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Loving Poetry

Blogs > nepeta
Post a Reply
nepeta
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
1872 Posts
April 06 2012 20:09 GMT
#1
An anti-elitist manifesto

A poem is like a woman (or man if one were so inclined): there are many different types, you probably won't love all of them, but chances are you'll love a few and like many others. While poetry is considered an intellectual domain, much more so than women, although there are a lot of intellectual women and the majority of poetry is not high-brow at all. If you are wondering why you should love poetry, the only thing I can say is: 'Because it is beautiful.' The difference between being able to read and to love poetry is like the difference between internet pornography and real women. If you don't know what I'm talking about, read on, as I may be able to clue you in on one half of the comparison.

To start with the familiar: women. Some are nice, most of them nasty, they come in different colours of skin, heigts, volumes and weights; some are best consumed young, will bloat or wither with age, while others improve with age like certain kinds of wine. There are blonds, brunettes, black-haired Asian beauties, or Spanish, or Indian, with almost seven billion people, three and a half billion different women to love. While there do not exist three and a half billion kinds of poetry, I wonder how close that number is to the number of poems written. Even if not for passion, love poetry for convenience's sake. A marriage of convenience.

Most important about enjoying women/poems is to actually enjoy them: don't let your friends, mother or walkabout literati tell you how to do so: If you let people who've studied literature in any form or shape in on your love life, you're done for, same goes for old people and beauty and all the rest.

So back to the other half of the metaphor: poetry. Allow me to present some examples:

W. Shakespeare - Richard III act 1 scene 1

Although the language may be a bit old-fashioned, and the idiom unfamiliar, the gist of the first twenty-five or so lines is clear: The protagonist introduces the audience to the setting of the story, as well as himself, by means of a speech. There is no rhyme, but there is a metre: v-v-v-v-v- (v is an unstressed, - a stressed syllable). This is not 'poetry' per se: it's drama, with poetic elements. 'Poetic elements'? Yes, figures in language, a text may possess in certain quantities. Not every poem rhymes, has a metre, or is declared to be 'a poem' like the Germans tend to do with novels. + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
. A defenition of poetry is therefore quite impossible. 'But what about women?!', the observant reader might mentally exclaim. 'Aren't women the kind of home sapiens with a hole instead of a tube between the legs and breasts even when not obese?' So they are, but there are shades of grey, people with mixed-up DNA which could be qualified as being male and female, or neither, even if their outward appearance may clearly point one way, or the other. But generally speaking it's not very hard to distinguish women from men, and so with poetry: Most poems have a fixed metre, a rhyme scheme, those comically short lines and are being printed in books with many other poems, to keep them warm and put away any possible confusion as to their kind.

text: + Show Spoiler +

GLOUCESTER. Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
Now are our brows bound with victorious wreaths;
Our bruised arms hung up for monuments;
Our stern alarums chang'd to merry meetings,
Our dreadful marches to delightful measures.
Grim-visag'd war hath smooth'd his wrinkled front,
And now, instead of mounting barbed steeds
To fright the souls of fearful adversaries,
He capers nimbly in a lady's chamber
To the lascivious pleasing of a lute.
But I-that am not shap'd for sportive tricks,
Nor made to court an amorous looking-glass-
I-that am rudely stamp'd, and want love's majesty
To strut before a wanton ambling nymph-
I-that am curtail'd of this fair proportion,
Cheated of feature by dissembling nature,
Deform'd, unfinish'd, sent before my time
Into this breathing world scarce half made up,
And that so lamely and unfashionable
That dogs bark at me as I halt by them-
Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
Have no delight to pass away the time,
Unless to spy my shadow in the sun
And descant on mine own deformity.
And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.



A. de Musset - Tristesse

Ruh-roh! French! Well pardon me for smugling in some of my personal favourites the best poems of all time. I will explain. Even without knowing any French, the appearance is that of a [link-wiki]sonnet: two stanzas (poetry-speak for paragraph) of four lines followed by two more of three lines. The rhyme scheme, that is, the order of the rhyming sounds, here found at the end of each line, is ABBA BAAB CCB DDB. Not to be confused with a DNA sequence, these capital combinations refer to 'vie' (A), 'génie', 'amie', 'sentie', once a sound has been made it is assigned a letter, which may be used for the remainder of the poem. 'The truth' is being personified; De Musset pretends she (female word in French) is a friend. But it doesn't go very much deeper, it's a thought one may share, relate to or enjoy at will.

text: + Show Spoiler +

J'ai perdu ma force et ma vie,
Et mes amis et ma gaieté;
J'ai perdu jusqu'à la fierté
Qui faisait croire à mon génie.

