|
Note: As I've been around the StarCraft 2 community, I've seen about hundreds of people offering StarCraft 2 coaching, seeing many of coaches in action as well, on their streams. It became some sort of a trend within a StarCraft 2 community. You can easily hook yourself up with a SC2 coach, if you look hard enough. Some of them offer their services for free, some of them ask for a hourly fee. Now, what has me thinking is, that a lot of people do follow the formula of 'He is a GM player, he will teach me a lot!'. Many, many posts on that on Teamliquid.net in particular. The question, which lingers in the air is...
So, what makes a SC2 good coach?
The answer could be as simple as 'He needs to be able to teach'. Obviously. However, in terms of mostly limited interaction between the Coach & Student, which is usually Skype and the pair meeting up on Battle.net, the coach needs to be extremelly versatile and articulate, being able to understand his/her student from just seeing them play and hear them talk.
Now, it is no secret, that teaching requires a special sort of personality, skillsets & approach. It can be easily compared to a teacher in real-life. The approach, which the teacher takes heavily influences how fast or slow your Student progresses. Teachers do need to know their stuff, they need to be able to analyze their students and see how is the best way to approach someone's education. It is a common mistake, which I get to see from some real-life teachers, as well as SC2 coaches, who just tell the student what to do, instead of telling their students WHY they are doing it.
The 'WHY I am doing it' aspect is quite important factor in most people's education. from my own perspective, I have trouble remembering something just for the sake of remembering it. I need to know why I am doing something, to find a logic reasoning behind it, thus, being able to remember it with ease.
But when I don't know something, I need to be told!
That statement is only half-true. Of course, if it's a new build order you want to learn, you need to know the necessary steps and timings, to have a very tight openings, as well as gentle macro-mistakes reminders can be useful, to further ingrain the macro into your system. However - often a coach would bring another student of his, to serve as a sparring partner for his student, usually in equal skill-level. That alone is questionable for me a bit, as I personally try to practice with much better players than I am, although admittedly, that can be brutal to one's psychological side and it can take it's toll. Means that if the player is way stronger than you, you'd not see a single win for a week or longer, depending on how much you progress.
Now, what I do find as common issue among coaches is, that they tell their student during the practice game exactly what to do. Now, to make it clear, I am not talking about the situation when the student is learning a new build order. I am talking about when the student is actually playing against someone, with their coaches observing them. In my opinion, that will not teach you anything. As everything in StarCraft is situational, the longer the game goes. You can't just memorize the game from 0:00 to say 20:00. It seems that my original question then still stands, doesn't it?
![[image loading]](http://babytossfighting.kilitar.cz/images/teaching.png) StarCraft 2 Coaching takes a lot more than you realize...
So again, good coach, please?
The coach needs to make their student to think on their own. Yes, go as far as asking them questions during the game, give them a hint, say 'You see a pool going down early, what does that indicate and how can you react to the situation?' It may seem a bit like theorycrafting, but, it does teach you to think 'StarCraft'. It teaches you how to react, what your options are, when you see certain situations laid out in front of you. And when you think about it deeper once your session ends, it will even make sense for you! I'd compare that to a man, who doesn't give a fish to hungry one and teach them how to fish instead.
To offer a bit of personal experience here: I had a friend of mine teaching me this way and sometimes I literally felt like a pupil sitting in class, trying to mumble responses to my teacher, during a lesson at school, but it was totally worth it and it helped some of my skillsets immenselly, when it comes to StarCraft!
Personal approach - Important!
Not everyone is capable of learning by the 'standard pattern'. The way coach approaches their students and the way they teach them, it is equally as important as the game knowledge. Some players maybe do enjoy a coach yelling over at them through Skype bunch of commands, as to what to do and when, however, some people are not as versed in stressful situations and need calmer, slower-paced teacher. In the end, StarCraft 2 coaches are not that different from real-life teachers. They require extensive knowledge of their area of interest, they need to have at least basic understanding of who they are teaching, what kind of player they are dealing with; in order to be able to pinpoint their strong & weak points to be able to help in the most effective way.
What about Coach's league?!
Yes, getting to that as well. No offence to a lot of GrandMaster players, but I'd not pick them as the best coaches. Yes, I do respect their brilliant in-game skills. But, let's pour a fresh wine here and be completelly honest for a while. A lot of these players are so focused on their own improvement, that they do not have the personal skills, time & correct approach to be able to effectivelly pass down their knowledge to their students. And that is perfectly fine, as they are focusing on themselves, to improve their game. However, as I said, being in GrandMaster doesn't make one automatically a good coach.
Even in real-life, sport's coaches are mostly not the best of the best. It simply really comes down to the ability to be able to teach. Good teachers do not always come from champions. However, there is need for wide knowledge, as I pointed out earlier, so no, not everyone is cut out to be a coach. Some people lack the knowledge for it and some people lack personal skillsets, such as empathy, patience and overall ability to effectively teach someone by breaking it down in a way their student would understand the principle, as to WHY they are doing something, instead of just memorizing it, which will not help them in the long run.
