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On April 16 2012 20:54 how wrote:
I don't ply lol, but this post is interesting to me. From what I can see though, the ELO hell is like getting stuck in team games with shitty partners. You can be better than everyone on your team, but in able to win the game, you need to be a LOT better. So your rank keeps falling. I could see how this could be a problem.
The issue with that logic is that you assume you get shitty teammates because you are in a shitty ELO but the enemy team somehow doesn't suck as much. If you are stuck in "ELO hell", you are stuck with shitty teammates but also stuck facing shitty oponents. If everyone in the game is worse than you, you will eventually raise in rank, even if it takes a while. The idea the gods of matchmaking choose to always place every bad player in your team is one of the worst things in this kind of game.
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My understanding is that Ezreal is a HORRIBLE ad carry. He carries really softly because he has no steroids or any other means to empower his autoattack.
Try Caitlyn and Tristana.
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Random perspective on how consistent you have to play:
If you cause your team to lose 1 game out of every 10 you play, you are at the elo you should be (1/5 losses due to you, other 4/5 due to teammates, other 5 games wins)
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On April 16 2012 22:04 Sufficiency wrote:
My understanding is that Ezreal is a HORRIBLE ad carry. He carries really softly because he has no steroids or any other means to empower his autoattack.
Try Caitlyn and Tristana.
Then your understanding is greatly lacking. Saying Ezreal has no steroids and then saying he should play Caitlyn in the same sentence.... what? Explain what steroids Caitlyn has.
Ezreal has a steroid, his passive. He gets incredible amount of Atk speed for free basically which is why PD is rarely built on him.
Ezreal is far from a horrible AD carry, but he's a very different AD carry. Ezreal is an incredible laner (which is why you shouldn't lose lane with him.) and in teamfights he's extremely hard to kill. (Double blink and long range.)
Also, once your lvl 16-18, win one teamfight and push Nexus towers down because Ezreal is dishing out 40% atk speed to your allies.
Despite all this, what he generally lacks late game is damage. You can't autoattack people to death. Especially if their tank / bruiser manages to park himself infront of you and your forced to throw your Q's at him doing 5-10% per hit, while you could be doing double / triple that on squishier targets. A carry like Vayne, Ashe, Cait etc are better in those types of situations.
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Why are you playing by yourself? I haven't played a solo game in 2 years because its so terrible. You have the whole TL LoL community to play with, so you almost always can find somebody. It'll make it more fun and you'll always have one not-horrible person with you.
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On April 16 2012 18:17 zalz wrote:
ELO hell doesn't exist.
You will protest, argue that it does, provide meaningless and biased information.
It does not exist and any claim that it does is a poor attempt at shifting the blame. You get the elo you deserve, good players have shown this countless times.
A player who competes at 2000+ can drop to a 1000 and climb back up. The fact that you can't climb up isn't evidence of a flawed system, in fact, it is evidence that the system works.
Truth.
It does not exist, and your post is pretty much perfect in every way. It's just like people in sc who complain that the play is too noob or too cheesy in gold league for them to execute mad gosu strats like ffe and 3 hatch zvp, but dont realize that cheese in master/gm is 60x better executed then what they're facing so its not like they'll be able to make that third hatch when the guy is attacking with 4 more zeals 2 minutes earlier.
If you get better you move up, if you don't, you don't.
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I'm relatively new to LoL, I don't even play ranked games yet. As such I'm a complete noob, but isn't it possible that someone who is theoretically "decent" could be stuck at lower ELO's because he keeps getting matched with bad teammates? Or is dramatically higher skill on one team member enough to swing the game in his/her favor despite teammates who act stupidly?
Just an honest question forgive my lack of understanding.
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On April 16 2012 22:49 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 22:04 Sufficiency wrote:
My understanding is that Ezreal is a HORRIBLE ad carry. He carries really softly because he has no steroids or any other means to empower his autoattack.
