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On May 03 2012 06:56 Badinoff wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 05:52 ymir233 wrote:
Urhm...
Well I like just having more people watch the same thing with me.
But disregarding sportsE, what exactly are we trying to protect when we set up rules and regulations for behaviors in non-tournament settings? This. If Destiny goes and calls his opponent a gook during a live tournament, then yes there should be nonzero consequences. Random ladder games are not live tournaments and he can say what he damn well pleases (within the bounds of the SC2 TOS).
You haven't even grasped whats actually at issue here. If what he says in a ladder game is made public than people who are offended have every right to damn well say what they please to his sponsors. Your idea of no consequences is ignorant and completely lacking in perspective of how things work in the real world.
If I go onto a crowded street corner and start yelling about the martians its predictable that I'll be heckled at some point. If Destiny types racial slurs at people after getting cheesed than yes they will be offended and are perfectly within their rights to talk to his team, sponsors, etc. to see if they will punish him. Whether this will actually have any consequences, given that he makes his revenue from stream, or whether they should be offended at all is an entirely separate question.
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Something that gets on my nerves is, "I've got 100 posts so I'm now obligated to give back to the community!" No you're not, if you have nothing valuable to contribute, or no actual self-desire to create something, don't. Don't feel pressured in to feeling you have to, just because JoeBlogs123 (dat pun) does it.
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On May 03 2012 07:36 zawk9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 06:56 Badinoff wrote:On May 03 2012 05:52 ymir233 wrote:
Urhm...
Well I like just having more people watch the same thing with me.
But disregarding sportsE, what exactly are we trying to protect when we set up rules and regulations for behaviors in non-tournament settings? This. If Destiny goes and calls his opponent a gook during a live tournament, then yes there should be nonzero consequences. Random ladder games are not live tournaments and he can say what he damn well pleases (within the bounds of the SC2 TOS). You haven't even grasped whats actually at issue here. If what he says in a ladder game is made public than people who are offended have every right to damn well say what they please to his sponsors. Your idea of no consequences is ignorant and completely lacking in perspective of how things work in the real world. If I go onto a crowded street corner and start yelling about the martians its predictable that I'll be heckled at some point. If Destiny types racial slurs at people after getting cheesed than yes they will be offended and are perfectly within their rights to talk to his team, sponsors, etc. to see if they will punish him. Whether this will actually have any consequences, given that he makes his revenue from stream, or whether they should be offended at all is an entirely separate question.
Well...yes, you'd be right, nobody likes to get heckled at from the street. But I don't get how Destiny raging like every other gamer while gaming on his own stream is akin to the 'streetside pastor' experience. You don't have to walk by the stream, nor is it inefficient to turn off the stream and view something else, nor is it impossible to mute the stream or just look at something else while he's raging, unlike in the street example.
EDIT: Again, in a non-tournament perspective, it'd be quite like having a Google employee after work sitting on a bench in a park kicking a dog. The dog owner wouldn't go to Google to complain, even if he did know that the employee was from Google. The dog owner would simply complain to the employee. Now whether the employee listens...
EDIT 2: Yet again, I'm saying that one would most likely have a right to it, just like in a lot of things. Is it a sensible thing to complain to QG/Google (in my analogy)? Probably not...
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On May 02 2012 10:20 Gheed wrote:
And then, when everything is gone, when all the pathetic aspirations and all the illusions that esports will ever be big or important are stripped away, we can finally get back to why we came to this website in the first place: because we like playing video games. Maybe, in the future, that video game won't be Starcraft, maybe it won't even be a Blizzard game—I'm not sure they even deserve our support anymore—but maybe, for our sake, it'll be a good game.
There are perhaps 3 games you could call "esports". There are however tens of thousands of excellent games that are not esports. So if you hate esports, why pick one of the extremely rare titles that is part of esports? Why not pick something like Quake World, which is a terrific game, has a competitive scene with people who love the game, yet no money in it?
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On May 03 2012 07:21 AoWInSomNiac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 23:30 FryBender wrote:
This is what I got out of this Blog:
"WAH WAH I hate that SC2 has a mature community that actually gets outraged at the fact that someone used a racial slur. Why can't TL be more like 4Chan. why I'd be King among Men with my platinum skills that I use to beat down on people who aren't as good as me and make fun of them for it."
