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+ Show Spoiler [stuff about my blogs] +After writing my 1 year TL anniversary post I was inspired by some of the nice things people wrote to share my opinion more, I do think of stuff a lot (and in quite a bit of detail) and if I can just put that into writing, maybe some people will enjoy it, and that's a pretty good feeling. So if you enjoy this blog or not, it'd mean a lot if you could just leave your opinion, cos I wanna start writing these more.
This is a topic that has been beaten to death. This is not going to be a post by one of the "supporters", the "you go girl!" type that watch all female events and spend their time replying to every single hater in a thread. This is not going to be a hater post, saying that it's sexist that there's female only tournaments, or saying that females have no place in StarCraft. This is me sharing my opinion on why the female scene should be supported, but why it's supported for the wrong reasons.
I've thought about this for a while, and Scarlett really brought these thoughts to a conclusion. She was, in my eyes, the first female to actually be good enough to be considered a competitor in her own right. There have been other females that have been competitive, but the only reason people even know who they are is because they're female. I'm not going to name names because I don't want people to focus on that drama, but I don't think there's going to be anyone that would seriously argue against me saying that before Scarlett had her impressive IPL4 run, there was never a female considered a legitimate threat at an open tournament. Even if Scarlett was male, people would have noticed his run, maybe he would have scored an interview for how well he did. This hypothetical male wouldn't have gotten a team sponsorship, or anywhere near the level of support, but he wouldn't have been ignored for being an unknown who beat some progamers.
That's how I'm justifying female progamers as 'legitimate', as negative as that may sound. Think if anyone would care about them if they had the exact same skill, but were male.
I'm going to address the main problem that people have with females in SC2. People don't think it's fair that there are tournaments exclusively for females, because it's taking money away from those "more deserving". It feels sexist, eSports is still very much growing, and it's survival of the fittest. It feels like a letdown that there are sponsors throwing money at eSports that the best players aren't getting a chance to compete for. People are also frustrated that the primary reason that these tournaments have any viewership is because girls are attractive.
Female-only tournaments serve the same person as country-only tournaments, or region-only tournaments, or college-only, or school-only, or age-only, or anything like that. They are crucial because they specifically promote interest within that community, which grows the fanbase for the rest of the scene. If you throw some money at a tournament for your university, people from your university are gonna watch, and those who don't really care about SC2 might get into it. Maybe I hear about this big Australian national qualifiers for the B.net tournament, and I'm just a casual gamer, and I'm interested enough to check it out, then I decide I want to play. It's a similar deal.
I say similar because it's not quite the same. Female tournaments don't exist to bring in more female gamers, female gamers aren't exactly much of a population. In my eyes, I see it as the best opportunity you're gonna get to drag your girlfriend into SC2 (aside from showing how handsome SaSe is). Girls are intimidated by how male-dominated things are, seeing female competitors is encouraging. The Girls of StarCraft Facebook group and community is great, really doing great things for the female scene, and female-only competition engages not only those already in that community, but helps bring people in as well.
This is all pretty obvious, though. In theory, female-only competition is great. There aren't many female progamers, and far fewer that are actually good, but that's okay, hopefully female progamers get more motivated to become better and work harder. The problem is that they're a minority group that isn't just people from another place, or at a different age, or anything like that. The problem exists because there are a lot of lonely guys on the internet.
I can tell you right now that there's at least one guy, most likely lurking alternate starcraft communities, who would pay a decent amount of money for a picture of Flo's feet. Look at the comments on the Colagirl vs ST.Miss showmatch for example. It's pretty civil, but in my eyes there are way too many people that are only interested because of looks, and that's a bad image to give. Would SlayerS.Eve have been recruited if she was unattractive? In my eyes, that image is really hurting ESPORTS.
This hurts ESPORTS in a few ways. First of all, and this isn't much of a big deal, but it makes the community look immature and fickle. What if you introduce your girlfriend to SC2, and she's watching MLG with you (trying to act interested), and doesn't spot a female in the crowd. That's offputting, but then you show her what the female scene looks like, and all the female SC2 players are gorgeous. She's gonna be smart enough to figure out that's not a coincidence, especially considering the stereotype of how gamers live; there aren't a lot of fit progamers (or gamers in general). The problem? The way the female scene is right now makes female progamers look like cheerleaders.