Try Caitlyn and Tristana. Then your understanding is greatly lacking. Saying Ezreal has no steroids and then saying he should play Caitlyn in the same sentence.... what? Explain what steroids Caitlyn has. Ezreal has a steroid, his passive. He gets incredible amount of Atk speed for free basically which is why PD is rarely built on him. Ezreal is far from a horrible AD carry, but he's a very different AD carry. Ezreal is an incredible laner (which is why you shouldn't lose lane with him.) and in teamfights he's extremely hard to kill. (Double blink and long range.) Also, once your lvl 16-18, win one teamfight and push Nexus towers down because Ezreal is dishing out 40% atk speed to your allies. Despite all this, what he generally lacks late game is damage. You can't autoattack people to death. Especially if their tank / bruiser manages to park himself infront of you and your forced to throw your Q's at him doing 5-10% per hit, while you could be doing double / triple that on squishier targets. A carry like Vayne, Ashe, Cait etc are better in those types of situations.
I am quite aware of Ezreal's Innate. Good luck maintaining 5 stacks in late game while everyone is trying to either kill you or running away from you while you try to position yourself well.
Caitlyn's Innate is not a steroid in the sense that it doesn't give her attack speed, but it does increase her DPS in a significant way that is *multiplicative* to her other bonuses; furthermore it's SIMPLE; you just need to autoattack, nothing else. Caitlyn mostly shines on her Q, though - Ezreal does not have anything comparable to that (although he does have a blink).
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On April 16 2012 23:05 RJGooner wrote:
I'm relatively new to LoL, I don't even play ranked games yet. As such I'm a complete noob, but isn't it possible that someone who is theoretically "decent" could be stuck at lower ELO's because he keeps getting matched with bad teammates? Or is dramatically higher skill on one team member enough to swing the game in his/her favor despite teammates who act stupidly?
Just an honest question forgive my lack of understanding.
There will always be games where you simply CAN'T win. Everyone has had one of those games, and will have more in the future.
But if YOU keep performing great every game, then pure statistics say that if you play enough, you will get higher ELO. But you need to keep playing.
People lose 5 games where they went positive stats and think they are in elo hell. As I said before, try 100 games and you will get closer to the truth.
And yes, 1 team member can make ALL the difference in a game. Most notably mid player and jungler. A burst AP mid like Annie, Morgana are great throughout all faces in the game. Even though you can't 1v5, you can win a 3v4, 5v5 etc. with a well placed ultimate.
Junglers can win lanes for people, and through that make a massive difference. It might not be as noticeable as an AP carry that goes 10 kills every game, but it happens.
I think I average about 13 kills / game with Annie. When I play her, it doesn't matter how bad my team sucks. If I roll out of lane 3-0 with 20 min Deathcap, even a horrible team realizes that when I flash > ulti, they follow and kill anyone who didn't melt.
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so THIS is where you went after IRC mafia? :U
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I have to admit i haven't played the game for a few months (but had >1000 wins before that) now, but I don't think that the game has changed that much (judging from tourney streams it hasn't).
I don't understand why you expect to carry your team with an AD carry. Carries in LoL are very different from other MOBAs in that they are not able to carry the game alone (vayne is prolly a bit different because she is beast at 1v1). They are glass cannons and desperately NEED their team to support and babysit them throughout the whole game. If you are playing uncoordinated (pubs) you will not be able to "carry" the game.
To carry in LoL, play solo top, AP mid or certain junglers, because they are the most important parts of the team. If you don't play any of those roles, you have your bad teammates on those lanes and if they lose them, you are screwed (bot is mostly behind in levels and farm).
Mid is important because it dominates the game early on. Mid can gank and at 6 go bot or top to oneshot people.
Top is important because tanky dps are the true carries in LoL. If they have enough feed they can take on several enemies at once (carries can't because they are glass cannons).
Jungle is important because it allows you to win mid and top by ganking and screw their jungler over so he can't do his job
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On April 16 2012 23:16 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 23:05 RJGooner wrote:
I'm relatively new to LoL, I don't even play ranked games yet. As such I'm a complete noob, but isn't it possible that someone who is theoretically "decent" could be stuck at lower ELO's because he keeps getting matched with bad teammates? Or is dramatically higher skill on one team member enough to swing the game in his/her favor despite teammates who act stupidly?
