrick Ewing...but we still need to remove people who do bad things from society so as not to disrupt it. | ||
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Apom
France655 Posts
On May 05 2012 08:40 AegonC wrote:I just felt like writing my feelings on this matter to let it out. Please post your feelings on the matter. I agree with you, there is no free will and we have no choice over what we are. Modern empirical sciences are also starting to prove that our lives are pre-determined to such an extent that children conceived doggy-style will do better in school than those conceived in the missionary position.... Seriously, what the fuck ? 1/5. | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
Your environment can assist in shaping you, but it doesn't make you. It's like adaptation vs evolution in nature. Your environment will help shape certain tendencies, but only you decide who you are. | ||
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PassionFruit
294 Posts
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AegonC
United States260 Posts
We aren't at the wheel in the proverbial car of life. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:10 AegonC wrote: I think my statements have been misconstrued. The intent of my writing isn't to justify laziness. I believe that every decision a person makes can be traced to some gene, some event in their past that caused them to make that decision. We aren't at the wheel in the proverbial car of life. So if someone robs you, it's not their fault? What's your address? I assume you won't press charges. This post can be directly attributed to 98% of my brain cells shutting down in self defense at the assertion that we aren't responsible for our own actions. + Show Spoiler + No actual threat implied, merely making a point. | ||
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AegonC
United States260 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:14 JingleHell wrote: So if someone robs you, it's not their fault? What's your address? I assume you won't press charges. This post can be directly attributed to 98% of my brain cells shutting down in self defense at the assertion that we aren't responsible for our own actions. + Show Spoiler + No actual threat implied, merely making a point. If you robbed me, I would press charges, but I couldn't judge you and say "I'm a better person", because I didn't mature in your circumstances. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:17 AegonC wrote: If you robbed me, I would press charges, but I couldn't judge you and say "I'm a better person", because I didn't mature in your circumstances. But if it's not my fault, you should press charges against my parents. But they're not responsible for how they raised me, so blame theirs. Except most of them are dead... dammit, this is getting confusing. If we're religious, do we file charges against the Pope? Or just some lower bishop? And if we're not religious, do we blame those stupid chimps? | ||
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
Lets look at the easiest example, gangsters. Gang's is not something some middle/high class American decides one day "Hey i wanna be in gang!" Its mostly low class who see no other opportunity. But not every person in say Detroit will become a gangster is there a high percentage? Yes, but if you looked at each and every person who joined vs didn't join they wouldn't be to far off. In my very personal opinion i can't ever view Destiny or God as a real thing. Every action i make is decided by me and me alone, the thought that some higher being is controlling me or it has been all planned out is ludicrous to me. I see Pre-determinism as sort of an excuse for why something happened instead of just accepting the fact and moving on, Of course this is all me opinion. | ||
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Spekulatius
Germany2413 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:19 JingleHell wrote: But if it's not my fault, you should press charges against my parents. But they're not responsible for how they raised me, so blame theirs. Except most of them are dead... dammit, this is getting confusing. If we're religious, do we file charges against the Pope? Or just some lower bishop? And if we're not religious, do we blame those stupid chimps? We blame nobody. That's the crux of his whole story. I also don't see anyone refuting OP's opinion. He obviously forgot to mention the genetic influence on people's behavior in the original post - which brought up those silly analogies of "swap person A with B; B wouldn't have ended up the same way" - but I don't see anyone disproving his thesis. I do somehow get the people saying "that's just an excuse for being lazy and acting irresponsibly". OP's post might seem like the most simple way out of taking responsibility for one's actions. But that doesn't mean it isn't true. The whole "god" analogy that was mentioned isn't bad actually. We're not in a situation to completely understand the process of decision making in the human brain, so it's impossible to refute or prove free will. Science has only given pointers so far which interestingly tend more and more towards supporting determinism. | ||
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AegonC
United States260 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:25 DreamChaser wrote: In my very personal opinion i can't ever view Destiny or God as a real thing. Every action i make is decided by me and me alone, the thought that some higher being is controlling me or it has been all planned out is ludicrous to me. I see Pre-determinism as sort of an excuse for why something happened instead of just accepting the fact and moving on, Of course this is all me opinion. I'm not saying that Destiny and/or God pre determines everything and controls you. I believe it has more to do with culture and genes etc. Nor am I saying that pre-determinism is an excuse for evil or laziness. I'm merely voicing my thoughts on a confusing sort of paradox that I've been thinking about recently. | ||
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Mothra
United States1448 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:26 Spekulatius wrote: I also don't see anyone refuting OP's opinion. He obviously forgot to mention the genetic influence on people's behavior in the original post - which brought up those silly analogies of "swap person A with B; B wouldn't have ended up the same way" - but I don't see anyone disproving his thesis. Because it can't be disproven. No matter how many examples people may give for or against, there may exist some exception now or in the future. The burden of proof lies on the OP because he is claiming a supposed truth applicable to ALL people, but is too lazy to further develop his ideas apparently. | ||
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Spekulatius
Germany2413 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:41 Mothra wrote: Because it can't be disproven. No matter how many examples people may give for or against, there may exist some exception now or in the future. The burden of proof lies on the OP because he is claiming a supposed truth applicable to ALL people, but is too lazy to further develop his ideas apparently. Well, he's obviously no scientist or well read in that matter. I just find it funny how people are so assured of the contrary of what he's saying. Without themselves being able to prove anything. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:44 Spekulatius wrote: Well, he's obviously no scientist or well read in that matter. I just find it funny how people are so assured of the contrary of what he's saying. Without themselves being able to prove anything. It's not our fault, we're predisposed to being contrary. Baby we were...+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Spekulatius
Germany2413 Posts
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Leth0
856 Posts
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