Ok, so no, my dream isn't exactly a glamorous one (or maybe it is?). But I just felt like blogging some of my life. I'm not really writing this for people to read, for people to find it cool. I'm writing this for me, because this is something important to me.
You know, because who is BrTarolg?
My name comes from Glorat, which is Tarolg backwards, who is my brother. Br stands for brother. It used to be BrGlorat but then i got bullied a lot in an online game which my brother was really good at (enough that his name was instantly recognized) so i changed it to Tarolg to be more discreet haha
Pretty much i've spent the whole of my life being insecure and looking for purpose. Heavily laden with autistic/aspergers tendencies and other socially awkward factors, life for me has been a continuous struggle of finding things which I think I could be good at, and quickly peaking or being frustrated at my inability to improve.
Pretty much most of my life social interactions suffered because these things were secondary compared to "getting good" at stuff. Whether that be academic, health, gaming or a whole bunch of other things.
So I spent the first 10 (!!!) years of my school life in a private, all male school, which totally wrecked me. I didn't fit in at all during these years. Fortunately, it was a fairly well run school, you get good grades and in some ways, kids there were trained to be mature. In the same way, they are trained to be extremely socially manipulative and game playing arrogant. Safe to say these were fairly depressing years of my life. I never really achieved anything (I wasn't smart enough to get better grades than the smart kids). There were a few things though that kept me going. Firstly, around the age of 14 I started kyokushin karate. For those of you who don't know what this is, this isn't some pussies mcdojo. This is ultra-hardcore karate, and it is freakin tough. All of the fitness and health I have today started here. I have to give thanks to my teacher, Hanshi Steve Arneil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Arneil It was an absolute honor and privilege to be taught by him. He is a really down to earth guy. When i asked why the highest ranked and most well respected kyokushin practioner in the world wasted his time teaching a few kids in a school (for what wasn't that much money!) - He said that he believes in tutoring the youth because they are the future. I believe to this day he still runs a dojo in greater london, though he is getting old. Trust me when I say you don't want to fight this guy. He was the second person to ever complete the 100 man kumite, probably one of the most brutal trials you could ever face. When you ask him about it all he will do is furrow his brow and tell you "it took me 2 and 3 quarter hours. My teacher told me that it would be faster and easier to knock out the guys I was fighting - that way i could have a little rest in between rounds"
I still remember to this day when we had a tournament in our school, and one of the kids got totally whacked on the face (non contact tournament btw, so opponent was disqualified) and the poor kid looked like he had his nose dislodged and couldn't see from the mass of tears falling from his face because of the pain In a pure karate kid moment he conjured up some kind of magic and literally thwacked him in the face with his fist, and we all stood around and were like WTF DID YOU JUST DO, and the kid got up and said he felt better. He told us to keep it quiet because he wasn't supposed to do that. I will never understand exactly what happened or what he did
Fast forward to uni, so I did a degree in Maths. Where i studied, my lecturers focused particularly on pure maths, and I was a fool and picked my subjects very un-tactically, and chose to study the following topics: Group theory, group theory, algebraic topology, algebraic number theory, more group theory, functional analysis, and group theory For those of you who have no idea about maths, lets just say this is not a set of subjects you should pick if you want to pass your uni and get a degree. Somehow, after a lot of pain and studying, I managed to get a 2:1.
So throughout this time, I had dreams and stuff. I wanted to be good at starcraft, at poker, at games. I did alright, i got to high masters on EU and NA (and beat a bunch of GM's on SEA) (you know, back when protoss got nerfed like 6 patches in a row making them the strongest race) I made some in poker, and did pretty well in staking (which i still do to this day in my spare time with my business partner) I played a whole host of games, trying to be the best in whatever i could until the effort became too much. This was a common theme however, - at some point i realized that i couldn't actually be the best (or rather, get good enough to satisfy me - i never actually want to BE the ABSOLUTE best - but i wanted to be good for sure) at all of these things, and then i became demotivated and quit. The result of this was that at all the things i ever tried/had a go at, i would learn at an incredibly fast rate (i went from being D- in broodwar to sitting near the top of the ladder within a few weeks of beta in SC2). Anything i tried people would tell me "wow how the fuck did you learn that so fast" - and at the same time i would quickly get bored and my "skill" would wane and stagnate. This feature has constantly plagued me and made me feel like a lazy asshole because i couldn't conjure up the effort to work hard at something.
Throughout my uni and school life, i've been doing finance related work and internships (mainly at some of the bulge bracket institutions) - why? Because i thought "this will help me succeed and get good at life" - it felt like i was adding purpose to the long list of things i had to be good at. Somewhere along the line I became interested in trading (who doesn't?) - soon i spent more and more time reading bloomberg, reading the news, scouring for free research, networking and talking to real traders anywhere i could. I had the hunger, the hunger to be good. I wanted to be good at trading. Is it the money? Not really, i've never had financial issues in my life. Not only do i recieve support from my parents, but i'm a very frugal person who spends in a very utilitarian way, and i've made more than enough from poker.
Eventually i decided to do a masters course which is quantitatively heavy and finance orientated, because i thought this would help my chances of securing a position in trading. I wanted to be one of the guys who understood everything about markets, and understood them so well that I would be the guy that would have an edge over everyone else.
Then come august. From my own research, i knew it was coming. You guys should know its coming too. The financial system, particularly in europe, is coming into a meltdown. I've seen the EFSF package, it's not going to work. It stinks of everything bad about CDO's in 2008, repackaged and leveraged to make it look fancy. Quickly they are going to find out that it's not going to work, and they can't make money appear from thin air without printing it. Since 2008, banking has been a shit sector to work in. The hours are long - i had it easy, i did 50-55 avg hour weeks with weekends off as an intern - i knew plenty of interns who did standard 65, and a few corp finance interns who averaged 90-95 hours a week. I knew one girl who was doing an absolutely brutal 110 hours a week, 16 hours a day 7 days a week. One guy described to me the "taxi around the roundabout" schedule - he had worked from 6am the previous day, all the way to 6am the next day, (work pays for his taxi home) - he then asks the taxi driver to do a few roundabouts whilst he goes in to take a shower, comes right back out and drives straight back to work again. As markets deteriorate (and btw, they will) situations and work are only going to get tougher and worse. Not only that, your pay won't get better, and your job prospects won't get better either. This is a time of cutting and firing. Over the years i've gotten to network and know a lot of traders personally, some who are incredibly successful. No matter how many contacts i have, no matter how well suited i am for the job, every single bank is slashing its jobs like crazy. One trader described it simply like this: "times have changed. Bonuses arn't good anymore - I don't know why people complain about us, we work so fucking hard and we don't get paid for it. I don't even know whether i'll have a job next year. Banks have these fancy internships and grad programmes, and everyone want's in - what people don't realise is that they are selling a pipe dream."
About a year and a bit ago, one of my friends dropped out of uni and went to work for a prop trading firm. I told him he was totally crazy, and it had to be a scam. Indeed, i did some research, and there are a lot of scams out there. It turns out the place he went to was absolutely legitimate, and probably one of the best places to goto. Personally, i thought he wouldn't last three months. He had very little interest in finance, was pretty mediocre at poker, and all he wanted was the money. However, what i didn't realise is - here is a guy who has none of the knowledge, none of the thirst i have. And yet hes going to do exactly what i want to do. Today hes one of the extremely fortunate few to have been able to profit a fairly decent amount within his first year. Most guys in prop firms tend to be breakeven in the first year, its the coming years after that get good. He has put his heart and soul into it, and he is incredibly sharp about markets. I feel absolutely embarrassed discussing markets with him, his knowledge and logic is incredibly precise nowadays.
Then, a guy i knew in one of my internships turned down his offer to work at a bulge bracket, and started work in another prop firm. Not quite as good as the first one, but still a reputable firm with a legitimate programme. At this point i was still skeptical, but within a few months he was absolutely loving it. Hes an incredibly smart, hard working guy, but i would have never seen him as a trader. Yet already, hes doing exactly what i've wanted to do for years.
To go into the standards for this industry, let me explain - Prop shops consist of either scams or legit places. Scams claim to teach people how to trade, will charge punters hefty sums of money for "training" (rando shit you can find on the internet) and once you complete this "training" will then encourage you to invest your own money to trade. These places usually die out very quickly, scam a few guys and then let them burn their accounts up. Legit places usually provide desks for seasoned traders, doing a commission deal with the exchanges, and they also run training programmes where they cover all desk fees and training costs (and sometimes even pay a small salary). Then once you're done, if you're good enough, you get a company funded account with a certain profit split and go live. They will continue to support you until you start becoming good and being profitable. If you suck, you get fired (quickly)
When my friend started working in a prop firm, it was the last straw for me. For years and years, i had been delaying. I was always so insecure about myself, trying to be "good" at things, and then becoming lazy quickly and never realizing my full potential. University and a masters degree to me, was simply a delaying tactic. It was something that seemed "good to do" and had no real purpose to it.
I recently got an offer at a prop firm, one of the better ones. I start work next week. I'll be working 12 hours a day. No holidays (except maybe christmas/new years and some public holidays when markets are closed) I've dropped out of uni to do this. I got a degree, i don't need a masters anymore I'm not going to be a trader in a big bank, trying to get my big bonus every year Probably, i won't make any money in my first year. For the next 12 months, i'm likely to be breakeven or worse, like a failed, skilless uni graduate.
But for the first time in my life, i'm cutting the nets. I don't have the safety of "oh, i'll just do this for another year" - "its ok, i've still got time to work it all out" This is me going all in on life. The risks are high - the vast majority of people who try this, fail. These kinds of places don't look good on your CV if you want to work for a financial institution. If you do change - they might ask why you dropped out - if you quit it basically means you wern't good enough. For the first time, i am going to do something i REALLY want to do. I never wanted to work in a big bank. I never wanted to make vast sums of money (even though i will). I never wanted to do a degree, do a masters. All i wanted to do was find the one thing i could really be good at, and get good at it and make it my passion. All i wanted to do is trade.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
i'm sorry to dumb down the passion that seeps from your blog (which is amazing btw), but i haven't really understand very much of what goes on in the trading profession. my sister is a senior accountant, my brother a physiotherapist, and my parents coming from very different working backgrounds have all retired and begun trading day in and day out. maybe it's because of this sort of commitment my parents have that '...working 12 hours a day' strikes me as a particularly interesting bit. i know i would never be able to look at numbers and information for so long or speak about businesses that tie into every-day life. i would personally rather not look forward to making large sums of money for the sake of wanting the money.
but.. i really think you have given yourself so much realism that it's entirely reasonable to see you doing well, even if it will be your first year, and even if nearly everyone is doomed to doing poorly. even aside from that sort of 'success' i can see you being happy during the process. this is all from my magic 8-ball-of-gut-feeling. so. good luck to you; dedication, love, hope, and faith are all what dreams are made of!
