|
OP Edit: This is not a thread about what methods are the most effective for treating depression or anxiety. If you lift weights or take medication and it's helped you, tell us how it's helped you. But don't give others any advice aside from seeking a licensed counselor or psychiatrist.
For context about who I am, and why I’m sitting here writing these things, please see my previous blog post.
--
You haven’t worked in nearly two years. You’re broke, living on the state, in a vocational rehab program. You’re sick of it. You don’t have two red cents to rub together, and you hate being broke. You come from an upper middle-class family who’s not contributing a dime, so you have to depend on others for literally anything. You’ve been homeless for a few days. Finding a job is roughly impossible – you have a two year gap in your work history, and no education beyond high school, where your grades were thoroughly underwhelming. You’re sick of it. You’re sick of all of it. You feel like a piece of shit for being so dependent on everybody.
But when the time comes to actually search for a job, your effort is lacking. You find little excuses not to apply to various positions. You have to be reminded to call back. You spend maybe an hour or two a day searching and applying, and even then you find yourself frequently distracted by Team Liquid.
The latter sentence sounds like somebody who doesn’t really want to find a job, doesn’t it? One of those folks whom politicians vilify as the “lazy poor,” when they try to cut direct funding to the destitute. But both the latter and the former paragraphs describe the same person. It sounds like a contradiction. It’s not. I know this person, personally. You might know someone like this, too. Maybe they’re employed, in school. They know they need to kick their ass into gear to make decent grades, and they desire the result that this effort would bring them, but they can’t seem to do it. It seems genuinely distressing to them.
There are a number of reasons people have a hard time getting motivated to do stuff. Most of it is nonessential stuff. I’ll take the trash out tomorrow, Idra’s about to take a game off MC. I’ll start exercising next week, I’m tired today. I’ll clean the apartment next weekend, I’m too busy this weekend. Most of it is nowhere near as critical as finding employment to regain one’s own self-respect and avoid homelessness, or studying to keep your grades high enough to keep a scholarship.
I am sure that there are many reasons people have a hard time getting motivated to really do something essential, but the one I’m going to discuss today is fear.
Everyone fears failure, to a degree. But it doesn’t stop them—at least, not from doing these essential things, examples of which I’ve laid out. Their fear of what will happen if they don’t do these things outstrips their fear of failure by far. Extreme fear of failure such as this is a symptom of anxiety, or depression. (I have mentioned previously that I have a hard time separating these.) I believe it to be more a symptom of the former than the latter. For me, anyway, my mind races, and as it races, a million ways I could fuck it up, let myself down, let others down, be subject to ridicule, cause disappointment flash through my mind at roughly one million miles per minute. None of it is particularly coherent. In the end, for me, it takes on a physiological symptom, as these things frequently do – a pit that forms in my solar plexus and extends towards my gut.
I’m an engineer, as I have previously mentioned. I’m not a genius, but I’m not an idiot, either. I enjoy taking on new challenges, in theory. But when these challenges become something I actually need to think about – planning an algorithm carefully, sketching a flowchart with some foresight, developing safety requirements with some breadth of vision – I shy away from the task, and take a brute-force, trial-and-error approach instead. I’m afraid to sit down with a pencil and paper. I’m afraid to engage my brain. I’m afraid I might turn my head on and find out that I’m actually just a fucking idiot, not up to the task. I look at the problem, I identify roughly what it will take to solve it, and as I do, my gut starts to tighten up, to develop that pit. I’ve even got a little pit in my gut as I write this, as I’m afraid that I have no idea where it’s going. (I don’t) and I’ll just wind up trailing off and looking silly. I’m actually a fairly capable writer, (though I’m fully aware this blog isn’t showing it) but I haven’t written a story in years for this same reason.
Putting effort into things is scary. You’re committing yourself to the success of that task. Job hunting is scary, because what if you do get an interview? And if you get an interview, what if you actually get the job? What if your friends and family are overjoyed to hear that you’re finally making it, and you’re beginning to develop some self-esteem for the first time in literally years, and then on your first day you drop a tray of cokes onto the ambassador to Eretria? And then everybody just looks at you and says, “I knew it.” Or worse, you look in the mirror and say that.