I have been playing video games longer then a lot of people here have been alive (which makes me no more or less special than anyone else) and I've never joined any gaming community precisely because the vocal majority of all of them has been populated by people like Destiny who's only purpose in playing a game is to call someone else a f*g as loud as they can. Imagine my surprise when I found TL. A community that's about more then just 13 year olds getting off by saying dirty things on the internet. I honestly couldn't care less about Esports, it's just not my thing but if it means that the community is forced to mature a little bit then I don't see how that can be a bad thing. You'll always have 4chan. Incredibly off-base and ill-informed. You're one of the people this post is directed to. Grow up.
I'm sorry but I need to grow up? Please explain to me how I'm off-base and ill-informed? Gheed specifically referenced the Destiny incident in writing this blog. He said that he was pissed off that people were making a big deal about the fact that Destiny uses racial slurs because it was bad for ESPORTS. I point out that if that's his reason for being upset about sponsor being involved then he can always go back to hanging out with 14 year olds who find that stuff hilarious just like Gheed apparently does. That's what 4chan is for. So please explain to me how I was off base
On May 03 JackDT wrote:
If deliberately calling people gooks, faggots, niggers, to be as hurtful as possible with your insults is 'gaming culture' then fuck gaming culture.
Couldn't have said it better if I tried
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On May 03 2012 07:52 ymir233 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:36 zawk9 wrote:On May 03 2012 06:56 Badinoff wrote:On May 03 2012 05:52 ymir233 wrote:
Urhm...
Well I like just having more people watch the same thing with me.
But disregarding sportsE, what exactly are we trying to protect when we set up rules and regulations for behaviors in non-tournament settings? This. If Destiny goes and calls his opponent a gook during a live tournament, then yes there should be nonzero consequences. Random ladder games are not live tournaments and he can say what he damn well pleases (within the bounds of the SC2 TOS). You haven't even grasped whats actually at issue here. If what he says in a ladder game is made public than people who are offended have every right to damn well say what they please to his sponsors. Your idea of no consequences is ignorant and completely lacking in perspective of how things work in the real world. If I go onto a crowded street corner and start yelling about the martians its predictable that I'll be heckled at some point. If Destiny types racial slurs at people after getting cheesed than yes they will be offended and are perfectly within their rights to talk to his team, sponsors, etc. to see if they will punish him. Whether this will actually have any consequences, given that he makes his revenue from stream, or whether they should be offended at all is an entirely separate question. Well...yes, you'd be right, nobody likes to get heckled at from the street. But I don't get how Destiny raging like every other gamer while gaming on his own stream is akin to the 'streetside pastor' experience. You don't have to walk by the stream, nor is it inefficient to turn off the stream and view something else, nor is it impossible to mute the stream or just look at something else while he's raging, unlike in the street example. EDIT: Again, in a non-tournament perspective, it'd be quite like having a Google employee after work sitting on a bench in a park kicking a dog. The dog owner wouldn't go to Google to complain, even if he did know that the employee was from Google. The dog owner would simply complain to the employee. Now whether the employee listens...
When he's streaming on a public site where anyone can randomly click on his stream to watch it, and suddenly he bursts out with racial slurs and someone gets offended and complains is that not a legitimate claim? His job is clearly based on the internet, and he's always representing his team and sponsors through ads on his stream. Do his sponsors or team want to be represented by that type of behavior? Does own3d's sponsors want to represent that behavior?
Please realize that he has banners embedded in his streams interface constantly flipping between his team and sponsors. It's clear that he's representing them every second of his stream and it's not just a "personal" time, if it was, he wouldn't have them on there.
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United States33360 Posts
silly brood war elitists, who have adopted and warped the meaning of this blog to fuel their petty bitterness and sense of entitlement
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I think I know how you feel.
6 years ago I would have been interested in it but now I don't like how seriously "the scene" is taken. It's a lot of things I guess. People taking streams and other players too seriously, "MyEG.net" or whatever (seriously, "My EG"? lol), Hot Pockets and Old Spice advertizements, how closely it's modeled to fit the sports image, booth babes, player "beef", way over-the-top production, just a lot of embarrassing things.
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United States33360 Posts
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I love starcraft but I sort of dislike the overused word esports. Doesn't hinder me from enjoying starcraft though.