On November 08 2011 11:54 nanaoei wrote: i'm sorry to dumb down the passion that seeps from your blog (which is amazing btw), but i haven't really understand very much of what goes on in the trading profession. my sister is a senior accountant, my brother a physiotherapist, and my parents coming from very different working backgrounds have all retired and begun trading day in and day out. maybe it's because of this sort of commitment my parents have that '...working 12 hours a day' strikes me as a particularly interesting bit. i know i would never be able to look at numbers and information for so long or speak about businesses that tie into every-day life. i would personally rather not look forward to making large sums of money for the sake of wanting the money.
but.. i really think you have given yourself so much realism that it's entirely reasonable to see you doing well, even if it will be your first year, and even if nearly everyone is doomed to doing poorly. even aside from that sort of 'success' i can see you being happy during the process. this is all from my magic 8-ball-of-gut-feeling. so. good luck to you; dedication, love, hope, and faith are all what dreams are made of!
This is a really awesome reply. Most replies you see on TL are pretty lack luster, but this was a great post... good for conversation and it shows you read and understood the blog. Good stuff :D Keep up the good posting!
that's all I have to say Sorry for the bad reply I just felt the need to say how awesome that comment was ;D
that's quite an interesting story you have. I always find it awesome when you learn something real about the people you've interacted with over the internet. It reminds me that these are real people who have had real problems and real struggles and aren't just some random people who happen to be on the same website as you. Always nice to view strangers from the internet in a new perspective.
as for your dreams, I must admit I am quite ignorant about trading and financial jobs, but I do realize this is just the start for you. I hope you succeed in achieving your dreams; mine are still far out of reach.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
I love this. I really really really love this post, was great to read and enlightening. I must same, i'm the exact same way. I know exactly how you feel, that urge and drive to be the best at absolutely everything you do, although i think i had it easier in that i have the traits necessary, so i think i can relate to how you feel a little bit. All i can say is that i wish you the absolute best in following your dreams! It takes a hell of a man to do what you're doing.
Really inspiring stuff. I can especially appreciate you sharing your inner dialogue and letting us all get a peek at your self-awareness and aspirations.
"So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession."
Yea fuck everyone else right? I admire your work ethic mate, but I wish you'd apply it to something else. We dont need more "scum", i think we have enough as is.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
On November 08 2011 11:54 nanaoei wrote: i'm sorry to dumb down the passion that seeps from your blog (which is amazing btw), but i haven't really understand very much of what goes on in the trading profession. my sister is a senior accountant, my brother a physiotherapist, and my parents coming from very different working backgrounds have all retired and begun trading day in and day out. maybe it's because of this sort of commitment my parents have that '...working 12 hours a day' strikes me as a particularly interesting bit. i know i would never be able to look at numbers and information for so long or speak about businesses that tie into every-day life. i would personally rather not look forward to making large sums of money for the sake of wanting the money.
but.. i really think you have given yourself so much realism that it's entirely reasonable to see you doing well, even if it will be your first year, and even if nearly everyone is doomed to doing poorly. even aside from that sort of 'success' i can see you being happy during the process. this is all from my magic 8-ball-of-gut-feeling. so. good luck to you; dedication, love, hope, and faith are all what dreams are made of!
Prop trading is essentially trading equities, options, derivatives, foreign currencies or essentially anything which through superior foresight one believes they can get an advantage over the market and make money. Day trading is taking small positions that are usually closed out at the end of a business day to help mitigate risk. Usually traders will be trading on margin meaning that they trade with borrowed money.
To get an advantage often they use statistical analysis and or fundamental analysis (looking into the fundamentals of a company and basing their decisions on that, this is how warren buffet invests). It is extremely risky and due to the random walk theory something that is theoretically (and statistically according to many economist) improbable to be successful at over the long run.
I used to trade options and did alright at it (i was short lehman, yay) but the more i looked into it the more it looked like a circus held up by the statistical outliers that actually were successful in the markets. Still, there are people that are very successful doing this and i do still hold to the belief that if general macro-orientated (teehee) principles are held in high regard one can do reasonably well.
I hope that did not come across as negative, i wish the best of luck to to OP!
Man I love this quote "All i wanted to do was find the one thing i could really be good at, and get good at it and make it my passion." Can I get your name or how you wish to be called so I can credit you when I melt some faces with this knowledge?
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
On November 08 2011 13:29 Roe wrote: Just a short question but why would you want to become something like that?
The point wasn't to be passionate about a specific thing, the point was to have a passion. To have something to excel at, it doesn't really matter what he's doing.
This reminds me so much of my own life. Did martial arts growing up( not as hardcore ), went to college because "that's what you do after high school". Always overshadowed by my siblings, the athletic and creative ones. Through a random chance I got a job halfway across the country to make games. Dropped out and followed it and it's the best decision I've ever made. Follow that dream, chase it as long as you can until it's not feasible and then some. There's something to be said for doing what you want to do not what you should be doing.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
I used to have sort of determination, then I... well I'm not sure what happened.
On November 08 2011 13:29 Roe wrote: Just a short question but why would you want to become something like that?
The point wasn't to be passionate about a specific thing, the point was to have a passion. To have something to excel at, it doesn't really matter what he's doing.
Hmmm, it sort of does, doesn't it? I mean, if all the OP wants is to excel at something, to be passionate about it, blabla... why not pick something good/useful ? Like, he could do research in medicine, become a hero firefighter, or a musician, or make beautiful handmade knives, like this guy ?? I dunno, there are SO much good to do in this world if you're willing to work a lot... why pick trading?
i thought that bulge brackets look for really socially developed people, which doesnt seem to be you from reading the op. How exactly did you get the job there?
I trained Kyokushin for 7 years then went Muay Thai and u have no idea, Kyokushin became pussy-camp in my eyes after training MT.
Overall your post looks like kid that just hyped himself and found reality beside fantasy. That's normal for me and u had to do a post with history of it.
On November 08 2011 13:29 Roe wrote: Just a short question but why would you want to become something like that?
The point wasn't to be passionate about a specific thing, the point was to have a passion. To have something to excel at, it doesn't really matter what he's doing.
Hmmm, it sort of does, doesn't it? I mean, if all the OP wants is to excel at something, to be passionate about it, blabla... why not pick something good/useful ? Like, he could do research in medicine, become a hero firefighter, or a musician, or make beautiful handmade knives, like this guy ?? I dunno, there are SO much good to do in this world if you're willing to work a lot... why pick trading?
I don't think it's possible for someone to simply pick a field that they believe is of particular worth to society and apply themselves to it. The OP has apparently found his passion. He can't simply take the inspiration and motivation that he's feeling right now and use it to fuel the fight against cancer or what have you. Passion doesn't work like that - you've gotta' focus on that unique feeling that you get when involved in a particular thing and follow it. Best of luck OP, invest every part of yourself into what it is you want to do. Don't let this post become nothing more than the result of fleeting and spontaneous motivation - make it reality.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
Because in the stock markets, the other investors who you steal ladder points money from are not unwilling innocent victims.
True though, trading is mostly zero-sum and traders could contribute so much more to society with their intelligence, but greed wins in the end, and I wish the OP well.
Damn man, good luck, I'll be looking for updates from you. I'm still too chicken shit to cut my nets. Maybe sometime in the next few years. Or the year after that. Or the year after that.
No offense, but I find this entire thread extremely ironic.
Wall Street is made of people like this. And I'm not saying this in a bad way. I mean that a majority of people on Wall Street are as hard working, as driven, and as passionate as this guy, and he acknowledges that. And then we laud this guy.
Yet the next day we go back to criticizing Wall Street for trying to be as successful as they can within the rules that they play in.
World of irony.
I wish people could just wake up and realize that the people on Wall Street under criticism are mostly passionate people who have incredible work ethic and sacrifice their lives in order to achieve their goals and own successes... and that the problem lies in regulation, not with Wall Street themselves. Literally, the people who "gambled away our economy" are EXACTLY like the OP: prop traders, hedge funds, investment management shops. Repeat, EXACTLY. Yet people never realize that that is exactly the way the economy needs to work in order to grow... the problem exists because of a huge number of small problems invisible at the individual level that compounds into an enormous crisis. And it's not like these people TAKE the money from you and gamble them. They are eagerly GIVEN the money IN ORDER to gamble with it. In summary, it's like if someone gave you a few $100 bills at a door at a Vegas Casino and asked you to go gamble and try and make as much money as you could. It's not their fault that they're gambling it, because they're paid to gamble.
On November 08 2011 11:32 BrTarolg wrote: The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
This hurts to read, really. That paragraph... I've been there, I've done that... I ended up in a deep dark depressed hole after about 5 years of working my absolute ass off (indie games) and getting nowhere, I lost friends, I alienated family, I ended up in a shit load (excuse my french) of debt.
And then in a strange twist of fate, everything I ever worked on was lost in a bushfire. It was the exact opposite of my dreams (which were just to make enough money off indie games to be able to continue making indie games )
You are right though, the key to success is working hard, I agree, but from what I've learnt, it is not the end all be all, and IT DOES HURT when shit goes pear-shaped after years of working hard. I can't imagine anything in life hurts (apart from loss of family) as much as admitting defeat when you have gone all in on life on something that doesn't work out.
I'm not saying you wont be successful, in fact from the things you have done, the people you know, your knowledge of your industry, I'm almost certain you will be. But be careful with the "all I need to do is work hard to be successful" mantra.
the best way to work hard as a goal is to not tell anybody about it. telling people about your goals and your intentions will most likely squish them as you'll already feel a sort of accomplishment.. or something like that. I read something about that.
Thanks for the great blog - your passion was infectious while reading, but I have to admit that I cannot condone your dream when comparing it to my life.
I work as a software developer for major banks and insurance companies around Europe, and have done my fair share of 60+ hour weeks when approaching major deadlines as all programmers have. But I also maintain a decent work life balance by being home based when I am not on site with a client, and enjoying that time with my wonderful family. You make absolutely no mention of what your life at home is like, or whether you actually have any life outside of work at all!
Trading sounds like it will suit your personality as a driven and focussed individual, but you WILL burn out after a few years and it will put the rest of your life into sharp relief when you suddenly realise you have nothing else. The same thing happened to me in 2007 after a long hard stint at a Swiss bank - when I finally finished I realised I had no friends, no girlfriend and I was living in a bedsit like a hermit even though I was pulling in £100k+ a year. It took me a long time to come out of the hole I had worked myself into and sort out my personal life outside of my job.
I wish you all the success in the world, but I hope that when you are done that you can come to realise that there is more to life than work!
