EPT- Avid Fan
In Defense of Close Spawns
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forelmashi
421 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
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pyaar
United States423 Posts
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TylerThaCreator
United States906 Posts
On December 27 2011 04:19 pyaar wrote: Xel'Naga Caverns Arid Plateau Arid Plateau was just added this season. Personally I think the map is okay. I agree with the OP somewhat: Scrap Station was a really cool map that I think could have worked with a little more tweaking. Xel'Naga Caverns, wha'? I think what the OP is referring to as locked cross spawns are MLG maps such as MLG Antiga Shipyard which only has cross positions. | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
Also for your last point some expos have to be risky to take, you have to have dominate map control, to take a map and make risky moves that's how you get ahead. | ||
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pyaar
United States423 Posts
On December 27 2011 04:27 TylerThaCreator wrote: Xel'Naga Caverns, wha'? I think what the OP is referring to as locked cross spawns are MLG maps such as MLG Antiga Shipyard which only has cross positions. oops, you're right. | ||
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forelmashi
421 Posts
On December 27 2011 05:26 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: Actually the reason we need locked cross spawn is because the maps are poorly designed look at the maps in the teamliquid contest they really don't need lock positions because they were designed well enough to not have it. The only 4 player map I can say this to is Tal'Darim all the other maps would perform better with locked spawns. Also for your last point some expos have to be risky to take, you have to have dominate map control, to take a map and make risky moves that's how you get ahead. MLG also locks Metalopolis and Antiga Shipyard and Shakuras Plateau, etc. I think this is unnecessary. One of Blizzard's noted concerns from Brood War spectators is the "one battle decides the game" feature of Wings of Liberty. I believe that locking cross spawns encourages this kind of "tug of war" play because the game expands toward your opponent only, with limited tangential components. | ||
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TG Manny
United States325 Posts
I feel that MLG Metalopolis could use close by ground spawns to mix up the matches, while allowing safe expansions to be put up elsewhere for 3rd+ bases. A two base timing by Zerg would be nice to see vT rather than quick 3rding because...well...you can? If you make players fight for a base in-between we will see more "special tactics" of two base all-ins, hidden expansions to the other side of the map, etc. It will make a BO3 on the same map feel like three maps if you spawn in all three types of positions on Metal (close by air, far, and close by ground) because players react to how the map position allows units to be used. (IE early harassment by terran goes bye bye on cross, but he may 3 rax push into your nat in a close by ground position) | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On December 27 2011 05:58 TG Manny wrote: it's because shakuras is symmetrical at a 45 (or whatever it is) degree angle, instead of along an axisI don't see why they force cross spawns in Shakuras Plateau on those variants. if you spawn close by air, one guy has more dead space around the main to work with for air harass | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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Silencioseu
Cyprus493 Posts
On December 27 2011 07:06 infinity2k9 wrote: They should just fix the game balance so being close doesn't completely break matchups. thats actually harder than locking close positions | ||
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HereBeDragons
1429 Posts
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2WeaK
Canada550 Posts
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
On December 27 2011 07:36 Silencioseu wrote: thats actually harder than locking close positions Plus those fixes can break non-close spawns. Particularly with WG mechanic which basically disregards distance. Game balance will always be a delicate balance of map balance and unit balance, and there will always be seemingly OP unit and strategies on some maps that will be completely eaten alive on others. I pity the SC2 balance team sometimes, they have a damn hard job and they get flamed daily for being too rash/too timid/too much/too little/too biased towards P/T/Z/too macro-happy/too cheese-happy. | ||
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Scisyhp
United States200 Posts
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CharlieBrownsc
Canada598 Posts
But in close spawns, when you take farther expansions, you'll have (bear with me) the same surface area, and the same amount of it close to your enemy (your main base). So although it doesn't become more hectic as the game progresses, it is so much more hectic from the get-go that it doesn't matter And that is with the assumption that 3rd bases are more vital than your main | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On December 27 2011 06:22 Zanno wrote: it's because shakuras is symmetrical at a 45 (or whatever it is) degree angle, instead of along an axis if you spawn close by air, one guy has more dead space around the main to work with for air harass Shakuras was only forced close air back when there were rocks into the main around. Since then tournaments playing the new Shakuras don't force cross position. Even if tournaments do, it has nothing to do with the dead airspace and everything to do with low ground tank pushes. | ||
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