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Our Perspective
I want to start off by stating my purpose of this blog. I am a bronze league player, but not a "bronzie" as we have so lovingly become known as. I bounce around the Top 8 of my division, am currently ranked 1 in 2v2, Top 8 in 3v3, and played my mandatory 5 games in 4v4. Some of these posts will be about my laddering experiences in the Bronze League, some strategy tips for my fellow bronze leaguers, or just some random stuff.
I'll start off with explaining a little about me. I am a casual player, and by that I mean that I play this game to have fun, and I DO find the game more fun when I win, and not instant quit out wins or successful worker rush defends. I do research build orders, watch my replays, and try to improve on my overall play. As so many people have stated in the strategy section, macro is my main focus. I try to have more stuff than the other guy, but that isn't enough all the time.
Now, moving on to what this post is actually about. I recently had the pleasure of reading a blog by a certain member, who seemed to enjoy tormenting clueless bronze players with worker rushes and PF rushes, with an obviously sinister intent. He is obviously a higher level player, and cannot or will not look at the game from our perspective. He attempts to see the game through our eyes, but he can't, because he is obviously not a bronze level player. Also, his opinion on the intelligence level of the average bronze player is somewhat less than stellar.
To my first topic: Trolls (Smurfs)
Please feel free to answer this next question.
I ask, Why? Why do you feel the need to come down to our league, whether by setting up an alternate account, or purposefully tanking your account? Is it to satisfy some insecurity, a self-esteem deficiency, or are you generally a sh*thead? By picking on the little guy? I relate it to schoolyard bullying (or in this case, cyber bullying). I am currently studying to become a teacher, so I do know something about bullying (both from an educational standpoint and as a victim, but back then it was called 'teasing'). The big platinum level player creates an alternate account and intentionally loses all 5 placements to get placed into bronze, then worker rushes some kid who doesn't really have an idea of what he is doing, and then (this is what boggles my mind) asks loaded questions to make the kid rage and tell him to STFU. Then the platinum player condescends the bronzie both in/after game and publicly on TL forums (*see the linked thread, none of the opponents named are changed in any way). I wish that I was good enough to challenge these people to 1v1 and then crush them, for that is the only way I can exact any sort of vengeance, as threats are worthless over the internet. It would be a virtual way of saying, "Hey! Why don't you pick on someone your own size?"
Bronze Leaguers vs. "Perma-bronzies"
I'd like to make a clear distinction between these two monikers. Bronze leaguers can be further divided into two section: Noobs and The Casual Gamer. Noobs are self-explanatory. They have just started the game, they don't know the difference between a barracks and a refinery, what supply is, or that all you have to do to defend worker rush is Attack-Move. The Casual Gamers are people like me. We play the game to have fun, trying to get better but aren't really able to due to different reasons. For me, that reason is a lack of time. I can only play 1-2 games a day, if I am able to at all. I do believe that if I had hours upon hours to pour into the game I would be at least a gold level player.
Perma-bronzies are a different breed. Some are noobs who refuse to look up basic build orders, others are not so noobs who refuse to look up basic build orders. Some are people with mental or physical disabilities/deficiencies and are literally unable to get better. Hey fictitious plat level player, would you pick on a kid in a wheelchair? Think twice bro.
The Delusional Trolls
You know these people. These are the people who make you roll your eyes, literally.
The guy who talks trash all game then loses to muta/cloak banshee/DT harass. The team that cannon rushes then complains about how your team is still alive, just because you didn't suicide into the cannons and chilled, denied new cannons on the high ground, built colossus + range, and siege tanks. Don't BM me for denying your cheese. I really feel that this needs no further discussion.
Finally: The Cheese and Balance (For my fellow Bronze Leaguers)
I would like to state for the record that I don't believe there are any true "cheeses" in the sense that it's an instant win, and that it makes for a lower class of game. Cheesing, in it's loosely defined self, is an integral part of the game, and all strategies are acceptable. If they were unacceptable, Blizzard would whip out a patch and remove it somehow. That said, some builds are cheesier than others, and will from here on be referred to as cheese builds.