Hey guys. Wow, the response to this has been absolutely phenomenal. For years i've been writing little tidbits here and there (mostly random crap in the ADT), sometimes something i felt was insightful, but i've never quite had a response like this - I even got spotlighted! (tick off one "todo" thing on TL)
I thought i'd use my next few posts to make some responses to some of the stuff thats been posted here. A general theme seems to be "why trading, why not something more useful" and that "traders are scum/bad for society etc." The first one is pretty simple - it's kinda the same reason i got into poker. Its a mass multiplayer computer game (prop houses are commonly called arcades ) where the goal is to get the highest score (ladder points). In simple terms, i just enjoy it. Some people thrive in an environment where they interact with people, feel like they are making a difference etc. Some people thrive in an environment where they are left to their own devices to do their own thing. Trading isn't for everyone. Even at that point, traders come from different walks of life and all sorts of different traders do different kinds of things.
A lot of hate at traders and financial institutions i feel comes from a few reasons. Probably the biggest reason is its "unfair" that these guys make vast sums of money, more than everyone else. Actually, trading is just a meritocratic system. If you're good and work hard, you get paid more. Most of life works like this. If you wanna be an ultra-billionaire, don't get into trading, just be an entrepreneur and startup some companies instead. Trading pays out exactly how much you are worth, no more no less. This is quite something if you think about it - there are plenty of professions which pay out way more absurd sums of money - footballers, musicians, being born on an oil field.
Probably the greatest reason is that people don't actually understand what trading IS. So let me help you out a little bit here. In economic theory there is something known as the efficient market hypothesis. That is, markets (and in many ways, life) is efficient. If you had the choice to farm on 2 patches of land, you'd pick the cheaper one. That's why farms exist in the countryside, where land is cheap, and you don't see any farms in the middle of the city, no matter how fertile the soil there is. It's because somebody else will get more utility out of that city land than the farmer and is willing to pay more for it. Traders and markets are pretty much the epitome of the efficient market - traders MAKE markets happen. And markets have to happen - people rarely understand just how important markets are to the world's growth and success. Traders can make markets because they are not perfectly efficient, there's mispricing or risk premia to be had.
The thing is, trading will always be there, because its not some magical financial construct poofed from thin air, but it's actually a genuine profession. Think about a fishmongers - they sell fish. They get the fish from the port, buy it at a low price, and then sell it at a high price to you guys. Somewhere along the line, someone sees this as a good idea, and does exactly the same thing, but prices it slightly lower, and still makes money. This process eventually repeats itself until people have priced the fish exactly what its worth (usually, the convenience of going to a fishmonger as opposed to buying a fishing rod and getting the fish yourself) This is great for the consumer - he gets fairly priced fish. If there were only a few fishmongers, they could charge arbitrarily high prices. Trading is basically this. Everyone is a trader. Have you ever wanted to buy a house? You're going long the housing market. Are you gonna buy your house when its cheap or expensive? Of course you want to buy it when it's cheap - and when is this? Right after a recession of course! Recessions happen because markets are full of inefficiencies and stuff is overpriced more than it should be. And people don't just buy houses, they sell houses. They sell houses when prices are high, and then buy then when prices are low. Sound familiar? And what is the result? People get fairly priced housing. Sometimes, this isn't the case, for example, the housing bubble. Now, traders didnt' "cause" the housing bubble. What caused the bubble is that people tried to spend more than they had, artificially inflating the price. All the traders were trying to sell houses during the bubble because they knew that they were overpriced. However, the bubble was caused by normal, regular, non traders, being very greedy and trying to buy houses when they couldn't afford it. Traders didn't cause the price of houses to go up and then crash, YOU did. Normal, regular people created a huge inefficiency in the market, and some (smart) traders made an absolute killing from the fallout - the bigger the inefficiency, the more money there is to be made!
So fast forward to modern day trading, all full of funky derivatives and electronics. You might say "all that stuff above you talked about, thats OK, but this electronic derivative, that CANT be good for us" All derivatives are constructed the way they are because there is a demand for them. Futures and options and other crazy things exist because people want them, because there is market inefficiency and they help fix that.
Billions and trillions are traded over futures markets every day, and its a zero sum game (unlike stock's which aren't). It's the hunting ground for many prop shops and can be seen as a bunch of guys gambling against each other. What people don't realize and forget is that, futures markets are there for a reason. Futures exchanges were originally created as a way of finding an efficient way to sell things like commodities - wheat, corn, cattle, iron, copper etc. In fact, a lot of modern day agriculture wouldn't be able to survive without these things. For example - a wheat farmer needs to make a certain amount of money to survive, say 100$ a year. He farms enough to make 150$ of wheat a year, so he is mostly safe, but the price of wheat changes. No, not because nasty traders are manipulating the price of wheat, but because demand goes up and down in a normal world. Sometimes theres a drought, sometimes theres a particularly good harvest. Bread might go out of fashion, etc.etc. Now, the price of wheat is expected to be higher than 150$ a year, but hes worried - wheat is a very fickle commodity, and the price goes up and down a lot - for example, that 150$ might rely on the fact that a lot of wheat farmers around the world are going to face a drought, pushing up the price of wheat. However, if one year, magically not a single place on the world has a drought, and all of a sudden theres too much wheat in the market and it sells for 90$ - he loses his home!
A future is a contract or agreement that allows you to sell your wheat at some pre-determined price in the future. If the price of wheat right now is high, a wheat farmer can short a futures contract, locking in the price. He won't benefit from the potential upside of wheat prices going through the roof, but he secures himself from losing his home. He might only short enough futures to make that 100$, and leave the rest of the wheat to float, because he thinks the price in general is going up. Now, one of you might say - but what if HE suffers a drought, then not only does he lose his wheat, but he has to sell wheat he doesn't have! What happens in this case is he has to buy wheat at the market price and sell it at the futures price, losing EVEN MORE money (evil traders!) Then in comes the option! An option allows you to pay a premium to have the OPTION to buy/sell wheat in the future at a certain pre-agreed price. Not only can the farmer lock in the price of wheat, but if his wheat disappears, he doesn't lose out. Then from here, come even more complex derivatives which i won't go into. Either way, derivatives exist because there is a demand for them - someone out there finds them useful. A trader's job is to make these derivatives happen, and create a market for it so that you can trade it!
Ultimately, traders make sure the price is fair. If the price is unfair, that isn't the traders fault, that's YOUR fault. The housing bubble was caused by regular people becoming greedy. The tech bubble was caused by normal people throwing all their money into stocks at wild abandon without any concern for actually what a fair price is (all the good traders knew it was overpriced!) The eurozone crisis? Traders didn't "cause" it. Greedy governments who thought they could liive beyond their means did. Its the people that voted them in. All the normal people were greedy and wanted big houses and a comfortable lifestyle, and they said they were going to vote out a government who wouldn't give them that. In the UK, people are scathing and hate our prime minister (David Cameron) because hes making cuts to the public sector and being evil and taking money from the poor. Actually, the UK is going to do well in this next recession - why? Because we MADE these cuts in time. Somehow as British people, we managed to accept we shouldn't spend more than we have, and the government enacted it as such - we the British people, voted in Cameron knowing that this was what we needed for our country The rest of Europe however, didn't seem to catch this drift. Their governments were pressured to live beyond their means, and so thats exactly what they got. They borrowed money they didn't have, and started spending it, and now it's catching up on them.
And so the Eurozone is the next big inefficiency. My job as a trader is to make that market, and find a fair price for Europe. You're not gonna like it, and i'm gonna make an absolute killing off it. But my job is to make sure the prices are fair for everyone, and its traders that allow the world to function efficiently and globally.
----
Ok, so i replied with another wall of text. Hey that's my style i guess, i have a lot of things to say. I'm only ever satisfied if i feel like i've covered enough so that the post has logic and makes reasonable sense
To save yourself (and myself) from more of these walls, i'll just make a poll of what i should write next
I can either answer some questions and make some more responses to individual posts in this thread OR I can tell some evil, controversial trader stories that will blow your mind
I'll probably do both at some point but one first. Give you the illusion of choice
Poll: What now?
Tell me evil controversial trader story! (20)
74%
Answer questions in thread (7)
26%
27 total votes
Your vote: What now?
(Vote): Answer questions in thread (Vote): Tell me evil controversial trader story!
On November 08 2011 13:13 cmgillett wrote: "So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession."
Yea fuck everyone else right? I admire your work ethic mate, but I wish you'd apply it to something else. We dont need more "scum", i think we have enough as is.
Who cares? This is the world we live in. I find it really weird how people look down on the people making a lot of money just because they aren't making that money "in the right way".
If trading is what the guy wants to do why shouldn't he? What else can he "apply" himself to? We're on a forum used by people following ESPORTS in some way or the other. Is it okay to make money playing Starcraft 2? Playing Starcraft 2 does in no way contribute to society.
Same thing with regular sports. What does Wayne Rooney contribute to society? Nothing, and yet he makes obscene amounts of cash for kicking a ball with his feet into a square net.
Sure, they might all be "scum" but then again, I see pretty much every human being as "scum" so I don't really care if some of those "scum" are also rich "scum".
On November 08 2011 19:44 phanto wrote: the best way to work hard as a goal is to not tell anybody about it. telling people about your goals and your intentions will most likely squish them as you'll already feel a sort of accomplishment.. or something like that. I read something about that.
Great Read first of all, but i must agree that kind of passion and all of it applied to financial system, thats is useless and broken and all that had done nothing good for this world. I mean , i admire the way you can sacrifice your free time, sleep and else just to get it done because is your dream, but be carefull about what you wish for. Good luck for you whatever your decision may be, but think about it. Its like the story that compares the life to a cup of cofee, just find in youtube. Thanks for sharing this again.
Great and inspirational read, what saddens me is that you allocated your skills to things that doesn't contribute to society (poker and trading) whereas you say you are not intersted in money, i feel that it would have been better to see a hardworking and talented individual trying to help solving the numerous problems our society are going through today, i'm not saying you should be our savior but at the end of a hardworking day, ask yourself what did you produce.
For some people making money is a sufficient goal in itself, and indeed you can do pretty much everything with enougth money, but since it's not something you are to much into, i am wondering why you didn't choose a field where you quality work doesn't involve gambling with the society
On November 08 2011 20:13 BrTarolg wrote: Trading is basically this. Everyone is a trader. Have you ever wanted to buy a house? You're going long the housing market. Are you gonna buy your house when its cheap or expensive? Of course you want to buy it when it's cheap - and when is this? Right after a recession of course! Recessions happen because markets are full of inefficiencies and stuff is overpriced more than it should be. And people don't just buy houses, they sell houses. They sell houses when prices are high, and then buy then when prices are low. Sound familiar? And what is the result? People get fairly priced housing. Sometimes, this isn't the case, for example, the housing bubble. Now, traders didnt' "cause" the housing bubble. What caused the bubble is that people tried to spend more than they had, artificially inflating the price. All the traders were trying to sell houses during the bubble because they knew that they were overpriced. However, the bubble was caused by normal, regular, non traders, being very greedy and trying to buy houses when they couldn't afford it. Traders didn't cause the price of houses to go up and then crash, YOU did. Normal, regular people created a huge inefficiency in the market, and some (smart) traders made an absolute killing from the fallout - the bigger the inefficiency, the more money there is to be made!