Compare cheerleaders, and women's football players (football can mean whatever it means to you where you're from, it's rugby league to me, but the example works for any code). Who watches cheerleaders in men's football? Men. Who watches women's football? Women (generally). StarCraft II, and ESPORTS, don't need to draw in more guys. How much exposure does a team actually get from the male audience for recruiting a female progamer aside from the hype and drama caused by the announcement? If they're not competitive players, then you're not going to get any continued exposure aside from female-only tournaments, which aren't drawing the eyes of your primary (male) audience.
I don't know if this is the case or not, but there is nothing more scary to me in the world: imagine a top 8 masters player who's just been practicing her butt off, maybe she's beaten some progamers on ladder. She contacts a sponsored team, she wants a shot at going full-time, and correctly thinks it'll be easier for her to get recognised for her gender, I don't think there's anyone in ESPORTS who would want the female scene to decline. They talk, both parties find a good deal, and all is well; and then the dreaded moment in my fictional situation occurs: "send me a photo of yourself". Because of the way the scene seems to be right now, looks are more important than skill.
Who's doing this correctly? Quantic. Flo is involved in female-only tournaments of course, but she has decent runs at tournaments, and they play her in team leagues. I don't know her or follow her closely, but she doesn't seem to really care about her image, more focused on improving her skill. Even though I'd say she's just not quite there yet in terms of skill, Quantic and Flo is the best example I have for a sponsored female progamer, doing it right. Also, I'm not gonna say Scarlett and Eclypsia, because I'm 99% sure that it was a response to the hype and time will tell how that plays out.
Who's doing this wrong? SlayerS and StarTale. I have nothing against female progamers, you've read what I've written so far, you know I support the scene quite a bit. There's no non-blunt way to say this: SlayerS.Eve and ST.Miss might as well be cheerleaders. Yeah, Miss is masters on the Chinese server, which is probably somewhere around SEA in terms of server difficulty. No Chinese progamer plays on the Chinese server seriously, they all play on the Korean server. What on Earth is a Chinese progamer going to do for StarTale anyway? And everyone jokes about Eve's skill level, but it doesn't matter if she's good or not. You know why? Because she has never played in a tournament before.
I know fan service is real, and it helps viewership. Guys like hot girls. There is a place for them; as much as I don't really like it, they're emceeing, they're interviewing, they're doing that stuff. I'm not trying to undermine that work, but in essence, that's the place for "cheerleading" in SC2. My personal favourite host is Seltzer, she does great work, but would she be hired for as many events if she wasn't stunning? Sadly, I'm thinking the answer is no. Is it a coincidence that all of IPL's interviewers and translators were female? No, it isn't. There are actually people watching the interview streams solely because there's girls on them. While I will never understand why, it exists. And that's okay.
It's a win-win. For the female scene to be taken seriously and for it to grow, skill needs to be the primary factor for teams sponsoring female talent. It's not just for my Utopian ESPORTS future, it's for the teams as well. Teams aren't getting exposure from players that aren't making it to broadcasted matches at tournaments. Teams need exposure, and if they have a female player that is actually that good, then they're going to get a ton of it. And yet, they opt for looks instead.
Tournaments know the value of females to their predominately male audience, and that's where sex appeal can fit in to ESPORTS. It's at the player and team level that I just don't understand why things are the way they are. I hope that you'll agree that Scarlett has done far more for the female scene in a few days than SlayerS.Eve ever did.
I think that's all the points I wanted to make. I hope you enjoyed my blog, feel free to offer a differing opinion, I'd be happy to discuss it. Long live ESPORTS.
 
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you are aware Scarlett is a dude right
that's not even a rumor
i do not have any bias against transgenders at all but i do not think Scarlett qualifies as a victory towards female recognition in competitive starcraft
User was temp banned for this post.
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Speaking of which, whatever happened to JongMi/ maRie on oGs?
The last time I saw her was with oGs during the Blizzard Cup finals opening ceremony. I have no clue what she has been doing recently.
Otherwise, excellent blog.
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On April 19 2012 19:20 Zanno wrote:
you are aware Scarlett is a dude right
that's not even a rumor
i do not have any bias against transgenders at all but i do not think Scarlett qualifies as a victory towards female recognition in competitive starcraft
Scarlett is female. I am aware she is transgendered. There is absolutely no advantage gained in StarCraft from being male, therefore there is no reason why she couldn't be considered a success for the female SC2 scene.
