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So I completely missed the Dota train years ago when it started to catch on fire. While my friends were enjoying like 15+ games of dota a day (and night) I was playing WoW and CS. Now that Dota 2 is here and ALL of my friends are playing it, I'm left feeling like a huge noobie.
Every game of Dota I enter I almost always end up with a hero I have never played and have no idea how to play it. Often I'm reduced to tabbing out and frantically reading over a guide on what to buy for the hero and what skills I should max out first. But it doesn't help my absolute inexperience with the game and complete lack of game sense...
What's worse is that my friends tend to get frustrated when I end up with certain heroes that play a crucial role in the game, like Earthshaker to initiate fights, or just any carry because I don't have the know-hows to be a really good carry. Like I know that they understand that I'm completely new to the game but it still hurts when I hear them feel frustrated when I screw up a stun, over extend, or completely miss an opportunity to get a kill.
When we play SC2 team games together I don't really mind losing at all because we all know that 1v1 is where the competitive action is all at, plus I feel very comfortable since I have a deeper understanding of timings and unit compositions since I mainly play 1v1.
Has anyone else experienced this kind of situation before? When you walk into a well established game with a skilled community as a complete newb? I mean I feel almost hopeless whenever I enter a new game, there's so much information to take in and when my teammates turn around and face-palm behind my back its pretty discouraging. I just don't know if I can get through it. Now that I think about it I'm very lucky to have played some broodwar, because then I wouldn't have to deal with learning everything from scratch when SC2 made its debut. I never touched the platinum, gold, silver, or bronze ladder since I got the game in beta.
But don't get me wrong, there are moments where I shine and its fun when we win a team fight (doesn't happen often though LOL) and my farm is slowly improving, although I have no idea how to gauge how good my farm is in-game...
Well that's all for my sad life in Dota. I'm that guy you don't want on your team, so this what it's like from that person's perspective. Although I've learned quite a bit since I've started I'm still pretty useless except for some occasions, but I hope one day I'll be able to make some "Big Plays". I hope some of you guys can direct me to a nice guide, because the ones I'm reading aren't teaching me all essential information I need to develop a good game sense for the game.
 
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Sounds like you should make some custom games to at least try out each hero once if you haven't already done so. For many heroes once you read the skills over once you can tell what skill build you should go for.
Past that it sounds like you should be playing solo queue to be matched with people more around your skill level rather than play with your friends if they get frustrated with your play. It would be like jumping into a hockey game with your friends when you've never used a hockey stick and your friends expect you to pull your weight.
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haha when i first began playing dota i was constantly feeding...like 10-15 deaths per game. because every team member plays such a crucial role in dota, it's much easier to get pissed off than in other games. e.g. in sc2 if u have a good teammate, he can still win the game for you even if 1 person sucks on your team. but in dota if u keep dying you make the other team stronger. theres no real solution except keep playing and getting experience, watch some streams etc
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My general approach to this situation has always been:
1. Pick something with range.
2. Stand in the back and shoot things.
3. Run away when in doubt.
But besides that, the best thing to do if you're aren't good, is to not suck. Play super safe so you don't feed the enemy team kills, ask someone who is better than you what items to buy situationally, and follow your team around. It also helps to play one hero all the time so you can focus on learning the game without being distracted by what to buy and what your abilities do.
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Dota 2 has a really helpful bots feature where you can play vs the AI to get your footing in the game, you can play it as many times as you want so play a few heroes in there, then you can play those heroes with your buddies!
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Hope you can improve fast, you're bringing shame to our name :D
I would recommend sticking to a few heroes and improving your play with those first..maybe stick to range heroes/easier heroes (lich should be pretty easy to pick up). The rest just comes from experience I guess. Also I wouldn't recommend playing an initiation hero since they have such a pivotal role in deciding the team battles and that's a little too much pressure for a beginner...
Best of luck!
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So you're playing from behind here, what you need is to do some catching up. When you learn all the heroes and items(a must if you want do be any good) and the basic mechanics of dota(which mean how the game works here) everything else is just matter of thinking logically for a moment. You won't overextend when you know what enemy heroes that are missing(map awareness is easy for sc2 players) are capable of and,more to the point, what you are capable of. You have friends that know the game, maybe make a coaching sesion with the most patient one where he just drops knowledge on you while you test heroes in test mode. Also watch pros playing, dota is all about small things and that's where you pick'em up
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The most important thing to learn really is effective range. Think of each enemy hero like you might a siege tank. They have a range which they can be effective. You have to consider this range including all sorts of abilities like blink or how creeps/trees break up the range, it's not just a circle around a hero. Now at any point anytime you can see a hero you want to think "Am I in that range or out of it." If you're out of it then you should be safe (not including invis/fog of war), otherwise you're in danger. Anytime you're in someone's effective range you need to evaluate if you're in a situation where you're stronger. If that guy goes in and stuns/attacks/whatever will you come out on top? If you don't know then almost always take the safer choice and back out or do what your ally does.