Builds or Strategies I Consider Cheese
Worker Rush
Cannon Rush
6 Pool (in certain occasions)
Now, in a BoX situation, I can see the valid use of any one of these strategies. They change the tempo of the game and keep the opponent on his toes, or back on his heels, or flat on his ass. But I gotta say, 3 TvZ games in a row where the opponents 6 Pool is pretty irritating. And I know they didn't get together and say "I'll 6 Pool him, then you do it, and then you do it, too." Or even 2 games with worker rush in a row...
The point I'm trying to make with this? You don't NEED to cheese to win in the Bronze, guys! Now, I have been know to 3 Rax bio-ball a Toss player at the 7:30 mark, or 2 Rax all-in with SCV meatshield against a fellow T, but I can tell you I've lost as many games as I've won with those tactics.
As for balance, Blizzard has full-time staff dedicated to balance issues. No race is more powerful than the other. Some are easier to handle in the various timings of the game (early, mid, or late). Some races require more micro, others more macro. Basically this game boils down to having the right units to kill your opponents units. Scout, scout, and scout some more and build counters to whatever you see. Colossus? Build Vikings. High Templar? Ghosts (use the EMP ability). To summarize, the races are balanced, as you can see whenever you watch progamers.
That does it for now, I have to go do real-life things. Take it easy, and keep fighting the good fight, brethren!
EDIT: Ok, so obviously I took an angle that not everyone agrees with. This came out more as a rant instead of an informative or conversational post. I shouldn't have even mentioned, let alone linked Gheed's blog. His thing is his thing. My opinions are my opinions. Your opinions are your opinions.
My intent was to give my view of SCII, from the perspective of a bronze level player.
And I don't know your levels, but I'm willing to guess that not a lot of bronze players post on here.
*Link has been removed.
  
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I see what you mean most is for good fun and even one a saw is teaching them but rubbing it in the faces is bad. Taking this seriously is dumb though everyone is new and part of getting better is going through the hard times and using that "your just a noob" or "Only masters can talk about balance (though i used to talk about it anyways  " to motivate you to get better thats what i did use that motivation to improve in something i love.
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I'm pretty sure Gheed dropped to Bronze for the portrait and stayed to figure out how the hell some perma-bronzies, as you put it, managed to outright refuse to learn. Also, he was wondering how doing so many worker rushes to so many bronzies did not result in the bronzies learning how to beat said worker rush.
Anyways, I don't take offense at his blogs at all, despite being around low silver/high bronze. Heck, by all means what he's doing should be free wins. Even I could probably beat him with my 9 or so apm.
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Everyone is free to enjoy the game as he wants to. If they have fun the way they play the game, then let it be.
That answers the "smurf" section, the "you don't NEED to cheese to win in Bronze" section, and pretty much the whole blog.
edit : oh shit my 4000th post T_T
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On February 28 2012 12:40 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
I'm pretty sure Gheed dropped to Bronze for the portrait and stayed to figure out how the hell some perma-bronzies, as you put it, managed to outright refuse to learn. Also, he was wondering how doing so many worker rushes to so many bronzies did not result in the bronzies learning how to beat said worker rush.
Anyways, I don't take offense at his blogs at all, despite being around low silver/high bronze. Heck, by all means what he's doing should be free wins. Even I could probably beat him with my 9 or so apm.
I'm not necessarily pointing out Gheed. His was just the most recent of blogs that I have read on this subject. To be honest, it was some of the comments that inspired me to defend my fellow Bronze buddies in the public arena of this here website. Just between you and me, I actually think that I am in one of those pictures (towards the bottom, the chat with Maximus, back when I first started playing. I now know that Terrans don't start with more workers derpity derp ) although I went through my game history and never played Gheed, but he could've been using a friends account or something along those lines.
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I dislike Gheed's blog immensely for the reasont that you stated. I'm in Masters but I feel that every single player has a right to play against someone their skill level. I don't really care what some guy decides to do in his spare time and I don't respect him and his actions at all.
