|
On February 16 2012 15:22 Belisarius wrote:
blizzard is more likely to follow through with that than permit a minus modifier.
What's with this this permitting "minus modifier"? Why do some people think this is a sacrilege? Is it simply because it has yet to be done in SC2, despite the engine being quite capable of doing so?
Guess what matters people: fun and balance. If a minus modifier for massive units make Snipe better than Blizzard's original plan for 25+25 Psionic, then it will be done. There's nothing holy in SC2, they will do what makes the game better in their opinions. It's simply a matter of figuring out what would be best role for the Ghost, and consequently there's nothing wrong with a minus modifier if it gets the job done.
And I'm all for 45-20 Massive +5 Psionic instead as well (I prefer it to QXC's solution, as there is no need to make snipe do more damage to non-Psionic units at the moment). As long as it makes the game more balanced and keeps the Ghost reasonable, then having two damage modifiers will be what it takes (and is not unprecedented as this exists in the Voidray).
Blizzard will do what must be done.
|
I extremely agree with this.. the snipe nerf is just too much.. if they want it to nerf it so bad then just remove the snipe ability and bring back le lockdown
|
United Kingdom2599 Posts
QXC your logic is sound as always, wonder if Blizz actually asked many players if they had a proposed solution to the T3 Zerg snipe problem before deciding to ruin snipe vs anything that doesn't cast?
The moment I saw the proposed nerf I thought "Thats way too much, way to ruin any chance of me ever winning a late game TvP again" but I've heard at least 3 different pro's present ideas that are a way better solution and don't completely ruin the ghost in every other match-up.... QXC's being the most solid imo
|
QXC raises some excellent points in this post. The criticisms are well articulated and the alternative change is one that I think we can all agree on. I have at least a small degree of faith that Blizzard will listen to the community--and more importantly the pros--on this one and resolve the issue correctly.
|
I for one agree with blizzard's choice (zerg player obviously). This Progamers play this game for a living. We practice everyday perfecting and refining strategies - strategies which rely on the current balance. Every unnecessary change makes it harder for us to perfect the strategies we practice so frequently. is available for all players, so all of them have to adapt constantly not just him, and it's part of the game, just like cheese and whatever else.
|
Personally I think the most elegant solution is to make it not castable on massive; blizzard is more likely to follow through with that than permit a minus modifier.
I also think this is problematic, as zerg can tech switch much faster than terran. If he goes broods, terran mass vikings, and then just remax on ultras, terran wont be able to switch to marauders fast enough, and just has a lot of useless vikings.
I think QXC's idea is cool!
|
So after the patch it takes 3 ghost snipes to kill a marine upgraded with combat shields . now there are two possible explanations:
1. The ghost is retarded.
2. The sniper rifle is broken.
|
On February 16 2012 19:05 Operations wrote:
So after the patch it takes 3 ghost snipes to kill a marine upgraded with combat shields . now there are two possible explanations:
1. The ghost is retarded.
2. The sniper rifle is broken.
Or
3. You're trying to argue logic about a futuristic fantasy world using real world experience.
|
Agree with this, and why the hell did blizzard not think of this?
|
I support QXC's solution. Blizzards way of doing it is just stupid!
|
I totally agree with this and I'm Zerg.
Sniping was original and difficult to do vs other units that T3 Zerg.
At least if u don't want "minus" damage, do it 25 normal + 25 against light !
(Marine, Reaper, Zealot, HT, DT, Baneling, Hydralisk, Mutalisk, Infestor, Workers, Ghost, Queens)
|
(Marine, Reaper, Zealot, HT, DT, Baneling, Hydralisk, Mutalisk, Infestor, Workers, Ghost, Queens) Infestors, ghosts and queens are not Light, but all three are psionic. They didn't want to change to +light because it would nerf Snipe against infestors.
I don't have any opinion on the plus or minus issue, but I can tell for a fact that it is possible to put a "minus 20" or a "minus 50%" in the game right now without changing anything. That's how the SC1mod work.
|
On February 15 2012 03:20 ELA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:18 Moochlol wrote:
QXC genius game balance, I commend you sir. Mind posting this (Minus the pictures) on the blizzard forums, as this is to brilliant to just be in a TL blog. If this can get some backing on the boards maybe a dev will see it. And that would be better for everyone involved, as a master league Zerg I strongly back this game logic. I bet there is a bigger chance of a dev seeing it, if it's posted here than if its on the B.net forums.
Considering that Blizzard participates more or less actively (they've been known to cite articles, and they probably browse communities too, whether as a part of their job or as a hobby), and that the Blizzard forums are a known cause of brain damage, I'd say you're right.
|
How about a base damage of 25 + 15 to light and + 25 to psionic? Banelings, marines, hydras, mutalisks, queens and zealots would still be valid targets. It still rewards good micro without promoting mass ghost or ghost as an answer to anything bio.
|
I think the best fix is to make snipe cost 75 energy, deal 50 damage, and introduce the HotS cloak energy mechanic change early.
|
I think the change you propose is unreasonable.
Ghosts have some pretty nice features already (Snipe, Nuke and Cloak). I think the change will balance the late ZvT because as a Z, you really fear to build broodlords. They are so damn slow that you can lose all of them just because a few ghosts cross their paths. And Broodlords are considerably more expensive than ghosts.
But I already thought that this kind of post would come. I've been part of a lot of game communities and it's the same with each and every one of them: BUAAAA CHANGE IS BAD!
You yourself said that you as pros have to train a lot and do you strategies on the current system. What will you do when HotS comes out? Quit playing because there is no Carrier anymore and all you strategies revolve around Carriers? Or just not use the new units because they dont fit in your gameplan? No! You will adapt to the new situation. And this is exactly what will happen now and everytime something gets changed. You adapt.
Some of you that are longer in esports may remember the change in Counter-Strike when the AWP lost its crosshair. People went mad about it and said "this will break the game forever"... well.. seems like it didnt...
|
Ghosts have some pretty nice features already (Snipe, Nuke and Cloak). I think the change will balance the late ZvT because as a Z, you really fear to build broodlords.
you are kidding me, right?
...NesTea cowers in fear when MAKING HIS OWN BROODLORDS... lolol
|
nuke damage low
snipe damage low
emp raid low
nice blizzard, congratulations for fuck the ghost
|
I opened this thread thinking "Here comes the QQ"
But reading it makes a ton of sense. All that's needed is a reduced damage vs massive units and the problem is fixed. 100% behind qxc's idea on this
|
On February 16 2012 23:12 Bocki wrote:
I think the change you propose is unreasonable.
Ghosts have some pretty nice features already (Snipe, Nuke and Cloak). I think the change will balance the late ZvT because as a Z, you really fear to build broodlords. They are so damn slow that you can lose all of them just because a few ghosts cross their paths. And Broodlords are considerably more expensive than ghosts.
But I already thought that this kind of post would come. I've been part of a lot of game communities and it's the same with each and every one of them: BUAAAA CHANGE IS BAD!
You yourself said that you as pros have to train a lot and do you strategies on the current system. What will you do when HotS comes out? Quit playing because there is no Carrier anymore and all you strategies revolve around Carriers? Or just not use the new units because they dont fit in your gameplan? No! You will adapt to the new situation. And this is exactly what will happen now and everytime something gets changed. You adapt.
Some of you that are longer in esports may remember the change in Counter-Strike when the AWP lost its crosshair. People went mad about it and said "this will break the game forever"... well.. seems like it didnt...
Wow, there is really not a single argument in your post that states why qxcs idea is not reasonable. Well played.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
