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The Ghost Nerf is Being Done Wrong - Page 18

Blogs > qxc
Post a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 36 Next All
mrlie3
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada350 Posts
February 15 2012 04:11 GMT
#341
How about 30+20 to light? This would keep the SC2 damage modifier format intact and still keeps the same patch effect. (30 is needed for 1 shot blings which is not light)
Crimson @ Clan CORE | ESFI World Translator
UglyBastard
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany53 Posts
February 15 2012 04:28 GMT
#342
+1

Way better solution than Blizzard's. Which was to be expected...
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 04:29:31
February 15 2012 04:28 GMT
#343
On February 15 2012 13:11 mrlie3 wrote:
How about 30+20 to light? This would keep the SC2 damage modifier format intact and still keeps the same patch effect. (30 is needed for 1 shot blings which is not light)


Infestors are armored.
Carras
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina860 Posts
February 15 2012 04:31 GMT
#344
i agree, i think a lot of people think the same.. yet to be consistent blizzard has to do it this way, its just the way they designed the game , they use bonus damage, they dont have damage reduction
DTK920
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada46 Posts
February 15 2012 04:36 GMT
#345
OK everyone saying the ghost is good because it has a base attack while other casters don't is comparing it to the WRONG unit. Ghost is a tier 1.5 caster which is more comparable to sentries and queens. if you want to talk about terran caster, look at the nearly useless 2 range cast raven/ Essentially an entire flock can be negated with a single fungal as it is right now.
rS.eZrA
Profile Joined April 2011
United States39 Posts
February 15 2012 04:41 GMT
#346
What you need to understand is what the unit is designed for.

I'm not making Zerglings to counter air right?

I'm not making Infestors to counter let's say Ghosts right?

Your entire complaint is completely based around that Ghosts no longer counter EVERYTHING which is not what they were disigned for in the first place. They are a utiliy unit, you already have the marine.

Vikings counter broodlords, Ghost counter corrupter and Infestor. You can;t have double hard counters.

Marauders counter ultralisks, not marauder ghost counter ultralisk. Terrran is the only race that had a unit that could literally counter EVERY unit that the Zerg had effectively.

This change is fine, Sbipe/EMP infestors, HT, etc, that's what ghosts do, not snipe everything.
"Where I Walk, You Will Die"
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
February 15 2012 04:43 GMT
#347
On February 15 2012 13:41 rS.eZrA wrote:
What you need to understand is what the unit is designed for.

I'm not making Zerglings to counter air right?

I'm not making Infestors to counter let's say Ghosts right?

Your entire complaint is completely based around that Ghosts no longer counter EVERYTHING which is not what they were disigned for in the first place. They are a utiliy unit, you already have the marine.

Vikings counter broodlords, Ghost counter corrupter and Infestor. You can;t have double hard counters.

Marauders counter ultralisks, not marauder ghost counter ultralisk. Terrran is the only race that had a unit that could literally counter EVERY unit that the Zerg had effectively.

This change is fine, Sbipe/EMP infestors, HT, etc, that's what ghosts do, not snipe everything.


What a terrible game this would be if every unit had a direct counter. Snipe can be a soft counter to zealots. Or you could literally snipe banelings with snipe.
Devilldog
Profile Joined October 2010
United States69 Posts
February 15 2012 04:46 GMT
#348
I almost entirely agree with QxC, however i feel like snipe should be 45, +5 vs Psionic, -20 vs Massive. I feel like buffing snipe to 50 damage could (depends on some unit's HP) could make it OP vs those units. So in other words snipe still does 50 dmg vs psionic, 25 vs massive, and is not buffed vs anything else.
RevTiberius
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada353 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 04:51:25
February 15 2012 04:50 GMT
#349
It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out on lower levels. I'm a mid-diamond level terran, and I simply don't have the necessary micro/macro skills to stand a chance in late game vs. toss and zerg.

So my point is this: this patch is bad enough for pros who can micro late game terran armies well. It is even worse for players below pro level because we struggle with the complexities of large armies anyway. Handling large protoss and zerg armies is much easier than handling a large terran army.

And because of all this I find it very unlikely that this patch will go through as suggested. They'll either change it before it comes into effect, or adjust it soon after.
Teaching Chess to a Starcraft 2 Grandmaster: http://revtiberius.blogspot.ca
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
February 15 2012 04:55 GMT
#350
On February 15 2012 13:43 Gheed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 13:41 rS.eZrA wrote:
What you need to understand is what the unit is designed for.

I'm not making Zerglings to counter air right?

I'm not making Infestors to counter let's say Ghosts right?

Your entire complaint is completely based around that Ghosts no longer counter EVERYTHING which is not what they were disigned for in the first place. They are a utiliy unit, you already have the marine.

Vikings counter broodlords, Ghost counter corrupter and Infestor. You can;t have double hard counters.

Marauders counter ultralisks, not marauder ghost counter ultralisk. Terrran is the only race that had a unit that could literally counter EVERY unit that the Zerg had effectively.

This change is fine, Sbipe/EMP infestors, HT, etc, that's what ghosts do, not snipe everything.


What a terrible game this would be if every unit had a direct counter. Snipe can be a soft counter to zealots. Or you could literally snipe banelings with snipe.


