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edit: woops in my title i meant pro-gamers and masters.. is there anyway to change it?
Earlier this week I was playing on my friends bronze account just for fun while I was waiting for him to finish schoolwork and it occurred to me that if you have any idea on how to play the game at all it is near impossible to lose, especially if you go with the standard "safe" expand builds.
Combining this with the GomTV variety show where masters and diamond players just get destroyed by handicapped pros, it made me wonder, is the level of understanding and/or mechanics of the pro-gamers so high that the average masters player has a near 0% chance of winning?
Is the gap from masters to bronze as big as pro-gamer to masters?
of course the really high masters get matched with pro-gamers all the time so i'm going to say masters rank 50-100, because when i was low masters, I felt like I was so terrible that I could never touch a pro.
What do you guys think?
 
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I'd say its like comparing a Gohan super saiyan 2 vs a goku super saiyan 3. No what im saying?
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Yeah, that stood out to me big time when MKP beat the Master's zerg player with mittens on... wow. Or when he held that 4 gate with only his mouse hand against a diamond player.... it opened my eyes to just how much higher of a thought process the pros have compared to everyone else, they just understand the game so much better that it's ridiculous. It could very well be the difference from a bronze to a masters.
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Masters to Progamer if you want to account High Masters is not as big, no.
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A master player will have a higher chance of beating a pro than the bronze has of beating a master since the master player can at least execute certain allins reasonably ok. It's hard to compare the differences otherwise, but yes, there's an enormous difference between masters players and pros.
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There is a massive difference between masters and masters, when I'm playing well I dont drop games often to anyone about 100 points below me on the ladder ^^
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GM and masters doesn't have a gap at all at high masters, however, low masters and high masters can have an enormous gap (mmr wise).
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As a high master myself who plays regularly against Grandmaster players I have to say, the difference is often just 1 or 2 mistakes. Very often I am playing well, but screw up once in either my army control or macro, and get punished immediately. That's the difference between high master/gm in my experience. I can play like a boss all game long, completely even game, and then I siege my tanks too late or miss a macro cycle and i'm done for.
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Well not all Grandmaster players are progamers (especially outside of Korea server). The difference between non-progamer GM and progamers is pretty huge.
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The difference within the masters division itself is huge.... xD Even bigger vs top pros and top ladder heroes.
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I would say the gap between low master and high master is much wider than high master to grandmaster. The gap between bronze and masters, imo, is not as wide as one would believe. I feel that until you get to masters, it's all about mastering the fundamentals. The moment you start getting the hang of the fundamentals(after some good ol' hard work) you will be skyrocketing.
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Great and interesting post. I imgaine its the same as Low Bronze and High Silver. One just has that much better decision making and fundamentals imo.
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its very very hard if not impossible to bridge the gap from masters to pro gamers.
There is a certain level of natural ability required, and some people just dont have it. Id bet that almost anyone could make it in high masters, maybe even GM with the way the shitty system is atm if they just played full time and had some help like coaching or just help off a friend or whatever.
But not everyone could go to an MLG or enter GSL and got toe to toe with the really good pro gamers not matter how much training or time they put into it
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On March 07 2012 05:16 ThatGuy89 wrote:
its very very hard if not impossible to bridge the gap from masters to pro gamers.
There is a certain level of natural ability required, and some people just dont have it. Id bet that almost anyone could make it in high masters, maybe even GM with the way the shitty system is atm if they just played full time and had some help like coaching or just help off a friend or whatever.
But not everyone could go to an MLG or enter GSL and got toe to toe with the really good pro gamers not matter how much training or time they put into it
I have to slightly agree here. you can become a pro on hard work alone though without natural ability, although the best of the best are all natural talent and it all comes easy to them. you can force yourself to learn and be very good and become a pro but the very best will always be guided by natural talent and luck. as it is in any area in life. hard work can only get you so far but mostly people are born with it.
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MKP beat a master on NA. Pretty sure a Korean Master would have a better skill level.
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The difference between high masters and gm is playing time.
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Master league, at least on NA, is nothing. I consider myself a casual gamer, and devote less than 15 hours a week (usually less) to actually playing starcraft. I watch maybe 10 hours of Starcraft a week (maybe a little more, depending). I've been in the top league in NA (diamond, then master), since mid beta. This isn't to brag, but simply to emphasize that being a master league player is nothing in this game (again, at least on NA). There seems to be this misconception floating around that master league players are actually good. They aren't. Most are casual players. You see a few that are mass gamers but somehow didn't make it into GM (maybe its the 200 player limit) that have a ridiculous number of games played (like 300+ this season). I can't really explain what they are. I guess they just suck and need a lot more time. The majority are just casual players that have probably played a lot of Blizzard RTSs, so picking this one up wasn't hard (that is the case for me at least).
So the gap between a master league player and pro is massive. Pros are good. Pros have amazingly solid mechanics (even mid tier pros) compared to the average master league player. Their builds are executed better. They have way better timing and scouting.
Basically what I see are a lot of players that can do 1 single thing on a pro level sometimes. I'd put myself in this category as well. Maybe they have a particular build they are good at, and sometimes they really nail it. Maybe they have good stalker micro, and sometimes they do especially well with it in a game. It is about consistency as well.
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i think the gap between bronze and masters is about the same as masters to pro. only difference in those gaps is that while a bronze would never beat a masters in a million games a masters could def take games off a pro just because of how powerful cheese is in sc2. you can execute and mask a perfect double-reactor helion all-in at like platinum level and pros lose games to that all the time. same goes for other cheeses.
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On March 07 2012 04:49 Rygasm wrote:
I would say the gap between low master and high master is much wider than high master to grandmaster. The gap between bronze and masters, imo, is not as wide as one would believe. I feel that until you get to masters, it's all about mastering the fundamentals. The moment you start getting the hang of the fundamentals(after some good ol' hard work) you will be skyrocketing.
This
I play low-middish masters players and then I just hit that wall where I suddenly can't even compete even slightly. That's when I know I've hit the difference between lows and highs in master league. It's a really noticeable difference
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The difference between masters and a top pro player, I'd say is much greater than that between bronze and masters.
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EPT