I'll just quote this bit, because it strucks me as the most biased, but before going into a a rant about your post, I'm gonna ask the OP: Have you ever read ANYTHING about non-neoclassical economic theory? Or any economic theory at all? Because you are talking some crazy shit, man.
On November 08 2011 22:08 Marou wrote: Great and inspirational read, what saddens me is that you allocated your skills to things that doesn't contribute to society (poker and trading) whereas you say you are not intersted in money, i feel that it would have been better to see a hardworking and talented individual trying to help solving the numerous problems our society are going through today, i'm not saying you should be our savior but at the end of a hardworking day, ask yourself what did you produce.
For some people making money is a sufficient goal in itself, and indeed you can do pretty much everything with enougth money, but since it's not something you are to much into, i am wondering why you didn't choose a field where you quality work doesn't involve gambling with the society
And if he'd have said that he'd give his all to be great at Starcraft 2, soccer, football, become an actor or a game maker of sorts? None of those "contribute to society" but who the fuck cares? He says several times that it's his dream to do this, who are you guys (I say guys because you're not the only one who does this) to tell him it's a bad choice?
Great and inspirational read, what saddens me is that you allocated your skills to things that doesn't contribute to society (poker and trading) whereas you say you are not intersted in money, i feel that it would have been better to see a hardworking and talented individual trying to help solving the numerous problems our society are going through today, i'm not saying you should be our savior but at the end of a hardworking day, ask yourself what did you produce.
For some people making money is a sufficient goal in itself, and indeed you can do pretty much everything with enougth money, but since it's not something you are to much into, i am wondering why you didn't choose a field where you quality work doesn't involve gambling with the society
And if he'd have said that he'd give his all to be great at Starcraft 2, soccer, football, become an actor or a game maker of sorts? None of those "contribute to society" but who the fuck cares? He says several times that it's his dream to do this, who are you guys (I say guys because you're not the only one who does this) to tell him it's a bad choice?
I'm not telling it's a bad choice, it certainly is a good one, hell he'll be doing what he likes and making a good life of of it, i'm glad for him.
And actually, when you entertain people (through SC2, real sport or any artistic related content), you make the world slightly better with your own tools, providing good times to people that are following you and cheering for you to success.
It's not about what you actually produce for the society, it's about what you bring to the table for everyone while you work. When you play poker or trade, you enter a room where everybody has bring his assets and everybody is trying to take each other assets. I'm sure my view of trading is biaised but i just can't stand the economic state of our society, as people said in this thread this is probably more because of the laws that rule trading rather than the traders making all the harm, but at the end of the day, the trader is pulling the trigger.
This is soo weird I feel like i share a lot of the feelings you had but I havent reached my point of breaking through yet. I would love to hear how this works out for you, I'm sure you will do well. I just woke up and this was a fkcin amazing read to start my day before i go to work lol. Thank you for being so honest and sharing.. <3
On November 08 2011 13:13 cmgillett wrote: "So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession."
Yea fuck everyone else right? I admire your work ethic mate, but I wish you'd apply it to something else. We dont need more "scum", i think we have enough as is.
Who cares? This is the world we live in. I find it really weird how people look down on the people making a lot of money just because they aren't making that money "in the right way".
If trading is what the guy wants to do why shouldn't he? What else can he "apply" himself to? We're on a forum used by people following ESPORTS in some way or the other. Is it okay to make money playing Starcraft 2? Playing Starcraft 2 does in no way contribute to society.
Same thing with regular sports. What does Wayne Rooney contribute to society? Nothing, and yet he makes obscene amounts of cash for kicking a ball with his feet into a square net.
Sure, they might all be "scum" but then again, I see pretty much every human being as "scum" so I don't really care if some of those "scum" are also rich "scum".
I thought only a girl will talk say that about sports.
If I take games, sports, actors, musicians, television and circus acrobats away from your world I guarantee that you'll notice their role to your life.
@op
I stand corrected but a trader's contribution is not "regulating prices" since it's them who want a volatile market. And it's because of traders wanting to make money that houses change hands 5 times before someone who actually wants to stay in it paid 3 times the "fair" price.
While reading the whole: "I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession." my internal music player in my head was playing, and the song was: "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH"
On November 08 2011 13:13 cmgillett wrote: "So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession."
Yea fuck everyone else right? I admire your work ethic mate, but I wish you'd apply it to something else. We dont need more "scum", i think we have enough as is.
Who cares? This is the world we live in. I find it really weird how people look down on the people making a lot of money just because they aren't making that money "in the right way".
If trading is what the guy wants to do why shouldn't he? What else can he "apply" himself to? We're on a forum used by people following ESPORTS in some way or the other. Is it okay to make money playing Starcraft 2? Playing Starcraft 2 does in no way contribute to society.
Same thing with regular sports. What does Wayne Rooney contribute to society? Nothing, and yet he makes obscene amounts of cash for kicking a ball with his feet into a square net.
Sure, they might all be "scum" but then again, I see pretty much every human being as "scum" so I don't really care if some of those "scum" are also rich "scum".
I thought only a girl will talk say that about sports.
If I take games, sports, actors, musicians, television and circus acrobats away from your world I guarantee that you'll notice their role to your life.
I never said that you should take it away, I never said that it wouldn't make a difference if it was gone. People in this thread have said stuff like "Oh, it's so sad that you use your skills and mindset for something that doesn't contribute to society. Why not go into medicine instead?"
Why does everything have to contribute to society?
Great and inspirational read, what saddens me is that you allocated your skills to things that doesn't contribute to society (poker and trading) whereas you say you are not intersted in money, i feel that it would have been better to see a hardworking and talented individual trying to help solving the numerous problems our society are going through today, i'm not saying you should be our savior but at the end of a hardworking day, ask yourself what did you produce.
For some people making money is a sufficient goal in itself, and indeed you can do pretty much everything with enougth money, but since it's not something you are to much into, i am wondering why you didn't choose a field where you quality work doesn't involve gambling with the society
And if he'd have said that he'd give his all to be great at Starcraft 2, soccer, football, become an actor or a game maker of sorts? None of those "contribute to society" but who the fuck cares? He says several times that it's his dream to do this, who are you guys (I say guys because you're not the only one who does this) to tell him it's a bad choice?
I'm not telling it's a bad choice, it certainly is a good one, hell he'll be doing what he likes and making a good life of of it, i'm glad for him.
And actually, when you entertain people (through SC2, real sport or any artistic related content), you make the world slightly better with your own tools, providing good times to people that are following you and cheering for you to success.
It's not about what you actually produce for the society, it's about what you bring to the table for everyone while you work. When you play poker or trade, you enter a room where everybody has bring his assets and everybody is trying to take each other assets. I'm sure my view of trading is biaised but i just can't stand the economic state of our society, as people said in this thread this is probably more because of the laws that rule trading rather than the traders making all the harm, but at the end of the day, the trader is pulling the trigger.
You're not saying it's a bad choice and yet you kind of look down upon it. You think it's a profession worth less than others. Because it doesn't "contribute" to society.
I don't have any problem with athletes making huge sums of money out of kicking a ball into a net or running really fast or jumping really far. I don't have any problems with people making a living off of a video game. I also don't have a problem with people making money in other ways like this trading or poker (btw, if you're okay with real athletes making a lot of money because it's "entertainment" you shouldn't have any problem at all with poker).
It all seems to be so... I don't want to say that people are just jealous because it's something more than that, though I can't put my finger on what exactly.
I just think it's weird that one way of making money is more acceptable than others just because it "brings something to the table."
I am so pumped right now. Fantastic article and fantastic video. It really gives you a perspective of what true passion is. Now I am going to go for a run and get my daily duties done! Buuyah!
Thank you very much for the video and ofcorse the OP's article!
Great post. Can you tell us more about how you will spend these 12 hours/day? I'm asking as someone who is just becoming interested in trading. How will you structure your time and learning? Thanks and good luck!
Do what you love is what rewards you the most. I'm a web developer and because of pressure to get more money I started a SAP ABAP course, with pays better and is easier to get a job. Worst thing I've done...I hated it, is old and hard to program, I wasted plenty of money and it isn't cheap to do a SAP course... I wanted to do new things, work with new technologies, and now I'm starting to learn iOS development by myself and I'm chasing it as a dream, not just iOS, I wan't to work with web development overall, both native languages for iOS and Android and web for mobile. I doesn't pay as well as I would get paid for working with SAP, but I'm sure I'll be way happier working with it.
Great and inspirational read, what saddens me is that you allocated your skills to things that doesn't contribute to society (poker and trading) whereas you say you are not intersted in money, i feel that it would have been better to see a hardworking and talented individual trying to help solving the numerous problems our society are going through today, i'm not saying you should be our savior but at the end of a hardworking day, ask yourself what did you produce.
For some people making money is a sufficient goal in itself, and indeed you can do pretty much everything with enougth money, but since it's not something you are to much into, i am wondering why you didn't choose a field where you quality work doesn't involve gambling with the society
And if he'd have said that he'd give his all to be great at Starcraft 2, soccer, football, become an actor or a game maker of sorts? None of those "contribute to society" but who the fuck cares? He says several times that it's his dream to do this, who are you guys (I say guys because you're not the only one who does this) to tell him it's a bad choice?
I'm not telling it's a bad choice, it certainly is a good one, hell he'll be doing what he likes and making a good life of of it, i'm glad for him.
And actually, when you entertain people (through SC2, real sport or any artistic related content), you make the world slightly better with your own tools, providing good times to people that are following you and cheering for you to success.
It's not about what you actually produce for the society, it's about what you bring to the table for everyone while you work. When you play poker or trade, you enter a room where everybody has bring his assets and everybody is trying to take each other assets. I'm sure my view of trading is biaised but i just can't stand the economic state of our society, as people said in this thread this is probably more because of the laws that rule trading rather than the traders making all the harm, but at the end of the day, the trader is pulling the trigger.
This is correct. Trading is a vice of capitalism, a vice that alienates men from men. It's not the rules, it's the system we live in. The rules are capitalist rules, and as long as they are, it will be every man for himself.
You keep talking about the bleak economic prospect of the eurozone, and about a soon coming recession. Two questions about this: First of all a eurozone recession is pretty much what everyone expects within the next few months to a year - how is your knowledge helping you beat the market? And second, even if you have more insight - how is the general idea of coming recession (which seems very vague and not too time bound) helping you in day trading or short term transactions generally?
Great read! This really insipired me, I've been chasing my dream now of becoming a Starcraft II commentator for a littel over a year now and things have really started to pick up the last couple months mainly because I've been living by the moto "You have to start somewhere" It is like you said
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
So I've been wokring hard but I could really be working even harder! Thank you so much for motavating and inspiring me!
