|
Evening sir, Dont lose hope!
In season 4 i hit 18% win/loss ratio in pvp. I spent hours just focusing on that 1 matchup looking up various openings (adelscott FE, 3gate robo etc) to various transitions, for a while i flirted with carriers. Did alot of expirimentation, but what you can fall back on in pvp is the standard slightly boring colossus wars its fairly easy. Just have more colossus and better upgrades then your opponant. During this time you can research various openings/midgames/lategames. To try and figure out this matchup.
So far this season im (roughly) 75% vs protoss. It's a pain in the butt right now for you, but if you do your homework you will find out that it pays off quite a bit.
2 places to start.
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-373-p1-pvp-3-gate-robo-variations-5720293
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Adel's_Late_Gas_PvP
|
Get a practice partner and play together with to try and get a better understanding of the mirror matchup. It really helps because you aren't doing anything else than focusing on the one matchup.
ZvZ can be rageinducing, so becareful! 
|
Hi man! I was recently in somewhat of the same position as you, losing quite a lot of my PvPs. The most important thing that helped me improve in PvP was: Have a plan and stick to it. Be determined and focus on your objective. Doing middle-of-the-road stuff is often times a bad idea in Starcraft 2, but it is especially true in PvP!
The first and most basic decision you need to make is: Do I want to go for 1 base aggression or do I want to expand and defend. This decision should be made very early, probably as soon as you see what map you're playing on. In almost any case, it is a bad idea to divert from this decision, and if you do, you should do it very early. Obviously, if you see him go a stupid Nexus first build or something, you should divert from your plan and go kill him.
After you've made this decision, you should make up some kind of tech path in your mind. All tech paths are viable in both scenarios, but some might be better than others, depending on the map and what your opponent is doing. If you're defending, most of the time you'll want to get a robo, as Immortals are the best defensive units you have. Also you want to make sure you don't die to DTs so you'll need an observer.
Then there's the level of greedyness, in two concepts: In terms of how greedy you're being with your tech structures (1 gate robo twillight being extremely greedy vs 3 gate robo twillight being more safe), and how greedy you're being with your expand. The level of greedyness should be based upon what you scout and feel (yes sometimes you just have to take a guess!).
Some people might disagree with my PvP playstyle, saying it is better to have a more agile plan so that you can react to your opponent better. In most matchups I'd say that is true, but Protoss is a race that revolves around hard timings.. and being too much middle-of-the-road will make you miss those timings most likely. And of course you should still react to the things you scout and what your opponent is doing, but the reaction should mostly be the tech choice. Be determined and focus on your plan!
On a more general note, the mirror matchup is very important to master. I think PvP is a great matchup now actually. Micro intensive with a lot of different strategies available. The most frustrating thing to lose to these days is 4gate warp prism, but that can be held with great micro and base vision.
Hope this helps, regards master eu Protoss
|
I think you are just not understanding the match up. I don't know about PvP that much, i don't play P, but i remember when i started playing Z (i was T and i just hate TvT, it's to stressfull, the positioning war is not something i enjoy) i was lost with the ZvZ, i was thinking it was a stupid match up.
Truth is i didn't had a clear idea of how the early game plays out and the match up in general, after getting some advice and chaging my mindset, i now enjoy ZvZ a lot. Yes mirror can be frustrating because it often boils out to a small mistake having a hudge impact. That's how mirror match up works, you both have the same tools so small edges are very important.
Change your mindset, PvP is almost all about micro imho, just focus more, watch your replays...with this kind of rant you're not going anywhere in the match up.