For example, look at known caster and personality in StarCraft scene - Sean "Day[9]" Plott. I believe he'd make one of the best StarCraft 2 coaches, because he truly is brilliant in breaking the game down into smallest of smallest pieces, so that it is easy for anyone to understand the concept of what he tries to teach. And, is he a top StarCraft 2 player winning every top tournament nowadays? No. He is not and yet, let's see an extreme example - if I ever had a choice say, between oGsMC and Day[9], Sean would definitelly be the preffered coach for me.
![[image loading]](http://babytossfighting.kilitar.cz/images/knowledge.png) Knowledge of StarCraft is important...
Asking impossible?
Did I just make it sound like StarCraft 2 coaches, if they want to be the best, are to devote time to learning how to deal with people, how to pass down knowledge and how to gain an ability to teach in general? Yes. I did.
But it takes too long? Yes, that is also true.
But think about it. A lot of coaches ask for hourly fee equal to a hourly fee of real-life teacher, who sits with you in real life and talks you through things. I believe, that those who ask people to pay them for their service should aim for providing the best.
And even those kind souls, who try to help other StarCrafters to get better without any monetal reward could think about this. Help in the best way possible, as I believe that is your reason behind wanting to coach others, right? You don't learn to be just a good player. You need to learn how to be a good teacher as well. That too takes it's own time and unique 'practice'.
Last words?
In no way I want to discourage coaches and their students. In fact, I admire that some people do reach out to the community and help others. It is something I highly respect and it is something I'd love to do for others, once I feel my knowledge and experiences are good enough. I believe there's a huge reward in itself to see a student growing under one's wing. Seeing my student 'graduate' under my tutelage will bring only proud blush to my cheeks one day. As it should to you, dear reader, if you happen to be a StarCraft 2 coach.
Good luck and have fun with coaching your underlings!
___________________________________________ * My Twitter *
 
|
Damn this was awesome, did you make that league pyramid yourself?
Hmm, im not 100% sure about GM's ability to coach.
|
On January 04 2012 13:05 RogerX wrote:
Damn this was awesome, did you make that league pyramid yourself?
Hmm, im not 100% sure about GM's ability to coach.
Just a quick reply before I hit the sack, it's 5 am -
That's the thing I am pointing out... a lot of GM players may be awesome and brilliant players. But, because they invest so much time into sharpening their own skills, they do not have time for practicing skillsets necessary for teaching someone. 
PS: Nope, did not do the pyramid sadly, found it somewhere and realized how true it is, when it comes to scaling of SC2 skills!
|
Wow, awesome read. Not a whole lot to disagree with in all honesty. A lot of good points made. I used to think of myself as a good coach, but then I did some thinking, and just because you can make a silver league player beat a diamond, does not in any way make you "good" at it.
That's the mindset I took for a while (it still feels good when that happens, admittedly). If he's beating someone higher ranked than he is, he's improving! I'm telling him what to do, and usually why he's doing it- but can he do it on his own now, and make those decisions for himself? That's one of my biggest troubles, teaching the student how to learn critically and become adaptable.
Also, extremely agreed with your articulation comment. It's the most frustrating thing in the world for me, when I can't say exactly what I mean, and I can only imagine how much worse it is for the student. It's stressful enough as it is, having someone telling you things and trying to win a game with that advising, but it's so much worse when you can't understand where the guy's going with his comments.
|
As someone who tutors high school/university math and physics for a part-time job while in school, I can say I have a lot of experience, as a teacher and a student, as well as having the benefit of watching a lot of other tutors and teachers work (I work for a center that has several tutors working at a time). And I can say that you've actually hit on a lot of what I see and worry about in my job and my life.
Teaching is an art form in and of itself. Yes, it requires a really high level of skill in whatever you're doing, but it takes a lot more too, which is what most people (and even some people who call themselves professional teachers!) don't seem to realize. Teaching ability is transferable, too - teaching is a separate skill that you can practice anywhere. A personal example - I'm a strong math tutor, and though I'm only a high platinum Starcraft player, my friends who play in bronze, silver or gold all look to me when they can't figure something out, because I'm a fairly skilled teacher. I'm not excellent at Starcraft, but I'm able to teach what I know really well because of prior experience.
Something really interesting that you hit on that's always been a really crucial point of teaching for me is 'make the student think on their own'. I always try to teach by asking questions, as I believe any good teacher should, and it's (I think) the best way to do it. For example, running over math problems with my students, I'll go through one of the most basic problems of whatever type they're working on, then almost never tell them what to do again. Rather, once they've got the absolute basics I try to turn almost all of the sentences I say to them into questions. As I watch them go through the process I've just showed them, I'll only offer the most basic of assistance unless they ask a very specific question - I'll even go so far as to usually say only something along the lines of 'be careful' or even just a low murmur to let them know they're doing something wrong. When they realize for themselves, it sticks better, and makes them a far better mathematician.
