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Nestea vs Naniwa Korean Twitterstorm - Page 27

Blogs > Waxangel
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MildSeven
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada311 Posts
December 13 2011 14:45 GMT
#521
I also like the add that i don't think Choya should publically be so harsh about Naniwa considering his little ladder points scandal, Choya's actions in the past should be stigmatized far more than what Naniwa did.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
December 13 2011 14:46 GMT
#522
On December 13 2011 23:42 Presidenten wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:40 Femari wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?


It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point?

The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.


Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;;

Now I look like a dumbass...


lol how can you even compared that with this?

They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match.

You are fucking dumb dude.

They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless.

I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game.


jesus maria.... byun vs coca was not pointless coz it could lead to a code a/s (dont know which) spot, and nani vs nestea on the other hand was completely and utterly pointless

It was because there was no deal for new spots for 2012. Mr. Chae himself stated this when the event happened.

This is well known. It's been known for a long time that at the time of the tournament there was no spot on the line at all.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
Nadarath
Profile Joined July 2011
98 Posts
December 13 2011 14:46 GMT
#523
On December 13 2011 23:41 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion.

While some people are definitely overreacting, if this kind of attitude becomes common in starcraft a lot of games would become very boring. A lot of matches are played "just for show" instead of for money and this attitude hurts all those games. What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.

Does that mean he should lose his tournament spot? No.
Does that mean he deserves all the hate he's getting? No.
Does that mean he should seriously work on his attitude because it's really hurting his image? Hell yes.

Just because someone does something right (occasionally plays entertaining games) does not mean he should be immediately excused of everything bad he does. People gave Stephano a lot of flack for that Complexity business because he was simply acting unprofessional, the same happened with IdrA when he was BMing everyone; just like they're giving Naniwa a lot of flack for acting unprofessional now. It's very justified.



I as Naniwa fan dont feel offended at all. I think only ones offended in this whole history are Nestea fans. And only because Naniwa didnt give them chance to gloat how Nestea is awesome by wining against Nestea (if he would have won).
Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition.
MildSeven
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada311 Posts
December 13 2011 14:48 GMT
#524
On December 13 2011 23:46 Nadarath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:41 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion.

While some people are definitely overreacting, if this kind of attitude becomes common in starcraft a lot of games would become very boring. A lot of matches are played "just for show" instead of for money and this attitude hurts all those games. What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.

Does that mean he should lose his tournament spot? No.
Does that mean he deserves all the hate he's getting? No.
Does that mean he should seriously work on his attitude because it's really hurting his image? Hell yes.

Just because someone does something right (occasionally plays entertaining games) does not mean he should be immediately excused of everything bad he does. People gave Stephano a lot of flack for that Complexity business because he was simply acting unprofessional, the same happened with IdrA when he was BMing everyone; just like they're giving Naniwa a lot of flack for acting unprofessional now. It's very justified.



I as Naniwa fan dont feel offended at all. I think only ones offended in this whole history are Nestea fans. And only because Naniwa didnt give them chance to gloat how Nestea is awesome by wining against Nestea (if he would have won).
Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition.


Yes, because suddenly you have become an expert of understanding the nooks and crannies of the Korean culture.
Kralic
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2628 Posts
December 13 2011 14:48 GMT
#525
People will get over it.
Brood War forever!
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
December 13 2011 14:48 GMT
#526
On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.

I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.




Beyond this,

It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally.

But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand.

That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be.


Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players.

That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing.
Umilard
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden38 Posts
December 13 2011 14:48 GMT
#527
Why is there so much fuss about a totally pointless match? They were both out of the tournament, I can understand people think it's BM when it still have effect for other players (like NASL where a bunch of people didn't play the final matches or when idra forfeited IPL groupplay, stephano sixpool etc) but this is just silly.
Falcor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada894 Posts
December 13 2011 14:49 GMT
#528
The games didnt matter so it was pointless to play the games. And im sure the tournment will be fine without the game actually being played. Really the only people this effects are the fans who wanted to see nestea vs naniwa. At which point if it pisses you off that naniwa doesnt give a shit about his fans then stop supporting him.
BadgerBadger8264
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands409 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 14:50:28
December 13 2011 14:49 GMT
#529
I as Naniwa fan dont feel offended at all. I think only ones offended in this whole history are Nestea fans. And only because Naniwa didnt give them chance to gloat how Nestea is awesome by wining against Nestea (if he would have won).
Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition.

It's cool that you don't feel "offended", but he is still dissapointing a lot of people. A lot of other (deserving) pro gamers could be in this high profile tournament instead of Naniwa and a lot of people paid or stayed up late to watch him play, and he's disrespecting every single one of those people. Regardless of if you feel "offended", you would've rather seen him play out his game and it's simply unprofessional not to do this.