I'm kind of finding myself in a similar situation as you in college. Just going to classes, doing stuff just to get a degree, without really enjoying a lot of it. This read was very good for me, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope you succeed in your goals!
this is probably the best blog i've ever read on tl (eventhough i sadly didnt exactly understand what you were talking about since im not into trading)
i really like how you are so passionate about what youre going to do and really hope youre gonna do well
this thread goes so deep into your emotions which is something i really like (not necessarily that you are posting it here but that you are so honest with yourself)
I loved the first half, felt we were so much alike in the aspect of just "getting" things easy, having everyone u know around you compliment you going "sick how fast good you got lol". Then stagnant, lose motivations, pussy out, and feel the procstination seeping in. Even gone a similar route as you, poker for income for a few years, didn't trade, but traded loads in d2 and in magic lol. I guess that doesn't count.
Motivational ending too, I'll try and steal some of the enthusiasm. Although im a little torn, after started listening so much to Alan Watts, the "pyrmaid" we get put in, sounds an awful lot like what you're doing. I have to contemplate and think more lol.
5 star blog, keep owning.
EDIT: Yeah I also didn't understand 60% of what I read, none of the trading made sense, but I can still relate. Since I have knowledge in a lot of areas, and when I talk to people who know stuff about those areas and people around me don't know what we're talking about, I can kinda feel what they are feeling. So felt it, even thought I had no idea what was being said.
Great read and good luck! Oh, and remember not to get into drugs when you are working hard. I heard it's a problem within traders to keep them boosted and working! Who knows how it really is though.
Nice Post, and I like your attitude to chase your dream and all the hard work talk (its always the same talk, because everybody has to legitimatize his or her behaviour before his conscience or other people). Its a friendly way to handle things and a hard one for sure. but in generel I hope you and your kind of branch will crash. you wont crash, because you are needed (and have good allies). but the profession you're in is a *****, and even with passion the ***** isnt getting any better. sorry.
It is great for a person to find a "reason" a "goal" and a "dream" in life. It gives that motive that makes him/her go over the bridge, into uncharted territory, while the bridge from where he came has burnt down (too much of High Hopes the last few days...). The same metaphor with the safety net.
I should flame you for the "Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession". You should keep in mind that while you are creating a fortune, other people suffer because of it. Therefore you will not hear good luck from me on that.
BUT, I find myself in kinda of a same spot, although on a completely different life course and field of interest. Thus I can appreciate your passion for "taking away that safety net". It is something I am "unintentionally" delaying. Being really good somewhere (and I have a few fields of interest, where I am more than decent good). It is refreshing to hear someone doing exactly that... and I wish you good luck in finding what happiness is for you.
But, a couple of points on that:
On November 08 2011 11:32 BrTarolg wrote: Pretty much most of my life social interactions suffered because these things were secondary compared to "getting good" at stuff. Whether that be academic, health, gaming or a whole bunch of other things.
I have found that hunting for summits is a wrong way to approach life. You are never going to reach them, or even worse... you will. Then what? Choose a next summit and try to climb that as well? For how long? Until you are so tired of it that you quit, or until you burn out?
Be careful about that. The climb is all that matters, not the summit itself. Have a business goal, yet try to have a social life as well. THE goal as a human (and as a living being) is to have children, have a family. Keep that always in mind. And I will leave you with a few verses of perhaps my favorite poem, Ithaka, written by Cavafy:
Keep Ithaka always in your mind. Arriving there is what you are destined for. But do not hurry the journey at all. Better if it lasts for years, so you are old by the time you reach the island, wealthy with all you have gained on the way, not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.
Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey. Without her you would not have set out. She has nothing left to give you now.
And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you. Wise as you will have become, so full of experience, you will have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.
The whole poem translated in English is found here [http://www.cavafy.com/poems/content.asp?id=74&cat=1] and I believe is a must read.
So you wanna do the job. It's ok, if you don't succeed at it, another will. Except it's the job fucking people all over the world and everybody congratulate this guy. Traders are not ethic, they're a big part in our society failing but that's all we deserve as soon as we keep encouraging it.
Take it easy, it's not personnal but I'm surprised you get so much credits. Maybe it's because your blog is really nice.
after a rather mediocre finish at school, i was given the chance to study food chemistry (i'm not entirely sure about a more formal way of translating "lebensmittelchemie"). similar to you, i am absolutely not doing this for anyone but myself. i am doing this because i know i can succeed at being fuckin great at it just by working my ass off. failure is not an option.
so, yeah i'm feeling you.
(maybe i was lucky enough to have a teacher that symbolized what someone could do by being passionate about ones work. to me, he seems to have achieved pretty much everything i could wish for in my life)
I'm going to try something new here and write my reply as I read. You have Aspergers and lead a tough social life. I can definitely relate to that, considering I too have Aspergers and have a tough social life. Too bad I'm also a perfectionist or something, because I can recall dozens of past social errors and get embarassed with the recollection. You are a baller. Steve freaking Arneil, anyone? Seems you have the same quasi-perfectionist issues I have, along with the commitment ones. Annoying as hell, aren't they? You KNOW you want to be good at this, you know you should enjoy this, but you don't and you quit. You are a baller at life. Taking control like a boss. Absolute awesome read. You gonna make an edition #2?
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
"You" caused the housing bubble/crisis. Very true. The average, low to middle income house buyer caused the crash. That is very astute. Because, I know when I bought my house, I marched right in there and told them what my APR was going to be, what my maximum loan was, what the loan period was going to be and what my down payment was. If a bank didn't accept, then in true capitalist fashion, I went to another one that would accept my terms.
In case you cant tell, I'm bullshitting. I don't know if the OP has ever bought a house, but the banks are the ones that make the loans and it's up to the buyer to accept them. I would usually dismiss this as trolling, but you can tell this guy is 100% serious. People take mortgages based on what the bank offers. The offers from almost all banks are 95% similar based on your credit and your history. The Banks were making bullshit, speculative loans, and a lot of the crisis, as you correctly pointed out- was designed to benefit the very few.
You should really thank your lucky stars that Socialist America came to the rescue with 700 billion dollars for this mockery of a financial system, and that the old-boy Federal Reserve has, under the table, cranked out another 14 trillion over the last 10 years to whichever too-big-to-fail bank was failing at the time. Not to mention, that most banks already loan out at a 9 to 1 ratio or worse, especially BofA... this shit does not work, and will eventually collapse.
Not to digress, but really, all people can do is say yes or no- the banks make the loans. 95% of those Adjustable and Refinance loans should not have been made, period.
Thanks, it was a nice read, but there is one thing that bother me. If you want to be successful it is not necessary to work like a dog. Sure you can do that, but there are certain limits to it, foremost your precious health. The key is to be innovative and distinctive. Only the people without imagination are working like a dog (and for less money nowadays) to increase their value. I admire your drive to chase your dream, but always remember that there are so much more things in life that are important for your happiness.
Interesting. I'm puzzled by people who say this is "inspiring" though.
Are you sure you're asking yourself the right questions?
I never heard you say that this is something you actually like doing. Is this really your dream? Is this something that will make your life better, or more fufilling? What is implicit in your concept of "success"? What do you really gain out of this undertaking? Is there something else that you'd rather be doing?
I just want to make sure that you're not doing this because its something you're "supposed" to do based on your schooling. You seem very cynical about the whole thing. That's not a very good place to start from.
On November 09 2011 06:08 cursor wrote: "You" caused the housing bubble/crisis. Very true. The average, low to middle income house buyer caused the crash. That is very astute. Because, I know when I bought my house, I marched right in there and told them what my APR was going to be, what my maximum loan was, what the loan period was going to be and what my down payment was. If a bank didn't accept, then in true capitalist fashion, I went to another one that would accept my terms.
In case you cant tell, I'm bullshitting. I don't know if the OP has ever bought a house, but the banks are the ones that make the loans and it's up to the buyer to accept them. I would usually dismiss this as trolling, but you can tell this guy is 100% serious. People take mortgages based on what the bank offers. The offers from almost all banks are 95% similar based on your credit and your history. The Banks were making bullshit, speculative loans, and a lot of the crisis, as you correctly pointed out- was designed to benefit the very few.
You should really thank your lucky stars that Socialist America came to the rescue with 700 billion dollars for this mockery of a financial system, and that the old-boy Federal Reserve has, under the table, cranked out another 14 trillion over the last 10 years to whichever too-big-to-fail bank was failing at the time. Not to mention, that most banks already loan out at a 9 to 1 ratio or worse, especially BofA... this shit does not work, and will eventually collapse.
Not to digress, but really, all people can do is say yes or no- the banks make the loans. 95% of those Adjustable and Refinance loans should not have been made, period.
Yeah, I would be really thankful if the government used my hard earned tax money to give money to banks that are taking too much risk , so they can continue taking risk, all the while inflating my dollar, så every fucking penny I make is worth less.. Have you ever asked yourself why there is inflation? We are getting more effective every year, yet prices go up? How does this even make sense, why is nothing getting cheaper?
To OP: I know where you are coming from, all though I have do not have asbergers or anything, I've always been different than most people. I also get good at things pretty quickly (not physical activities, I have about zero strength and coordination lol). I get tired of things pretty quickly - I was getting really good at Starcraft 2 some months after release - then I plateaued, and now I am only in Diamond league. I wish someday I will find something that makes me want to get up in the morning. I am going to try poker when I get my next paycheck, I am learning fast mental arithemetic and expected values in the mean time - my dream however is to become a prop trader - a professional investor. I hope you succeed.
I currently study finance and I feel like I learn almost nothing in school, the conventional finance theory that is being taught in universities across the world is so full of bullshit and nonsensical quantitative economics.. Ideally, trading stocks, bonds, derivatives etc, is to allocate resources where they are most needed, often though this simply is not the case - but what people do not realise is how much the governent is screwing them over.
To the rest:
Is trading contributing to the society? I would like to make the case that it is - by providing liquidity to the markets.. These people we call "speculators" are often at either the buy side, or the sell side, and companies needing funds does not care if they get money from a professional trader or their neighbour.
I am not really that good at writing, if you have any questions about my post just ask! I do not pretend to know everything, but I do think people should calm down with their remarks that trading is somehow "bad" for the society. This simply is not the case. But I understand where people are coming from, as this is pretty complicated. Traders and investment bankers that make a lot of money because of the government bailouts are not to blame - the government is.
Well you all voted for "the evil trader story" so i'll give it to you, but before that a few comments. In terms of the ethics of my job, i already wrote a long post describing why (and partially how) trading exists and why it is an incredibly vital function to society. Even though it may not seem like it, the financial world is intimately linked with everything and anything to do with the modern world. Trading is the purest expression of exactly what the word means - trading of goods and services.