EDIT: This will be the only reply I make about this issue. Please don't discuss it here, it undermines the point I'm trying to make.
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Very interesting blog, thanks for taking the time. Well reasoned. I'm not sure I agree with every single line - there are female gamers, sure the market isn't anywhere near what the male one is, but it is most certainly not just "girlfriends" - but definitely the overall account I feel is pretty accurate.
I guess I'm mostly hoping that Scarlett is the first of many; maybe not next week, but that over time more genuinely competitive women gamers will appear and score wins out in "the real world". While I'm supportive of any woman who puts herself out there to try and compete in sc2, I can't say I don't cringe a little when she plays poorly (or does a poor interview or whatever else).
At the very least, the gamer scene now is not what it was 5 or even one year ago. More women out there and more legitimate women players appearing. It can only get better from here right?
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On April 19 2012 19:23 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 19:20 Zanno wrote:
you are aware Scarlett is a dude right
that's not even a rumor
i do not have any bias against transgenders at all but i do not think Scarlett qualifies as a victory towards female recognition in competitive starcraft Scarlett is female. I am aware she is transgendered. There is absolutely no advantage gained in StarCraft from being male, therefore there is no reason why she couldn't be considered a success for the female SC2 scene. EDIT: This will be the only reply I make about this issue. Please don't discuss it here, it undermines the point I'm trying to make.
Of course it undermines the point you're trying to make
There's a large body of literature out there that shows that the male brain and female brain develop differently and as a result there are certain problems that males are better equipped to deal with and certain problems that females are better equipped to deal with
Undergoing sex reassignment surgery does not magically undo two decades of the human body's growth as a male and if you are going to ignore this then I don't know what to say
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On April 19 2012 19:25 chocopan wrote:
Very interesting blog, thanks for taking the time. Well reasoned. I'm not sure I agree with every single line - there are female gamers, sure the market isn't anywhere near what the male one is, but it is most certainly not just "girlfriends" - but definitely the overall account I feel is pretty accurate.
I guess I'm mostly hoping that Scarlett is the first of many; maybe not next week, but that over time more genuinely competitive women gamers will appear and score wins out in "the real world". While I'm supportive of any woman who puts herself out there to try and compete in sc2, I can't say I don't cringe a little when she plays poorly (or does a poor interview or whatever else).
At the very least, the gamer scene now is not what it was 5 or even one year ago. More women out there and more legitimate women players appearing. It can only get better from here right?
Yeah, I totally agree. There are definitely female gamers and it's definitely more encouraging for them to see a scene where skill is valued higher than appearance. I definitely didn't talk about that population enough, mainly because I was trying to capture the concept of minority-exclusive tournaments bringing new people into SC2 within that minority, and girl gamers are exposed to ESPORTS as much as male gamers. With such a large male fanbase, I think that the female scene is a great selling point for bringing girls into SC2 who aren't really "gamers", so yeah.
It's also a personal thing because I don't actually know a girl gamer in real life, which probably made me underestimate how many female gamers there are. Good point though.
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I don't think there's much to discuss on the subject to be honest. If there were female players as good as male players, they would be sponsored... problem is, the amount of girls playing is small, and the amount of girls who are seriously good enough to do well in tournaments is tiny. I doubt there's any team going "This player is awesome, but it's a girl, so we won't recruit", so there's really no discussion to be had.
I would love to see more female pro gamers... but only if they are good enough to actually be pro gamers.
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On April 19 2012 19:32 Zanno wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 19:23 Ruscour wrote:On April 19 2012 19:20 Zanno wrote:
you are aware Scarlett is a dude right
that's not even a rumor
i do not have any bias against transgenders at all but i do not think Scarlett qualifies as a victory towards female recognition in competitive starcraft Scarlett is female. I am aware she is transgendered. There is absolutely no advantage gained in StarCraft from being male, therefore there is no reason why she couldn't be considered a success for the female SC2 scene. EDIT: This will be the only reply I make about this issue. Please don't discuss it here, it undermines the point I'm trying to make. Of course it undermines the point you're trying to make There's a large body of literature out there that shows that the male brain and female brain develop differently and as a result there are certain problems that males are better equipped to deal with and certain problems that females are better equipped to deal with Undergoing sex reassignment surgery does not magically undo two decades of the human body's growth as a male and if you are going to ignore this then I don't know what to say
The burden of proof is on the accuser. Can you actually provide any evidence that being female is a disadvantage in StarCraft? The way you're talking it just comes across like you're saying males are genetically superior. The only physical aspects to StarCraft are concentration, hand speed, reaction time etc, and I fail to see how any of that has anything to do with sex...