Quand j'ai connu la Vérité,
J'ai cru que c'était une amie ;
Quand je l'ai comprise et sentie,
J'en étais déjà dégoûté.

Et pourtant elle est éternelle,
Et ceux qui se sont passés d'elle
Ici-bas ont tout ignoré.

Dieu parle, il faut qu'on lui réponde.
Le seul bien qui me reste au monde
Est d'avoir quelquefois pleuré.

quick and dirty translation:+ Show Spoiler +

I've lost my strength and my life,
and my friends and my hapiness;
I've lost all but my pride
which convinces (people) of my genius.

When I knew the Truth[+female],
I thought her to be a friend;
when I understood and felt her,
She already disgusted me.

Nevertheless, she is eternal,
And those, who she passes by,
Ignored everything worthwile on earth.

God speaks, one has to answer,
The only good left me in the world
Is to have cried sometimes.



W.C. Williams - This is just to say

No rhyme, no metre, three stanzas of 4 lines. Pretty basic but 'poetically' beautiful? The first time I was force-fed this poem, I was a little confused, but now I'm much more liberal in my appreciation of things.

text: + Show Spoiler +

I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast

Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold



松尾 芭蕉 - Matsua Basho (haiku)

My Japanese isn't what it used to be in a previous life, so I nicked this one off the German wikipedia, translations included. The gist of the haiku is the combination of two ideas, in a particular form. It's very compact, which leaves little room for elaboration, the words have to be chosen with great care to express what has to be expressed while staying the form. Read the wiki article if you care to read more about the particulars, otherwise try to enjoy it

text: + Show Spoiler +

古池や
蛙飛び込む
水の音

furu ike ya
kawazu tobikomu
mizu no oto

Der alte Weiher:
Ein Frosch springt hinein.
Oh! Das Geräusch des Wassers.



Erich Arendt - Nach dem Prozeß Sokrates oder Nach den Prozessen

Now we're on! A German poem, which is usually classified as being 'hermetic'. We're getting closer to 'real poetry' now Don't run away though, I translated it, and it's basically very simple, although it has been warbled a bit to fool the media control bureau of the German Democratic Republic. The first title was its publishing title; Arendt used Sokrates as a metaphor to hide his intentions a little. The press office of the GDR wasn't retarded though, but they let things like this slip because it would only be printed a couple of hundred or thousand times, and the people who'd read it would be dissidents anyway, as long as the average East-German wasn't presented with unwelcome ideas it was more or less ok. But back to the poem. No rhyme, metre, complex breaks in sentences (a technique called enjambement), this poem is all about metaphors. Words/people are being compared to cereals, which may both be threshed. Then there is a comparison between the nazi regime and that of the GDR: (Despaired the / chimaeric flags / they're paling in the suddenly / shading / Red.) The 'flags', nazi flags, pale, to the GDR/SSSR regimes, symbolised by the colour 'Red'. Then the silent 'average Joe' is being described as having been silent during either oppression, and therefore guilty of any atrocities commited.
So this time not poetry for beauty, but for truth under an oppressive regime. Fun in its kind.

text: + Show Spoiler +

Steingrauer Tag,
der sein Lid senkt.
Knie nicht
in den Schatten!

Spreu
schleifden die Stunden,
Spreu, abermillion, die
halt nicht machen

vor deiner Stirn
- Trauerschafott -,
schneller und
schneller, ohne
Geheimnis, und -
kein blutender Kern.

Verzweifelt die
chimärischen Fahnen,
sie blichen im jäh
verdämmernden
Rot.

Gleichgeschaltet
mit abwaschbaren
Handschuhn
gleichgeschaltet durch die
gezeichneten Finger
das erschöpfte
tausendströmige Herz.

Die da
handeln, an Tischen,
mit deiner Hinfälligkeit,
allwissenden Ohrs,
ledernen
Herzens ihr Gott, sie
haben das Word:

Worte,
gedreht und
gedroschen: Hülsen
gedroschen, der
zusammengekehrte Rest.

Gehend im Kreis
der erschoßnen Gedanken
- wie war
doch der Atem groß -
halt versiegelt den Mund, daß
der Knoten
Blut
nicht Zeugnis ablege!

Wo Freude und Recht
gemeuchelt lag,
an der Wand
der Geschichte
steht noch: Du!

Gehend im Kreis - doch
der Meteor
Verfinsterung jagt
am ummauerten Himmel
knie nicht -
Blutwimper, schwarz:
das Jahrhundert.

translation:
+ Show Spoiler +


Stone-grey day,
who lowers its lid.
Don't kneel
in the shadows!