I’m lucky. I kind of let myself get shoved through the system – I got good grades in college, and I got an easy job straight out of the door. I have very little thought involved in my job. I’m scared of taking on more responsibility. I’m scared of failure, of being fired. Of letting myself and my girlfriend and my mother down. I am starting to work on topcoder exercises, which are exactly the kind of things I’m horrible at, precisely because they take thought, planning, and thoughtfulness. And I fail sometimes, but nobody cares but me, which is a good start. I’m also going to start my MBA in the fall, and with any luck, my company will pay for it. This latter is a cop out – management is a new kind of challenge for me, sidestepping the one I’m currently afraid of. But it’s a step towards change, and making a change when your situation is comfortable is what somebody like me is most afraid of. The ultimate failure is trying to change your life for the better and failing. That’s the fear that the person I described in the opening paragraphs of this blog truly fears.
Sometimes, people like me luck out. We are able to conquer our fear of failure by succeeding enough times. Sometimes not. I still haven’t figured it out, but I’m trying a few things at a time. Between that and the counseling I receive, I might be able to figure something out. I’ll let you know if I do.
--
As always: If you find yourself in a situation similar to mine, or like the one I described in the opening paragraphs of this blog, or if you simply find yourself unable to start doing the things that you need to do to create a tolerable life for yourself, I'd like to encourage you again to get help. See a therapist. Get treatment. Nobody will force drugs down your throat and nobody will withhold them from you. Nobody will ask you to cry about your childhood and nobody will stop you from doing so. Because I finally took others' advice and sought out help, I am learning to cope with my issues, and push towards leading a normal, healthy life.
 
|
Your last post described me perfectly. This does the same thing. Thanks for these.
|
I am glad you sound hopeful. Hope is not the correct word. I am glad you are remaining persistent. That feels better. I do not know what else to say. So hugs for you.
|
I don't actually think it's as simple as "get treatment." Its something people like me struggle with through their entire life. Hoping always to make some ground and to hold it.
|
I want to say something you most likely haven't heard. Proper strength training (squats and deadlifts) does miracles for self confidence and mental fortitude. Also, following a proper guidelines most people make notable gains in 3-4 months. Check TL thread and read OP :D
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299453
|
On March 30 2012 11:40 GoTuNk! wrote:I want to say something you most likely haven't heard. Proper strength training (squats and deadlifts) does miracles for self confidence and mental fortitude. Also, following a proper guidelines most people make notable gains in 3-4 months. Check TL thread and read OP :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299453
I've been a heavy weightlifter and athlete my whole life (including squats and deadlifts, as they are important). I've since stopped a couple years ago and my depression/anxiety hasn't changed. I do believe it can help some people, but not everyone :/ If you haven't tried it though, EXERCISE! It won't hurt.
OFF TOPIC EDIT: Another notable symptom of depression/anxiety is the lack of focus. This has gotten to the point where I can hardly even read. Seriously. I've been struggling to learn a second language, regular schooling, music, etc. I haven't been able to do any of this, which doesn't help the whole problem.
|
On March 30 2012 11:40 GoTuNk! wrote:I want to say something you most likely haven't heard. Proper strength training (squats and deadlifts) does miracles for self confidence and mental fortitude. Also, following a proper guidelines most people make notable gains in 3-4 months. Check TL thread and read OP :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299453
I have 4 percent body fat and I'm ripped to shit. Athletes suffer from chronic depression too man. If there is one thing I don't lack it's confidence and I embrace failure.
Vega you and I are a lot alike after all, but I'm still not fond of your other blog entry. More notably with the style and format which bothered me.
|
On March 30 2012 11:40 GoTuNk! wrote:I want to say something you most likely haven't heard. Proper strength training (squats and deadlifts) does miracles for self confidence and mental fortitude. Also, following a proper guidelines most people make notable gains in 3-4 months. Check TL thread and read OP :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299453
No it does not.
