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A long time ago, back in Season 1, I considered playing on NA instead of SEA. But, like an idiot, I cheesed my placement matches (Void Ray rush, nobody knew how to fight it back then at the lower leagues) and got into Platinum. Keep in mind I was a Bronze player.
A few days ago, having not played at all in Season 4, I had to do placements for SEA. Got into Gold league. While browsing TL just now, I suddenly remembered how I originally thought of playing on NA. And I would have to do my placements over, as I haven't played in Seasons 2-4 in NA. I don't care about achievements, and NA has a better tournament scene. Unless I'm missing something, it would seem that switching to NA is the logical choice.
So my question to TL is, if someone reading this has played both or plays one and has extensive trusted knowledge of the other: What, if any, difference is there in skill / metagame between SEA and NA, and do I really have any incentive to remain playing on SEA?
 
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I void ray cheesed (flux vanes never forget) my placement matches and wound up in bronze heh.
I don't play either or have extensive 'trusted' knowledge but everyone I play with from SEA complains about lag now and then. Gl
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Wait so you're in Gold league or something like that and you're worring about differences in METAGAME from NA to SEA?????
FUCK!!
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Fortunately, I'm rational enough to admit you have a good point despite the fact that it seems you're being a dick about it. (Though this is the internet, any subtext has a high possibility for error.) Forget the metagame, I just want to know about if there's any skill difference and if I have any reason to stick with SEA.
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On December 24 2011 19:16 Salivanth wrote:
A long time ago, back in Season 1, I considered playing on NA instead of SEA. But, like an idiot, I cheesed my placement matches (Void Ray rush, nobody knew how to fight it back then at the lower leagues) and got into Platinum. Keep in mind I was a Bronze player.
A few days ago, having not played at all in Season 4, I had to do placements for SEA. Got into Gold league. While browsing TL just now, I suddenly remembered how I originally thought of playing on NA. And I would have to do my placements over, as I haven't played in Seasons 2-4 in NA. I don't care about achievements, and NA has a better tournament scene. Unless I'm missing something, it would seem that switching to NA is the logical choice.
So my question to TL is, if someone reading this has played both or plays one and has extensive trusted knowledge of the other: What, if any, difference is there in skill / metagame between SEA and NA, and do I really have any incentive to remain playing on SEA?
NA does seem to be easier than SEA for leagues below masters. Gold on SEA should be enough to get you to high plat/low diamond on NA. It's difficult to pin down any clear metagame differences - some people claim SEA is cheesier, but I don't think there's any consensus.
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Interesting. I wonder why NA would be easier than SEA.
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NA has a wider variance of players. You'll find that the lower end players (bronze to diamond) are worse in NA then in SEA, and possibly some of the low/medium masters as well. However, high masters/GM/Pros are generally of a better standard in NA. So, at your level OP, it'll probably be easier on NA.
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So is there any real reason to stick with SEA at this point?
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On December 24 2011 19:50 heha wrote:
NA has a wider variance of players. You'll find that the lower end players (bronze to diamond) are worse in NA then in SEA, and possibly some of the low/medium masters as well. However, high masters/GM/Pros are generally of a better standard in NA. So, at your level OP, it'll probably be easier on NA.
Not sure if serious..
More players = more competition. More competition = higher competence to rise. Consider this; There's actually Code F through Code S divisions for all leagues below master. Master only takes up 2% maximum of the userbase. If that 2% is full, people who are very good will be stuck in diamond until spots in master open up by people being bad and then dropping out. You frequently see people who are actually very bad at the game drop out of master eventually, People with very low numbers of games played grind their way into master with build order wins. They float around 20-25% win rate for a while until they eventually get kicked out. What this does mean is that all these people with these particular crushing BO's have to be taken out for other people to advance. that means a lot more practice against the strongest builds in the game for people coming up from lower leagues.
The reason it looks like its a high variance is that people actually game the system to get the strongest BO's. A lot of the better players range from plat+ to diamond+ in the S rank divisions. You'll definitely have your hands full trying to crack master on NA in its current state.
On December 24 2011 19:25 Salivanth wrote:
Fortunately, I'm rational enough to admit you have a good point despite the fact that it seems you're being a dick about it. (Though this is the internet, any subtext has a high possibility for error.) Forget the metagame, I just want to know about if there's any skill difference and if I have any reason to stick with SEA.
its more like "fuck man, thats crazy! To have a need to worry about metagame at such low leagues means it must be tough" etc. This contributes to a lot of claims of trolls and internet arguments, its that people always take the most negative connotation in text, have a defensive attitude while reading anything, and its an internet cultural mindset. I wonder politics over distance never devolved into letter flame wars..