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How do you feel about Aphrodite?
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On April 19 2012 19:42 mizU wrote:
How do you feel about Aphrodite?
Remains to be seen. I don't know if she practices at the house or not, I know she is quite good. She's only really participated in female tournaments though, for me to be a happy panda I'd like to see her play in more tournaments. The difference between between her and the others I cited is that she was recruited for being good, which was the biggest factor I was supporting. I just hope she turns out to be a progamer, and not just a "female progamer". There doesn't have to be a difference, there's no reason for it, but there is 
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On April 19 2012 19:48 Ruscour wrote:Remains to be seen. I don't know if she practices at the house or not, I know she is quite good. She's only really participated in female tournaments though, for me to be a happy panda I'd like to see her play in more tournaments. The difference between between her and the others I cited is that she was recruited for being good, which was the biggest factor I was supporting. I just hope she turns out to be a progamer, and not just a "female progamer". There doesn't have to be a difference, there's no reason for it, but there is
But do you think it's fair to invite female players to tournaments instead of male players that are better? I think Aphrodite is really good, and i think she lives with her boyfriend Rainbow.
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You completely forgot about ST_Aphrodite. She is high masters on the korean server and is training daily in order to be able to qualify for code A (she already tried and failed once or twice but that obviously doesn't mean she's bad). Startale recruited her after her victory in the Zowie Divina female tournament mainly because they saw that there are more and more big female only tournaments and having a person compete (and do well) in them, is a good thing for the team (exposure etc).
Rainbow (her fiance) told her that her "real" competition are all the male progamers and not the females which also means she knows that winning a girl only tournament is certainly nice, but not an amazing achievement either (qualifying for code A being more important for example) so maybe Startale is not doing it completely wrong either.
You're saying that skill should be the main factor when recruiting a girl (I assume you believe this should also be true when recruiting a male). Some non korean teams have players who are not very good (Incontrol on EG or Destiny on Quantic for example). However, they both bring a lot of attention to their team because they are popular and this is the main reason they are on these teams and I don't think it's a bad thing. Same goes for some of the girls on teams (Eve for example).
I'm very tired so I hope my post makes some sense x.x
Edit: I wrote all this so slowly that I missed almost all the answers..bleh
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I am so confused when people bring the gender of a player up, just to justify their own insecurity because they feel threatened. A player who is good, is a player who is good. Doesn't matter if you're male, female, transsexual or a hermaphrodite. In the end your performance is all that matters. The rest is just silly "alpha-male" behaviour
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On April 19 2012 19:57 Linwelin wrote:
You completely forgot about ST_Aphrodite. She is high masters on the korean server and is training daily in order to be able to qualify for code A (she already tried and failed once or twice but that obviously doesn't mean she's bad). Startale recruited her after her victory in the Zowie Divina female tournament mainly because they saw that there are more and more big female only tournaments and having a person compete (and do well) in them, is a good thing for the team (exposure etc).
Rainbow (her fiance) told her that her "real" competition are all the male progamers and not the females which also means she knows that winning a girl only tournament is certainly nice, but not an amazing achievement either (qualifying for code A being more important for example) so maybe Startale is not doing it completely wrong either.
You're saying that skill should be the main factor when recruiting a girl (I assume you believe this should also be true when recruiting a male). Some non korean teams have players who are not very good (Incontrol on EG or Destiny on Quantic for example). However, they both bring a lot of attention to their team because they are popular and this is the main reason they are on these teams and I don't think it's a bad thing. Same goes for some of the girls on teams (Eve for example).
