• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:00
CEST 06:00
KST 13:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror2[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup8StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)67Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2316
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Fantasy returning? Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague 20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7970 users

What exactly is the gap between pro gamers and Masters? -…

Blogs > Brandish
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-07 22:44:12
March 07 2012 22:43 GMT
#41
On March 08 2012 00:35 BrTarolg wrote:
Gap between D and C on iccup ]xxxxxxx[
Gap between C and Grandmasters on sc2 ]x[
Gap between progamer and grandmasters ]xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[
Gap between C and bw progamer ]xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx...*10[
I like this notation


The gap between D and C on Iccup is a lot bigger than that. - -

In either case I don't like using numerical values to make a point.
TylerThaCreator
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States906 Posts
March 07 2012 23:44 GMT
#42
On March 08 2012 07:18 DueleR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 08:47 HardlyNever wrote:
Basically what I see are a lot of players that can do 1 single thing on a pro level sometimes. I'd put myself in this category as well. Maybe they have a particular build they are good at, and sometimes they really nail it. Maybe they have good stalker micro, and sometimes they do especially well with it in a game. It is about consistency as well.


I floated around top masters on NA for a period of time last year and this is probably the most accurate description of how I felt about myself and the skill level of most of the players I faced on ladder. I had a few go-to builds I used for each match-up, and for all of them I had more or less "pro-level" timings. Like, I would watch a replay of myself and a replay of a pro executing the same build, and things would more or less line up 10-15 minutes into the game. This, plus decent micro, was enough to get me to high masters on NA.

So basically, if you saw a good replay of mine, there wouldn't be much on the surface that you could use to differentiate my play from a pro's. But never once did I think I could actually be a pro, or compete with them on a consistent basis (and I felt the same way about most high masters on NA - I'm sure the Korean server would be different). I could take games off GMs and even a few mid-tier NA pros on teams, but I was severely lacking in many areas - creativity to come up with my own builds, decision-making in complicated/novel late-game situations, not falling apart in pressure sitautions, etc. Add to that the simple problem of stamina - I just didn't have the energy to "try" for more than 10-15 games a day, and when I played games past that limit the quality of my play deteriorated significantly. All this meant I eventually realized I never was going to break that high master's wall.

Anyway, those qualities - poise, creativity, stamina, decision-making - I feel are what separates people like me (essentially copy machines that are decent enough at executing set builds) and people who have what it takes to make it to the next level with hard work. And of course, they're the same qualities that are important to succeeding in a tournament setting, which is where pros make their careers.


Being a copy machine definitely puts you at the pro level - it isn't necessary (but definitely what sets one pro above another) to have your own builds. Decision making in lategame situations is something that comes with time for everyone, along with stamina and not getting nervous in pressure situations. Being a pro and being a high ladder player is not quite as far apart as you may think.
aka SethN
Gann1
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1575 Posts
March 07 2012 23:47 GMT
#43
About tree fitty.

Seriously, you can't put an exact number on player skill.
I drop suckas like Plinko
aMEkaRmy
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada633 Posts
March 08 2012 03:31 GMT
#44
Imo low - mid masters to high masters is a gap no one really understands. Low masters are bad, Truely. You can get to masters by 4gating or 6 pooling or doing some silly all in, but when you continue to climb the ladder you suddenly face players with the ability to hold off the builds and the players are never able to macro out of it, So to answer your question it's a dumb question... Pro's will 100% of the tim beat bad players, even if they can get GM. Their mechanics and mind set are on a higher level. I've executed a perfectly timed and micro'd 8gate vs TSLhyun and he absolutely crushed me, but when I do it to a mid teir GM player I crush them with it. The skill gap is huge, more so than any non-pro could understand.
Team Captain for FXO.NA Follow me on twitter @FXOkarmy
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
March 08 2012 21:53 GMT
#45
You guys must think pros are some sort of omnipotent gods. Ask yourself this. What's more likely to happen? A bronze taking a game off of a mid masters? Or a mid master's taking a game off a pro? Watch western pros stream while playing on smurf accounts. They are still very capapble of losing to competent mid masters guys who know basic builds and can execute them well, whereas there is no chance in hell a mid masters player will ever lose to anyone sub platinum.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
March 08 2012 22:19 GMT
#46
Simply, the differences are:
- 25-50 hours / week
- $$$
- swag

That's about it, I think.
[TLMS] REBOOT
stuzH
Profile Joined September 2011
United States56 Posts
July 29 2012 21:11 GMT
#47
rawr sauce mcquibbles! the gap is very hard to bridge between low-mid masters all the way up to High masters or gm.

User was warned for this post
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
Continental Nation League S1
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 278
ProTech121
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11103
Dewaltoss 175
Bale 40
Terrorterran 18
Noble 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm235
League of Legends
JimRising 833
Counter-Strike
taco 360
Other Games
summit1g13937
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1324
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream41
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 10
• Letter149
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota247
League of Legends
• Lourlo898
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
6h
Rush vs Light
WardiTV Weekly
7h
Monday Night Weeklies
12h
Replay Cast
19h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 6h
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
1d 7h
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
1d 20h
The PondCast
3 days
INu's Battles
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL: Ladder Tournament
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Patches Events
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.