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Nestea vs Naniwa Korean Twitterstorm - Page 26

Blogs > Waxangel
Post a Reply
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See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
December 13 2011 14:37 GMT
#501
Deserved comments. Nani's not gonna last, no team will want him in korea after that...
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 13 2011 14:37 GMT
#502
On December 13 2011 23:34 Pehrfect wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.

You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.

It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.

I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now".


awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby.


Go to respond, see "Sweden."

Nevermind


No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby.

Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion.

Yeah, go figure it's the swedish fans who would side with naniwa, who just by coincidence happens to be from sweden. I'm just gonna take the benefit of the doubt and say that not all swedish people would do something as retarded as this in naniwa's situation. Never could I imagine morrow or thorzain doing that. They would be happy to just play a game for their fans against the best players even if they had no chance of winning the group.
Ponchey
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden89 Posts
December 13 2011 14:37 GMT
#503
On December 13 2011 23:35 Sif_ wrote:
naniwas attitude was ridiculous. what a spoiled kid.

EVERYONE wanted to be on that tournament, on his spot. and he takes it and gets owned and then throws away a game? i wanna see him CRUSHED in code s! MAKE IT HAPPEN KOREANS


I guess you're trolling, since you claim that Naniwa was "owned" in his first three games.
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
December 13 2011 14:37 GMT
#504
On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?


It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point?

The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.


Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;;

Now I look like a dumbass...


lol how can you even compared that with this?

They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match.

You are fucking dumb dude.


User was warned for this post
MildSeven
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada311 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 14:44:00
December 13 2011 14:38 GMT
#505
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.

I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.

Also, what naniwa did can't be compared to the actions of Coca, because it was completely on his own will, he didn't consult with Nestea about throwing the match, etc, it was the spur of the moment stupid decision, nonetheless still a decision in very unprofessional and poor taste. This game is a competitive professional game, and it really does matter, I can't believe some people would argue that it's ok to do an action such as this. Would Nadal and Federer just double-fault all day in a exhibition match just to get it over with because it doesn't matter of the results? No, because professional competitive sports/games is about performance for the fans as well, you go in with the dignity of acknowledging that, many foreigners don't have as much respect for starcraft on the same level because of their ignorance of how Koreans percieve coompetitive gaming as a whole. The international scene may have more money, but it's clear from the responses of many people here that the prestige and essence of the game still lies in Korea where the game intrinsically matters more than just a few groups of cliche highschool kids going "u mad? lolololol".
muffinsssss
Profile Joined August 2010
29 Posts
December 13 2011 14:38 GMT
#506
It's a pro players job to always try and provide entertaining games. Just because the game doesn't affect the outcome of this single tournament doesn't mean there shouldn't be repercussions to his actions. Naniwa doesn't give a shit about his fans, or really anyone else besides himself. I personally wouldn't ever rage about something like this, but the fact that he still has fan boys is hilarious.
Mantraz
Profile Joined March 2011
Norway119 Posts
December 13 2011 14:39 GMT
#507
He's one in two players representing foreigners for blizzard cup. This is an embaressment.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
December 13 2011 14:40 GMT
#508
On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?


It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point?

The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.


Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;;

Now I look like a dumbass...


lol how can you even compared that with this?

They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match.

You are fucking dumb dude.

They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless.

I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
December 13 2011 14:40 GMT
#509
On December 13 2011 23:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:34 Pehrfect wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.

You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.

It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.

I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now".


awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby.


Go to respond, see "Sweden."

Nevermind


No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby.

Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion.

Yeah, go figure it's the swedish fans who would side with naniwa, who just by coincidence happens to be from sweden. I'm just gonna take the benefit of the doubt and say that not all swedish people would do something as retarded as this in naniwa's situation. Never could I imagine morrow or thorzain doing that. They would be happy to just play a game for their fans against the best players even if they had no chance of winning the group.


Same as americans would defend IdrA's behaviour i guess.

IdrA calling people he meet on ladder "shit, crap, worthless, fucking this, fucking that"

God knows what he says about progamers behind their backs.
Presidenten
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden777 Posts
December 13 2011 14:40 GMT
#510
On December 13 2011 23:31 lovekr wrote:
So its ok for naniwa to behave anyway he likes disrespecting alot of people until his stupidity lose Quantic its sponsors, startale no longer want to provide space for sase to practice and esports falls ever more downwards in terns of respect?

shame on all these people upset by his action they should wise up!


lol how could naniwa get sase kicked out of the startale house at all? and especially, by just forfeiting games? listen to yourself... Plus, sase isn't in the ST-house right now, naniwa himself is though...
BadgerBadger8264
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands409 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 14:44:08
December 13 2011 14:41 GMT
#511
Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion.