If someone actually has depression or anxiety they are suffering from a neurological problem that can't be fixed by going to a gym.
Please stop posting false statements and making yourself look like an idiot.
If you actually suffer from depression or anxiety (mostly depression) medication is #1 by far, without a doubt.
|
#1 is emotional wellbeing and that can come from a sense of achievement that going to the gym can potentially provide. ESPECIALLY if you are a skinny weedy girlless tool and if you follow the simple program and have support on tlhf
i dont know if medication will help so much if you believe you have underlying issues with your life that need to be resolved before you can ever be happy with yourself
User was warned for this post
|
also i am all too familiar with the Fear . its hard to honestly describe and say that we understand it . i think its best described as a fear of the unknown and a fear of effort, change and commitment. its not so noble as "fear of commitment" or whatever single simple thing that most ppl imply. you do use the words i used though, just they are slightly hidden or played down. "Putting effort into things is scary" can be reworded a little less nobly
|
On March 30 2012 17:50 FFGenerations wrote:
#1 is emotional wellbeing and that can come from a sense of achievement that going to the gym can potentially provide. ESPECIALLY if you are a skinny weedy girlless tool and if you follow the simple program and have support on tlhf
i dont know if medication will help so much if you believe you have underlying issues with your life that need to be resolved before you can ever be happy with yourself
Medication never claims to help with life problems. If you have underlying problems you always need to deal with them, but sometimes it's impossible to deal with them until you are in a better mental state, which is where the medication can come in. There is a physical component to depression, and medication can help.
|
On March 30 2012 17:18 MaddogStarCraft wrote:No it does not. If someone actually has depression or anxiety they are suffering from a neurological problem that can't be fixed by going to a gym. Please stop posting false statements and making yourself look like an idiot. If you actually suffer from depression or anxiety (mostly depression) medication is #1 by far, without a doubt.
You should take your own advice. Medication is not #1 without a contest or even required for all people with depression or anxiety. There is tons of research about the role of exercise (not necessarily strength training). Every bit of information actually states pretty clearly that Proper Sleep, Eating, and EXERCISE are absolutely fundamental to having proper mental health.
|
On March 30 2012 21:08 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 17:18 MaddogStarCraft wrote:On March 30 2012 11:40 GoTuNk! wrote:I want to say something you most likely haven't heard. Proper strength training (squats and deadlifts) does miracles for self confidence and mental fortitude. Also, following a proper guidelines most people make notable gains in 3-4 months. Check TL thread and read OP :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299453 No it does not. If someone actually has depression or anxiety they are suffering from a neurological problem that can't be fixed by going to a gym. Please stop posting false statements and making yourself look like an idiot. If you actually suffer from depression or anxiety (mostly depression) medication is #1 by far, without a doubt. You should take your own advice. Medication is not #1 without a contest or even required for all people with depression or anxiety. There is tons of research about the role of exercise (not necessarily strength training). Every bit of information actually states pretty clearly that Proper Sleep, Eating, and EXERCISE are absolutely fundamental to having proper mental health.
However, it is possible that even with all of those, a person can be depressed. Making these better will not always result in improvement of mental health if there is a serious problem. Hell, if the problem is bad enough it can be nearly impossible to even achieve proper sleep, exercise and eating...
Neither medication nor a proper lifestyle will be a magical cure-all for problems like depression. Either one has a chance at improving things, but sometimes one works better than the other.
|
Without replying to everybody individually, I would like to ask that the advice and arguments about said advice which are being tossed around on this thread cease. The only advice that can be given out by anybody without training as a psychiatrist, psychologist, or licensed social worker is to go see one of those people. They will give you more specific help. Unlicensed, unverified psychological advice is more dangerous than it is helpful to people suffering from psychiatric disorders.
To settle all of these arguments quickly and quietly:
Medication helps some people. Other people it does not help. A psychiatrist will help determine this with you.
Having a healthy lifestyle helps some people. Other people it does not help. Both psychiatrists and psychologists are licensed to help make this determination with you.