Being a good Starcraft coach and being a good Starcraft player are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but like you said, they correlate very, very little. Interesting read for sure, especially as someone who's considering teaching as a profession =)
|
Pretty interesting to read, cool to hear you that you think good coaching qualities are a lot of things I strive to try and achieve whenever I coach
|
This thread raises the question, in my mind at least, of how the koreans have been training their coaches to train them. What the foreign scene needs is a couple of people, like Day9 to devote their time to learning how to critique and analyze the highest levels of play so that teams can focus on improving their players more quickly and effectively than all-day ladder grinds like we see often right now. It doesn't even require the teamhouse environment, just skype and a couple of 1v1 Obs maps that the team members can practice while the coach looks on and coaches
after the game.
|
i have been yelling this from my very sound proof room. i have been trying to teach people sc2 and i cant catch a break because im not famous.
my students ALL get better and all come back and purchase more lessons and tell me how much better this was then the coaches from gosucoaching but it wont matter. ppl like me wont get known aside from dumb luck and more importantly bad coaches will rip off fanboys who from what i see are too afraid to question bad coaching methods or dispute a bad lesson
obscure teacher for life
|
Your Day9 example is interesting...
He's not an active progamer, but if he didn't do the daily, I'm sure he could get results.
He was (might still be) GM on random.
|
Of course, the best teachers in any expertise can't just be masters at their own trade, they must be skilled in teaching others (physics professors anybody? :D) Totally agree, and Day[9] 4 lyfe
|
in all honesty i doubt many ppl agree with me on this since ppl are such day9 fanboys. looking at JUST the day9 daily and "how to be a better gamer" his dailys are not that great... really hes run out of stuff to go over so he kinda just posts replays and discusses why the moves the players made were good at bad. its actually pretty awful for the most part. he gets by because hes somewhat of a showman but if you are a rather higher level player you will notice what im talking about and then if you are a rather keen lower level player u may notice that he is repeating himself often.
a lot of the times i find that multiple examples of the same thing help a lot of lower league players but this is simply because the level of inference is low among these players (which is a rather large reason they are stuck in said brackets) and so they cannot correlate an example of bad decision 1 with bad decision 2 and now they view both of these as 2 totally dif examples that teach 2 bad moves when in fact they were one and the same.
id make a montage video proving this fact, its a FACT, but i dont have the time or motivation since i dont dislike day9 or his daily. its a good thing it just isnt what the uneducated masses think it is.
again he is CAPABLE of better but he isnt in the daily
|
you used double 'not not' when u mentioned GM is not a good choice for a coach.
overall i pretty much agree. Its like taking a University professor to teach kinder garden... overall is over priced and not effective.
Its worth to mention the student personal preferences too. From race to style of coach. For example, personally i find minigun coaching (shown on his stream) is really ineffective since all he does is tell the student what to do but doesnt teach them 'how to come up with those move themselves'. But he is a famous coach and a lot of player has success bc of his coaching.
good blog overall
|
Is this the same Babytoss??
Or is it BabyKnight??
Either way I liked the writeup 
|
Cyx: My points come both from real-life teachers as well as from what I see when I watch coaching streams. As you said, teaching is an art, and most people do not have this skill naturally. It comes in when you put in an effort into it. I'd say that training to be a good teacher takes as much effort as to get decent in the game. Note: by decent, I mean at least diamond/Master lvl player.
It's matter of trial and error, both in StarCraft and when learning how to teach. Equally, every student and how you approach them, very situational, just like StarCraft. You can't just memorize bunch of stuff and think how great you are.
When I wrote this, I was also hoping to see SC2 coaches to share their own experience. How they see it and their own approach to teaching their students. And it doesn't matter if they are famous pro players who coach, or someone who we never heard of, who tries to coach. The fact, that someone does reach out to the community and tries to help others is admirable and like I said, I respect it fully and always will. It is always refreshing to see people who want to see the community grow and helping newer/weaker players is a good way of doing it, Especially that in my eyes, it does come with sweet reward in form of seeing your students growing.
GhandiEAGLE: Uh, well, I'm BabyToss, just a random nobody sharing their own thoughts, trying to contribute something at least in some form.
|
I know this post is old, but I just had to comment on it.
I agree with everything you said.
I started playing SC2 about a month ago. I enjoy the game and my goal is to become a great coach. I have no intention of becoming a competitive player or getting to a high rank. If I end up at a high rank, that's great, but it's more rewarding for me to focus on helping othesr get good and get to a high rank on the ladder.
I truly believe that getting the student to think and teach them how to learn is the way to go. I have seen so many pro players coach and basically just talk over the students game, stressing them out and not getting anything done.
Even though I'm only gold, I have had plat players say that they actually changed their way of approaching the game, after I had a chat with them.
I'm very new to coaching and don't have a big name behind me. So finding people to coach is hard. I always make sure to let my students know that the sessions serve as a learning experience for the both of us. That's is why I'm doing it for free as well. I don't feel like I can charge anything when I don't have enough experience to call my self a coach. I'm just trying to learn enough to become a coach.
I just had to comment because it's so rare for me to see people with the same mindset as me!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