Chaff
grinded by hours
Chaff, many millions who
do not stay

for your forehead
- scaffold of sorrow -,
faster and
faster, without
secret, and -
no bleeding core.

Despaired the
chimaeric flags ['Fahne' is usually a nazi flag, eg 'die Fahne hoch' in the [link]Horst-Wessel lied]
they're paling in the suddenly
shading
Red.

Made the same [Gleichschaltung is a nazi-related word signifying the unification of a country's media]
with washable
gloves
made the same by the
painted fingers
de exhausted
heart of thousand streams.

they who
make deals there, at tables
with your obsoleteness,
with an omniscient ear,
leathern
hearted their god, they,
are doing the all talking:

words,
turned and
threshed: husks
threshed, the
swept-up rest.

Going in circles
the thoughts who've been shot
- how was
the breath drawn great -
keep your mouth closed, so
the knot
blood
doesn't give testimony!

Where joy and justice
lay murdered
at the wall
of history
is written: You!

Going in circles, still
the meteor
darkning hunts
over the walled-in sky
don't kneel -
bloody eyelash, black:
the century



E. Spenser - One day I wrote her name upon the strand

How soppy! By form a sonnet, it's rather vulgar due to the sexual reference in the last line. Due to the familiar metre and rhyme scheme it's as much a 'poem' as one could have it, a classic. Therefore, it's generally considered not to be very ugly. + Show Spoiler +
and it's one of the few poems I know by heart :x


text: + Show Spoiler +

ONE day I wrote her name upon the strand,
But came the waves and washèd it away:
Again I wrote it with a second hand,
But came the tide and made my pains his prey.

Vain man (said she) that dost in vain assay
A mortal thing so to immortalise;
For I myself shall like to this decay,
And eke my name be wipèd out likewise.

Not so (quod I); let baser things devise
To die in dust, but you shall live by fame;
My verse your virtues rare shall eternise,

And in the heavens write your glorious name:
Where, when as Death shall all the world subdue,
Our love shall live, and later life renew.



Dylan Thomas - Do not go gentle into that good night

Written for dying father, repetition of two last lines of stanzas,

text: + Show Spoiler +

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


Anatol - Sich entwickeln (to unwind(?))

And of course there are experiments! Concrete poetry, where form and meaning collide:

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


Religious poetry

Something I know very little of, if anything at all. I know a couple of poems and have had my fair share of it while studying, but my heart and mind are not with it. A couple of years ago there was an item on the news: a woman I had never heard of had died, she had published a lot of books which sold a lot of copies each, she was a poet, religious poet. How strange that a literary society which is clearly in love with ficion and fairytales and 'art for art's sake' is so unanimously opposed to religious poetry. Perhaps it is because most of it is rather in line with 'conventional' conceptions of poetry, a classic rhyme scheme and metre, and not too many metaphors and easy ones at that, a clear picture all in all?

Conclusion

'Finally! After all the words an end! Spare me and I'll read anything you like!' Just have fun, and don't mind the narcisistic literature students and Nobel prize committees who claim the right to poetry, it's fun and beauty, only they've forgotten it

***
Broodwar AI :) http://sscaitournament.com http://www.starcraftai.com/wiki/Main_Page
nepeta
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
1872 Posts
April 06 2012 20:10 GMT
#2
imgur doesn't seem to work atm pictures should start working by themselves after a while.
Broodwar AI :) http://sscaitournament.com http://www.starcraftai.com/wiki/Main_Page
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-06 21:56:43
April 06 2012 21:11 GMT
#3
Fuck yea, poetry share thread :D

Conversation with Slugs and Sarah, by Jennifer Chang
Hell, by Sarah Manguso
As One Put Drunk into the Packet-Boat, by John Ashbery
Richard Cory, by Edwin Arlington Robinson (also miniver cheevy)
Group Photo with Winter Trees, by Greg Williamson

And of course, the classics. The Raven, Rime of the Ancient Mariner (also, the song! :D), The Love Song Of J. Alfred Prufrock, Hugh Selwyn Mauberly, Danse Russe, Song of Myself, and fuckin everything by emily dickinson.

edit: found a link to group photo
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
Caissa
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States48 Posts
April 06 2012 21:42 GMT
#4
If Wish was a Raindrop...I would send u Showers....
If Happiness was a Second...I would send u Hours...
If Love was Water....I would send u the Sea..
For making this thread.. I love you
Don't underestimate the value of Doing Nothing, of just going along, listening to all the things you can't hear, and not bothering.
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
April 06 2012 21:51 GMT
#5
The one by WC Williams reminds me of a poem by May Swenson:
You are,
so yummy, brought
some fruit. Split me
an apple. We'll
get red, white
halves each, our
juice on the
Indian spread. (Nature 94)
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-06 21:57:22
April 06 2012 21:56 GMT
#6
Poetry has always seemed beyond alien to me.