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lmao there is such a stark contrast between people in this thread.
you have established gamers like Jinro, EG.lectr who make fun of this whole rant
then, you have the casuals like the OP who enjoy making fun of new bronze players to help mend their egos that have been bruised by the fact they're platinum or something
If you are a casual player who deep inside knows he will never accomplish anything in the game, of course you will say "screw e-sports and those main-stream good players" I just want to play a competitive 1v1 game for "fun" ONLY rawr! *then goes back to watching pro gamers stream for 8 hours*
but otherwise, this blog just embodies a very annoying part of the SC community. they like to generlize EVERYONE as crybabies who cry "killing-esports this" or "hurting sponsors that".. when in reality, that is just the very vocal minority.
anyways, how about you stop condemning the community / forums that you spend so much fucking time paying attention too.. and just go do something else?
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On May 03 2012 08:12 MethodSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:52 ymir233 wrote:On May 03 2012 07:36 zawk9 wrote:On May 03 2012 06:56 Badinoff wrote:On May 03 2012 05:52 ymir233 wrote:
Urhm...
Well I like just having more people watch the same thing with me.
But disregarding sportsE, what exactly are we trying to protect when we set up rules and regulations for behaviors in non-tournament settings? This. If Destiny goes and calls his opponent a gook during a live tournament, then yes there should be nonzero consequences. Random ladder games are not live tournaments and he can say what he damn well pleases (within the bounds of the SC2 TOS). You haven't even grasped whats actually at issue here. If what he says in a ladder game is made public than people who are offended have every right to damn well say what they please to his sponsors. Your idea of no consequences is ignorant and completely lacking in perspective of how things work in the real world. If I go onto a crowded street corner and start yelling about the martians its predictable that I'll be heckled at some point. If Destiny types racial slurs at people after getting cheesed than yes they will be offended and are perfectly within their rights to talk to his team, sponsors, etc. to see if they will punish him. Whether this will actually have any consequences, given that he makes his revenue from stream, or whether they should be offended at all is an entirely separate question. Well...yes, you'd be right, nobody likes to get heckled at from the street. But I don't get how Destiny raging like every other gamer while gaming on his own stream is akin to the 'streetside pastor' experience. You don't have to walk by the stream, nor is it inefficient to turn off the stream and view something else, nor is it impossible to mute the stream or just look at something else while he's raging, unlike in the street example. EDIT: Again, in a non-tournament perspective, it'd be quite like having a Google employee after work sitting on a bench in a park kicking a dog. The dog owner wouldn't go to Google to complain, even if he did know that the employee was from Google. The dog owner would simply complain to the employee. Now whether the employee listens... When he's streaming on a public site where anyone can randomly click on his stream to watch it, and suddenly he bursts out with racial slurs and someone gets offended and complains is that not a legitimate claim? His job is clearly based on the internet, and he's always representing his team and sponsors through ads on his stream. Do his sponsors or team want to be represented by that type of behavior? Does own3d's sponsors want to represent that behavior? Please realize that he has banners embedded in his streams interface constantly flipping between his team and sponsors. It's clear that he's representing them every second of his stream and it's not just a "personal" time, if it was, he wouldn't have them on there.
Well then it's the same situation, except the Google employee has on a Google shirt and is carrying a Chromebook. Yea, Larry Page might not like that kinda guy, but he's not exactly kicking a dog in the middle of a Google coding competition, right? He's being his own person.
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On May 03 2012 08:10 Paladia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 10:20 Gheed wrote:
And then, when everything is gone, when all the pathetic aspirations and all the illusions that esports will ever be big or important are stripped away, we can finally get back to why we came to this website in the first place: because we like playing video games. Maybe, in the future, that video game won't be Starcraft, maybe it won't even be a Blizzard game—I'm not sure they even deserve our support anymore—but maybe, for our sake, it'll be a good game.
There are perhaps 3 games you could call "esports". There are however tens of thousands of excellent games that are not esports. So if you hate esports, why pick one of the extremely rare titles that is part of esports? Why not pick something like Quake World, which is a terrific game, has a competitive scene with people who love the game, yet no money in it?
Yeah, even if you only like RTS games, there are plenty of awesome games that get almost no attention. Company of Heroes, Men of War, European Escalation, Ruse, just to name a few recent ones that were great.
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yeah, i posted something similar when Incontrol did his "HELP ESPORTS, GUYS, LET'S MAKE THIS GLOBAL" blog post a few months back. treating it like a charity or ideology or like something actually meaningful ... i dunno
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thats a pathetic opinion.
1. You dont have to be evolved in esports at all, just play the game and dont care about the competition around it. No one forces you do be in esports.
2. Your text is a big load of "everything was better in the past". You are exactly like the WoW players who want wow vanilla back because everything was better at that time... rofl. Thats bullshit.
