That you're willing to completely side step the fact that the knife of professionalism cuts both ways really disappoints me. Naniwa fucked up, but he does not hold within his hands the ability to do real damage to the premier SC2 tournament, much less turn it into a kespa Frankenstein.
The fact that there weren't as many outraged GOM customers as you expected disservices your argument.There is a very loud, and I would think fairly widespread demand for leaner, longer tournament formats. What GOM did wasn't even in defense of a better product than what you get in any average GSL, by a lot of counts it was a crappier product. Gambling the broadcasted professionalism on player attitudes seems like a weird choice when there is a simple fix that can just be built into the tournament. Much like in the game of Starcraft, it's best to take the sure thing.
I hear some sympathy for Naniwa, but I hear very few voices saying what he did is acceptable or should not have been punished at all, and by misrepresenting that view point you've opened the door for a red haring that isn't going to help GOM or esports. They need to get bit in the ass by the community every inch as badly as Naniwa does.
That being said, I think you're basically right about Naniwa. I still think the issue with his behavior is fundamentally the same issue with GOM's.
The relationship between the two could be described as "irrefragable", if you need a ten dollar word.
On December 19 2011 10:42 revan89 wrote: I want to preface my post by saying I am a huge EG fan, and especially an idrA fan.
However, that does not mean I take every post from anyone on the EG team and proclaim it as treasure without actually thinking a bit about its contents - this is especially addressed to all the schmoozers who replied: "o_o AMAZING post!!!". I am sure the poster does not require such meaningless validation.
Now to the actual analysis. I think the post is extremely hypocritical. Sure, all the pro-teams and franchises (GOMTV, MLG) want to make money. Sure, it's more than reasonable to punish a player that disrespects - or is perceived as disrespecting - the producers/fans/other players, etc. What is NOT reasonable is to make up rules or hand out extremely harsh punishments that alienates many other players/fans that will inadvertently disagree.
Let me point this out how Mr. EG Alex actually handled a very SIMILAR situation.
"My point is that in all of the scenarios, examples, and hypotheticals I've outlined above, the player or team - at the very least - still did its job, put on a show for the spectators, and delivered a quality product to its respective league. All of them, of course, except for the one we're all so feverishly discussing. "
So how did idrA's forfeits against WhiteRa and Nerchio put on a good show?
Regardless, EG Alex did not fire idrA or cut his salary for his repeated forfeits or bad mannerisms. He knew this would hurt his business. Maybe idrA would leave - taking away a huge chunk of fans and revenue away from the team.
Same applies to GOMTV and their ridiculous punishment. It's not like Naniwa forfeited repeatedly or BM-ed the opponents in all his matches. This was a first instance of bad judgement and action on his part. Did he deserve punishment? Sure, I can't argue against that. But GOMTV should have just warned him or given him a small fine instead of taking away his spot and taking such a radical measure for a first offense. The fact that it spurred such negative reactions is a testament of it. By the way, I disagree with the 65/35 and 70/30 - the statistic is subjective and not based on any measurements - personally I believe it is much closer to 50/50, especially with regards to the harshness of the decision.
Answer us this, Mr. Alex, would you believe suspending idrA after one of his first offenses, or even after his Nerchio forfeit acceptable? Obviously not, since you did not do it. So please stop asking everyone else to accept GOMTV's punishment as acceptable.
Just read through this post, maybe you should do the same with OP. Almost everything you critize is complete bs and Alex has stated a different opinion than you tell.
Thanks for nothing, person-that-creates-a-new-account-to-hate-here..
