Something interesting just came up in my head and I'd like to share it.
There are many things in a game (RTS in particular) which are impossible to do, but all natural logic (i.e. common sense) dictates that they SHOULD be possible. They are only impossible due to balance reasons.
One example:
A siege tank can attack position in range which a unit is residing at - even your own unit. However, they cannot "attack ground" (borrowing a term from AoE). Obviously, if siege tanks can attack ground, they will easily be able to repel, for example, DT rushes (by firing at the "blur") - that's why we can't do this in the game. However, this doesn't really make sense; if a siege tank can fire at a unit at any position so long as it is in range, there shouldn't be any reasons why it cannot fire at the said position without anything there.
So here I go. Feel free to add your own if you can think of any. I admit I haven't played a lot of RTS games...
(SC1, SC2): You cannot attack a cloaked unit directly without detection, even though you can see the "blur" and know exactly where the cloaked unit is (see above). It doesn't make sense that you are not allowed to force your unit to attack "nothing". (SC1, SC2, WC3): You cannot repair/heal other units while in a transport. In all three games, you typically need your medic/worker to be close to the target to be healed/repaired. However, they cannot be closer to each other when they are in the same Dropship/Bunker/Zeppelin. (SC1, SC2, WC3): You cannot kill your own unit (EDIT: i.e. using a button like in AoE series). While this is pretty useless in Starcraft, in Warcraft 3 this would have profound consequences that would break the game. However, it doesn't make sense why that is impossible... Look, I understand I may not be able to order my Footman to commit seppuku (they are mortals, after all), but why can't a Death Knight do it so he can avoid giving experience to his enemies while knowing that he will eventually be revived at the nearest Altar? It doesn't make sense at all. (SC1): Scourges cannot attack ground units. I don't see why not, really. If it can charge and collide with an air unit, I don't see why they cannot dive at a ground unit. Obviously, if they could, Zerg would be totally overpowered (make scourges -> snipe CC/nexus), but it's so arbitrary that they can't do that. (SC2): Thors' land attack is the simultaneous firing of two of its cannons at the same time. Truthfully, because of its great damage per attack, it will often do "overkills" against things such as Marines and Zerglings. I don't see why a Thor cannot simultaneously attack two different units at the same time to avoid the "overkill". (WC3): Chimeras have two land-attacks. One magical (against units), one long-range siege (aka Corrosive Breath, against buildings only). But it doesn't make sense why they have to differentiate between buildings and units. Worst of all, without the Corrosive Breath upgrade, Chimeras use their magic attacks on buildings (so they CAN use the standard magic attacks against buildings); after Corrosive Breath upgrade, they will only use the siege attack, which is actually LESS effective against Heavy Armor buildings such as some Human towers. (WC3): Melee heroes with any kind of Orbs can attack air units using a long-range projectile; however they can't use the projectile attack against land units. Obviously, if buying an Orb of Venom implies that the Demon Hunter becomes permanently ranged, that will break the game. But I don't really see any reasons why they can't do it... especially when the Orb of Fire's and Lightning's projectiles look the same as the Archmage's and Farseer's... and they can attack land units with the same projectile. (AoE3): You cannot kill enemy explorers. BUT THEY ARE LYING ON THE GROUND DEFENSELESS, FFS. (AoE3): Mortars can only attack buildings. But I honestly do not know why they can't attack units. I don't care how inaccurate they are - just fire at the balk of the enemies' armies... I am sure some of them will hit...
I remember being able to kill my own unit in WC3 and SC2. I know for sure I've killed my own unit to make room for another unit and stay in Low Upkeep. In SC2, I've had my fair share of killing my own units accidentally.
On February 12 2012 16:32 English wrote: I remember being able to kill my own unit in WC3 and SC2. I know for sure I've killed my own unit to make room for another unit and stay in Low Upkeep. In SC2, I've had my fair share of killing my own units accidentally.
This is not what I meant. I meant that there is no "kill" button that can kill a unit without using force-attack.
On February 12 2012 16:35 Inori wrote: You can attack cloacked units (storm, FG for sure). iirc siege tanks can attack ground too (shift + a + click maybe?), so should be possible with them as well.
You can auto-repair while in medivac.
You can kill your own units, a + click on a unit.
Only if you have a unit there (even your own unit) as a "target".
On February 12 2012 16:52 Sufficiency wrote: This is not what I meant. I meant that there is no "kill" button that can kill a unit without using force-attack.
But since this is a fantasy universe the units aren't so easy to kill, when you need 40 hits with an axe to kill someone committing suicide isn't that trivial.
On February 12 2012 17:21 shaftofpleasure wrote: How can Battlecruisers get repaired by a single SCV to optimum efficiency?
Better yet, how can zerglings or zealots be attacking one side of a bunker yet SCV's can repair said bunker from the other side and fix it up like it's good as new. For that matter how can the rate of repair be quicker than the rate of destruction? Are bunkers made of LEGO blocks?
Why can't you trample stuff in Starcraft? I want my Colossus to skewer Zerglings with their long, pointy legs, and my Thors to smash Marines with their thick feet. C&C always allows vehicles to run over infantry, and thus that series will always have a special place in my heart.
