|
I play Zerg, with about 2800 games played since release. And, I'm gold league. I spent the first season in bronze and silver, the second in silver and gold, third I was promoted to platinum, then demoted to gold, where I am now. This is progress, but it's slow, mostly because my practice has been to hit the queue button without really analyzing my game much. Interestingly, when I have paused to analyze my game, I've often had a strong improvement afterward.
The good news is that I now have a huge mass of my games to analyze, about 2000 of them, though only the last month or so are probably relevant.
So I'm spending some time poring over my season 4 games (212 of them) in SC2Gears, just to see whether I can spot any interesting trends.
I've noticed that my win rates vary greatly by map.
Metalopolis 75%
Abyssal Caverns 60%
Nerazim Crypt 57%
Tal'darim Altar LE 57%
Shakuras Plateau 48%
Xel'Naga Caverns 42%
Antiga Shipyard 41%
The Shattered Temple 36%
Interestingly, the four poorest maps for me are the ones I get most frequently, with Shattered Temple being the most frequent.
I do think I know what some of the problems are. I've been systematically trying to perfect my economic play, in part because I'm definitely weaker as the games get longer, and I'm trying to get more practice with longer games. So, it's harder to do as well with that on Xel'Naga Caverns, for example, because my opponents more often go straight for heavy one-base aggression, since they don't need to scout where I am. Shattered Temple requires killing rocks for a third, which is something I often put off because I'm doing other things, and then I wind up with a late third or one that's far away and hard to defend.
Antiga Shipyard I'm a little more confused about. Maybe the problem is that it's small? The third is pretty accessible and it doesn't seem like it should be a significantly harder map than the ones over 50%.
Another interesting point is that game length is a minute or two longer on average on the four weakest maps for me, although I'm not sure average games of 12:27 on Metalopolis and 14:43 on Shattered Temple would explain the 75% vs 36% win rate.
So, I'm kind of on the fence. My impulse is to veto the three bottom maps and just press ahead with what I'm doing to improve. However, I don't want to cheat myself out of a useful learning experience.
Edit: What maps are Zerg players vetoing these days? And why? Interestingly, I notice that my ZvZ is worse than the other two matchups (though I'm not going as econ heavy in ZvZ for safety), and those three maps that are the worst for me are the ones where I play most of my ZvZ games. I win 42% of my ZvZ games, 52% of my ZvP, and 60% of my ZvT.
 
|
Veto Xel'Naga Caverns, and Abyssal Caverns. They are the worst maps for Zerg. Not sure why you're doing poorly on Shattered Temple. Since the close spawns are removed, the map should be fine. I'm not exactly a fan of Antiga either, but since the 3rd is easy to get and the close spawns were removed, I'm fine with it.
|
I think, like I say, my problem on Shattered Temple is that I just absolutely hate putting the mental effort into killing destructible rocks for a third. I think I win more games on Tal'darim Altar because the size helps, and also the third is so attractive that I do wind up killing the rocks. Given the tendency to put such rocks in, I probably should get over that.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VKnMT.jpg)
You can always take the other third skipping the rocks for later.
|
Thanks for the diagram! Yeah, that's what I do, but man, I always end up with my army totally out of position trying to defend it. 
Edit: What's the consensus more generally on how to use map vetoes? If I had to guess, I'd say that vetoing maps just because of win percentages would be less a good idea than looking at the maps and making judgements about which ones to play based on their arrangement.
|
On November 15 2011 10:49 Lysenko wrote:
I think, like I say, my problem on Shattered Temple is that I just absolutely hate putting the mental effort into killing destructible rocks for a third. I think I win more games on Tal'darim Altar because the size helps, and also the third is so attractive that I do wind up killing the rocks. Given the tendency to put such rocks in, I probably should get over that.
My advice is to do a build with the specific aim of giving you the chance to break down the rocks and then defend the expansion. It's important to have clear aims in your builds (cheers Day[9] for that advice in a long ago Daily).
I personally would not vote down any map that isn't irredeemably bad (see last seasons Searing Crater), as you won't improve without learning various styles of play. As in, you might like to play macro games but your opponent might want to do a one base rush. Your aim is to beat your opponent, therefore you want to be able to play those kinds of games.
Some would argue that by vetoing smaller maps you make it much harder for your opponent to do such a build, and I suppose they have a point. After all on ladder you are given the option to sort of play your own game by vetoing certain maps, cheesers can veto super big maps and macro players can do the opposite and thus play only in their comfort zone. But in my eyes to become objectively better you have to be able to deal with cheese and rushes and one base play.
|
Interestingly, after reading this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=280609
I wonder if my high win percentages on Abyssal Caverns and Nerazim Crypt are just because the people who follow TL (and presumably know what they're doing) have them vetoed? :D
I'm kind of kidding. Also, thanks for the thoughts, TheKY, I definitely see where you're coming from.
On November 15 2011 11:10 The KY wrote:
As in, you might like to play macro games but your opponent might want to do a one base rush. Your aim is to beat your opponent, therefore you want to be able to play those kinds of games.
That's certainly true, but I'm not sure that there are any maps other than XNG that really seriously favor one base rush play right now. In the case of that particular map, my best strategy to win more might just be to focus on one base rush play myself, but I don't know whether banging my head against defending a fast hatch on that map is really worth what learning will happen. Especially when I usually have to cancel it anyway when I scout their mass-whatever one base play.
|
My favourite map ZvT is easily shattered temple mainly because I love destructing my rocks AND enemy rocks, sometimes early, maybe even as their expo is saturating! This makes all the difference to do some possible ling counters and have a reasonable 3rd. I like close by air even, because while it puts our naturals close, the T army is spread thin if trying to be cute with strong ground pushes upon the third --> means possibly less midgame enemy attack paths with standard play!
protip You need 8-10 lings attacking each rock face so as not to have idle lings pitorp
Same story with Antiga- i like it because attacking rocks opens up offensive attack paths for zerg to deny enemy thirds or fare better against some tank contains. Better yet, the rocks are HUGE long things that can be demolished quickly due to surface area....seriously if you can hit both faces with 20 lings it is dust in no time.
I actually don't quite favor TalDarim altar...got any tips back for me? I do tend to delay those third rocks, maybe I should change that? lololoo
TLDR; start loving to destroy the destructible rocks, Shattered Temple will be yours.
On another note, Abyssal Caverns is my most challenging and fun ZvZ map because taking/keeping/denying that nongold third is freaking hard. Makes for more interesting plans and strategies :p
|
As a Terran I think Shattered is pretty rough on Zergs. A Tank Marine push to that tight choke and you can't get out (unless you remember to break out the back door through 2 rocks or have army outside for flank or have Mutas).
And used to be basically auto-win on close positions lol. Thank god that was removed. Also I hate rocks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