But Gheed, these aren't workers! How can you know
Less money for casters, more money for players.
TranceKuja
Profile Joined May 2011
United States154 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 05:10:31
February 15 2012 04:55 GMT
#351
On February 15 2012 12:01 MandoRelease wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 11:47 TranceKuja wrote:
On February 15 2012 03:26 Al Bundy wrote:
Yeah yeah, we know, when things stop being completely OVERPOWERED, suddenly they become useless. If I remember correcltly, when BFH were nerfed, people were crying about their uselessness.

Can't you find a way to make use of the 1.4.3 ghost? What's wrong with specialized units? BW is full of them and it doesn't seem to stop players from using them.

Last I checked nobody gets the BF upgrade anymore. It's one thing to kill an upgrade it's another to kill a unit.


Oh wow, check again. That way you'd make a more educated comment.

In the last 100 or so TvZ pro replays I've seen one player has actually gotten the BF upgrade. They still make plenty of hellions though.

Edit: I've seen the infestor NP upgrade 4 or 5 times.
Winning
slytown
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Korea (South)1411 Posts
February 15 2012 04:56 GMT
#352
Thank you qxc, our spokesperson.
The best Flash meme ever: http://imgur.com/zquoK
CarbonTwelve
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia525 Posts
February 15 2012 05:05 GMT
#353
On February 15 2012 13:43 Gheed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 13:41 rS.eZrA wrote:
What you need to understand is what the unit is designed for.

I'm not making Zerglings to counter air right?

I'm not making Infestors to counter let's say Ghosts right?

Your entire complaint is completely based around that Ghosts no longer counter EVERYTHING which is not what they were disigned for in the first place. They are a utiliy unit, you already have the marine.

Vikings counter broodlords, Ghost counter corrupter and Infestor. You can;t have double hard counters.

Marauders counter ultralisks, not marauder ghost counter ultralisk. Terrran is the only race that had a unit that could literally counter EVERY unit that the Zerg had effectively.

This change is fine, Sbipe/EMP infestors, HT, etc, that's what ghosts do, not snipe everything.


What a terrible game this would be if every unit had a direct counter. Snipe can be a soft counter to zealots. Or you could literally snipe banelings with snipe.


What a terrible game this would be if every race had a universally useful unit they could fall back on...
anApple
Profile Joined November 2011
Singapore275 Posts
February 15 2012 05:08 GMT
#354
30 base damage, +20 to light, +20 psionic would be decent.
huehuehue
Flamingo777
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1190 Posts
February 15 2012 05:09 GMT
#355
Strong argument qxc, thank you for both the explanation of the nerf's pros and cons, and I totally agree!
lastshadow
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1372 Posts
February 15 2012 05:15 GMT
#356
25 to massive
45 to rest.
fixed.
Patience is a small price to pay for perfection.
mrlie3
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada350 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 05:21:00
February 15 2012 05:20 GMT
#357
On February 15 2012 13:28 Gheed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 13:11 mrlie3 wrote:
How about 30+20 to light? This would keep the SC2 damage modifier format intact and still keeps the same patch effect. (30 is needed for 1 shot blings which is not light)


Infestors are armored.


Aw damn you're right. =/


On February 15 2012 14:15 lastshadow wrote:
25 to massive
45 to rest.
fixed.


yea that sounds about right... or 50 to rest =D
Crimson @ Clan CORE | ESFI World Translator
Tingles
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia225 Posts
February 15 2012 05:28 GMT
#358
On February 15 2012 13:50 RevTiberius wrote:
It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out on lower levels. I'm a mid-diamond level terran, and I simply don't have the necessary micro/macro skills to stand a chance in late game vs. toss and zerg.

So my point is this: this patch is bad enough for pros who can micro late game terran armies well. It is even worse for players below pro level because we struggle with the complexities of large armies anyway. Handling large protoss and zerg armies is much easier than handling a large terran army.

And because of all this I find it very unlikely that this patch will go through as suggested. They'll either change it before it comes into effect, or adjust it soon after.


Pretty untrue dude. You struggling at the game with Terran at your level is not an argument to not patch something.
While i agree that maybe not such a drastic change should be made ... maybe just to massive units or something ... it's pretty obvious late game in TvZ ghosts are pretty fucking good.
It's in the same way that i suck at PvZ, and i loose almost all the time, but all i see is zergs complaining that Protoss is impossible to beat. My biased opinion on a matchup or the state of balance is irrelevant because i'm to shit to play the matchup / race well.
The TvT ramifications do suck a fair bit though.
Psilo
Profile Joined December 2011
United States115 Posts
February 15 2012 05:30 GMT
#359
A+. This is the answer. You guys rules.
fighter2_40
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States420 Posts
February 15 2012 05:32 GMT
#360
On February 15 2012 13:31 Carras wrote:
i agree, i think a lot of people think the same.. yet to be consistent blizzard has to do it this way, its just the way they designed the game , they use bonus damage, they dont have damage reduction


This is a good point. I wonder how hard it would be to in cooperate damage reduction to massive instead of bonus damage to massive. Can someone who does map editing tell us if you can make customs like that? If so then it should be an easy fix.

To everybody saying ghosts shouldn't be a universal... they aren't. They are so fucking expensive. Plus snipe isn't even that good vs mass units like bane zealot marine (it can do well but considering the cost of the ghost it's effectiveness is average). it's only good vs targets of small number like hts, broods, ultras (you wont have 30 of these.) For the investment, ghosts should be able to have a sort of swiss army knife type function.
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