EPT
What if Sc2 was released first?
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JoelE
United States112 Posts
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wilsonreis
Brazil97 Posts
edit: typo | ||
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JoelE
United States112 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:15 wilsonreis wrote: I mommy was a he, i would have 2 dads. Good point. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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butchji
Germany1531 Posts
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juked
United States691 Posts
ex. Boxing 100 unis compared to 12 And I agree with floor exercise. | ||
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Aruno
New Zealand748 Posts
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Jedclark
United Kingdom903 Posts
31st March 1998: Starcraft 1 is released, but without Dragoons, Stalkers instead. It featured all the SC2 units, not SC1 units. 30th November 1998: Brood War is released, but without Lurkers and Medics and all that good stuff. Zerg gained the Viper, Terran gained the Shredder, etc. Fastforward to July 27th 2010: Starcraft 2 is released, but this time without Stalkers, but Dragoons. It features the SC1 units. Sometime 2012: Heart of the Swarm is released, this time with Lurkers and Medics, and it comes with all the annoyances of the BW/SC1 engine. I'd like to see if people would still be lauding SC2 over BW. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
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JoelE
United States112 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:44 XsebT wrote: Do you guys honestly think the only reason we play bw is because of nostalgia? Who said that? | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:32 juked wrote: SC2 would most likely win because it has so many things (mechanically wise) that makes it easier and seems like it should be there. ex. Boxing 100 unis compared to 12 And I agree with floor exercise. Aw cmon, marketing would spin 12 unit control groups as increasing the mechanical demands to further push those insane Korean robots with 500 APM. The fanboys would eat it up. The newer game is sure to win, because it's newer! | ||
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SaYyId
Portugal277 Posts
Bio must have been shit >.< | ||
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apm66
Canada943 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:14 JoelE wrote: Whenever I read another sc1 vs sc2 argument threads, the thought that pops into my head is what would happen if sc2 was released first, and then sc1 was released second. What kind of reaction would people have to the downgrade in graphics? Soviet Russia | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:44 XsebT wrote: Do you guys honestly think the only reason we play bw is because of nostalgia? Yes. If BW came out right now, and Sc2 was "SC1"...would you play it? | ||
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Newbistic
China2912 Posts
I'd troll the shit out of that pompous limey King Arthur too if that was how my life was going to be. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:53 Sm3agol wrote: Yes. If BW came out right now, and Sc2 was "SC1"...would you play it? If he's still playing a 12 year old game, it's probably because he likes it... so I'd imagine he'd still like it. | ||
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Amanebak
Czech Republic528 Posts
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:53 Sm3agol wrote: Yes. If BW came out right now, and Sc2 was "SC1"...would you play it? I only played bw since late 2007/early 2008, so I don't have any nostalgic feelings for it. I was so pumped about the release of sc2 (as was pretty much everybody you see supporting bw today by the way), and so disappointed when I found that it couldn't replace bw for me. | ||
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Diglett
600 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
I'm sure I'd like SC2 a bit more if it came out first, because I haven't experienced any BW....but after BW comes out I'll probably be all over it.  On December 28 2011 06:03 corumjhaelen wrote: Nobody would care about the release of the sequel of a pretty average RTS long forgotten. lol that could happen too. On December 28 2011 06:00 Diglett wrote: they would stick with sc2. very few people actually care about what is the better competitive game because there are so little ppl that play at that level. so even though bw is a way better competitive game it wouldn't become more popular than sc2 because sc2 is very casual friendly. I don't get why people say that SC2 is more casual friendly than BW. I think both games are SUPER casual unless you want to ladder competitively. o_O Playing pub BGH games all day is really fun, and the only reason why it's not as casual friendly anymore is because the game has been out for.....I don't know....over a decade? | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
