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As a terran player, I tend to feel the Protoss end game army is OP. Especially after I lose to what feels like an a-move. However, I'm sure a protoss player would rage just as much if he inadvertently let his ht clump and become impotent thanks to two quick emps, or let his collossi be taken down by a few volleys of viking missiles. Thinking about the matchup with a cool head, what I realize is that ultimately game design is to blame. The way final TvP battles develop and play out is not fun or rewarding.
First of all, I truly think the 200/200 bio vs deathball is very tough micro wise on the terran. He has to spread to compensate for storms or colossi, he needs to stutter step away from charging zealots, he needs to flank with vikings if dealing with colossi, and against a good protoss he needs to somehow flank the ht with ghosts or some other units because a toss who manages their army carefully will not allow the ht to lag behind.
To be fair, the protoss has a lot to micro as well: focus down vikings with stalkers , maneuver colossi away from marauders/ vikings, feedback ghosts, time storms, spread ht to avoid emp. Plus they have to react to multi pronged drops that are probably occurring at this time (but not if they're facing me, I have no multi task ability)
BUT, I think there is a big difference for the two players. Protoss has so much AOE damage that a terran who missteps faces immediate, devastating consequences. That final battle almost always passes in the blink of an eye. It's just not fun. It's a flaw of game design: if protoss does not get those crucial AOE damage dealers, then they will lose to the power of stim. But, when they get the fearsome thermal lances and psionic storms, the tables suddenly and dramatically shift.
Counter argument:
Terran has an advantage in the early game, and to a lesser extent the mid game, so he must capitalize on this advantage and gain a lead. Protoss is designed to dominate the end game.
Well. I feel that if this is indeed the fate of the matchup, then game design is still to blame. Why should game play be so limited? Why can't I, as a terran player, confidently enter the mid game knowing that I won't necessarily lose my entire 130-140 supply army in (what seems like) the blink of an eye.
To those arguing terran should incorporate BCs and Thors, and then emp them, I think they fail to realize the gas limitations the terran faces. First: BCS, Thors, and Ghosts are all gas intensive. Ok, fine, pick 1 or the other. But now we run into the same problem. Off 3 base, we need to produce bio, thor or BC, and ghosts. BUT, we also need at least 3 different upgrade paths, and ideally 4. This is because Bio is the only way to go early/midgame (outside of banshee openings and 1/1/1 all ins and 2 base timings). So we need to upgrade bio, and either ship or vehicle attack/armor. This is essential to facing a likewise upgrading protoss who will be getting 3/3/3 for ALL his units late game.
The cavet is that Thor/BC has not really been used in pro play to my knowledge, so maybe it can work, it's just someone needs to figure it out. Overall Pro terrans seem to be dealing just fine with protoss, for the most part.
EDIT: And I do not want this post to be seen as a Protoss OP post. It's a TvP is not fun for me post.
 
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As a Master Z player, I ALWAYS found that dealing with a 200/200 deathball protoss was easier if you never let them get there. Meaning capitalizing on a larger economy and making smart trades, so that while not going all in, I can harass and chip away at a protoss force while preventing them from moving out with a superior army.
Now that I play terran, I almost always open with a 3-rax conc pressure into expand build. I also go early reaper, to ensure no stargate shenanigans or DT rushes, etc.
But my strategy against lategame toss is always drop when possible, as my terran is probably only diamond level I rarely think far enough ahead to get enough tech labs for sustained ghost production.
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I agree with you, the mu is just silly. It hurts for either terran or protoss to lose in a matter of moments. And it's really unforgiving for both sides. Makes me dislike it more than any mu in either bw or sc2 (I don't play all mu's so I'm sure there are worse. PvP in sc2 comes to mind).
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Terrans are in a bad place atm in both TvZ and TvP...but TvP is completely imbalanced. It's just fucked up.
I actually cannot understand how Protoss players lose at all against Terran.
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now I'm not a highly qualified player, but I thought from bw to sc2 Terran and Protoss switched roles in the MU,
you can't fight 200/200 in TvP straight up because most of the time you will lose if both micro, so I would think
you need to attack with a maxed army before he can while stopping upgrades and stuff with drops.
Plus: some early pressure pretty much always, all the things you can do to prevent him from going to 200 too fast.
I do agree on one part, one slight mistake just kills you too fast sometimes, but that's the case in sc2 in general not just TvP,
looking at fungal growth for example, one hit and he can keep you there forever :/
basically what I want to try always (but often forget) is when I approach his army to scan the back of it or the general area,
so that you always know where those crucial units (HT/infestor) are, as long as you know that you can position your ghosts carefully and micro the rest of the army accordingly
...right?^^
I'm really only gold/plat (season6 incoming yo) soooo... 
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Where does this graph come from? It show that ZvT has the biggest long-games count and that late-game ZvT is Zerg-favoured.
This leads to think that ZvT sees more Zergs winning but I think Terran are still slightly ahead in terms of W/R, arent't they?
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 14 2012 17:58 dGHaiL wrote:
As a Master Z player, I ALWAYS found that dealing with a 200/200 deathball protoss was easier if you never let them get there. Meaning capitalizing on a larger economy and making smart trades, so that while not going all in, I can harass and chip away at a protoss force while preventing them from moving out with a superior army.
Now that I play terran, I almost always open with a 3-rax conc pressure into expand build. I also go early reaper, to ensure no stargate shenanigans or DT rushes, etc.
But my strategy against lategame toss is always drop when possible, as my terran is probably only diamond level I rarely think far enough ahead to get enough tech labs for sustained ghost production. An early reaper is a great idea and is very natrual with a 2 rax or a 3 rax. My concern is that these builds, especially the 3 rax, require you to do some damage. If the protoss effectively uses force fields, you will be driven back. I could be wrong about 2 rax (with your 3 rax, do you get sim?). 1 rax is the consensus best macro build for terran in the matchup, and with it I feel like I cannot do any kind of pressure until 9min or so, when stim is done and medivacs are out. I agree that harass is crucial, just as it is in biomech TvZ, but with Protoss it seems less effective. There's warpins, but more importantly, killing probes hurts economy but does not directly hurt production, whereas killing drones in TvZ does hurt production thanks to the nature of larva.
@Sated:
Interesting graphs which seem to confirm what myself and many others argue. Source?
@Netsky:
If the protoss survives the early game relatively unscathed, his prospects are excellent, and Terran has to micro impeccably and hope the Toss makes a mistake. At least that's how I feel.
@onlinerobbe:
In a sense, yes. The terran deathball in bw was a force that could not be hit head on. But it isn't quite on the level of sc2, where armies evaportate instaneously. In BW protoss had to spread and use arbiters. And the terran could not a-move, he had to carefully position tanks and slowy push, using mines and vultures.
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yeah ofc you could never a-move against a decent opponent, I played terran alot in bw recently and I had problems when I started playing T in sc2, played P before and I always felt that terran can cripple a protoss easily in the beginning
as long as one doesn't get too greedy against sentries, and that way stay ahead...
use the dagger in the back again and again, not the big ass two-handed mace in the face
(nothing new I know, but it's true isn't it)
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EPT
