• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:02
CEST 17:02
KST 00:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3
Community News
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)9BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13
StarCraft 2
General
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 3
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 25668 users

Perfect's Showmatch Apology

Blogs > VTPerfect
Post a Reply
VTPerfect
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States487 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 05:01:19
November 14 2011 04:53 GMT
#1
I must say that coming up with 400 words of apology to Pokebunny is quite difficult. Luckily I may also talk about why the game is balanced. So here it is; Pokebunny, sorry for saying "LOL" when you mentioned BW Mechanics. Sorry for also complaining in our old VT practice games that gateway units were so bad instead of typing gg and leaving the game. Sorry for making so many balance threads and getting my old TL account NearPerfection so many warnings and bans. Sorry for complaining even louder than IdrA without any major tournament wins and probably being just as or more wrong than him at times too. Pokebunny is a strong player especially in his age-group and I'm sure if he decides to pursue a progaming career he has a good chance of succeeding.

That said, I would like to say that currently PvT is very close to balanced and that although Gateway units don't have anywhere near the utility of Bio, It's a manner of finding the exact Gateway unit compositions vs X builds in order to the "right" amount of gateway units while being able to tech to units with more utility.

Gateway vs Barracks
- I complain about gateway units often because there are very many situations where a 2/3rds or more less costly tier 1 army defeats a protoss tier 1 army. This leads to situations where even if a Protoss is ahead if he finds himself in such a situation he will lose regardless. This is undoubtedly frustrating. One of the most notable examples of this is NASL S1 finals between MC and Puma on Shattered temple where MC is 40 supply ahead 170-130 of Puma, Puma then suicides 2 medivac full of MM in order to kill charge. Charge is cancelled and then Puma despite a very large army deficit is able to annihilate MC and win the game because all of MC's Sentries/HT were EMP'd and zealots have a movespeed of 2.25 while stim marines have a movespeed of 3.37 thus Puma was able to achieve an insane level of cost efficiency and win the game.

Since this time Rax build time has been increased to match that of the gateway, Charge although not completely fixed (it is still possible to not be hit by charging lot before charge runs out) is much stronger than previously. EMP radius has been nerfed to that of Psi storm 1.5. These changes seem to effect mid to late more than simple Rax/Gateway.

Here is where I go into the Realm of "Situation Theory". Although Technically base stat wise Rax is superior. The key to being a great Protoss player is to avoid the known situations where Rax is superior, and exploit the situations where gateway is superior. Blizzard has given the Protoss player 3 seperate mechanics to create this cost efficient situations, and is it on the Onus of you the Protoss player to find and exploit these "hidden gems"

The best way to locate these is to know "when" gateway units can be cost efficient. The easiest discovery is when 2 marines or 1 marauder is Immobile, it cannot defeat 1 zealot. When mobile, a Marauder with CC can comfortably beat 2 zealots and 2 marines can comfortably beat 1 zealot. Therefore it stands to reason that situations where Bio is mobile are not desirable and therefore should be avoided. The Mechanic Gateway units have in order to achieve this state is Forcefield, therefore One should always be aware how many forcefields are required to create this immobile state, and to avoid positions where you are lacking in the energy required to have the number necessary.

The second mechanic Protoss has to increase efficiency is Gaurdian Shield. This decreases damage from ranged units by 2 in the AoE. 2 little known effects of the spell that you should know is that firstly, when one of your units IE (zealot) is in Melee range of a ranged unit (Roach/Marine etc) GS buff does not apply. The good news is this is usually a small percentage of total range fire that isnt applied to. the bad news is that it still sux ranged units turn into melee one (xD). Secondly the Radius of GS is only 4. while the Attack range of the Sentry is 5, Thus in order for the GS effect you MUST move your sentry closer to your zealot line. Attack moving will rarely give you the effect that you paid for with 75 energy.

The third mechanic has to do with Warp In, because you can literally Warp In units as is needed to create your desired situations IE Zealots to be hit by Marauders, Sentry if you need more ff to make them Immobile etc.