I'm very tired so I hope my post makes some sense x.x
I neglected to mention a ton of female progamers and their individual situations. When mentioning StarTale I did not mention Aphrodite because I don't consider her recruitment to have anything to do with what I was pointing out with Miss. That said, with my whole point about making it so that the female scene isn't just this separated scene would greatly help the female scene overall, I would really like to see Aphrodite participate in more open tournaments. She attempted to qualify for Code A, if she's seriously practicing and just hasn't had success there, then that's great, but it's hard to tell, the Korean scene is so much less transparent than the foreign one.
Also, personalities also have far more opportunities for exposure than females do, and those personalities are at least competitive. There are females on sponsored teams who simply aren't. For example, take Check Six. The amount of fans they're able to bring in through MaximusBlack and his YouTube popularity has got to be far larger than the exposure that ailuj gives them, even considering she was on the stage at MLG, and it was mainly luck that her open bracket games got a chance to be broadcast. I don't actually know how good she is so I can't have much of an opinion of the matter, just saying why I think it's silly that teams seem to have this token female requirement lately.
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On April 19 2012 20:05 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 19:57 Linwelin wrote:
You completely forgot about ST_Aphrodite. She is high masters on the korean server and is training daily in order to be able to qualify for code A (she already tried and failed once or twice but that obviously doesn't mean she's bad). Startale recruited her after her victory in the Zowie Divina female tournament mainly because they saw that there are more and more big female only tournaments and having a person compete (and do well) in them, is a good thing for the team (exposure etc).
Rainbow (her fiance) told her that her "real" competition are all the male progamers and not the females which also means she knows that winning a girl only tournament is certainly nice, but not an amazing achievement either (qualifying for code A being more important for example) so maybe Startale is not doing it completely wrong either.
You're saying that skill should be the main factor when recruiting a girl (I assume you believe this should also be true when recruiting a male). Some non korean teams have players who are not very good (Incontrol on EG or Destiny on Quantic for example). However, they both bring a lot of attention to their team because they are popular and this is the main reason they are on these teams and I don't think it's a bad thing. Same goes for some of the girls on teams (Eve for example).
I'm very tired so I hope my post makes some sense x.x
I neglected to mention a ton of female progamers and their individual situations. When mentioning StarTale I did not mention Aphrodite because I don't consider her recruitment to have anything to do with what I was pointing out with Miss. That said, with my whole point about making it so that the female scene isn't just this separated scene would greatly help the female scene overall, I would really like to see Aphrodite participate in more open tournaments. She attempted to qualify for Code A, if she's seriously practicing and just hasn't had success there, then that's great, but it's hard to tell, the Korean scene is so much less transparent than the foreign one. Also, personalities also have far more opportunities for exposure than females do, and those personalities are at least competitive. There are females on sponsored teams who simply aren't. For example, take Check Six. The amount of fans they're able to bring in through MaximusBlack and his YouTube popularity has got to be far larger than the exposure that ailuj gives them, even considering she was on the stage at MLG, and it was mainly luck that her open bracket games got a chance to be broadcast. I don't actually know how good she is so I can't have much of an opinion of the matter, just saying why I think it's silly that teams seem to have this token female requirement lately.
I can tell you for a fact that Aphrodite is practicing a lot because I talk with her and Rainbow frequently (which is why I focused on her in my first answer)
Overall, I don't completely disagree with your blog, I was just pointing out a few things.
P.S: I have never heard of MaximusBlack ;o
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The SC2 player base for male and female players follows a gaussian distribution... which means as long as the player pool for female gamers is very small, the chance for female top tier progamers is even smaller.
To have more female progamers, we need to increase the whole female player base. Having progamers like Aphrodite, Eve, etc. helps get women interested in SC2 as it shows that it's not a men-only hobby, so it's actually good for the community if teams pick up female gamers even if they can't (yet) compete with their male counterparts.
There is a chance that a girl that gets inspired by Aphrodite today becomes the "FemFlash" of tomorrow.
That women are good PR is a nice side effect for the teams and if the women would have problems with that they wouldn't sign the contracts, so who are we to tell them otherwise? It's a decision they have to make for themselves (unless you assume they can't think for themselves).