However, the biggest gripe I have on his blog is that it was spotlighted in TL. I even called out the questionable spotlight: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281858
Although it was initially successful in un-spotlighting it, this was overruled by a high up TL Admin. Thus, my only means to call out the blog was to give it 1/5. To TL's credit, his subsequent blog (after the one I called out) was not spotlighted. My opinion is that TL shouldn't give this guy attention for his actions. Interestingly, alot of posts in the blog are praising him, which I find quite amusing - alot of people seem to like this kind of trollish behaviour.
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On February 28 2012 12:44 endy wrote:
Everyone is free to enjoy the game as he wants to. If they have fun the way they play the game, then let it be.
That answers the "smurf" section, the "you don't NEED to cheese to win in Bronze" section, and pretty much the whole blog.
edit : oh shit my 4000th post T_T
Hrmph. True, true. 4,000? That's a lot.
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On February 28 2012 13:34 Azzur wrote:
I'm in Masters but I feel that every single player has a right to play against someone their skill level. .
That is exactly how I feel. And I can't speak for every bronze player, only me and my friends, but that's one of our biggest complaints.
This is unrelated, and not targeting smurfs but Blizzard's matchmaking, but we definitely feel that way in 2v2. We are 1 in bronze, and we play against top 8 silver/mid gold teams all the time. Argh, random venting of frustration.
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Whats with the hate with Gheed?
I find his blog posts hilarious. Its not like he murdered a Grand Master and sold the account to the highest bidder.
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On February 28 2012 13:48 Zombo Joe wrote:
Whats with the hate with Gheed?
I find his blog posts hilarious. Its not like he murdered a Grand Master and sold the account to the highest bidder.
Check above response. I'm not singling out Gheed, just the mentality that some higher level players have.
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Well written! Even though I find some of Gheed's work funny I agree with you. I believe that everyone should play with someone of their skill level, which Blizzard's MMR does pretty well most of the time. I really appluad people who try to get out of bronze league because it is very hard and filled with weird things, but so is silver and prob gold+ (ie mass raven or mass bc's ya know? Also in silver I was 6 pooled 4 times in a row however a simple scout gives you a free win, in which in cases like that is still a deserved win. scouting is important.) Anyways, The best way I learned to deal with the trolls, the farmers and whatnot is to ignore them. I know this sounds like the parent telling the kid to ignore the bully but it really isnt. Look at it this way, even though there are a lot of bullies in Bronze.. Bronze is still by far the largest league. So if you just try your best and try to learn something (anything!) from it then youve gained something out of it and you can go onto your next match which will prob be a legit match. I personally think most cheesers in bronze league (especially if they don't have some Tassadar icon or some crap) are just "nooby" players that don't know any better. All cheese builds are incredibly simple, ie 6pool/3 sets of lings -> GO or 8 pylon/9forge/pylon cannon cannon cannon cannon. Those builds even the noobiest of noobs can memorize and the best thing is... it wins. So they feel good about themselves. Now these people tend to go into 2 different catagories. They are either inspired and want to learn how to get better and macro and get into other leagues. Or they just like to cheese all day every day and nothing else. It gets boring. There isn't much else to it in my opinion. Bronze if tough because its filled with so many different types of players but its only a stepping stone that I, for one, learned a lot of info from. Especially how to deal with cheese, trolls, and farmers. I talk about it a bit in a blog I wrote here (http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=312986) and gives some advice on how to get out of bronze and make the best of it.
Good luck and keep up the fight! :D
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That everyone should have the right to play against someone their skill level?
Most of the time this is the case, but you can't make a perfect system. Getting raped by people better than you is also an integral part of gaming that has been around since the first Player vs Player game. Its not something that can be removed. It happens to everyone, even the best players in the world.
And its not necessarily a bad thing either, if I never got beaten by someone significantly better than me then my ego enlarged too much.
Imo this seems like a gross overreaction, this is all for fun and games. Its not like he's psychologically harming all the bronzies he kills with scv rushes and mass PF. :p
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On February 28 2012 14:02 Zombo Joe wrote:
Its not like he's psychologically harming all the bronzies he kills with scv rushes and mass PF. :p
One could make the argument that by doing this, he is driving new players away from the game. Then another could make the argument that if they are so easily deterred, we don't want them in our community. I think that we want as many players in our community as we can get, don't you? Who knows, maybe one of those players was the next DRG? It's highly, highly unlikely, but you never know.