To put this into real numbers

1 zealot vs 2 mobile marines - Marines win with no damage taken
1 zealot vs 2 immobile marines - Zealot wins with 72/100 total hp left
1 zealot vs 2 immobile marines under the effect of GS - Zealot wins with 87/100 total hp left

This has many ramifications that have already been widely explored by most top level players. Namely MC's GSL runs were largely based on this type of play using a large amount of gateway units in combination, full wall forcefields to apply "immobile", Gaurdian shield to further increase positive efficiency and bang Terran player is busted. However both Terran/Zerg have methods to heavily decrease the efficiency of these gateway timings Namely 400 HP repairable bunkers and Spinecrawlers. That is why we rarely see Mass gateway timings at higher level play but the same principles my be used in a defensive manner in order to tech to more cost efficient units like the Colossus.

I originally wanted to type much more but Sc2 is such a complex game that even with this blatant summary I havent even begun to touch on the game as a whole. That said I would also like to give away a little secret i've been holding on to for a long time.

Colossus - This unit has gotten a bad rap for being attack move, no skill required terribad unit that ruined the game. However that is not quite the case as is believed. Here are the currently accepted short comings of the Colossus

- Line Splash is easy to manipulate by your opponent moving single units forward to absorb all the Line and thus decreasing Colossus DPS immensely

- Colossus is Too Expensive to harass

- Colossus does not respond well to higher skill levels like other units such as Ghosts/Marines.

Firstly, Line splash manipulation adds more skill to the game and does not necessarily make the Colossus underpowered. Unlike is believed The colossus should be Micro'd and responds well to micro. When your opponent moves units forward/backward to avoid Line splash, it is your responsibility to manually select a Target thwarting your opponents attempt altogether. Mind altering i know.

Secondly The colossus is indeed very expensive to be used in a Harassing why, however sometimes it is worth the risk to Cliff walk and take a few workers out of a mineral line. Secondly with the new WP buff dropping a colossus with WP has alot less risk involved.

Thirdly the secret i've been sitting on for quite a while is the way the Line splash mechanic works. In general the colossus is limited to 5 Small units OR 3 Medium/Large units. However The fun happens when I say that the Depth of the Splash beam is somewhat influenced by the Size of the unit it is targeting. This means that in Attack move mode, your colossus will only attack the front 5 marines increasing Colossus dps by x5. However, If there is a Larger unit mixed in with the Marines IE a Marauder, and you Manually FF the Marauder, Your Beam Depth becomes widened to include 2 Rows of marines rather than 1 row. This can effectively Double your Splash DPS under the right Circumstances allowing you to hit 10 units at a time.

Another method to dramatically increase Colossus DPS is to FF "in" units that is to force Many units into less space than is required in total by the unit. This allows you to circumvent the normal 5/3 Maximum as well because even if the Line splash can only hit 3 Marauders wide/deep, If 7 marauders are in 3 marauder's Area because of Forcefield, Then all 7 Marauders will be hit at the same time.

Perfect is smart, Perfect is gosu but Pokebunny is the better Sc2 player overall cause his Zerg is stronger Afk. Also David Kim plz don't nerf me.

***
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
November 14 2011 05:18 GMT
#2
5/5 Great apology letter with some good insight into protoss vs terran.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
SCPlato
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States249 Posts
November 14 2011 05:24 GMT
#3
Really cool idea for a showmatch. I wonder if people will do similar stuff in the future. Glad to see you kept to the deal and wrote the apology blog.
All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince. -Plato
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
November 14 2011 06:25 GMT
#4
Hey, no one is perfect.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
November 14 2011 06:36 GMT
#5
Most strategically useful and actually apologetic apology letter I've seen.

Some parts of this letter could be put into the strat forum and it wouldn't be out of place.