Just an honest question forgive my lack of understanding. There will always be games where you simply CAN'T win. Everyone has had one of those games, and will have more in the future. But if YOU keep performing great every game, then pure statistics say that if you play enough, you will get higher ELO. But you need to keep playing. People lose 5 games where they went positive stats and think they are in elo hell. As I said before, try 100 games and you will get closer to the truth. And yes, 1 team member can make ALL the difference in a game. Most notably mid player and jungler. A burst AP mid like Annie, Morgana are great throughout all faces in the game. Even though you can't 1v5, you can win a 3v4, 5v5 etc. with a well placed ultimate. Junglers can win lanes for people, and through that make a massive difference. It might not be as noticeable as an AP carry that goes 10 kills every game, but it happens. I think I average about 13 kills / game with Annie. When I play her, it doesn't matter how bad my team sucks. If I roll out of lane 3-0 with 20 min Deathcap, even a horrible team realizes that when I flash > ulti, they follow and kill anyone who didn't melt.
What I find hard is that rolling out in 20 minutes after complete ownage in my (mid) lane is a difficult task. What if the other team is competent, and after you killed their AP carry twice, they start to maintain two people in mid at all times to try to gank you? Then it becomes very difficult to win over the lane if your allies suck. I think this is even more difficult if you play someone like Annie who lacks real escape mechanism and has to defend yourself by charging up a stun in case you are caught off guard.
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One thing I've found when people complain abotu ELO Hell is that they focus too much soley on the numbers in their performance instead of carrying the team through objectives and support.
Even if you crush your lane, its not going to outright win the game (as you know). You need to take steps to help the "bad" players on your team win their lanes. Of course, help ward objectives and try to call out plays surrounding them (whether its coordinating a turret push or a dragon kill). Go the extra mile to help ward their lanes if you notice the aren't, and even ping when you see an incoming gank (instead of assuming they are looking at the mini map). Thing like roaming for kills more instead of focussing on huge cs numbers will have more of an effect at that lower level as well.
Carrying low ELO is more than just getting your numbers up, its babysitting and leading the four people that you think you're better than. If you can do that, you'll move up in ELO, if you can't then you should probably stay where you are at until you realize how important the team aspect is (and that solo performance can't outweight a shitty team attitude).
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On April 16 2012 23:11 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 22:49 NonFactor wrote:On April 16 2012 22:04 Sufficiency wrote:
My understanding is that Ezreal is a HORRIBLE ad carry. He carries really softly because he has no steroids or any other means to empower his autoattack.
Try Caitlyn and Tristana. Then your understanding is greatly lacking. Saying Ezreal has no steroids and then saying he should play Caitlyn in the same sentence.... what? Explain what steroids Caitlyn has. Ezreal has a steroid, his passive. He gets incredible amount of Atk speed for free basically which is why PD is rarely built on him. Ezreal is far from a horrible AD carry, but he's a very different AD carry. Ezreal is an incredible laner (which is why you shouldn't lose lane with him.) and in teamfights he's extremely hard to kill. (Double blink and long range.) Also, once your lvl 16-18, win one teamfight and push Nexus towers down because Ezreal is dishing out 40% atk speed to your allies. Despite all this, what he generally lacks late game is damage. You can't autoattack people to death. Especially if their tank / bruiser manages to park himself infront of you and your forced to throw your Q's at him doing 5-10% per hit, while you could be doing double / triple that on squishier targets. A carry like Vayne, Ashe, Cait etc are better in those types of situations. I am quite aware of Ezreal's Innate. Good luck maintaining 5 stacks in late game while everyone is trying to either kill you or running away from you while you try to position yourself well. Caitlyn's Innate is not a steroid in the sense that it doesn't give her attack speed, but it does increase her DPS in a significant way that is *multiplicative* to her other bonuses; furthermore it's SIMPLE; you just need to autoattack, nothing else. Caitlyn mostly shines on her Q, though - Ezreal does not have anything comparable to that (although he does have a blink).