But its OK. I understand some people don't like traders, other people don't care, other people just don't understand. That's normal. I certainly don't understand everything about trading, and neither should any of you! Though if you take out a loan you can't afford, or investing your pension money in risky assets without understanding the risks, don't blame me when your money blows up.
From my perspective, im not out there to cause misery, or to steal money from anyone. I'm out there to make markets. I find it quite funny, I have a fair idea of how it works and why it works. All it really is buying things cheap and then selling them expensive. If the world is about to blow up, and it hasn't been priced in yet, that means stuff is expensive so i'm going to sell it. If the world just blew up and everyone is scared to buy things at rock bottom, things are cheap and i'm gonna buy it.
A metals commodities trader will sell and buy metals, and ship them around the world, matching up people who want metal and people who want to sell metal. Can you not see why this is important?
Personally i will be trading short term interest rates, or STIRs, which are often used to hedge interest rate options and hedge against interest rate movements. Note the key word, hedge. As a market maker, i'll be picking up on the little inefficiencies which the big banks and other institutions leave behind.
None of this involves me viciously going after your money, causing financial crisis, or driving the price of food up with my wanton speculation. Trader's don't create direction in markets, they FIND direction in markets.
Either way, you can believe me or not, but there isn't much else for me to address on the subject, so i'm going to leave it at that.
-----
Ok so, back to Hanshi Steve Arniel. What a boss. And an evil trader story.
Again, he spent his time teaching little kids and newbies in his own little dojo, and at our school. When asked he replied "I like teaching kids. They learn fast - they are the future. The youth are the adults of tomorrow, and it's important that we invest in you now, and teach you the right things so that you can do well in the future."
So I had a trader friend, a particular one. Hes an ex goldman sachs trader, and he was one of the very best. From the age of 16 and a meager background, he convinced his mother to open up a stock trading account for him, and he rode the tech bubble like nobody's business, and got out in 1999. He made an absolute fortune in relative terms before he finished uni.
Back then, trading was different, banks took big prop positions on top of their normal trading (you can't do this anymore, pretty much all the traders either went to hedge funds or became independent or something similar)
So he tells me, he went to JPMorgan for his interview. They gave some wierd maths question (hes not even a maths genious), and all around him was a bunch of guys with PHD's and masters from crazy uni's around the world, and all he had was an economics degree from a normal UK university. Somehow, he was the only guy to be able to figure out the puzzles and get them right, so they took him around the floor. He described his disappointment to me "This is the traders floor? All i hear is.. typing?"
He then went to Goldman Sachs for his interview. There were to be 8 rounds of interviews. Just to get to his room he described the experience as "like walking through a cowboys den" - he had to wade and push people aside through a pile of mess just to get to the room. He told me that the room was full of screaming and shouting constantly, people throwing their staplers and keyboards at each other, and constant running around.
So he sat down with his interviewer, and he said "So why the fuck do you wanna work for us?" His response was - "I just came from my JPMorgan interview. When i went on that floor, i heard typing. Things were clean, boring. But wow, when i walked in here, it's like a nuclear warzone. This is the kind of trading i'm talking about!" His interviewer said "fair enough. Do you smoke? Let's go outside for a smoke"
So this trader started work on the equities desk, and he covered airline stock. He has since retired, a multi millionaire in his twenties. During that time he worked on average of 16 hours a day, taking flights every weekend to business trips around the world. He got very little sleep.
So I was sitting with this guy, and he told me that he was invited to some conference, where they were giving out some awards to people. And he was asked to give a speech, with the focus being on "Mentoring the Youth". He said "alright, i'll tell you why it's important to mentor the youth"
So he got up on the podium, and he decided that instead of giving some wooly losers speech, he would tell people something of real substance. (I am approximating this speech btw) "So you wan't to know why it's important to mentor the youth? When i joined Goldman Sachs, they were the best traders in the world. They took me, someone who knew nothing, and taught me everything. And they taught me one thing, above anything else. That when something big happens, you have to act. Most people react to big events by standing still, staring, and watching. This has happened time and time again in history. People freeze, they freeze up and stare, unsure of what to do. But these traders, these leaders, they taught me to take action - because when something big happens, someone has to keep the wheel turning. If you don't then everything falls apart. The leaders have to take action and make sure that the world still works when everyone else is frozen still.
So in the year 2001, we knew that the tech bubble had burst, and a recession was coming. All it needed was one big kick and it would come. Every single day the stock market was bleeding a little bit at a time, and we all knew the big one had to come. All of us had our big shorts on the market ready for it.
Come Sept 11, 2001. The first plane crashes into the World Trade Center. Markets around the world freeze. Everyone, his bosses, his seniors, they stand up, and stare at the screen, the catastrophe that is happening. But I did something different, I acted. I picked up the phone, and shorted millions and millions of airline companies. I acted fast - because when the second plane hit, i picked my phone up again, and went shorter and shorter. Eventually the entire market froze, he was the only one left in the market. Every single trader in the world had stopped making markets, and they were watching the screens. But he kept picking up his phone, and selling more and more airline stock.
Within 40 minutes, he had made 30 million dollars. His desk on that day, lost 30 million dollars to the crisis, and he saved his entire desk. Because of his action, they were breakeven and did not lose an absolutely monumental amount of money. He stood up and acted. He didn't do what a normal person would do, stare and do nothing.
So you want to know why mentoring the youth is important? This is why it's important. Because if they hadn't taught him to react to big events, they would have lost 30 million dollars that day."
----
I'll use my next post to answer questions and comments people have made in the thread
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
In what way are traders stealing money. All they're doing is buying and selling, more or less the same as a trader on ebay. The only difference is the market they trade in is harder for people to understand, and thus is seen by society to be simply fabricating money.
On November 09 2011 06:58 Tomazi wrote: If the people needing liquidity were doing something worthwhile, society will (would) help make it happen.
Do you think the stock market would work as well as it does to value companies if there were no liquidity in the market. You'd have to wait days between trades, as only those wanting to hold long-term would be buying, which in turn raises the question of who would you be buying from. Imagine if you wanted a loan from a bank, and they told you that instead of just giving you the loan themselves (providing liquidity in the market of savings/loans) that you would have to personally find somebody who was willing to lend you that money. Do you not see how this is inefficient and incredibly backwards?
Liquidity in the markets is worthwhile, and society has evidently made it happen.
I dislike this. You say frequently you're not in it for the money, and then say a few times, "I'm going to earn my big bonus", and the worst part was, "I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession."
That's pretty... horrific. That you're having thoughts of gaining money off others misfortune. I don't particularly know why this is getting applauded.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
In what way are traders stealing money. All they're doing is buying and selling, more or less the same as a trader on ebay. The only difference is the market they trade in is harder for people to understand, and thus is seen by society to be simply fabricating money.
On November 09 2011 06:58 Tomazi wrote: If the people needing liquidity were doing something worthwhile, society will (would) help make it happen.
Do you think the stock market would work as well as it does to value companies if there were no liquidity in the market. You'd have to wait days between trades, as only those wanting to hold long-term would be buying, which in turn raises the question of who would you be buying from. Imagine if you wanted a loan from a bank, and they told you that instead of just giving you the loan themselves (providing liquidity in the market of savings/loans) that you would have to personally find somebody who was willing to lend you that money. Do you not see how this is inefficient and incredibly backwards?
Liquidity in the markets is worthwhile, and society has evidently made it happen.
And to the OP, great blog, really inspiring.
Within this capitalist system, you are right.
Except the trading and ebay analogy, it's very flawed even in this system. The end result on ebay is that some consumer gets what they want, even if the guy selling is just trading his way up. Financial trading is mostly with theoretical money.
What it is about this particular endeavour that makes you feel like you'll be able to sustain your interest/commitment beyond that tipping point where you usually bail out and seek something new?
On November 09 2011 07:25 Jedclark wrote: I dislike this. You say frequently you're not in it for the money, and then say a few times, "I'm going to earn my big bonus", and the worst part was, "I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession."
That's pretty... horrific. That you're having thoughts of gaining money off others misfortune. I don't particularly know why this is getting applauded.
You have to know that (and he explained this) that in trading, money is the measure of success. Money is your score. Money is everything. There is no fallacy in his statement, if you just understand what he is really saying.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
In what way are traders stealing money. All they're doing is buying and selling, more or less the same as a trader on ebay. The only difference is the market they trade in is harder for people to understand, and thus is seen by society to be simply fabricating money.
On November 09 2011 06:58 Tomazi wrote: If the people needing liquidity were doing something worthwhile, society will (would) help make it happen.
Do you think the stock market would work as well as it does to value companies if there were no liquidity in the market. You'd have to wait days between trades, as only those wanting to hold long-term would be buying, which in turn raises the question of who would you be buying from. Imagine if you wanted a loan from a bank, and they told you that instead of just giving you the loan themselves (providing liquidity in the market of savings/loans) that you would have to personally find somebody who was willing to lend you that money. Do you not see how this is inefficient and incredibly backwards?
Liquidity in the markets is worthwhile, and society has evidently made it happen.
And to the OP, great blog, really inspiring.
Within this capitalist system, you are right.
Except the trading and ebay analogy, it's very flawed even in this system. The end result on ebay is that some consumer gets what they want, even if the guy selling is just trading his way up. Financial trading is mostly with theoretical money.
Theoretical money? What on earth are you talking about? Liquid financial securities can be turned into hard cash pretty quickly, I would not call it theoretical, thats bullshit.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
In what way are traders stealing money. All they're doing is buying and selling, more or less the same as a trader on ebay. The only difference is the market they trade in is harder for people to understand, and thus is seen by society to be simply fabricating money.
On November 09 2011 06:58 Tomazi wrote: If the people needing liquidity were doing something worthwhile, society will (would) help make it happen.
Do you think the stock market would work as well as it does to value companies if there were no liquidity in the market. You'd have to wait days between trades, as only those wanting to hold long-term would be buying, which in turn raises the question of who would you be buying from. Imagine if you wanted a loan from a bank, and they told you that instead of just giving you the loan themselves (providing liquidity in the market of savings/loans) that you would have to personally find somebody who was willing to lend you that money. Do you not see how this is inefficient and incredibly backwards?
Liquidity in the markets is worthwhile, and society has evidently made it happen.
And to the OP, great blog, really inspiring.
Within this capitalist system, you are right.
Except the trading and ebay analogy, it's very flawed even in this system. The end result on ebay is that some consumer gets what they want, even if the guy selling is just trading his way up. Financial trading is mostly with theoretical money.
But that is the whole point of the analogy, which you appear to be missing. Trading financial securities is pretty much the same as trading physical goods. Just because the good is more of an abstract idea and not tangible does not mean you are not matching up willing buyers and sellers. Nobody is being forced to buy or sell these securities.
On November 09 2011 08:54 WhiteDog wrote: Why trader ? lol Your dream is to be the "scum"... There is something off with that. Your dream is making money, I'd say it's a shitty dream...