(Races are different and have strengths and weaknesses and you should utilise them in ways that are suitable to their strengths? OMG REVELATION)
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
WickedSkies
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Netherlands81 Posts
November 14 2011 07:47 GMT
#6
All I could read is that two marines can kill a zealot comfortably. Toss players sure are patronizing. Good apology though it eventually became a weird mixture between balance discussion and a toss guide. Gj sir
Drone chasing probe, Tasteless quietly watching (Artosis)
Allied
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States129 Posts
November 14 2011 07:55 GMT
#7
amazing blog / apology/ etc
twitter: @AlliieD
surfinbird1
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany999 Posts
November 14 2011 08:42 GMT
#8
That's one hell of an apology. Very insightful, especially the part about the Colossus splash, didn't know that.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
November 14 2011 09:04 GMT
#9
meh, as a protoss player i normally avoid talking about balance to make sure that people dont associate with all the TZ QQ-er out there :-/

Instead of thinking about balance, its better to think about how to constantly improve your mechanic to win under any circumstances is always better. The game wont be balance in the next 3 years until the Protoss expansion come out. And even then there still nothing to guarantee that it will be balance.

BW is balance yeah? with Terran domination across the board? Please... However the latest OSL winner is JangBi who play the race with the least tournament result for the last 3 years (protoss).
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
ESPRITsc
Profile Joined April 2011
200 Posts
November 14 2011 09:18 GMT
#10
On November 14 2011 15:25 Alur wrote:
Hey, no one is perfect.

That made me laugh.

Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 14 2011 09:47 GMT
#11
bwahah, good effort. Nice apology!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
RuMCaKe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States559 Posts
November 14 2011 11:06 GMT
#12
<3
twitter.com/RuMCaKeS
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
November 14 2011 14:48 GMT
#13
everybody makes mistakes... everybody has those days
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
dde
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada796 Posts
November 14 2011 15:21 GMT
#14
i thought this was about apology letter to community for whining too hard about balances. All i see is balance qqing.
yes
VTArlock
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1763 Posts
November 14 2011 15:40 GMT
#15
O god dude, I can't believe you actually did this lol. I talked to him on facebook a few days after those matches and he said something along the lines of "I shouldn't even make him write it because I lost in both TvP AND PvT".
LULZ
Why?
VTPerfect
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States487 Posts
November 17 2011 01:23 GMT
#16
On November 15 2011 00:21 dde wrote:
i thought this was about apology letter to community for whining too hard about balances. All i see is balance qqing.


dde your such a troll
Fuhrmaaj
Profile Joined January 2011
167 Posts
November 17 2011 03:41 GMT
#17
On November 15 2011 00:21 dde wrote:
i thought this was about apology letter to community for whining too hard about balances. All i see is balance qqing.


If this is serious, I agree. The initial paragraph is 136 words, including the two sentences which are the premise and not the apology. I don't mind a balance discussion or a discussion of matchup balance, but that could be posted in a separate thread?
Random player
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill Weekly #213
CranKy Ducklings107
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 225
ProTech91
trigger 61
EnDerr 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 38614
Calm 5255
EffOrt 1463
firebathero 1232
Shuttle 1090
actioN 728
Hyuk 636
Stork 542
Mini 459
ZerO 436
[ Show more ]
Larva 300
Zeus 231
Rush 144
hero 106
Light 86
Sea.KH 76
ToSsGirL 52
Barracks 48
Yoon 36
sorry 36
Nal_rA 35
[sc1f]eonzerg 28
sSak 18
scan(afreeca) 16
Terrorterran 15
Noble 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
SilentControl 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
HiyA 6
ivOry 3
Dota 2
Gorgc6228
qojqva2685
XcaliburYe318
syndereN286
boxi98129
Counter-Strike
olofmeister3418
fl0m1774
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0533
Westballz44
Other Games
hiko1371
FrodaN685
crisheroes447
Fuzer 414
DeMusliM331
elazer163
Lowko157
XaKoH 127
Liquid`VortiX115
djWHEAT67
KnowMe48
QueenE44
ZerO(Twitch)27
Trikslyr20
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8462
StarCraft 2
WardiTV1138
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 35
• Michael_bg 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 898
League of Legends
• Nemesis10888
• Jankos2316
• TFBlade646
Upcoming Events
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
3h 58m
Korean StarCraft League
11h 58m
SOOP
17h 58m
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
18h 58m
WardiTV Invitational
19h 58m
Cheesadelphia
23h 58m
CSO Cup
1d 1h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 2h
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
1d 16h
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.