Have you ever played Ezreal? I always pick Ezreal when I need to play AD since I love his aggressive laning phase, and I know from experience that maintaining 5 stacks LATE GAME isn't a problem at all. I mean really, it would have made sense had you said early game, because that's when it's hard but late game? You have 3 skills in your arsenal which gives you stacks. 2 of them are AoE. One has unlimited range with massive AoE, the other works on both allies and enemies. And then you have Q.
Teamfight starts? Throw Ulti into the enemy team, most of the time you are guaranteed atleast 3-4 stacks. Use W on your teammate(s) that aren't in the fight yet (like support) and press Q on the nearest enemy. 5 stacks. Everytime. Of course, you don't even need to be that technical about it. Usually just Q spam gives you 5 stacks quite fast. And since you are Ezreal, and you are supposed to be poking before a fight, you most likely already have a few stacks anyways.
Also Caits Q is only powerful early mid game. Late game Caits Q falls off in favour of her autoattack. And also the fact that the animation that Q has is horrible if your in a fight. It's primarily used while laning since it's safe there, or against opponents that are fleeing. And Ezreal has 2 skills that are similar. His own Q that also has long range. (No AoE though) And his ultimate, which has higher damage and higher range. Of course, it's not as spammable but you won't be spamming Caits Q either except on lane (with soraka) / poke situation.
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On April 16 2012 23:21 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 23:16 NonFactor wrote:On April 16 2012 23:05 RJGooner wrote:
I'm relatively new to LoL, I don't even play ranked games yet. As such I'm a complete noob, but isn't it possible that someone who is theoretically "decent" could be stuck at lower ELO's because he keeps getting matched with bad teammates? Or is dramatically higher skill on one team member enough to swing the game in his/her favor despite teammates who act stupidly?
Just an honest question forgive my lack of understanding. There will always be games where you simply CAN'T win. Everyone has had one of those games, and will have more in the future. But if YOU keep performing great every game, then pure statistics say that if you play enough, you will get higher ELO. But you need to keep playing. People lose 5 games where they went positive stats and think they are in elo hell. As I said before, try 100 games and you will get closer to the truth. And yes, 1 team member can make ALL the difference in a game. Most notably mid player and jungler. A burst AP mid like Annie, Morgana are great throughout all faces in the game. Even though you can't 1v5, you can win a 3v4, 5v5 etc. with a well placed ultimate. Junglers can win lanes for people, and through that make a massive difference. It might not be as noticeable as an AP carry that goes 10 kills every game, but it happens. I think I average about 13 kills / game with Annie. When I play her, it doesn't matter how bad my team sucks. If I roll out of lane 3-0 with 20 min Deathcap, even a horrible team realizes that when I flash > ulti, they follow and kill anyone who didn't melt. What I find hard is that rolling out in 20 minutes after complete ownage in my (mid) lane is a difficult task. What if the other team is competent, and after you killed their AP carry twice, they start to maintain two people in mid at all times to try to gank you? Then it becomes very difficult to win over the lane if your allies suck. I think this is even more difficult if you play someone like Annie who lacks real escape mechanism and has to defend yourself by charging up a stun in case you are caught off guard.
Great, that's exactly what I want. If their jungler is camping me, it means he's not camping others.
Wards will deter any type of jungling aggression on mid. And you can afford them.
Heres a tip: Buy 1 ward and put it on either side. Now only stay on THAT side. What does this achieve? You will see when the jungler comes, if he comes from the side your standing. (This usually happens) You can instantly back off safely. If he comes from the other side that isn't warded, you can retreat through the side you warded, and they can't catch you.
There are some exceptions though, and it usually has to do what Mid your facing. Ahri for example makes this harder since she has so high mobility, she can just follow you, charm you and buy the jungler enough time to catch up.
Learn to understand also when your getting baited. It's usually incredibly obvious. Especially if you've been winning the lane.
Edit: I also forgot to mention, wards will automatically also help your team. Warding next to the wraith camp is probably the place to put the ward.
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On April 16 2012 22:49 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 22:04 Sufficiency wrote:
My understanding is that Ezreal is a HORRIBLE ad carry. He carries really softly because he has no steroids or any other means to empower his autoattack.