I'm guessing you don't really understand how the financial system work, and are just going along with the stereotypical view that people have at the moment thanks to the media and governments using traders and banks as scapegoats.
On November 09 2011 09:11 ulan-bat wrote: Good luck chasing your dream/money and "working your ass off". Maybe in your mid-40s you'll realise what you did...
Until then, good luck again.
most people even realize it before the mid 40s, but they dont care :D
On November 09 2011 09:29 flanksteak wrote: Why are people pre-conditioned to dislike traders before even understanding what they do.
Best of luck to the OP.
Probably because people are preconditioned to believe that money is bad, gaining/wanting money is bad, and thus making money with money must therefore be super bad. Just a total lack of understanding really.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
There's a chance this might happen, not a large one, so I'll wish you the best of luck.
On November 09 2011 09:29 flanksteak wrote: Why are people pre-conditioned to dislike traders before even understanding what they do.
Best of luck to the OP.
Probably because people are preconditioned to believe that money is bad, gaining/wanting money is bad, and thus making money with money must therefore be super bad. Just a total lack of understanding really.
It relates more to them getting bonuses(that the media point out whenever they can) when they get their gambles right and the taxpayer having to foot bills when they don't.
On November 09 2011 09:29 flanksteak wrote: Why are people pre-conditioned to dislike traders before even understanding what they do.
Best of luck to the OP.
Probably because people are preconditioned to believe that money is bad, gaining/wanting money is bad, and thus making money with money must therefore be super bad. Just a total lack of understanding really.
It relates more to them getting bonuses(that the media point out whenever they can) when they get their gambles right and the taxpayer having to foot bills when they don't.
Perhaps yes. This was however the big banks, not the proprietary traders. I don't believe any of them were bailed out if they were going under. They've simply been lumped under the term financial institution, so in the eye of the media are inherently evil.
On November 09 2011 09:29 flanksteak wrote: Why are people pre-conditioned to dislike traders before even understanding what they do.
Best of luck to the OP.
Probably because people are preconditioned to believe that money is bad, gaining/wanting money is bad, and thus making money with money must therefore be super bad. Just a total lack of understanding really.
Are you guys serious? He admitted to going into prop trading - that's about as close to legal gambling as you can get without being a gambler by definition. Also, this whole liquidity argument is nonsense. The amount of liquidity he's going to add to the market is completely negligible. It's not like he's going to sell-side doing market making.
Now, I'm not saying he's not adding any value to society. Yes, wealthy people need to "invest" their money.. blah blah. I'm just saying it's kind of debatable and I would argue that the societal value of most professions is not so vague. Compare being a prop trader to say being a medical doctor, or engineer, or scientist for example....
It's appalling how ignorant and uneducated a large portion of these posters are. OP is not a ''bad person'' for goodness sakes. I won't even attempt to explain because there are already people explaining it, and the ignorants are continuing to be ignorant.
I found this blog really inspiring so thankyou for that and I hope you do achieve your dream.
I feel like my situation right now is similar to yours a few years ago. I finished school last year with some decent A levels and applied to do a Maths degree, which I'll be starting next year, but I still have no idea what I actually want.
For a while I wanted to be a Doctor, but I didn't work hard enough to get that, which makes me think it was more something I thought would be pretty nice, instead of something that I can truly be passionate about. All I know is I enjoy studying Maths and I'm always being told how "you can do anything with a Maths degree", so my hope is that by the time I've finished my degree I do know what dream I'm chasing.
Vincent, right? You always came across as a pretty thoughtful guy when I played Maple under you as my guild leader. I'm glad you've found some direction in life.
On November 09 2011 09:11 ulan-bat wrote: Good luck chasing your dream/money and "working your ass off". Maybe in your mid-40s you'll realize what you did...
Until then, good luck again.
This is it actually.
I've heard many stories about traders, analyst and people in other roles in big funds, particularly those that came out of academia, becoming completely disenchanted with their profession after a couple of years.
Many of these people ended up taking a pay cut and leaving the industry. Turns out money doesn't buy happiness.. who knew...
On November 09 2011 09:11 ulan-bat wrote: Good luck chasing your dream/money and "working your ass off". Maybe in your mid-40s you'll realize what you did...
Until then, good luck again.
This is it actually.
I've heard many stories about traders, analyst and people in other roles in big funds, particularly those that came out of academia, becoming completely disenchanted with their profession after a couple of years.
Many of these people ended up taking a pay cut and leaving the industry. Turns out money doesn't buy happiness.. who knew...
This is true. You're probably referring to that Andrew Ladhe's open letter? You can find it all over the web, so I'll just post it here. If it's too long, mods please just remove it Not exactly what the OP is doing, but basically it's a guy who used to run a hedge fund, and now he's calling it quits.
Andrew Ladhe's Open Letter Today I write not to gloat. Given the pain that nearly everyone is experiencing, that would be entirely inappropriate. Nor am I writing to make further predictions, as most of my forecasts in previous letters have unfolded or are in the process of unfolding. Instead, I am writing to say goodbye.
Recently, on the front page of Section C of the Wall Street Journal, a hedge fund manager who was also closing up shop (a $300 million fund), was quoted as saying, “What I have learned about the hedge fund business is that I hate it.” I could not agree more with that statement. I was in this game for the money. The low hanging fruit, i.e. idiots whose parents paid for prep school, Yale, and then the Harvard MBA, was there for the taking. These people who were (often) truly not worthy of the education they received (or supposedly received) rose to the top of companies such as AIG, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and all levels of our government. All of this behavior supporting the Aristocracy, only ended up making it easier for me to find people stupid enough to take the other side of my trades. God bless America.
There are far too many people for me to sincerely thank for my success. However, I do not want to sound like a Hollywood actor accepting an award. The money was reward enough. Furthermore, the endless list those deserving thanks know who they are.
I will no longer manage money for other people or institutions. I have enough of my own wealth to manage. Some people, who think they have arrived at a reasonable estimate of my net worth, might be surprised that I would call it quits with such a small war chest. That is fine; I am content with my rewards. Moreover, I will let others try to amass nine, ten or eleven figure net worths. Meanwhile, their lives suck. Appointments back to back, booked solid for the next three months, they look forward to their two week vacation in January during which they will likely be glued to their Blackberries or other such devices. What is the point? They will all be forgotten in fifty years anyway. Steve Balmer, Steven Cohen, and Larry Ellison will all be forgotten. I do not understand the legacy thing. Nearly everyone will be forgotten. Give up on leaving your mark. Throw the Blackberry away and enjoy life.
So this is it. With all due respect, I am dropping out. Please do not expect any type of reply to emails or voicemails within normal time frames or at all. Andy Springer and his company will be handling the dissolution of the fund. And don’t worry about my employees, they were always employed by Mr. Springer’s company and only one (who has been well-rewarded) will lose his job.
I have no interest in any deals in which anyone would like me to participate. I truly do not have a strong opinion about any market right now, other than to say that things will continue to get worse for some time, probably years. I am content sitting on the sidelines and waiting. After all, sitting and waiting is how we made money from the subprime debacle. I now have time to repair my health, which was destroyed by the stress I layered onto myself over the past two years, as well as my entire life — where I had to compete for spaces in universities and graduate schools, jobs and assets under management — with those who had all the advantages (rich parents) that I did not. May meritocracy be part of a new form of government, which needs to be established.
On the issue of the U.S. Government, I would like to make a modest proposal. First, I point out the obvious flaws, whereby legislation was repeatedly brought forth to Congress over the past eight years, which would have reigned in the predatory lending practices of now mostly defunct institutions. These institutions regularly filled the coffers of both parties in return for voting down all of this legislation designed to protect the common citizen. This is an outrage, yet no one seems to know or care about it. Since Thomas Jefferson and Adam Smith passed, I would argue that there has been a dearth of worthy philosophers in this country, at least ones focused on improving government. Capitalism worked for two hundred years, but times change, and systems become corrupt. George Soros, a man of staggering wealth, has stated that he would like to be remembered as a philosopher. My suggestion is that this great man start and sponsor a forum for great minds to come together to create a new system of government that truly represents the common man’s interest, while at the same time creating rewards great enough to attract the best and brightest minds to serve in government roles without having to rely on corruption to further their interests or lifestyles. This forum could be similar to the one used to create the operating system, Linux, which competes with Microsoft’s near monopoly. I believe there is an answer, but for now the system is clearly broken.
Lastly, while I still have an audience, I would like to bring attention to an alternative food and energy source. You won’t see it included in BP’s, “Feel good. We are working on sustainable solutions,” television commercials, nor is it mentioned in ADM’s similar commercials. But hemp has been used for at least 5,000 years for cloth and food, as well as just about everything that is produced from petroleum products. Hemp is not marijuana and vice versa. Hemp is the male plant and it grows like a weed, hence the slang term. The original American flag was made of hemp fiber and our Constitution was printed on paper made of hemp. It was used as recently as World War II by the U.S. Government, and then promptly made illegal after the war was won. At a time when rhetoric is flying about becoming more self-sufficient in terms of energy, why is it illegal to grow this plant in this country? Ah, the female. The evil female plant — marijuana. It gets you high, it makes you laugh, it does not produce a hangover. Unlike alcohol, it does not result in bar fights or wife beating. So, why is this innocuous plant illegal? Is it a gateway drug? No, that would be alcohol, which is so heavily advertised in this country. My only conclusion as to why it is illegal, is that Corporate America, which owns Congress, would rather sell you Paxil, Zoloft, Xanax and other additive drugs, than allow you to grow a plant in your home without some of the profits going into their coffers. This policy is ludicrous. It has surely contributed to our dependency on foreign energy sources. Our policies have other countries literally laughing at our stupidity, most notably Canada, as well as several European nations (both Eastern and Western). You would not know this by paying attention to U.S. media sources though, as they tend not to elaborate on who is laughing at the United States this week. Please people, let’s stop the rhetoric and start thinking about how we can truly become self-sufficient.
With that I say good-bye and good luck.
All the best,
Andrew Lahde
Lots of interesting things in his letter; but to your point about money not buying happiness - you're right, but I would a million times over choose to have sufficient bank roll before tackling the more existential issues, lol.
Unrelated to your post, and just thinking out loud here: I'm not saying people can't be happy with their work - if you have something like that where your hobby/interests are aligned with making a living, then that is fucking awesome and you should never take it for granted. But for the vast majority of people (like me), average wage slave folks who will probably live in a cubicle until they are 60; if it doesn't matter to you what type of work you do and you've "lost your passion", then you fucking better make sure you get paid. I imagine the OP's plan is to bust his ass for like a decade and quit when he's got enough - GOOD. I hope he succeeds.
On November 09 2011 09:11 ulan-bat wrote: Good luck chasing your dream/money and "working your ass off". Maybe in your mid-40s you'll realize what you did...
Until then, good luck again.
This is it actually.
