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3/16 today. Was ranked 1st in my division with 100 points over the second place guy. Ended the day at 18th place, getting my ass kicked by top 25 players. I've been bouncing between top masters and diamond for the last three days, one day blows it apart.
I blame TvP. I have no idea how to play it. The wins I DO grab are against void ray or DT cheeses. Throw a second base in and I'm fucking DONE. My TvT winrate is 60%(!) and my vZ is 57%. vP? 44%. Can't win it. I refuse to 1/1/1 because I'm convinced that Blizzard will nerf it (but that would probably require David Kim to actually play the game) and I'd rather develop what little control I have than rely on one base cheese.
Basically resorted to playing HeartGold and EV training a new lineup to cool off.
Btw, how many builds do ya'll use? I have one for each matchup. Would it make a difference learning a couple others in each?
 
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What scares me is that you say you lose lose lose but you only use 1 build per mu? :O Ever think your build doesnt work or your mechanics dont fit the build, etc?
So technically, yes, I think you should have a few. Most people say 3 for each matchup, etc, but It's up to you. One however, is too little I blieve
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I have 3-4 for each matchup. Couple normal standard macro builds and some decent all-ins.
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On April 02 2012 11:57 Korinai wrote:
I have 3-4 for each matchup. Couple normal standard macro builds and some decent all-ins.
I approve of your quote.
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Top masters... And Diamond... is a HUGE Skill difference... How can you be that inconsistent?
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On April 02 2012 12:03 Vlare wrote:
Top masters... And Diamond... is a HUGE Skill difference... How can you be that inconsistent?
I'm REAAAAALLLLY BAD at defending allins of any race and again, I'm really bad vs P, so when most of my opponents on a ladder day are T or Z, my MMR spikes hard. I also meant I play them, but I wouldn't consider myself on that tier yet, though my vT isn't that bad.
Thanks for the responses about the builds. At the very least, that should keep me off tilt.
On April 02 2012 11:56 Galaxy_Zerg wrote:
What scares me is that you say you lose lose lose but you only use 1 build per mu? :O Ever think your build doesnt work or your mechanics dont fit the build, etc?
So technically, yes, I think you should have a few. Most people say 3 for each matchup, etc, but It's up to you. One however, is too little I blieve
And yeah I have, but then I've thought "Well, until I can win using only this, I probably won't win a lot with another. I should probably stick to this" and then generally do. TvT is the only MU I play different BOs in.
Come to think of it, that might explain a bit.
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The fact that you win 4/9 of all your TvPs by simply doing the same build every time is pretty telling at the other end of the spectrum, to be honest. And you clearly win plenty of times without even caring about what your opponent does. Maybe you need to react more to your opponent's build, like most players >.>
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On April 02 2012 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The fact that you win 4/9 of all your TvPs by simply doing the same build every time is pretty telling at the other end of the spectrum, to be honest. And you clearly win plenty of times without even caring about what your opponent does. Maybe you need to react more to your opponent's build, like most players >.>
In what way? I don't mean to sound stupid, but just rearranging things? Cause I do some of that, vs 1 base Protoss cheese, I'll get an earlier ebay, vs 1 rax FE into biomech, I'll take a faster SP or vs mech I'll get the factory and an Armory before an SP.
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One or two basic macro build for each match up. I also have a few all ins that I rarely do that I only know for when I have to play a kid in like GM for CSL.
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On April 02 2012 12:16 AKomrade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2012 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The fact that you win 4/9 of all your TvPs by simply doing the same build every time is pretty telling at the other end of the spectrum, to be honest. And you clearly win plenty of times without even caring about what your opponent does. Maybe you need to react more to your opponent's build, like most players >.> In what way? I don't mean to sound stupid, but just rearranging things? Cause I do some of that, vs 1 base Protoss cheese, I'll get an earlier ebay, vs 1 rax FE into biomech, I'll take a faster SP or vs mech I'll get the factory and an Armory before an SP.
Not merely rearranging things, but keep in mind that only your late game composition should really be roughly the same in most TvPs (MMMVG). You can open up with 2rax pressure (or play defensively with 1rax FE), sometimes with more rax and all-in (or half all-in with a few scvs), cloaked banshee (or not cloak), hellion drops, fast 3rd in-base OC for amazing econ, ghost rush, etc.
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For TvP there are no macro builds because they all are (except 1/1/1). The only thing that you would do differently would be the opening (no-gas,reaper,marauder ect). All mid/lategame is the same so I would only learn 1 opener (i have bias against nogas fe/3cc) and just stick to it. Having 1 opener you can perform almost perfectly is better than having 2/3 that you can only perform great.
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United States3432 Posts
just try switching it up. sometimes take a fast 3rd, sometimes go 5 rax pressure after expo.. don't just 1 rax FE every game too. gas openings are really good in TvP!! ladder is ladder, it doesn't matter. (sick unintentional rhyme) there is no reason to only have 1 build per match up when you have an unlimited resource to practice with. next time you ladder do a different opening every game if you lose, move on to the next build. that's what i've been doing lately and it has greatly improved my gameplay
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You know, if you're losing macro games, then...don't let it go to a macro situation. Win with a timing attack, or go with a build that aims to say, force certain tech or take out the 3rd.
Being good in TvT and TvZ seems to suggest you have good control. Why not take advantage of that and rax pressure or something?
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On April 02 2012 12:30 iTzSnypah wrote:
Having 1 opener you can perform almost perfectly is better than having 2/3 that you can only perform great.
This. If you're losing that much against Protoss, but you're using a good, solid build, it's not the build or even the amount of builds that's the problem. It's either a.) you're not executing it right, or b.) your general "style" of play (how you control your units, when you're putting on pressure, how you control taking bases/trading bases) is giving you trouble.