Also, GOM did not "take away Naniwas spot" they simply revoked an offer made to him, because of his actions. Had Naniwa forfeit a live-broadcasted game in some other important tournament, GOM might have done exactly the same. Their goal is to get the foreigners that show the most potential to advance far and to provide a great show. Not playing one's games is not exactly providing a great show. If I would work at GOM I would have done the same. Also, Naniwa can now prove that he really is as good as people believe, by making it through Code A and thus getting in Code S. (Also makes Code A more interresting for me)
Very insightful and interesting read. As a fan of the e-sports scene I agree for the most part. As a player I couldn't care less about Nani's decision. If you're playing in a major tournament, get knocked out completely with no chance to continue and then are told you are not allowed to forfeit a match and must play.... no way are you going to make any effort. After seeing both the players in that position I didn't even plan on watching the match. Moving away from the sports analogy if by some (horrible) turn of events I was failing one of my courses and had no way of passing but I HAD to write the final exam I would write my name on the thing and leave. Sometimes, it's better to cut your losses. I'm a fan of Nani and I'll look forward to the Nani vs. Nestea match that matters. Not a forced game that means nothing.
Great read, I agree with many of the points you stated and just wanted to add something else.
Everyone knows that the match had no real meaning tournament wise, but hell, he was selected along with other 9 players to play GOM's final tournament of the year, whether you can qualify or not, you've been selected as one of the top players throughout the year, many other high skilled players would do anything to play there, just for the sake of respect (both to the fans and the tournament) you should play all your matches, it's dumb to think that because you just want to win you have the right to mess with the entertainment schedule that has been planned. Honor and respect are a big part of eastern culture, and you should take that into consideration.
I know that, for instance, Boxer would never do something like this because he clearly understands that for Starcraft to work you need to give quality games to the public, as a player you're responsible for bringing entertainment, he hasn't show amazing results, however I can assure you, a lot of people will watch his games because they're just great to watch.
Players should start thinking about the big picture here, for e-sports to grow you need tournaments, teams, sponsors and players to do their job, the industry built around Starcraft only works if players realize that this is bigger than them alone.
GOM's decision to withdraw Naniwa from the candidates of code S is pretty reasonable considering their view on professionalism and respect.
While I agree that in other sports teams purposedly throw games, they still play the whole game (90 mins in soccer and so on), when a game's lenght isn't determined by time it just looks silly when someone doesn't want to play.
Throwing games in a rising e-sport hurts way more than doing it in a established sport, we're building a new form of entertainment from scratch and simply can't afford to be unprofessional or immature.
Just wanted to say that I fully agree w/ this write up. Nothing against Naniwa, but as a paying customer I was disappointed the match up went like it did. Naniwa vs. nestea was a headline game of the entire Blizzard Cup for me and I'm sure others as well.. Anyways thanks for the informative post!
Nani kept his honor by dropping the game in an explicit manner, not by faking ''doing his best'' and lose...
The thinking behind the scenes at GOM isnt considered in this blinded, one-sided article. The writer ''Alex'' didnt notice this aspect of the tourney.. making dump reverences with real-life sport (a striker missing every throw, bla bla bla)... I dont watch friendly high-profile soccer games, because IT SUCKS BIG TIME compared to the real thing... wake up, don't believe that PRO's should think as you manager/commercial CEO do, no way that is appropiate! Nani didnt cheated, he showed that SC2 is just a FUCKING game, and that wicked Korea shouldn't think that all players are flawless in behavior,,, wake up!, they are gamers, sitting behind a computer! FOR GOD SAKES!
I am glad that this blog delivers a sound explanation of the issue. In previous threads, many fans argued that Naniwa didn't really break any rule so that the punishment by Gom is unwarranted. While that argument is correct in a formal sense, other arguments exists which do warrant some kind of action to ensure that this should not happen again.
Also I am glad that the point was made that a competition which is held to create a product of entertainment cannot be tailored purely from competitive points of views, so scheduling a match with a meaningless outcome is okay in this case.
As I saw the Blizzard Cup finals with the award ceremony before the actual finals, I saw that the cup was planned as a big spectacle, not only another random tournament.
On December 21 2011 06:42 epb1982 wrote: Nani kept his honor by dropping the game in an explicit manner, not by faking ''doing his best'' and lose...