While some people are definitely overreacting, if this kind of attitude becomes common in starcraft a lot of games would become very boring. A lot of matches are played "just for show" instead of for money and this attitude hurts all those games. What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.

Does that mean he should lose his tournament spot? No.
Does that mean he deserves all the hate he's getting? No.
Does that mean he should seriously work on his attitude because it's really hurting his image? Hell yes.

Just because someone does something right (occasionally plays entertaining games) does not mean he should be immediately excused of everything bad he does. People gave Stephano a lot of flack for that Complexity business because he was simply acting unprofessional, the same happened with IdrA when he was BMing everyone; just like they're giving Naniwa a lot of flack for acting unprofessional now. It's very justified.
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
December 13 2011 14:42 GMT
#512
On December 13 2011 23:40 Femari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?


It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point?

The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.


Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;;

Now I look like a dumbass...


lol how can you even compared that with this?

They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match.

You are fucking dumb dude.

They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless.

I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game.


CoCa threw the game in favour of Byun to get Code A status or what it was.

NaNiwa just threw the game because it was pointless and it didn't favour nestea eighter because he was already out aswell.
Ponchey
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden89 Posts
December 13 2011 14:42 GMT
#513
On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.


Well, that was still different, because even if it didn't matter to Hero, it mattered for his opponent and for the competition as a whole.
mcmartini
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1972 Posts
December 13 2011 14:42 GMT
#514
After reading his interview saying the MVP team would not practice with him and then reading their comments I don't know if I should feel bad for Nani or not :/ It seems like no one there liked him, I can sort of understand him not wanting to be there anymore.
I just want to say I have 370 APM - Liquid'Tyler SotG 14-12-2011 "I mean it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fucking whiny bitch on the internet or we would have lots of rich community members" Nick "Tasteless" Plott
Presidenten
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden777 Posts
December 13 2011 14:42 GMT
#515
On December 13 2011 23:40 Femari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?


It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point?

The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.


Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;;

Now I look like a dumbass...


lol how can you even compared that with this?

They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match.

You are fucking dumb dude.

They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless.

I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game.


jesus maria.... byun vs coca was not pointless coz it could lead to a code a/s (dont know which) spot, and nani vs nestea on the other hand was completely and utterly pointless
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
December 13 2011 14:43 GMT
#516
On December 13 2011 23:42 Presidenten wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:40 Femari wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?


It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point?

The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.


Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;;

Now I look like a dumbass...


lol how can you even compared that with this?

They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match.

You are fucking dumb dude.

They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless.

I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game.


jesus maria.... byun vs coca was not pointless coz it could lead to a code a/s (dont know which) spot, and nani vs nestea on the other hand was completely and utterly pointless


exactly.
ForTheDr3am
Profile Joined November 2010
842 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 14:44:41
December 13 2011 14:44 GMT
#517
On December 13 2011 23:42 Ponchey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.


Well, that was still different, because even if it didn't matter to Hero, it mattered for his opponent and for the competition as a whole.


I didn't see people crying when Hero went Nexus first against MC, which has about as much of a chance winning as workerrushing.
Pehrfect
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden13 Posts
December 13 2011 14:44 GMT
#518
On December 13 2011 23:38 muffinsssss wrote:
It's a pro players job to always try and provide entertaining games. Just because the game doesn't affect the outcome of this single tournament doesn't mean there shouldn't be repercussions to his actions. Naniwa doesn't give a shit about his fans, or really anyone else besides himself. I personally wouldn't ever rage about something like this, but the fact that he still has fan boys is hilarious.

I'd say it's the pro players job to try to perform well in tournaments. Some people just want to watch good play, no need to play "entertaining games".
Taengooo
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
December 13 2011 14:44 GMT
#519
On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.

I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.




Beyond this,

It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally.

But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand.

That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
December 13 2011 14:44 GMT
#520
On December 13 2011 23:40 Presidenten wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:31 lovekr wrote:
So its ok for naniwa to behave anyway he likes disrespecting alot of people until his stupidity lose Quantic its sponsors, startale no longer want to provide space for sase to practice and esports falls ever more downwards in terns of respect?

shame on all these people upset by his action they should wise up!


lol how could naniwa get sase kicked out of the startale house at all? and especially, by just forfeiting games? listen to yourself... Plus, sase isn't in the ST-house right now, naniwa himself is though...

Throwing games brings a bad image and they could end a partnership due to image issues. You have to look good for sponsors.

Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
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