Again, the arguing stops after this post (Angel's post, actually, as I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt). That is not what this blog is for. If you want to share your experiences and tell us how various things have or have not helped you, you're welcome to. If you feel the need to reply and say "well if you'd just do this you might feel better," don't.
---
A couple of replies:
On March 30 2012 11:38 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't actually think it's as simple as "get treatment." Its something people like me struggle with through their entire life. Hoping always to make some ground and to hold it.
If you've gotten treatment, you know it's anything but simple.
I've struggled with it my entire life, as well, as has my girlfriend. We both have a hard time gaining traction in our respective areas. But you can't start if you don't start.
I hope you are seeking help. If not, I hope you will. Whatever else it is, it's a start.
On March 30 2012 14:24 StarStruck wrote:
Vega you and I are a lot alike after all, but I'm still not fond of your other blog entry. More notably with the style and format which bothered me.
If you have specific criticisms about the style and format, I'd love to hear them. I'm aware my blogging skills are subpar, this being essentially my first blog. (I tried to do a thing about a year ago for about a day, I'm not counting it.)
|
On March 30 2012 21:16 Bobbias wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 21:08 Angel_ wrote:On March 30 2012 17:18 MaddogStarCraft wrote:On March 30 2012 11:40 GoTuNk! wrote:I want to say something you most likely haven't heard. Proper strength training (squats and deadlifts) does miracles for self confidence and mental fortitude. Also, following a proper guidelines most people make notable gains in 3-4 months. Check TL thread and read OP :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299453 No it does not. If someone actually has depression or anxiety they are suffering from a neurological problem that can't be fixed by going to a gym. Please stop posting false statements and making yourself look like an idiot. If you actually suffer from depression or anxiety (mostly depression) medication is #1 by far, without a doubt. You should take your own advice. Medication is not #1 without a contest or even required for all people with depression or anxiety. There is tons of research about the role of exercise (not necessarily strength training). Every bit of information actually states pretty clearly that Proper Sleep, Eating, and EXERCISE are absolutely fundamental to having proper mental health. However, it is possible that even with all of those, a person can be depressed. Making these better will not always result in improvement of mental health if there is a serious problem. Hell, if the problem is bad enough it can be nearly impossible to even achieve proper sleep, exercise and eating... Neither medication nor a proper lifestyle will be a magical cure-all for problems like depression. Either one has a chance at improving things, but sometimes one works better than the other.
of course. just like both are needed. and other things are needed. and in some people and depending on the circumstances and whats actually wrong some things are needed more than others. and in some cases people just dont get better. and the person actually wanting to get better. and etc etc etc etc etc. too many factors.
my point was this "exercise is useless, you need medication" argument he made is actually just ignorant as all hell. not that exercise will fix everything and you don't need medication. because some people definitely do.
----
Edit:
The only advice that can be given out by anybody without training as a psychiatrist, psychologist, or licensed social worker is to go see one of those people.
this isn't true. this thread itself is evidence of that fact.
|
On March 30 2012 22:52 Angel_ wrote:
The only advice that can be given out by anybody without training as a psychiatrist, psychologist, or licensed social worker is to go see one of those people.
this isn't true. this thread itself is evidence of that fact.
I'll say it again. Unlicensed psychiatric advice is dangerous, and it stays out of my thread. The message of this blog is "get help." If you want to discuss in PMs specific things such as medication and exercise, or you want to share on this blog how medication or exercise have helped you specifically, feel free. But everything else has generated too much arguing and bad advice (which again, as far as I'm concerned, is any advice). This is the cutoff post.
|
On March 30 2012 21:08 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 17:18 MaddogStarCraft wrote:On March 30 2012 11:40 GoTuNk! wrote:I want to say something you most likely haven't heard. Proper strength training (squats and deadlifts) does miracles for self confidence and mental fortitude. Also, following a proper guidelines most people make notable gains in 3-4 months. Check TL thread and read OP :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299453 No it does not. If someone actually has depression or anxiety they are suffering from a neurological problem that can't be fixed by going to a gym. Please stop posting false statements and making yourself look like an idiot. If you actually suffer from depression or anxiety (mostly depression) medication is #1 by far, without a doubt. You should take your own advice. Medication is not #1 without a contest or even required for all people with depression or anxiety. There is tons of research about the role of exercise (not necessarily strength training). Every bit of information actually states pretty clearly that Proper Sleep, Eating, and EXERCISE are absolutely fundamental to having proper mental health.