The thinking behind the scenes at GOM isnt considered in this blinded, one-sided article. The writer ''Alex'' didnt notice this aspect of the tourney.. making dump reverences with real-life sport (a striker missing every throw, bla bla bla)... I dont watch friendly high-profile soccer games, because IT SUCKS BIG TIME compared to the real thing... wake up, don't believe that PRO's should think as you manager/commercial CEO do, no way that is appropiate! Nani didnt cheated, he showed that SC2 is just a FUCKING game, and that wicked Korea shouldn't think that all players are flawless in behavior,,, wake up!, they are gamers, sitting behind a computer! FOR GOD SAKES!
They are not gamers, they are professional esports athletes.
Naniwa did not kept his honor in showing the world that he doesn't care. He compromised the Cup and the spirit of sportsmanship. He gets paid even for not leaving the group stage, one can expect that he puts up a show. If he isn't in the mood to play or if he wants to save his originally planned strategy versus Nestea for the next encounter (which is fully understandable) he could go with a standard game or even with a risky all-in.
He gets paid by Gom for the Cup and by his team manager. What he did was like leaving work early – without having the agreement that he can take some time off.
I did watch the game. Oh man, Nestea already out, Naniwa too. How sad. But wait, there is a history between both players and Gom did schedule the match even though neither of them can advance. YES!
I saw the proberush – even without any micro – and was irked. Yeah I knew Nestea and Naniwa couldn't get out, but there still was pride on the line. I was especially annoyed that Naniwa showed this kind of disrespect to Nestea. He denied Nestea to save face to finish at least not last place with a single regular win.
Naniwa is not just a gamer. He is a professional esports athlete.
If you're not interested in my own personal thoughts that I felt a need to share here, do not continue reading.
Okay, so I have a few feelings I would like to share about this post and the entire issue. I want to start by saying that I by no means want to be offensive or in anyway rude. I just want to share my thoughts on this post. I am certain that EGAlex can understand that and can read this as constructive criticism, hopefully the rest of you guys can as well. I also want to say that I, like Alex, am not going to go into the punishment chosen by GOMTV. This has been discussed in various threads and does not belong in this one. This is also written as a direct response to said person.
I want to start off with trying to understand why you decided to throw yourself into the debate. I do understand that you are a big pillar of eSports and has a lot of power and knowledge. Off topic I also deeply respect you for this. However you are extremely biased. It is inevitable that you are. I do understand your feeling that you want to express how the “business side” of eSports views the issue but I feel that, like many of the repliers have pointed out, comparing this with IdrA is something you definitely want to avoid if you want to stay unbiased. I do think that you, as a representative of a different team, should stay out of these kinds of discussions unless you want to express the official statement of Evil Geniuses. I think it is impossible for someone in your position to make a personal statement. To make an example, IdrA's old habit of leaving games to early is most likely one of the reasons why his stream has such a huge amount of viewers. All publicity is good publicity in the long run. This however is not the main point of this post.
I think that the entire comparison between what you refer to as “professional sports” and eSports is flawed. The reason for this is the relative shortness of each StarCraft-game compared to a, for example, NFL game. This means that you will, most likely, never pay money to go see one StarCraft-game. Unless a best of 9 or something like that becomes standard it is hard to sell StarCraft “one game at a time”, if you get what I mean. Unless it's for a really big finals (In which case forfeiting is unlikely) this will never be the case. Even if all of the NFL fans bought a season ticket, there would still be differences between one game of American football (I am Swedish, deal with it ^^) and one game of out of many of StarCraft. What I mean is that there is a lot more planning involved in a NFL game than in a StarCraft game. You get into the car, go to the stadium, find your seats, buy popcorn and so on and so on. It requires a lot of planning. This is of course similar in a situation like the GSL finals. However, at this stage of StarCraft 2 a “meaningless” match will never be played as a single game, but will be played as one game of many being played that day.