Then extend that concept to fog and map awareness, you need to be aware of the minimap just like SC2, but you need to extrapolate more than you do in SC2. If you see something enter fog in a way that could threaten you eventually you need to keep track of how long until they're able to get to you. Again play with a conservative mindset if you don't know, back up or follow the lead of your allies.
Once you get effective range and map awareness down you should stop dying/feeding so much then you can start worrying about farming, big plays, and all that.
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I would play support until you understand every character in the game, sounds kinda lame but its the right thing to do lol. Also your friends wouldn't get as mad if play the support.
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Play by urself until ur not a detriment to ur friends. the worst thing is if they resent u for sucking at a video game etc. play to get better not to have a better score, try out every hero, look over items. simply reading what a hero doesnt isnt enough, u have to physically play it to get the hang of it
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Trust me, there are plenty of people at your skill level, it's just you're queuing with your friends who have played for a long time so what do you expect?
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Take it from me, I taught lots of people to play dota over the years, and took a group of COMPLETE newbs [ 0 experience, war3 not even installed ] to competitive level.
The best ways to learn and become comfortable with serious dota:
1. Get someone irl to teach you. Stand behind you and teach you. Just talk about it, even outside the game.
2. If someone is unavailable irl then the next best is a patient teacher online who has played a long time willing to dick around with you in a private game 1v1 and just show you the basics. Just like in CS you need someone to show you flash bounce spots, where to spam, how to angle yourself at a corner etc.... You need someone who completely rapes you at last hitting or whatever to train against. Or you need someone to tell you WHEN and HOW to ward etc..
3. Pick 1 role that you wanna be good at and just stick to learning that role. Learn all the in and outs and responsibilities of that role. Learn all the heroes that ' generally ' follow under that role. If you excel at this 1 role it will enable you to learn about other roles, the overall game, and most importantly people will want to play with you because you are known to be dependable at that role. There are many top tier pros who are not even past this step. If you can do 1 role and do it well people will play with you.
I suggest you not pick a gamebreaker like an initiator or a late-game carry. Ask your group of friends to pick around you, since you are the least experienced...It makes sense to play an overlap stunner like a earthshaker or a range helper like lich.
I believe that's objectively the best way to get out of your situation. On a more personal opinion, if I can make an analogy. It's better to learn how to play this game in the long term like macro games in starcraft than to be aggressive all the time. If you learn the borders of what you can and cannot do defensively, then you will learn how to handle the majority of situations. If you are always playing aggressively to learn you will only learn that it will work or it won't. You won't learn how to play from behind which is very important. This is a totally different topic but it should be your long term goal.
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Don't feel too bad. You just need to put more time into it. Skill develops over time, it's the same with everyone. And the whole "u either got it or you dont" logic is flawed. If you really like something, and take the time to understand every little spec of science behind it you'll excell no doubt.
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Ah, learning dota, the only enjoyable activity where you feel like a retard for 200-300 games. And a slightly less dumb, but still dumbstruck feeling for the next 200, and maybe once you hit the 1k games mark you feel some sense of understanding of the game, only to be handed your ass by some pro 
If you have specific issues that you need to work on, I'm sure people can help.
IMO the following is a list of dota concepts (in no particular order) that one needs to become familiar with:
- Lane control
- Zoning
- Range check
- Juking, map knowledge
- Animations
- Map awareness
- Items, abilities
- Ward control
- Jungle control
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On May 04 2012 07:37 Ack1027 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Take it from me, I taught lots of people to play dota over the years, and took a group of COMPLETE newbs [ 0 experience, war3 not even installed ] to competitive level.
The best ways to learn and become comfortable with serious dota:
1. Get someone irl to teach you. Stand behind you and teach you. Just talk about it, even outside the game.
2. If someone is unavailable irl then the next best is a patient teacher online who has played a long time willing to dick around with you in a private game 1v1 and just show you the basics. Just like in CS you need someone to show you flash bounce spots, where to spam, how to angle yourself at a corner etc.... You need someone who completely rapes you at last hitting or whatever to train against. Or you need someone to tell you WHEN and HOW to ward etc..