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I really should take on the philosophy of someone I read about once. "On the internet, things are so often misinterpreted that I always try and take it in the most positive way possible" or something like that.
There's some interesting stuff about the different "codes" in leagues that I shall have to mull over. It makes sense that in diamond and masters, getting promoted is INCREDIBLY hard. In Plat-Diamond, it's something like 800 Diamonds for every 1000 Plats, but Diamond-Masters, it's more like 100 Masters for every 1000 Diamonds, making the pipe clogged and only the very best can squeeze through. Demand outstrips supply: More people are trying to make it to masters than there are spots available, and competition is fierce as hell, much fiercer than Plat->Diamond.
It's looking like there is no real reason to stick with SEA as nobody has actually given me one, so it looks like I'll be moving to NA.
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On December 24 2011 19:22 drooL wrote:
Wait so you're in Gold league or something like that and you're worring about differences in METAGAME from NA to SEA?????
FUCK!!
this, lmao.
Why don't you just man up and focus on getting better rather than playing on an easier ladder?
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I actually don't care about playing on an easier ladder. My problems with SEA are mainly:
A) I end up playing the same guy twice in a row a lot. I like the unpredictability of ladder. (And no, I don't cheese, I enjoy it for reasons other than "lol easy wins")
B) It takes longer to get games. It only takes a minute or so now, but at higher leagues it could take a lot longer.
C) I don't really see a benefit that makes SEA > NA. It just seems that I'm going to probably want to move to NA someday anyway, due to more players, a higher-developed scene at the high levels, and greater tournament support, so why not now?
Really, the only reason I even posted this on TL was in case somebody came up with something pro-SEA that I had failed to think of. Ladder difficulty was something I was interested in so that if it was harder or easier, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that I suddenly sucked / was much better if I ended up in a different league to what I'm in now.
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Well, generally from my experiences a lot of people I talk too sea actually has quite solid play below masters, but from masters it starts to drop off a bit, and a lot of people are a league above their sea league on na.
If your thinking about tournaments sea has a lot of them,especially below diamond. Clan leagues, ladder tourneys, bsg cups. The bsg cups, community opens and masters cup happen on a weekly basis. Whats more there is also an esl cup. (do you know about sc2sea.com?)
This should be good enough if your even semi pro, for gold etc, as someone mentioned, you really shouldnt be worrying too much about this. Just find out which one lags worse and play on the other one.
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I have 3 players on my team in high masters who believe that NA is harder at their level than it was on SEA. But I know two low masters SEA players who see no difference. So I guess you wouldn't really notice anything for a long time if you switched? Good luck though 
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The consensus from what I've read over a number of topics on SEA ladder is that the SEA server is weaker as a whole, but a much more closely knit community. Even SEA gm's are only high masters or low gm on NA.
edit: If you're below masters you won't notice a thing other than queue times
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On December 24 2011 20:38 Humanfails wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 19:50 heha wrote:
NA has a wider variance of players. You'll find that the lower end players (bronze to diamond) are worse in NA then in SEA, and possibly some of the low/medium masters as well. However, high masters/GM/Pros are generally of a better standard in NA. So, at your level OP, it'll probably be easier on NA. Not sure if serious.. More players = more competition. More competition = higher competence to rise. Consider this; There's actually Code F through Code S divisions for all leagues below master. Master only takes up 2% maximum of the userbase. If that 2% is full, people who are very good will be stuck in diamond until spots in master open up by people being bad and then dropping out. You frequently see people who are actually very bad at the game drop out of master eventually, People with very low numbers of games played grind their way into master with build order wins. They float around 20-25% win rate for a while until they eventually get kicked out. What this does mean is that all these people with these particular crushing BO's have to be taken out for other people to advance. that means a lot more practice against the strongest builds in the game for people coming up from lower leagues. The reason it looks like its a high variance is that people actually game the system to get the strongest BO's. A lot of the better players range from plat+ to diamond+ in the S rank divisions. You'll definitely have your hands full trying to crack master on NA in its current state. Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 19:25 Salivanth wrote:
Fortunately, I'm rational enough to admit you have a good point despite the fact that it seems you're being a dick about it. (Though this is the internet, any subtext has a high possibility for error.) Forget the metagame, I just want to know about if there's any skill difference and if I have any reason to stick with SEA. its more like "fuck man, thats crazy! To have a need to worry about metagame at such low leagues means it must be tough" etc. This contributes to a lot of claims of trolls and internet arguments, its that people always take the most negative connotation in text, have a defensive attitude while reading anything, and its an internet cultural mindset. I wonder politics over distance never devolved into letter flame wars..
Except Korea/Taiwan server has less players than NA and EU and wayyyy harder...