And good job on shitting on an entire culture in one sentence. But don't worry, I personally don't feel offended by you offending Korean culture, so because one person doesn't it's probably alright.
Eggah
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia12 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 14:50:49
December 13 2011 14:49 GMT
#530
On December 13 2011 23:38 muffinsssss wrote:
It's a pro players job to always try and provide entertaining games. Just because the game doesn't affect the outcome of this single tournament doesn't mean there shouldn't be repercussions to his actions. Naniwa doesn't give a shit about his fans, or really anyone else besides himself. I personally wouldn't ever rage about something like this, but the fact that he still has fan boys is hilarious.

Nah actually its a pro players job to WIN games... everything else comes secondary truth be told.... and Naniwa on many occasions has thanked his fans.. I am a fan personally and I thought it was hilarious... I suppose you either love him or love to hate him
MVP|MMA|Polt|MVP|Jjakji
Atoissen
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway1737 Posts
December 13 2011 14:50 GMT
#531
It was a pointless match, and everyone was waiting to see who would do the cheesiest thing (I was sure this game wouldnt last 8 min.) And naniwa lost, gg, wtf more about it?
“Strength lies not in defense but in attack.”
raheelp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States54 Posts
December 13 2011 14:51 GMT
#532
if this was a such an important tournament why did half the players cheese gtfo. what naniwa did was fine, hes just a guy with a big ego.
Disposition1989
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada270 Posts
December 13 2011 14:51 GMT
#533
On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:


oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.

oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.


It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay.


"is not even close to being okay"

lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts.

You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't.


are you saying that playing a 2 minute game where you picked a "strategy" that had no chance of winning in an invite only tournament that 8 people in the world were invited to where most of them have won multiple tournaments, being one of only two non koreans is something NOT bad for his image as a professional gamer and his team's? he's living in a country where people highly prioritize showing respect for others, especially elders in a match being streamed across the globe and just because he was already mathematically eliminated, he should give up the chance to play a televised match against arguably the top zerg in the world in a very hyped up match to avoid being phony? like so many people have already said, their culture is big on respect, "i just want to show good games" is like the most common phrase ever. he isnt just playing football at recess against the 7th graders
Slider954
Profile Joined March 2011
United States342 Posts
December 13 2011 14:53 GMT
#534
On December 13 2011 23:48 Waterflow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.

I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.




Beyond this,

It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally.

But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand.

That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be.


Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players.

That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing.



Their tourney, their rules. If the players don't like it, they don't have to sign up for them. Nobody forced Nani to play in the tourney, he did it cause he wants to show the world he is the best.
Best in the world at what I do
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
December 13 2011 14:53 GMT
#535
On December 13 2011 23:48 Waterflow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.

I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.




Beyond this,

It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally.

But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand.

That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be.


Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players.

That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing.

Maybe Naniwa shouldn't agree to those terms then.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
Ostby
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway38 Posts
December 13 2011 14:54 GMT
#536
This is why I love Naniwa
Pehrfect
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden13 Posts
December 13 2011 14:54 GMT
#537
On December 13 2011 23:41 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
...
What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.
...

Should it really be up to the players to always try to do what's "good for starcraft or the GSL"?
I can agree that this was probably not good for GOM/GSL, but in an international tournament like this, maybe GOM should have considered not showing games that don't matter in case something like this would happen.

Considering Naniwas fans, don't they realize this is his personality? Why support someone whose character you so fervently dislike?
Taengooo
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
December 13 2011 14:55 GMT
#538
I love how its only <500 post count-ers who are the ones who connect with Nani's behavior and as such are trying desperately to deflect from/justify it lol
hALLE
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden19 Posts
December 13 2011 14:55 GMT
#539
On December 13 2011 23:46 Nadarath wrote:
Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition.



Just quoting this for some extra attention. The shit he gets from the team twitters such as MVPs is redonk. How can they even say stuff like that about a fellow player.

Also I dont see people giving others nearly enough shit about the same thing. If I'm not mistaken Idra almost never plays out his placement matches at MLGs and such and that is what this game was right? A placement match.
romanov
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands892 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 14:57:43
December 13 2011 14:56 GMT
#540
MC just posted this:

오늘 경기를 보고 할말을 잃었다 정말 프로라는 단어를 알기는 하는걸까 나의 프로패셔널 마인드의 롤모델은 화이트라 아저씨다. 팬들을 정말 사랑하며 정말 끝까지 경기를 포기하지않고 모든사람에게 친절하다. 화이트라 아저씨를 싫어하는사람이 있을까?

Edit this to:
나니와가 화이트라 아저씨를 보고 좀 마인드를 바꿨으면 좋겠다. 상대방 생각도안하고 그런식의 행동은 올바르지 않다고생각한다. 만약 내가 3승0패 1위진출확정이고 나니와가 0승3패인데 난 어차피 1위니까 너랑 게임 안해라고 하고 시작하자마자 gg치면

2nd edit ^^:
자신의 기분이 어떨지는 생각했으면 좋겠다. 뭐 돈이 안걸려있으니까 상관없다라고하면 더이상 해줄말은 없다 그냥 너는 프로가 아니다라는 말만 해주고싶을뿐. 나니와를 보며 어제 지고나서 정말 분해하던 현덕이형이 정말 멋있게 느껴질뿐이다.

Anybody that can translate?
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