I wish I could appreciate it more, but I simply find it horrendous in all its forms. I acknowledge that that is entirely the result of my own perspective, not the idea that poetry has no value.

But I just don't get it. It doesn't click with me, not in the way books or movies do.


I have tried several times to enjoy it, but in the end I can only conclude that I will hate poetry until I am six feet under.

I can quote long piece of text, remember dialogue years after reading or hearing it, but I can't remember a single poem, no matter how hard I try. It is like my entire brain revolts at the notion.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
April 06 2012 22:10 GMT
#7
zalz, to me that's as ridiculous as a person saying "I don't like music." Something people say when they haven't yet had a chance to explore the medium with any sincerity. The only difference is that there isn't an immense amount of pressure to learn to enjoy poetry, the way there is for music and movies.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7863 Posts
April 06 2012 22:11 GMT
#8
On April 07 2012 06:56 zalz wrote:
Poetry has always seemed beyond alien to me.

I wish I could appreciate it more, but I simply find it horrendous in all its forms. I acknowledge that that is entirely the result of my own perspective, not the idea that poetry has no value.

But I just don't get it. It doesn't click with me, not in the way books or movies do.


I have tried several times to enjoy it, but in the end I can only conclude that I will hate poetry until I am six feet under.

I can quote long piece of text, remember dialogue years after reading or hearing it, but I can't remember a single poem, no matter how hard I try. It is like my entire brain revolts at the notion.

I sincerly pity you
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
April 06 2012 22:15 GMT
#9
On April 07 2012 06:56 zalz wrote:
Poetry has always seemed beyond alien to me.

I wish I could appreciate it more, but I simply find it horrendous in all its forms. I acknowledge that that is entirely the result of my own perspective, not the idea that poetry has no value.

But I just don't get it. It doesn't click with me, not in the way books or movies do.


I have tried several times to enjoy it, but in the end I can only conclude that I will hate poetry until I am six feet under.

I can quote long piece of text, remember dialogue years after reading or hearing it, but I can't remember a single poem, no matter how hard I try. It is like my entire brain revolts at the notion.

i'm going to use OP's metaphor for this. TO enjoy poetry, you have to realize that it isn't special and stop treating it as such. Treat is a you would a cheap movie you found in the bargain bin, and don't expect anything. Too many people think poetry needs to be of astoudning beauty and perfect and give them some crazy insight on life and love, but it won't. That girl of your dreams isn't any more special than any other girl in the world. To expect unachievable qualities in something will only bring disenchantment.

for instance, this poem, simply entitled "Poem"
As the cat
climbed over
the top of

the jamcloset
first the right
forefoot

carefully
then the hind
stepped down

into the pit of
the empty
flowerpot

what is this? it is merely a picture in words. a small .gif of syllables. A cat into a flower pot. That's it. Which, in my opinion, is funny, ironic. No theme, no metaphor, nothing. Skim over this as you would skim over a meme on reddit. Look, read, done. Either you enjoyed it or you didn't.

for instance, take this scene from Before Sunrise. A random dude writes a random poem for strangers on a scrap of paper. Poetry is this. It is random clever notes to yourself on the corners of newspapers, it is a greeting card you write to your auntie in rhyme, it is a funny story told by a 3 year old. Poetry is not something immortal or special, poetry is another random girl on the street that you could breeze by, but write down on paper instead.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
nepeta
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
1872 Posts
April 06 2012 22:51 GMT
#10
Or to re-use my the ladies metaphor: some people are gay. Or they don't like music. Many other beautiful things out here on this silly little flying heated mudd ball, don't get your knickers in a twist :p

I do wonder though, do you get nauseous when you meet someone named Peter Parker

[image loading]

It's everywhere! :o
Broodwar AI :) http://sscaitournament.com http://www.starcraftai.com/wiki/Main_Page
homeless_guy
Profile Joined June 2005
United States321 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-07 00:12:59
April 07 2012 00:11 GMT
#11
w.s. merwin --> shadow of sirius

read it now
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
April 07 2012 00:23 GMT
#12
On April 07 2012 09:11 homeless_guy wrote:
w.s. merwin --> shadow of sirius

read it now

The whole book, I presume? Any place where I can read it for free? I'll buy it if I need to of course, but I'd much rather not
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
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