|
mirrors are the hardest MU and due to the way protoss is designed, it can be a hard match to play. In PvP losing one stalker for free, or getting supply blocked once or losing a pylon or something can cost you the game. But at the same time, it leads to insane micro battles, especially when both sides are on blink stalker + immortal
just stick to one build, preferably 3 gate robo, do a bit of pressure, if you think you can finish him then go all in and add another gateway, if not then go for blink, and expand if youre feeling really ballys
its still a coin flip at times, but its getting alot better
|
On January 12 2012 23:10 ThatGuy89 wrote:
mirrors are the hardest MU and due to the way protoss is designed, it can be a hard match to play. In PvP losing one stalker for free, or getting supply blocked once or losing a pylon or something can cost you the game. But at the same time, it leads to insane micro battles, especially when both sides are on blink stalker + immortal
just stick to one build, preferably 3 gate robo, do a bit of pressure, if you think you can finish him then go all in and add another gateway, if not then go for blink, and expand if youre feeling really ballys
its still a coin flip at times, but its getting alot better
I feel like Mirrors are the hardest because you clearly see which player played that game better. If you have some glaring hole in your play (you don't know when to drone / when to make units, don't chrono boost properly, don't macro your orbital well enough), you can kind of fudge it in other matchups by creating a better unit comp or playing more greedily, and just having more stuff.
In mirrors, if you don't do those things correctly, you die. Which is the beauty of the mirror matchup.
I personally love ZvZ and PvP. I find TvT to be incredibly boring, because you have a decent chance that both players will just mine out the map and not attack before 200/200
Edit: i don't really think ANY of them are coin flips.
|
Coinflip or not it feels like they were almost completely ignored design wise; it'll be balanced so just leave it to whatever turns out good. And then in patches they pretty much had to actually change things and actually do something with them. But HotS doesn't seem to do much for PvP even though it's considered the worst by a lot of people? And the Warhound could potentially make TvT worse i believe although it's not clear yet (meaning if it's effective tank counter which would be awful imo).
|
Cheeeesseeeee.. then, mix it up
|
defensive 3 gate blink. -> Win.
|
Thanks for the all the responses. My biggest problem is not knowing what to do after holding off early game aggression. Expanding is a huge risk since I can die any second. I try to be aggressive, but I don't really know how best to do that.
Btw for now I open defensive 3 gate blink stalker, I can hold off myself fine in early game, the problem is they somehow take their natural while containing me and then kill me with a big doom push minutes later.
|
I play random.
Believe me, I feel your pain.
|
From theoretical standpoint, mirror matchups are best test of skill because both players are on most equal footing. I see a lot of people saying PvP and ZvZ is frustrating though. I play T and really find TvT exciting due to positional wars. There's really a feeling of attacking and defending "territory" rather than only armies. I think mirror matchups put more stress on a players micro because with identical tech, it comes down to who can make more out of their units.
|
On January 12 2012 20:11 lastshadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 18:58 Djagulingu wrote:
Being a coinflip matchup with both players doing some build and crossing their fingers for his opponent not doing the build that counters their build, ZvZ is still the best MM. It's not that you take half the map and wait until your opponent unsieges first and still you can expand. ? PvP isn't so much a coinflip anymore, and TvT is by far the best match-up [in the game] in terms of balance, even most P/Z progamers would say this.
A mirror matchup is balanced? Really?
|
I actually ended up choosing my race by which mirror match-up I hated the least.
|
I'm in Platinum, and in the last 11 PvP games I've lost 1 which was a sneaky cannon rush. I've been doing what day9 said to do on his daily on PvP. Which is the elfi style of 3gate Robo.
Basically I go Gate Zealot Stalker Stalker Robo Gate Gate Sentry Immortal, chrono boosting out the stalkers and attacking as soon as I can (around 5:15). I normally add in my scouting probe as well for a slight bonus and to scare the opponent. Most opponents in plat or below won't be able to defend properly (unless they're doing the adelscot build in which case it's not a 4gate and I can just go home) and you can normally kill a few probes and their first few units before being forced to leave. But even If I don't do any damage as long as I scout them and push any potential 4gates back I'm equal or ahead because I have tech up. So I can just macro with collosi and win 99% of games.
This works really well in platinum atm. See Day9s daily on the build http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-373-p1-pvp-3-gate-robo-variations-5720293 for more info.
|
I always liked playing TvT's when i was gold, because of my stellar macro and unit positioning the only way i would die is if someone put their whole army into drops like 9 min into game when my eco is just kicking in!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
