• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:37
CET 04:37
KST 12:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage0Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win62025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION3
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four
Tourneys
Monday Nights Weeklies SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4 Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
SnOw on 'Experimental' Nonstandard Maps in ASL [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Ladder Map Matchup Stats SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Big Reveal
Peanutsc
Challenge: Maths isn't all…
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1711 users

Ok, so diamond it is :D

Blogs > Damnight
Post a Reply
Damnight
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany222 Posts
January 19 2012 21:26 GMT
#1
Hey guys,

last month i got promoted into diamond, i was quiete happy about that. I began to rape my Platinum opponents along with those dimond guys. 5 weeks have passed and here I am. Same status i had in Platinum, I now have in Diamond. About 50% is the win ratio against Master and about 90% versus Diamond. Only problem is Protoss.

I´ve been around since the beginning of Starcraft II and there weren´t such furious balance discussions since patch 1.1 Terran, as you may recall, August 2010. Back then there was this whole "imbaness" about reapers and bunkers along with the mighty 2-rax.
It feels like we have reached the same point with Protoss, only difference: Is it true this time?

Terran nerfs were good and helped alot, especially in TvZ. There was a radical change for Terran openings; you now were forced to build a depot before rax and reaper-speed was delayed with the necessity of a factory before upgrade. The effect was that 2 rax wasn´t gone, it was delayed a whole lot. The strength was the strong timing on those little maps. Now as the game evolves 2 rax is an element that you through in every once in a while. As it should be. A strategy that works 100% of the time on every map and position possible was never good till now (Talking about the early game).

Four-Gate was one of these strategies. It is gone now, especially in ZvP and TvP very hard to pull of, PvP only certain maps!
So patches were always announced way before they were released. To date there was no new patch released or announced, and people ARE complaining.
Talk like "Protoss imba! Impossible to play against." is daily, but not some lost nerd is saying that, in fact there are thouands complaining.
But is it really the balance? My ZvP is bad and i know that, i lose most of the time being way to greedy. Fixing problems in ZvP seems harder than in any other matchup. Timings are too crisp.
Maps, full of tiny chocke points, hard to engage, third bases so easy to get up for Protoss.
Is it the maps? Is it Protoss? Is it Zerg? But what you really should ask yourself,
is it me?

Most people still hope it is so imba like Terran in August 2010, but if it isn´t and I can´t be certain about that (as no one can), we got to improve, got to improve the matchup, playstyles, mechanics (for me and every other guy not as good as high
master ).

Improvement only works with the right mindset. The mindset here, at least for me is to think of the game as perfectly balanced. And bam, my winrate just went 20% up against protoss (of course after the proper training, with the proper
mindset ).

And do not rage when you lose, everything is allowed, hell we´re at war!



***
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-19 21:59:00
January 19 2012 21:57 GMT
#2
try muta-builds against protoss, if you play it proplerly no low-master protoss should be able to ever leave his 2 base. if he does, go for baserace, unless he has 100 cannons - in that case build 100 spines and win :D

another possible way is to play a passive eco style and tech to hive on ~4 base at minute 14-15 to get broodlords out, then u just chill under spine/spore with infestor/brood and unless he builds a mothership, he should have an extremly hard time to ever beat you.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Br3ezy
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States720 Posts
January 19 2012 22:02 GMT
#3
gratz on making diamond! progress is progress
Check out my guide to mechanics http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319876
Adastrom
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada219 Posts
January 20 2012 01:57 GMT
#4
im a high master protoss, p v z is my best mu and the only time where i lose to z if when they go muta xD, not mass muta, but enough to gain map control throughout the whole game...
Lol pvz
Drolla
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom389 Posts
January 20 2012 07:29 GMT
#5
On January 20 2012 10:57 Adastrom wrote:
im a high master protoss, p v z is my best mu and the only time where i lose to z if when they go muta xD, not mass muta, but enough to gain map control throughout the whole game...


I have to second this, muta's are a challenge to play against.
Damnight
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany222 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-20 12:17:35
January 20 2012 12:16 GMT
#6
Thank you for your replies, I really appreciate it! My normal playstyle in fact is to be very passive, defend defend defend till broodlords... But i will switch to Mutas now since many people suggest it
Servius_Fulvius
Profile Joined August 2009
United States947 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-20 15:02:53
January 20 2012 15:02 GMT
#7
On January 20 2012 21:16 Damnight wrote:
Thank you for your replies, I really appreciate it! My normal playstyle in fact is to be very passive, defend defend defend till broodlords... But i will switch to Mutas now since many people suggest it


You could play very passive around the summer time and get away with it, but you can't anymore unless your opponent lets you. Mutas are nice, but keep in mind that toss are seeing it a lot and are getting better at defending it every dya.

There's all sorts of interesting strategy shifts that make the attack come earlier and earlier. Blink stalkers are pretty much a given thanks to mutas, air openings are becoming more popular, and 6-7gate will wreck your day long before hive. Let's not forget the tried-and-true colossus deathball.

Always post a scout at their potential thirds and prepare to be aggressive if you see and opening. Plus, abusing protoss immobility with speedlings and drops are great distractions while you get up the gas expansions for your late-game composition. Of course, the protoss at any point can say "screw this" and go base race, so I hope you like spine crawlers!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
WardiTV Mondays #57
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 156
RuFF_SC2 140
Livibee 100
Nathanias 89
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 8919
JimRising 609
Sharp 122
Icarus 9
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm72
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Cuddl3bear5
Counter-Strike
fl0m1037
taco 276
PGG 134
Other Games
summit1g13894
shahzam769
Day[9].tv363
C9.Mang0264
WinterStarcraft223
Maynarde120
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1276
BasetradeTV173
Counter-Strike
PGL116
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21489
League of Legends
• Stunt416
Other Games
• Scarra519
• Day9tv363
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6h 23m
WardiTV Korean Royale
8h 23m
LAN Event
11h 23m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 8h
LAN Event
1d 11h
OSC
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
LAN Event
4 days
IPSL
4 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
LAN Event
5 days
IPSL
5 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.