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Finland306 Posts
On April 19 2012 19:35 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 19:32 Zanno wrote:On April 19 2012 19:23 Ruscour wrote:On April 19 2012 19:20 Zanno wrote:
you are aware Scarlett is a dude right
that's not even a rumor
i do not have any bias against transgenders at all but i do not think Scarlett qualifies as a victory towards female recognition in competitive starcraft Scarlett is female. I am aware she is transgendered. There is absolutely no advantage gained in StarCraft from being male, therefore there is no reason why she couldn't be considered a success for the female SC2 scene. EDIT: This will be the only reply I make about this issue. Please don't discuss it here, it undermines the point I'm trying to make. Of course it undermines the point you're trying to make There's a large body of literature out there that shows that the male brain and female brain develop differently and as a result there are certain problems that males are better equipped to deal with and certain problems that females are better equipped to deal with Undergoing sex reassignment surgery does not magically undo two decades of the human body's growth as a male and if you are going to ignore this then I don't know what to say The burden of proof is on the accuser. Can you actually provide any evidence that being female is a disadvantage in StarCraft? The way you're talking it just comes across like you're saying males are genetically superior. The only physical aspects to StarCraft are concentration, hand speed, reaction time etc, and I fail to see how any of that has anything to do with sex...
On the aspect of reaction time:
"Overall, males tended to show shorter reaction times than females [...]. [I]t is consistent with previous studies showing shorter reaction times for males than females in spatial choice reaction time tasks (Simon 1967, Lahtela et al. 1985).
Importantly, the male superiority seemed to be tied to a specific information processing strategy. That is, for the compatible condition, males showed a stair-like increment in reaction time as a function of stimulus position, while females showed a linear increment. This differential pattern of reaction time as a function of stimulus position could be interpreted as suggesting that females may have employed a `serial, left-to-right’ processing strategy and males a `binary, split-half’ (or dichotomizing) strategy in which the 4-element stimulus array is broken up in a left and right part. Such a dichotomizing strategy would entail that participants first identify the signal and its corresponding response as lying within the left or right section, and then to determine its (relative) position within that section. The shorter reaction times for the left section might reflect a bias to inspect the left section first. Welford (1980) pointed out that a dichotomizing strategy is the most efficient procedure according to classical information theory (Shannon and Weaver 1949)."
From J. J. ADAM (1999): Gender differences in choice reaction time: evidence for differential strategies, Ergonomics, 42:2, 327-335
Males and females are not the same.
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I generally tend to agree with you, but something you didn't mention is the cultural impediment - not specifically with regards to a geographical culture, but with ESPORTS culture in general. (Also, any reason you always use ESPORTS capitalized?) While the SC2 community seems to have avoided the general misogynistic overtones that exist in some forms (the big uproar in the FG community, for example) there still seems to be a general... not necessarily misogynistic, just disbelief or shock whenever a female player does well. And of course the immediate gender debates that spring up when a female player does well. As an example, look at the MLG when Ailuj was streamed on the mainstage in a match (against Destiny?). Tastosis seems to be perplexed, and while they try to get past the "Omg, a girl!" to the game, they come back again and again to her gender. The community itself through its reactions seems to be something that might be a turn-off to females wanting to become progamers - do you think male players would be driven to succeed at the same level if a good half of the community reaction focused on their looks, or that they are playing really well "... for a guy". It just seems to me like, in the wider community, there is some latent resistance to the idea of female progamers AS progamers first. Similar to certan geographical areas, where you might not be actively disliked or barred from going, but where the "alienness" of your presence causes people to be uncomfortable. The SC2 (and wider competitive ESPORTS) community seems like it's that way - not that we prevent female players from competing but that we just don't know how to handle it.
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Interesting thread.
Rereading through it I guess one future I most definitely do -not- want for sc2 is one in which teams have 1 or 2 cute girls in a sort of PR function, and then other girls do interviews and stuff.
It's all well and good to say "women can decide for themselves what jobs to take" etc, and obviously that's true; but if the final outcome is that sc2 has the image of a "mans sport", where the women are just there for color, well, that would be a lost opportunity I think. I don't expect to see a 50/50 gender split in gaming any time soon; nor do I think it's appropriate for me to go around criticising women who are lucky enough to be born attractive who manage to get X or Y job on A or B team for whatever reason. My only concern is just about the image this new sport is creating and where that might leave the game in a few years time (and, by extension, gamer culture generally).
(For this reason I am 150% behind Scarlett, as a genuine potential talent.)
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EPT