Seems like alot of people are falling for the same stupid train of thought like you.. thats just sad.
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On May 03 2012 08:21 ymir233 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:12 MethodSC wrote:On May 03 2012 07:52 ymir233 wrote:On May 03 2012 07:36 zawk9 wrote:On May 03 2012 06:56 Badinoff wrote:On May 03 2012 05:52 ymir233 wrote:
Urhm...
Well I like just having more people watch the same thing with me.
But disregarding sportsE, what exactly are we trying to protect when we set up rules and regulations for behaviors in non-tournament settings? This. If Destiny goes and calls his opponent a gook during a live tournament, then yes there should be nonzero consequences. Random ladder games are not live tournaments and he can say what he damn well pleases (within the bounds of the SC2 TOS). You haven't even grasped whats actually at issue here. If what he says in a ladder game is made public than people who are offended have every right to damn well say what they please to his sponsors. Your idea of no consequences is ignorant and completely lacking in perspective of how things work in the real world. If I go onto a crowded street corner and start yelling about the martians its predictable that I'll be heckled at some point. If Destiny types racial slurs at people after getting cheesed than yes they will be offended and are perfectly within their rights to talk to his team, sponsors, etc. to see if they will punish him. Whether this will actually have any consequences, given that he makes his revenue from stream, or whether they should be offended at all is an entirely separate question. Well...yes, you'd be right, nobody likes to get heckled at from the street. But I don't get how Destiny raging like every other gamer while gaming on his own stream is akin to the 'streetside pastor' experience. You don't have to walk by the stream, nor is it inefficient to turn off the stream and view something else, nor is it impossible to mute the stream or just look at something else while he's raging, unlike in the street example. EDIT: Again, in a non-tournament perspective, it'd be quite like having a Google employee after work sitting on a bench in a park kicking a dog. The dog owner wouldn't go to Google to complain, even if he did know that the employee was from Google. The dog owner would simply complain to the employee. Now whether the employee listens... When he's streaming on a public site where anyone can randomly click on his stream to watch it, and suddenly he bursts out with racial slurs and someone gets offended and complains is that not a legitimate claim? His job is clearly based on the internet, and he's always representing his team and sponsors through ads on his stream. Do his sponsors or team want to be represented by that type of behavior? Does own3d's sponsors want to represent that behavior? Please realize that he has banners embedded in his streams interface constantly flipping between his team and sponsors. It's clear that he's representing them every second of his stream and it's not just a "personal" time, if it was, he wouldn't have them on there. Well then it's the same situation, except the Google employee has on a Google shirt and is carrying a Chromebook. Yea, Larry Page might not like that kinda guy, but he's not exactly kicking a dog in the middle of a Google coding competition, right? He's being his own person.
His job is to play the game and represent his sponsors to make them money. All the money he gets from this is based from the fact that they think whatever he's doing in the community is going to make them money and represent their company.
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On May 03 2012 08:19 -Exalt- wrote:
lmao there is such a stark contrast between people in this thread.
you have established gamers like Jinro, EG.lectr who make fun of this whole rant
then, you have the casuals like the OP who enjoy making fun of new bronze players to help mend their egos that have been bruised by the fact they're platinum or something
If you are a casual player who deep inside knows he will never accomplish anything in the game, of course you will say "screw e-sports and those main-stream good players" I just want to play a competitive 1v1 game for "fun" ONLY rawr! *then goes back to watching pro gamers stream for 8 hours*
but otherwise, this blog just embodies a very annoying part of the SC community. they like to generlize EVERYONE as crybabies who cry "killing-esports this" or "hurting sponsors that".. when in reality, that is just the very vocal minority.
anyways, how about you stop condemning the community / forums that you spend so much fucking time paying attention too.. and just go do something else?
Here's another stark contrast in this thread - people who get it, and people who get it but pretend they don't because trivializing it is good for esports!
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Meh the term e-sport might be overused and irritating at this point but why you'd want sc2 to fail and companies to pull sponsorships is beyond me. When I was a nerdy little kid, sc:bw and the pro scene surrounding it was the coolest thing in the world and I loved the idea of gaming being accepted to a very large extent in Korean society. That didn't happen out of coincidence it was the result of a few people putting tears, blood and sweat into turning the thing they loved the most into something that would last and, as it happened, would be able to support a certain amount of full time players.
And by the way there are hundreds if not thousands of gaming communities fitting well with your description of a 'better' scene.
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I really enjoyed reading your Bronze League blogs but this is just tasteless.
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EPT