As for releasing BW in 2010... I don't think you can really take BW out of its time like that. People who value the games difficulty and skill cap do so because the proscene supports the reasons for having that difficulty. If you suddenly make a game with a more difficult interface than every other game around it and no pro scene established, no one really cares that the game has a higher skill cap because there is no pro scene. In other words both games would fail and eSports would never go beyond the level of big Counter Strike LANs and such (ie no special TV channels, no reaching toward cultural acceptance... Just a niche that can't expand properly). This is why BW is so special. There's no denying it came at the right time and the right place, but it's also the only game that was able to do what it did without a helping hand. The examples of CS, Halo, Street Fighter, etc are what prove this. They're extremely competitive and a lot of people care about them, but they haven't been able to simultaneously produce the success that BW did. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:14 JoelE wrote: Whenever I read another sc1 vs sc2 argument threads, the thought that pops into my head is what would happen if sc2 was released first, and then sc1 was released second. What kind of reaction would people have to the downgrade in graphics? Would sc2 even have any players without the support of the original? Would everybody be saying wc2 is better than sc2? Would all the pros switch from sc2 to sc1 when it came out? Would people be nostalgic for inject larvae and blue flame hellions? We will never know the answer, but I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks. Mass evacuation into BW and nobody even remembers sc2 any more. | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
EDIT: Actually... what chef says above me seems to be kinda more true. Instead of both being huge successes, I could imagine both games failing miserably (assuming each games graphics are in line with the times that they are released). | ||
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JoelE
United States112 Posts
On December 28 2011 06:40 MCDayC wrote: The newer game always wins. SC2 would be in a similar position to what BW is now. EDIT: Actually... what chef says above me seems to be kinda more true. Instead of both being huge successes, I could imagine both games failing miserably (assuming each games graphics are in line with the times that they are released). What would happen if the games were identical to how they are now, graphics included, but sc2 was released in 1998 and broodwar in 2010. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On December 28 2011 06:40 MCDayC wrote: The newer game always wins. SC2 would be in a similar position to what BW is now. Always? Quake 4? Counter-Strike Source? And StarCraft 2 would certainly be on that list aswell. While the foreign sc2 scene has "exploded", you must remember that the foreign bw scene wasn't much to begin with. So on what aspects of the Korean BW scene do you need enlightenment? | ||
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Jakalo
Latvia2350 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:54 Newbistic wrote: You think that's bad? Merlin was born in the future and aged backwards. He probably played SC2 then SC1, watched the Star Wars prequels before the sequels, saw World War II before World War I, then technology became worse and worse until finally he's like a bajillion years old and stuck in the dark ages. Fucking hell. I'd troll the shit out of that pompous limey King Arthur too if that was how my life was going to be. The once and future game! | ||
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On December 28 2011 06:49 XsebT wrote: Always? Quake 4? Counter-Strike Source? And StarCraft 2 would certainly be on that list aswell. While the foreign sc2 scene has "exploded", you must remember that the foreign bw scene wasn't much to begin with. So on what aspects of the Korean BW scene do you need enlightenment? This is such a ridiculous thread, I don't really see what we are even discussing as there is so much that is different to BW and SC2 that it isn't really comparable, when SC1 came out it horrendously imba (such as spawning pool costing 150 minerals) and there was a lot of shit that was really really bad. When SC2 came out it was balanced very well, yeah there was 5 rax reaper and such but it didn't destroy the game for long periods of time, I doubt we would accept the level of balance. Also SC2 wouldn't have taken off in Korea, one of the biggest reasons why SC1 succeeded was because of PC Bangs(Internet Cafes) and that you could just go to a PC Bang and play a game on LAN with someone nearby, SC2 doesn't have no LAN and therefore would not have been applicable to PC Bangs as you must have your own account to play and account sharing cannot take place (Violated EULA) | ||
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Ktk
Korea (South)753 Posts
*This is because 1998 internet access in USA vs Korea and the cultural & economic shift which is how [bw] got big in Korea anyways. Which would allow people like boxer, etc. to get an outside advantage community-wise. Of course there could be the occasional foreigner [analogous to Grrr...] who could do very well. 12 years later, BW would make it even harder mechanically, and since the people who are the best have the best mechanics, BW would be ignored from the foreign pro-community; SC2 remains on top, casuals wouldn't be inclined to play BW because why would you play a game where you can't 1A your 120 lings or build more than 3 hydras.. er, roaches, er, shit at once? | ||
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Conquerer67
United States605 Posts
