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OP very true.
Unfortunately, most people who read the OP will misinterpret what you're saying. Many people strongly believe that their "free will" is something unique and special, and that criminals and lazy people are that way because they are just bad people.
Yes, criminals should be punished. But if "you" were "them", you would have committed the exact same crime. You aren't special, and your "free will" isn't special, either. The world is not divided into good people, and bad people.
If you study hard and do well on a test, that's just who you are - your work ethic and intelligence afforded you the ability to do so. If someone doesn't work hard, and scores badly, well, that's just who they are.
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I agree with the OP, but I don't share the tone of his view. I think it's kind of cool that we're just a product of influences and genes. It makes the human race a huge ass tangled web or ball of influences that is so complex that we can't really decipher it. Sure, while we can't choose who we are, everything is so complicated that it doesn't make a difference. And then they got modern physics and shit which just makes everything so much more weird.
I don't really think any of us should be dwelling excessively on a negative metaphysical philosophy when there is still so much cool shit to be discovered. I guess I just like to view the human race as some superorganism and accept that I'm just a part of it.
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I guess the reason why people are so averse to this idea is that it gives irresponsible people excuses-that its not their fault but rather its the fault of their environment, genetics, etc.
But Its not anger you should feel but rather pity. That means that they were meant to fail and irresponsible and etc. and they are just inferior human beings in the society we live in. The society, consequently ,was meant to be created this way so irresponsible people can't say they would've been better in any other society or environment. The society we have is the accumulation of thousands of years of correcting itself to what it should look like. If you are successful, you should be glad because you were chosen to be that way.
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On May 05 2012 10:44 Spekulatius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:41 Mothra wrote:On May 05 2012 10:26 Spekulatius wrote:
I also don't see anyone refuting OP's opinion. He obviously forgot to mention the genetic influence on people's behavior in the original post - which brought up those silly analogies of "swap person A with B; B wouldn't have ended up the same way" - but I don't see anyone disproving his thesis.
Because it can't be disproven. No matter how many examples people may give for or against, there may exist some exception now or in the future. The burden of proof lies on the OP because he is claiming a supposed truth applicable to ALL people, but is too lazy to further develop his ideas apparently. Well, he's obviously no scientist or well read in that matter. I just find it funny how people are so assured of the contrary of what he's saying. Without themselves being able to prove anything.
Oh, my post was very clear. There were too many errors to have the time to point out. I listed what, 7 broad categorical problems with his thinking? But I have a final in 40 minutes - maybe I'll get to it later.
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On May 06 2012 04:22 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:44 Spekulatius wrote:On May 05 2012 10:41 Mothra wrote:On May 05 2012 10:26 Spekulatius wrote:
I also don't see anyone refuting OP's opinion. He obviously forgot to mention the genetic influence on people's behavior in the original post - which brought up those silly analogies of "swap person A with B; B wouldn't have ended up the same way" - but I don't see anyone disproving his thesis.
Because it can't be disproven. No matter how many examples people may give for or against, there may exist some exception now or in the future. The burden of proof lies on the OP because he is claiming a supposed truth applicable to ALL people, but is too lazy to further develop his ideas apparently. Well, he's obviously no scientist or well read in that matter. I just find it funny how people are so assured of the contrary of what he's saying. Without themselves being able to prove anything. Oh, my post was very clear. There were too many errors to have the time to point out. I listed what, 7 broad categorical problems with his thinking? But I have a final in 40 minutes - maybe I'll get to it later.
you have a final on a Saturday? I feel bad for you 
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This thread is chock full of hope and inspiration.......
I have several things to say on this matter; but I wouldn't for the simple reason that this isn't an academic setting, and nothing positive can be gained from such debates here on a gaming forum. I've seen to many of these sort of blogs come and go; and have seen very little intellectual growth or stimulation come from them.
This is a good topic to discuss, sadly I don't think TL is the best place to get a well balanced discussion on the matter.
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lol, I love these type of topics.
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, and there are unknown unknows... that last bit is the part that fucks everything up and is why no matter how 'right' you feel you can ultimately never be wholly certain of ultimate truth.
Laws and justice and all that nonsense, as described by Plato over 2000 years ago, are simply the will of the strong over the weak... marinate on that for a bit.
But ultimately your whole argument fails because the environment and the person are one in the same.... they are linked and cannot exist without each other. I'll try to illustrate it with a thought experiment.
Try to imagine a person with no environment.
You may imagine a person in a black void of nothingness and you might say... 'there i did it' but you cannot escape the fact that this person is living in your head(environment)... it is impossible for this person to live free of you.
Where does the environment end and you begin? Your skull, your brain, your body, is that you or part of the environment?
To save you trouble, you're going to ultimately ask where am I? Who is me? If you're incredibly lucky you'll catch a glimpse of the divine and everything will make sense.
There is a major drawback to this mindset though. You become essentially a God and everything that happens in the universe is your fault... this sounds crazy... and believe me when I say this is where crazy begins and everything else ends.
For the record I'm not a hippie... I just call it as I see it.
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EPT