This means that buying a ticket for a NFL game which only lasts for one game and the game takes 3 hours (I don't know actually, there are so much commercials you can't really tell during Super Bowl which is the only NFL I ever watch) is vastly different to paying for a whole StarCraft 2 tournament. You know that there will be meaningless games and you don't really care for them either. Even the mighty American MLG quits one stream instead of showing placement matches simply because the audience doesn't care as much for it. The GOMTV product is a tournament as a whole and it is not each single game. What GOMTV wants people paying for is the entire experience of a tournament and not a package of games. You also by yourself point out (I actually can't find it now that I'm looking but I'm 99% sure, please correct me if I'm wrong) that you're surprised there aren't many unhappy subscribers. I think that there are very few viewers that were actually dissatisfied. They saw the starter of this huge controversy live and even though they had looked forward to seeing “the grudge match” it obviously wasn't half as intriguing with both players being out. No one would ever give the winner any credit anyway, since both players obviously would play halfhearted. This would also be the case in a “professional sport”.
I just want to finish this wall of text by saying that the behavior of Naniwa was despicable. I do believe though, that you are letting, something that in the end is Quantic Gamings and Naniwas PR-problem, get out of proportion.
The game is meaningles, because you have 60% Nestea against 20% Naniwa. No pro player will ever play on 100% if it doesn't mean anything for him. Even if he loves every single fan personaly (lol), he is not capable of puting 100%. Everything that drives him in wanting to be the very best player in the world is gone. He wants to be the best, but it can't happen. Can happen tomorrow, but not today. He may try to play the game, but it will not be real. It can never be real. Why on earth you would ever want to see such game? Really?
I also wonder about people saying this is actually bad for Naniwa. He was one of the least liked players around. Not hated, just not loved. He was rarely good at interviews, not funny, switching teams. Now he actually expressed himself in a strong way. Lotsa people like him for it, lot of people hate him. All they care.
I've always respected Naniwa as a player, now i actually like him. Go go Naniwa!
On December 22 2011 00:58 Madars wrote: NaNi is just a human...
He is just a human. He is given the chance to learn from the mistake he made. He is not "banned" from GSL, and this thread focuses on more the action than the player himself.
For those of you saying that Nani is in the wrong, that may very well be the case, but just because he is wrong doesn't warrant the punishment. While this blog talks about this action representing a precedence of e-sports athletes taking games seriously, there is another precedent being created by GOM saying that tournament organizers have the right to revoke spots they've guaranteed as prizes for a tournament because they don't like something that an individual did; something which was never expressed as being against the rules or wrong. If you are looking towards the future of e-sports, it is very important to preserve player trust in organizers, otherwise the whole system breaks down. It's even worse when they very blatantly lie about it in the way GOM did. I'm curious if anyone actually believed GOM's statement about the MLG Providence prize not being a Code S spot.
Now what actions should GOM have taken? Make a statement expressing your disappointment with Naniwa's actions and that those actions may effect what events GOM invites Nani to. At this point the inevitable Nani apology would come and you could move on from there.
I do not care about an E-sports scene as a football fan would care about football. I care starcraft because it's fun to watch. A starcraft match can only be fun to watch when either the players are really driven to win and put in their abslute bests, or when there is a showmatch kind of match (Shoutcraft invitationals). Half-hearted matches either result in rushes or boring games. Naniwa is one of the most driven players of all to win a tournament, and I compltely understand that he would forfeit a game that has no meaning to him (at that time), and I personally think the game he would have played if he didn't probe rush wouldn't have been any fun either (people keep mentioning he could have 4-gated, but who cares bout an unmicroed 4-gate?).
I suggest people just enjoy starcraft and don't get so involved in a major bunch of drama about a pointless match.
I agree with the decisions of everyone involved, but I try to imagine what it would feel like if everything I did was meaningless. Why try hard if my efforts don't matter.
EPT