But, I'm assuming that you mean game-wise, with SC2 being called SC1 and the game BW being called SC2, with the release dates switched. In that case, nobody would really care about SC at this point. It's basically as simple as that, people would say shit like, "Wow, this game has an interface and graphics ten years ahead of it's time! EZ mode." People in the 90's wouldn't have accepted SC2 the way they did with SC1 and BW. The skillcap was part of the reason they did so. And if they hadn't accepted it, then there would be no interest in it or wonderful sites such as this one. | ||
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Cupine
Canada51 Posts
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Falling
Canada11349 Posts
But despite people's obsession with graphics, I don't think it's such a big hang up if it was marketed right. Flash games for instance are pretty simplistic/ cartoony, but for some reason those games are pretty popular anyways. (I personally hate the art style.) Similarly, LoL is a lot more cartoony than for instance HoN and yet it has a huge player base. I'm pretty sure BW art style would actually hold up if they used the same style and just updated pixels/ the ratio that it works for bigger screens/ made it work for hd. The forums would be pretty active though. There would be a LOT of rage over dragoons and goliaths fritzing out all the time. And Artosis would be leading the charge with DT's being imba (like he was before.) The SupCom crowd would hate it though. A lot of RTS games have moved to complete automation to the point of almost watching a movie. The so-called spam fest complaint of every single Blizzard title is pretty loud in SupCom circles. (Not realizing it's not really useless spam as there really are that many possible things to do- unless you're talking chrono boosts and mules which is pretty much a clunky system added in for no other reason than to force more apm.) | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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HaruHaru
United States988 Posts
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On December 28 2011 07:25 HaruHaru wrote: if sc2 came out first, esports would not exist Yup cause WC3, CS, CoD, Halo, Dota wouldn't exist if it weren't for BW....... and ofc BW was so huge outside Korea that it had a massive impact on the western esports scene and without it, there would be no such thing...... If sc2 came out first, you have no idea what would have happened. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
More relevantly if we had had 10 years of SC2 patches and metagame improvement early SC1 AND the UI shittieness would make sc1 a nonstarter | ||
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cmen15
United States1519 Posts
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:53 Sm3agol wrote: Yes. If BW came out right now, and Sc2 was "SC1"...would you play it? i play a good amount of BW right now. and i never heard of the game until months after i played SC2. explain that to me please? | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:29 butchji wrote: Everybody would be like: "Yeah, a game where I have to click workers individually to start mining - where there is no way to regain the health of my marines after I stimmed. Also very good that I have to click every single barracks to build marines and click on every single barracks + every single location to change the waypoint... and..." Dude did you hear about medics? xD On topic: daaamn i would whine. | ||
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ii.blitzkrieg
Canada1122 Posts
To address the OP, I doubt it would have turned into what BW turned into in korea. With things like no chat channels / LAN / making internet cafes pay $ to blizzard to run their game and so on it wouldn't have had a chance. That is disregarding the superior gameplay element all together. | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:32 juked wrote: SC2 would most likely win because it has so many things (mechanically wise) that makes it easier and seems like it should be there. ex. Boxing 100 unis compared to 12 And I agree with floor exercise. That's why I'm shocked that SC2BW hasn't really taken off. If you say.... remade Brood War but with the same easier mechanics as SC2 and minor balance tweaks to compensate for this, then you'd see a beautiful e-sport. | ||
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
On December 28 2011 09:55 Clbull wrote: That's why I'm shocked that SC2BW hasn't really taken off. If you say.... remade Brood War but with the same easier mechanics as SC2 and minor balance tweaks to compensate for this, then you'd see a beautiful e-sport. That's because SC2BW is a random custom map on the SC2 engine and Brood War is Brood War. They are nowhere near the same thing. | ||
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JoelE
United States112 Posts
On December 28 2011 10:05 Daozzt wrote: That's because SC2BW is a random custom map on the SC2 engine and Brood War is Brood War. They are nowhere near the same thing. Can you elaborate on why it can't work as a custom map in sc2? Dota comes to mind. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On December 28 2011 10:46 JoelE wrote: Can you elaborate on why it can't work as a custom map in sc2? Dota comes to mind. because pathing doesn't work the same and you can't muta or vulture micro | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
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