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I am a casual player, and by that I mean that I play this game to have fun
Everybody plays this game to have fun except the few pros who also get paid; and even they must consider StarCraft fun. Meaningless statement. But from my experience when someone say they play for fun what it really means they suck at game and are happy about it. This may or may not apply to you too. In any case don't pretend you are having more fun just because you are stuck in bronze, a league nobody stays in (provided that they want to leave it).
P.S. I too currently have fun in Bronze, but I always try and leave the game before the other guy does. Don't want to make them more difficult to leave Bronze just because I am having fun. I talk politely in game and if they are polite too I give some advices on what to improve; if they BM I just ignore. Goes without saying I never BM anybody anywhere.
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On February 28 2012 14:36 Sejanus wrote:Everybody plays this game to have fun except the few pros who also get paid; and even they must consider StarCraft fun. Meaningless statement. But from my experience when someone says he plays for fun it usually means he sucks at game and is happy about it.
Good half quote. The other half of that quote goes like this: ". I am a casual player, and by that I mean that I play this game to have fun, and I DO find the game more fun when I win, and not instant quit out wins or successful worker rush defends. I do research build orders, watch my replays, and try to improve on my overall play."
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I'm not MC 4gating bronze scrubs and then calling them names.
I'm doing the equivalent of playing ball with a dog, pretending to throw the ball, and laughing when he repeatedly tries to find the imaginary ball. Except, instead of a cute dog it's a human being who swears at me when they fail to find the ball for the 3rd time.
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So basically you are saying you are having more fun when you play with your additional self imposed rules that are not in real game. And that may be the reason why you are still in bronze. Well, some Platinum+ players too find it fun to play with artificial self imposed rules, like building no unit but Phoenix. Sadly this can be done only in leagues few levels below their current one. Like, Bronze. Thats why they are in Bronze now.
All is fine
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On February 28 2012 14:49 Sejanus wrote:So basically you are saying you are having more fun when you play with your additional self imposed rules that are not in real game. And that may be the reason why you are still in bronze. Well, some Platinum+ players too find it fun to play with artificial self imposed rules, like building no unit but Phoenix. Sadly this can be done only in leagues few levels below their current one. Like, Bronze. Thats why they are in Bronze now. All is fine
Yes that is what I'm saying! Maybe it is this mental barrier, the one where I like the game to be played by "normal" standards, that is holding me back. But so be it, I'm not going to cheese my way to the Golds. I still dislike that some players come down and torment lower level players. And Gheed, not pointing you out mate. (I'm not British or Australian but it still felt appropriate to say mate) I read your blog and while I disagree with the way you went about trying to figure out why some bronze players do what they do, I kind of can see why you "Delved Deeper." If you really want to know why some players do stupid things from my perspective, I'll upload a replay of mine and you can ask me why I did this, what were you thinking there and so on. I'll admit I do stupid things. For example, I was watching a replay of mine against a Protoss, and I noticed I built a starport and a tech lab...then commenced to produce vikings one at a time. wtf was I thinking? Maybe I just hit the wrong key, X instead of C. Who knows?
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On February 28 2012 13:48 MaximusT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 13:34 Azzur wrote:
I'm in Masters but I feel that every single player has a right to play against someone their skill level. . That is exactly how I feel. And I can't speak for every bronze player, only me and my friends, but that's one of our biggest complaints. This is unrelated, and not targeting smurfs but Blizzard's matchmaking, but we definitely feel that way in 2v2. We are 1 in bronze, and we play against top 8 silver/mid gold teams all the time. Argh, random venting of frustration.
Do you want to play an opponent who plays seriously and at your level?
I'm honestly curious, because Gheed sets handicaps on himself, like that one game where he just turtled the entire time, so I don't think that he plays above your level, just at your level but seriously retarded.
He's basically using his higher level mechanics to perform the kind of strategy you would see from someone with a marker sniffing issue.
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Well thats what Gheed does, he plays badly intentionally and still beats Bronzies when he even lets them know how to beat him.
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EPT