Try Caitlyn and Tristana. Then your understanding is greatly lacking. Saying Ezreal has no steroids and then saying he should play Caitlyn in the same sentence.... what? Explain what steroids Caitlyn has. Ezreal has a steroid, his passive. He gets incredible amount of Atk speed for free basically which is why PD is rarely built on him. Ezreal is far from a horrible AD carry, but he's a very different AD carry. Ezreal is an incredible laner (which is why you shouldn't lose lane with him.) and in teamfights he's extremely hard to kill. (Double blink and long range.) Also, once your lvl 16-18, win one teamfight and push Nexus towers down because Ezreal is dishing out 40% atk speed to your allies. Despite all this, what he generally lacks late game is damage. You can't autoattack people to death. Especially if their tank / bruiser manages to park himself infront of you and your forced to throw your Q's at him doing 5-10% per hit, while you could be doing double / triple that on squishier targets. A carry like Vayne, Ashe, Cait etc are better in those types of situations.
What steroids those cait have..........
Cait's steroids are her range. She can get two or more shots off safely before ez can get one shot off. Cait has longer range making it harder to get on her, meaning she gets more shots off just standing there. Ez has to lose time auto attacking running around and "kiting".
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On April 16 2012 23:55 0123456789 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 22:49 NonFactor wrote:On April 16 2012 22:04 Sufficiency wrote:
My understanding is that Ezreal is a HORRIBLE ad carry. He carries really softly because he has no steroids or any other means to empower his autoattack.
Try Caitlyn and Tristana. Then your understanding is greatly lacking. Saying Ezreal has no steroids and then saying he should play Caitlyn in the same sentence.... what? Explain what steroids Caitlyn has. Ezreal has a steroid, his passive. He gets incredible amount of Atk speed for free basically which is why PD is rarely built on him. Ezreal is far from a horrible AD carry, but he's a very different AD carry. Ezreal is an incredible laner (which is why you shouldn't lose lane with him.) and in teamfights he's extremely hard to kill. (Double blink and long range.) Also, once your lvl 16-18, win one teamfight and push Nexus towers down because Ezreal is dishing out 40% atk speed to your allies. Despite all this, what he generally lacks late game is damage. You can't autoattack people to death. Especially if their tank / bruiser manages to park himself infront of you and your forced to throw your Q's at him doing 5-10% per hit, while you could be doing double / triple that on squishier targets. A carry like Vayne, Ashe, Cait etc are better in those types of situations. What steroids those cait have.......... Cait's steroids are her range. She can get two or more shots off safely before ez can get one shot off. Cait has longer range making it harder to get on her, meaning she gets more shots off just standing there. Ez has to lose time auto attacking running around and "kiting".
Yes, her range, and her range only is what makes Cait a decent pick. Still doesn't make Ezreal bad.
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hi there...just going to give a few thoughts... if you didn't know ezreal mid is still a crazy ass strong pick. ability to snipe people and the mobility he gives is ridiculous. he also shits on most people mid lane fairly well (pantheon rapes him though).
don't play support at low elos because your ad probably can't cs well may as well try and split it 50/50 or something
play with a i'm going to carry mentality
sorry my post is probably hard to understand
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Atm goin down from 2.1k to 1.4k after a short break )))) ~10 kda ratio not enough, although most of the players in "elohell" are in fact bad, there are also some who just havent played many games or are indeed very unlucky. There are so many lolplayers that there exist people who get unlucky literally every game (me atm, 20% winrate although i totally DESTROY my opponent AND gang AND ward [mostly ap mid]).
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On April 17 2012 00:13 wussleeQ wrote:
hi there...just going to give a few thoughts... if you didn't know ezreal mid is still a crazy ass strong pick. ability to snipe people and the mobility he gives is ridiculous. he also shits on most people mid lane fairly well (pantheon rapes him though).
don't play support at low elos because your ad probably can't cs well may as well try and split it 50/50 or something
play with a i'm going to carry mentality
sorry my post is probably hard to understand
Thanks, ill try him mid. Ad or AP?
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EPT