I said mainly depression.
Clinical depression (suicidal thoughts and or minor self harm) is caused because of the chemical serotonin is being sent back into the same neurotransmitters that it came from and therefore is unable to regulate the persons mood. Medication is needed here.
With anxiety it depends on the severity...
If someone has minor GAD then yes medication isn't necessary but when someone can't leave their house for 6-12 months unless they pop their benzoes then yes medication is #1. We can break down every case although generally with clinical depression and medium to severe anxiety medication comes first.
|
On March 30 2012 17:50 FFGenerations wrote:
#1 is emotional wellbeing and that can come from a sense of achievement that going to the gym can potentially provide. ESPECIALLY if you are a skinny weedy girlless tool and if you follow the simple program and have support on tlhf
i dont know if medication will help so much if you believe you have underlying issues with your life that need to be resolved before you can ever be happy with yourself
Please, don't ever reproduce you fucking excuse for a human being.
You undermine everything that humanity has achieved from fire to quantum mechanics.
You are so unbelievably detrimental to the human species, refer back to sentence one... DON'T EVER REPRODUCE.
I am fucking ashamed to sit here and have to admit that you and I share DNA. You fucking imbecile, go read a book you stupid fucker.
User was banned for this post.
|
On March 30 2012 22:46 Vega62a wrote:Without replying to everybody individually, I would like to ask that the advice and arguments about said advice which are being tossed around on this thread cease. The only advice that can be given out by anybody without training as a psychiatrist, psychologist, or licensed social worker is to go see one of those people. They will give you more specific help. Unlicensed, unverified psychological advice is more dangerous than it is helpful to people suffering from psychiatric disorders. To settle all of these arguments quickly and quietly: Medication helps some people. Other people it does not help. A psychiatrist will help determine this with you. Having a healthy lifestyle helps some people. Other people it does not help. Both psychiatrists and psychologists are licensed to help make this determination with you. Again, the arguing stops after this post (Angel's post, actually, as I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt). That is not what this blog is for. If you want to share your experiences and tell us how various things have or have not helped you, you're welcome to. If you feel the need to reply and say "well if you'd just do this you might feel better," don't. --- A couple of replies: Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 11:38 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't actually think it's as simple as "get treatment." Its something people like me struggle with through their entire life. Hoping always to make some ground and to hold it. If you've gotten treatment, you know it's anything but simple. I've struggled with it my entire life, as well, as has my girlfriend. We both have a hard time gaining traction in our respective areas. But you can't start if you don't start. I hope you are seeking help. If not, I hope you will. Whatever else it is, it's a start.
It is a start, but I haven't really heard of anyone who's beaten procrastination. I know noone who doesn't procrastinate at all. I
don't think therapy helps but I could be wrong.
|
On March 30 2012 23:45 MaddogStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 17:50 FFGenerations wrote:
#1 is emotional wellbeing and that can come from a sense of achievement that going to the gym can potentially provide. ESPECIALLY if you are a skinny weedy girlless tool and if you follow the simple program and have support on tlhf
i dont know if medication will help so much if you believe you have underlying issues with your life that need to be resolved before you can ever be happy with yourself Please, don't ever reproduce you fucking excuse for a human being. You undermine everything that humanity has achieved from fire to quantum mechanics. You are so unbelievably detrimental to the human species, refer back to sentence one... DON'T EVER REPRODUCE. I am fucking ashamed to sit here and have to admit that you and I share DNA. You fucking imbecile, go read a book you stupid fucker.
sorry what? if you are a skinny weedy girl-less tool, then potentially going to the gym can provide a sense of achievement and emotional wellbeing? a lot of books will actually suggest this
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