Case in point:
On a more serious note, being on the receiving end of a roadkill is always very frustrating, though being on the dealing end is always so, so satisfying. It's not a requirement for every RTS, but I would be very sad if they took it out of a C&C game.
On February 12 2012 17:43 eviltomahawk wrote: Why can't you trample stuff in Starcraft? I want my Colossus to skewer Zerglings with their long, pointy legs, and my Thors to smash Marines with their thick feet. C&C always allows vehicles to run over infantry, and thus that series will always have a special place in my heart.
On a more serious note, being on the receiving end of a roadkill is always very frustrating, though being on the dealing end is always so, so satisfying. It's not a requirement for every RTS, but I would be very sad if they took it out of a C&C game.
Well, not exactly true I guess. For most of the C&Cs except the most ancient ones, only some vehicles can run over infantries. Beside, it is exactly because of this feature that C&C's infantries were practically useless until (imo) RA3.
However, one may argue why some vehicles can run over infantries, while others cannot; furthermore, why some infantry units cannot be ran over.
Bullets fired only fly 10m. I wonder how much damage a real gun would do, if a weak gun that is only capable of firing a bullet 10m far already does 5dmg.
How can mutas flap their wings in space? Why doesn't marines run out of bullets?
Logic doesn't dictate good games and good balanced games. Even though I get your blog, it just seems like a mix of whine about lacking features and reflection on science.
A few examples like yours which doesn't make sense, but if they were implemented would be game breaking. Flying CC Reaper D8 Burrow
On February 12 2012 16:13 Sufficiency wrote: (SC1, SC2): You cannot attack a cloaked unit directly without detection, even though you can see the "blur" and know exactly where the cloaked unit is (see above). It doesn't make sense that you are not allowed to force your unit to attack "nothing".
This one is kind of strange since most units do whatever you order them to without question or doubt. Such as shooting your own units, running into siege lines (they often do this volountary), continue mining while under fire etc.
You can't "Attack this place on the ground" but you can move a marine out and target it. Or, do the hellion dance, and sacrifice a hellion as a target so that the others can spray the cloaked unit/creep tumor/whatever.
On February 12 2012 20:48 Grovbolle wrote: How can mutas flap their wings in space? Why doesn't marines run out of bullets?
Logic doesn't dictate good games and good balanced games. Even though I get your blog, it just seems like a mix of whine about lacking features and reflection on science.
A few examples like yours which doesn't make sense, but if they were implemented would be game breaking. Flying CC Reaper D8 Burrow
On February 12 2012 20:48 Grovbolle wrote: How can mutas flap their wings in space? Why doesn't marines run out of bullets?
Logic doesn't dictate good games and good balanced games. Even though I get your blog, it just seems like a mix of whine about lacking features and reflection on science.
A few examples like yours which doesn't make sense, but if they were implemented would be game breaking. Flying CC Reaper D8 Burrow
Also, medics heal units in bunkers. (campaign)
Those comics cracked me up.
Oh yes. The Reaper D-8 is one of those odd things. Why it must be used only against buildings...
On February 13 2012 09:12 arb wrote: Siege tanks not being able to attack air, even though they can throw shells over long distances and the cannons point basically straight up
It's funny that a lot of the things you're mentioning were things you could do in Total Annihilation (the first one, anyway). Attacking ground and self destruct were both possible for all units. TA was a fun game.
(SC1): Scourges cannot attack ground units. I don't see why not, really. If it can charge and collide with an air unit, I don't see why they cannot dive at a ground unit. Obviously, if they could, Zerg would be totally overpowered (make scourges -> snipe CC/nexus), but it's so arbitrary that they can't do that.
Scourge can only breathe at a certain altitude, if they get too low they faint and become useless.
On February 13 2012 09:59 Chef wrote: It's funny that a lot of the things you're mentioning were things you could do in Total Annihilation (the first one, anyway). Attacking ground and self destruct were both possible for all units. TA was a fun game.
(SC1): Scourges cannot attack ground units. I don't see why not, really. If it can charge and collide with an air unit, I don't see why they cannot dive at a ground unit. Obviously, if they could, Zerg would be totally overpowered (make scourges -> snipe CC/nexus), but it's so arbitrary that they can't do that.
Scourge can only breathe at a certain altitude, if they get too low they faint and become useless.
And their lungs develop rapidly as they hatch from their ground based eggs, lol
I do get frustrated with lore vs. game abilities though. I read a starcraft book once, and it made me so mad because a ghost took some stim packs and used them, and then dropped 3 nukes at once. Also, all the marines had coffee cups that generated coffee automatically when you added water! I mean come on, that's like free stim packs!
I think it was possible in WC2 to kill invisible submarines by attacking a specific area, but I haven't play this game for ages, so I can't be 100% sure.
On February 12 2012 16:13 Sufficiency wrote: if a siege tank can fire at a unit at any position so long as it is in range, there shouldn't be any reasons why it cannot fire at the said position without anything there
Sure, but you are the one paying for the cost of artillery. Thanks.
EPT