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On December 25 2011 06:37 Entropic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 20:38 Humanfails wrote:On December 24 2011 19:50 heha wrote:
NA has a wider variance of players. You'll find that the lower end players (bronze to diamond) are worse in NA then in SEA, and possibly some of the low/medium masters as well. However, high masters/GM/Pros are generally of a better standard in NA. So, at your level OP, it'll probably be easier on NA. Not sure if serious.. More players = more competition. More competition = higher competence to rise. Consider this; There's actually Code F through Code S divisions for all leagues below master. Master only takes up 2% maximum of the userbase. If that 2% is full, people who are very good will be stuck in diamond until spots in master open up by people being bad and then dropping out. You frequently see people who are actually very bad at the game drop out of master eventually, People with very low numbers of games played grind their way into master with build order wins. They float around 20-25% win rate for a while until they eventually get kicked out. What this does mean is that all these people with these particular crushing BO's have to be taken out for other people to advance. that means a lot more practice against the strongest builds in the game for people coming up from lower leagues. The reason it looks like its a high variance is that people actually game the system to get the strongest BO's. A lot of the better players range from plat+ to diamond+ in the S rank divisions. You'll definitely have your hands full trying to crack master on NA in its current state. On December 24 2011 19:25 Salivanth wrote:
Fortunately, I'm rational enough to admit you have a good point despite the fact that it seems you're being a dick about it. (Though this is the internet, any subtext has a high possibility for error.) Forget the metagame, I just want to know about if there's any skill difference and if I have any reason to stick with SEA. its more like "fuck man, thats crazy! To have a need to worry about metagame at such low leagues means it must be tough" etc. This contributes to a lot of claims of trolls and internet arguments, its that people always take the most negative connotation in text, have a defensive attitude while reading anything, and its an internet cultural mindset. I wonder politics over distance never devolved into letter flame wars.. Except Korea/Taiwan server has less players than NA and EU and wayyyy harder...
GL getting into that server without a friend on the inside to sell his soul and social security number to you and stay by his cellphone for the inevitable fact checking phone call to make sure he's a real asian of the country.
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On December 26 2011 09:16 Humanfails wrote:
GL getting into that server without a friend on the inside to sell his soul and social security number to you and stay by his cellphone for the inevitable fact checking phone call to make sure he's a real asian of the country.
Nah, you can get one easily, there are many stores that sell a taiwan key for 59 ausd.
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On December 26 2011 09:16 Humanfails wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 06:37 Entropic wrote:On December 24 2011 20:38 Humanfails wrote:On December 24 2011 19:50 heha wrote:
NA has a wider variance of players. You'll find that the lower end players (bronze to diamond) are worse in NA then in SEA, and possibly some of the low/medium masters as well. However, high masters/GM/Pros are generally of a better standard in NA. So, at your level OP, it'll probably be easier on NA. Not sure if serious.. More players = more competition. More competition = higher competence to rise. Consider this; There's actually Code F through Code S divisions for all leagues below master. Master only takes up 2% maximum of the userbase. If that 2% is full, people who are very good will be stuck in diamond until spots in master open up by people being bad and then dropping out. You frequently see people who are actually very bad at the game drop out of master eventually, People with very low numbers of games played grind their way into master with build order wins. They float around 20-25% win rate for a while until they eventually get kicked out. What this does mean is that all these people with these particular crushing BO's have to be taken out for other people to advance. that means a lot more practice against the strongest builds in the game for people coming up from lower leagues. The reason it looks like its a high variance is that people actually game the system to get the strongest BO's. A lot of the better players range from plat+ to diamond+ in the S rank divisions. You'll definitely have your hands full trying to crack master on NA in its current state. On December 24 2011 19:25 Salivanth wrote:
Fortunately, I'm rational enough to admit you have a good point despite the fact that it seems you're being a dick about it. (Though this is the internet, any subtext has a high possibility for error.) Forget the metagame, I just want to know about if there's any skill difference and if I have any reason to stick with SEA. its more like "fuck man, thats crazy! To have a need to worry about metagame at such low leagues means it must be tough" etc. This contributes to a lot of claims of trolls and internet arguments, its that people always take the most negative connotation in text, have a defensive attitude while reading anything, and its an internet cultural mindset. I wonder politics over distance never devolved into letter flame wars.. Except Korea/Taiwan server has less players than NA and EU and wayyyy harder... GL getting into that server without a friend on the inside to sell his soul and social security number to you and stay by his cellphone for the inevitable fact checking phone call to make sure he's a real asian of the country.
Ignorance sure is amazing :D.
But to the OP just focus on getting better and if I were you yes I would focus purely on NA ladder. If i were a player looking to get better I would play on NA/EU/KR for sure.
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EPT