For me, I'm generally top 8 diamond as Terran, and TvP and TvT are both my strong matchups. TvZ, on the other hand, almost always rips me to shreds. I've tried different builds and everything, but what it comes down to is just how I move out/control my units, in what ways I put on pressure... for whatever reason, I just always lose way too many units, or I'm not able to defend enough places at once, etc. Lately I've been improving those small little things, and I'm starting to beat Zergs. I'm guessing TvP is the same thing with you. You probably just need to analyze the other reasons for why you lose other than build orders, and correct your play accordingly.
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On April 02 2012 11:46 AKomrade wrote:
3/16 today. Was ranked 1st in my division with 100 points over the second place guy. Ended the day at 18th place, getting my ass kicked by top 25 players. I've been bouncing between top masters and diamond for the last three days, one day blows it apart.
That's not bad, I went from 1st in my division and playing Masters every second game (I'm Diamond) to losing 19 of the last 20 (and before that going like 4 out of 12) and I was matched against a gold in my last match (finally won). I don't even know what/how it all happened.
I was trying new builds in new situations and all but somewhere along the line I really started failing and playing really sloppily. All part of learning though I guess.
Btw, how many builds do ya'll use? I have one for each matchup. Would it make a difference learning a couple others in each?
Depends on mood. 1 build for each matchup seems restrictive-- but I guess it depends on what you mean by 'build' if its just the first 3-5 minutes I can see it, but limiting yourself to one thing after that seems clunky to me... (though I did just go on that crazy losing streak, so take what I say with salt)
PvP really need to react to scouting, depends on map. Many many many builds. I've been having a lot of success with phoenix compositions. (before losing streak ofc)
PvZ normally FFE into 4gate +1 w/ or w/out VR, usually into collosus tech after. Occasionally go nexus first into 8gate or something crazy for shits and giggles if I can get away with it. once in a blue moon will do the gate-robo-3gate immortal/stalker harass with warp prism into 3-4 immortal allin. PvZ as a general MU seems broken atm.
PvT 1gate expand, nexus first, 1gate robo expand or 2gate expand, depends on mood. Reacting to scouting usually go into double forge, 2 base templar expand, or something.
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On April 02 2012 15:04 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2012 11:46 AKomrade wrote:
3/16 today. Was ranked 1st in my division with 100 points over the second place guy. Ended the day at 18th place, getting my ass kicked by top 25 players. I've been bouncing between top masters and diamond for the last three days, one day blows it apart.
That's not bad, I went from 1st in my division and playing Masters every second game (I'm Diamond) to losing 19 of the last 20 (and before that going like 4 out of 12) and I was matched against a gold in my last match (finally won). I don't even know what/how it all happened. I was trying new builds in new situations and all but somewhere along the line I really started failing and playing really sloppily. All part of learning though I guess. Show nested quote +
Btw, how many builds do ya'll use? I have one for each matchup. Would it make a difference learning a couple others in each?
Depends on mood. 1 build for each matchup seems restrictive-- but I guess it depends on what you mean by 'build' if its just the first 3-5 minutes I can see it, but limiting yourself to one thing after that seems clunky to me... (though I did just go on that crazy losing streak, so take what I say with salt) PvP really need to react to scouting, depends on map. Many many many builds. I've been having a lot of success with phoenix compositions. (before losing streak ofc) PvZ normally FFE into 4gate +1 w/ or w/out VR, usually into collosus tech after. Occasionally go nexus first into 8gate or something crazy for shits and giggles if I can get away with it. once in a blue moon will do the gate-robo-3gate immortal/stalker harass with warp prism into 3-4 immortal allin. PvZ as a general MU seems broken atm. PvT 1gate expand, nexus first, 1gate robo expand or 2gate expand, depends on mood. Reacting to scouting usually go into double forge, 2 base templar expand, or something.
I had nothing but masters players up till my 8th loss, then every other game until my 13th. My three wins came off of a top 50 and top 25 Masters, then a top 8 Diamond. I wouldn't have been so upset if today wasn't the last day for promotions. I'll probably use the ladder lock to flesh out some new builds.
Are your builds really refined (like ups/thremal lance at certain times) or is it just sort of on-the-fly-but-I-know-what-I
m-doing stuff?
On April 02 2012 14:32 CakeSauc3 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2012 12:30 iTzSnypah wrote:
Having 1 opener you can perform almost perfectly is better than having 2/3 that you can only perform great. This. If you're losing that much against Protoss, but you're using a good, solid build, it's not the build or even the amount of builds that's the problem. It's either a.) you're not executing it right, or b.) your general "style" of play (how you control your units, when you're putting on pressure, how you control taking bases/trading bases) is giving you trouble. For me, I'm generally top 8 diamond as Terran, and TvP and TvT are both my strong matchups. TvZ, on the other hand, almost always rips me to shreds. I've tried different builds and everything, but what it comes down to is just how I move out/control my units, in what ways I put on pressure... for whatever reason, I just always lose way too many units, or I'm not able to defend enough places at once, etc. Lately I've been improving those small little things, and I'm starting to beat Zergs. I'm guessing TvP is the same thing with you. You probably just need to analyze the other reasons for why you lose other than build orders, and correct your play accordingly.
Well, thats the reason that I only play one build in each. I currently have been using a 1RFE> five rax pressure build using CS and marines to hit a timing at 8:30 or so. I have a feeling its not working very well later on because of what looks like the new metagame for P (double ups right after/just before colossi is really popular with the players I face), but I'm not entirely sure.
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EPT