3. Pick 1 role that you wanna be good at and just stick to learning that role. Learn all the in and outs and responsibilities of that role. Learn all the heroes that ' generally ' follow under that role. If you excel at this 1 role it will enable you to learn about other roles, the overall game, and most importantly people will want to play with you because you are known to be dependable at that role. There are many top tier pros who are not even past this step. If you can do 1 role and do it well people will play with you.
I suggest you not pick a gamebreaker like an initiator or a late-game carry. Ask your group of friends to pick around you, since you are the least experienced...It makes sense to play an overlap stunner like a earthshaker or a range helper like lich.
I believe that's objectively the best way to get out of your situation. On a more personal opinion, if I can make an analogy. It's better to learn how to play this game in the long term like macro games in starcraft than to be aggressive all the time. If you learn the borders of what you can and cannot do defensively, then you will learn how to handle the majority of situations. If you are always playing aggressively to learn you will only learn that it will work or it won't. You won't learn how to play from behind which is very important. This is a totally different topic but it should be your long term goal.
QFT. When I started playing dota about shit.. 5 years ago I was an auto attacking boots and tangoes noob. Met a dude at uni who played competitively and he taught me a lot more than I would have ever learned on my own. We would play in the same room and when I fucked up he would tell me immediately which while humbling is actually very useful and that's #2. Too many people who play dota aren't open minded enough to improve. They have their way of playing and even if they're objectively going retarded skill/item builds won't listen. It doesn't sound like you have that issue yet but something to keep in mind ^_^
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Yea the matchmaking is just arranged right now so that if you queue in a big party ( and probably your friends have a lot of games played and wins if they are experienced players) then you'll get matched in a relatively higher level game with players that have played the game for years. That's for good balance reason otherwise you'll have stacks bullying solo queuers.
But the best thing you can do in your own time is play on your own or with bots or queue with one of your more patient friends. There are plenty of newbies around actually. I am playing with a friend who started from scratch and since his account is brand new, we get matched with people who seems relatively new to the game as well. Then i can just teach him while letting him have fun and not get overwhelmed by everything.
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the best dota teacher I've ever had is dead9. He's pretty much a dota god and he'll teach you everything you need to know. I do not recommend rabidch because all he does is dodge.
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Thanks for all the advice guys, I'm surprised by all the advice, and it's really useful stuff since its different from the usual stuff I see in dota 2 guides.
My friends have a loooot of experience in dota 2 so I guess i'll have to avoid playing with them for a while. None of them are very patient lol.
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I started playing moba's in the HoN beta, and had no idea what I was doing.
My method was to just play the one hero (Support is probably the best way - something with stuns or hexes) and familiarise myself with other heroes just by playing against them.
Items were another thing, but something you just get used to I guess.
Work on things one by one, not just try to get better at everything at once, that's the method I felt best.
For example, get used to last hitting / denying, before you try to harrass too much in lanes, etc.
Playing a lot is the best way to get better faster 
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1st try to ask them for advices on certain item builds and skill builds. And Look for some guides on Playdota, it would certainly help you out for different heroes. As for Last hitting, It is very important so what I did back in 2007-ish was play a certain hero and practice getting many creeps before hitting the 10 minute mark, That also includes denies and Stop-Postition is oftentimes used to get better last hits. Also Map awareness like if your on a lane and someone from the other lanes is missing or there are no hero icons on the map then back immediately there will be a high chance that you will be ganked. Also Don't Play CM mode yet, It will be hard for Beginners. :D
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Try all the heroes. SHould be fun
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Buy Ironwood Branches = Profit
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United States719 Posts
I started playing DotA since WC3:RoC, so I've been in the scene for a while. It's natural that everyone starts out shitty. For me, I was so interested in the game, that I would go online and read hero guides and builds and put it into practice the next time I would play. Now, there's a lot easier access to things like that, such as joinDota website, or the Youtube video guides for heroes by DotaCinema. If you keep your interest in it, and have a real desire to become better, you will.
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konadora
Singapore66161 Posts
you sound like the guy people always pick last in class sports games ;~;
try watching some pro-games that are casted, you may understand the game better!
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dota is hard to pick up. honestly just play with ur friends and pick it up
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Ask your friends to help you learn? Honestly they shouldn't be getting frustrated with you. They know you're new and should be trying to teach you stuff at every turn.
Also watching pro games is definitely good advice. You'll be able to see exactly what heros are capable of, although the level of teamwork pro teams display will be something you won't get with your average everyday pubs.
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EPT