I've heard many stories about traders, analyst and people in other roles in big funds, particularly those that came out of academia, becoming completely disenchanted with their profession after a couple of years.
Many of these people ended up taking a pay cut and leaving the industry. Turns out money doesn't buy happiness.. who knew...
This is true. You're probably referring to that Andrew Ladhe's open letter? You can find it all over the web, so I'll just post it here. If it's too long, mods please just remove it Not exactly what the OP is doing, but basically it's a guy who used to run a hedge fund, and now he's calling it quits.
Andrew Ladhe's Open Letter Today I write not to gloat. Given the pain that nearly everyone is experiencing, that would be entirely inappropriate. Nor am I writing to make further predictions, as most of my forecasts in previous letters have unfolded or are in the process of unfolding. Instead, I am writing to say goodbye.
Recently, on the front page of Section C of the Wall Street Journal, a hedge fund manager who was also closing up shop (a $300 million fund), was quoted as saying, “What I have learned about the hedge fund business is that I hate it.” I could not agree more with that statement. I was in this game for the money. The low hanging fruit, i.e. idiots whose parents paid for prep school, Yale, and then the Harvard MBA, was there for the taking. These people who were (often) truly not worthy of the education they received (or supposedly received) rose to the top of companies such as AIG, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and all levels of our government. All of this behavior supporting the Aristocracy, only ended up making it easier for me to find people stupid enough to take the other side of my trades. God bless America.
There are far too many people for me to sincerely thank for my success. However, I do not want to sound like a Hollywood actor accepting an award. The money was reward enough. Furthermore, the endless list those deserving thanks know who they are.
I will no longer manage money for other people or institutions. I have enough of my own wealth to manage. Some people, who think they have arrived at a reasonable estimate of my net worth, might be surprised that I would call it quits with such a small war chest. That is fine; I am content with my rewards. Moreover, I will let others try to amass nine, ten or eleven figure net worths. Meanwhile, their lives suck. Appointments back to back, booked solid for the next three months, they look forward to their two week vacation in January during which they will likely be glued to their Blackberries or other such devices. What is the point? They will all be forgotten in fifty years anyway. Steve Balmer, Steven Cohen, and Larry Ellison will all be forgotten. I do not understand the legacy thing. Nearly everyone will be forgotten. Give up on leaving your mark. Throw the Blackberry away and enjoy life.
So this is it. With all due respect, I am dropping out. Please do not expect any type of reply to emails or voicemails within normal time frames or at all. Andy Springer and his company will be handling the dissolution of the fund. And don’t worry about my employees, they were always employed by Mr. Springer’s company and only one (who has been well-rewarded) will lose his job.
I have no interest in any deals in which anyone would like me to participate. I truly do not have a strong opinion about any market right now, other than to say that things will continue to get worse for some time, probably years. I am content sitting on the sidelines and waiting. After all, sitting and waiting is how we made money from the subprime debacle. I now have time to repair my health, which was destroyed by the stress I layered onto myself over the past two years, as well as my entire life — where I had to compete for spaces in universities and graduate schools, jobs and assets under management — with those who had all the advantages (rich parents) that I did not. May meritocracy be part of a new form of government, which needs to be established.
On the issue of the U.S. Government, I would like to make a modest proposal. First, I point out the obvious flaws, whereby legislation was repeatedly brought forth to Congress over the past eight years, which would have reigned in the predatory lending practices of now mostly defunct institutions. These institutions regularly filled the coffers of both parties in return for voting down all of this legislation designed to protect the common citizen. This is an outrage, yet no one seems to know or care about it. Since Thomas Jefferson and Adam Smith passed, I would argue that there has been a dearth of worthy philosophers in this country, at least ones focused on improving government. Capitalism worked for two hundred years, but times change, and systems become corrupt. George Soros, a man of staggering wealth, has stated that he would like to be remembered as a philosopher. My suggestion is that this great man start and sponsor a forum for great minds to come together to create a new system of government that truly represents the common man’s interest, while at the same time creating rewards great enough to attract the best and brightest minds to serve in government roles without having to rely on corruption to further their interests or lifestyles. This forum could be similar to the one used to create the operating system, Linux, which competes with Microsoft’s near monopoly. I believe there is an answer, but for now the system is clearly broken.
Lastly, while I still have an audience, I would like to bring attention to an alternative food and energy source. You won’t see it included in BP’s, “Feel good. We are working on sustainable solutions,” television commercials, nor is it mentioned in ADM’s similar commercials. But hemp has been used for at least 5,000 years for cloth and food, as well as just about everything that is produced from petroleum products. Hemp is not marijuana and vice versa. Hemp is the male plant and it grows like a weed, hence the slang term. The original American flag was made of hemp fiber and our Constitution was printed on paper made of hemp. It was used as recently as World War II by the U.S. Government, and then promptly made illegal after the war was won. At a time when rhetoric is flying about becoming more self-sufficient in terms of energy, why is it illegal to grow this plant in this country? Ah, the female. The evil female plant — marijuana. It gets you high, it makes you laugh, it does not produce a hangover. Unlike alcohol, it does not result in bar fights or wife beating. So, why is this innocuous plant illegal? Is it a gateway drug? No, that would be alcohol, which is so heavily advertised in this country. My only conclusion as to why it is illegal, is that Corporate America, which owns Congress, would rather sell you Paxil, Zoloft, Xanax and other additive drugs, than allow you to grow a plant in your home without some of the profits going into their coffers. This policy is ludicrous. It has surely contributed to our dependency on foreign energy sources. Our policies have other countries literally laughing at our stupidity, most notably Canada, as well as several European nations (both Eastern and Western). You would not know this by paying attention to U.S. media sources though, as they tend not to elaborate on who is laughing at the United States this week. Please people, let’s stop the rhetoric and start thinking about how we can truly become self-sufficient.
With that I say good-bye and good luck.
All the best,
Andrew Lahde
Lots of interesting things in his letter; but to your point about money not buying happiness - you're right, but I would a million times over choose to have sufficient bank roll before tackling the more existential issues, lol.
Unrelated to your post, and just thinking out loud here: I'm not saying people can't be happy with their work - if you have something like that where your hobby/interests are aligned with making a living, then that is fucking awesome and you should never take it for granted. But for the vast majority of people (like me), average wage slave folks who will probably live in a cubicle until they are 60; if it doesn't matter to you what type of work you do and you've "lost your passion", then you fucking better make sure you get paid. I imagine the OP's plan is to bust his ass for like a decade and quit when he's got enough - GOOD. I hope he succeeds.
I've not seen this letter. I was referring to articles I've read online and, frankly, friends of friends.
Thanks for the good read though. That was hilarious.
But that is the whole point of the analogy, which you appear to be missing. Trading financial securities is pretty much the same as trading physical goods. Just because the good is more of an abstract idea and not tangible does not mean you are not matching up willing buyers and sellers. Nobody is being forced to buy or sell these securities.
No, I got the point completely and addressed it. It's not the same as trading physical goods. Nobody benefits except the lucky gambler who got it right.
Wow... it felt like reading my own story. Quite funny how similar your experience is to mine.
Spoiler alert: trading isn't what you think it is, and you'll get bored with it too :p loooooooong, boring hours these days, and not much to do...
To all the idiots who think they are qualified to criticize finance while they obviously know nothing about it, I can only urge you to at least learn about the subject before writing your crap.
just before you read my post: I do know about finance/trading, did my masters partly in this subject. I have many friends who work for banks, in quant positions etc.
I may be mistaken, but one big argument in favor of trading as "not a bad thing" is that there are people willing to buy and to sell. No one is being forced.
I don't see how this makes trading good. When some dictator gives money to mercenaries to kill civilians who are demonstrating, its an exchange "money vs service". And I think we can agree that neither the mercenaries or the dictator are "good" people. I am *not* saying that trading is as bad. I am just saying that sometimes there are people willing to buy/sell for the wrong reasons. And there are also stupid people buying stupid things. This is why laws exist. So that the only rule in the world is not money (hopefully?).
Closer to the topic: when a friend of mine, being an engineer, works on some new missile, I dont tell him he's evil. I just wonder why he's not putting is skills into something more rewarding "ethically". It does feel good to do a job that is even slightly beneficial to society, and that does not starve or kill anyone. And traders are educated enough to be able to pick, if they wanted to, such a job.
On November 09 2011 22:10 Yenticha wrote: just before you read my post: I do know about finance/trading, did my masters partly in this subject. I have many friends who work for banks, in quant positions etc.
I may be mistaken, but one big argument in favor of trading as "not a bad thing" is that there are people willing to buy and to sell. No one is being forced.
I don't see how this makes trading good. When some dictator gives money to mercenaries to kill civilians who are demonstrating, its an exchange "money vs service". And I think we can agree that neither the mercenaries or the dictator are "good" people. I am *not* saying that trading is as bad. I am just saying that sometimes there are people willing to buy/sell for the wrong reasons. And there are also stupid people buying stupid things. This is why laws exist. So that the only rule in the world is not money (hopefully?).
Closer to the topic: when a friend of mine, being an engineer, works on some new missile, I dont tell him he's evil. I just wonder why he's not putting is skills into something more rewarding "ethically". It does feel good to do a job that is even slightly beneficial to society, and that does not starve or kill anyone. And traders are educated enough to be able to pick, if they wanted to, such a job.
Just because you have theoretical knowledge and know how to price exotic options doesn't mean you understand anything about finance... I won't even answer to your baseless and silly comparison.
Why not do something more rewarding ethically? I don't know, why don't you ask any guy in marketing, or accountant, HR manager, lawyer, politician... most jobs aren't rewarding ethically at all. I'm tired of hearing all these people with middle management jobs in big firms giving lessons.
There's this idea that working in finance somehow means you're doing something bad, which is utterly bullshit. How about you try to explain how we're "fucking people up"? I'd be curious to see what people come up with. In general there is less evil in finance than in politics, journalism, or the corporate world to name just a few. And the part that is reprehensible is the doing of only a handful of people way above our age and paycheck.
It's posts like this that really impress me. You have the courage, determination, skill and knowledge to succeed for sure. Even in a system that resigns those in their first year to fail, I really don't think you will because you have those qualities that will not ALLOW you to fail. I know you will keep trying till you succeed and nothing short will be good enough.
That's exactly the kind of feeling I wish I had at this moment in my life. To be honest, I don't have the courage or understanding to stand up and drop what I am doing and say, "Ya know, I'm going to go for ___________ and if I succeed, I succeed and will be happier for it, and if I fail, I will at least know that I tried and did my best to try and succeed."
This kind of story makes me really happy though because you ARE trying, willing to risk a lot of time and effort into something that will test you, but you will definitely do well. And while I don't really understand financial markets or trading all that well, I do know that we are in some deep trouble and it's very dangerous out there, so the only piece of well-wishing I could offer is just to be careful and do what feels right, like what you're doing now.
Best of luck to you and would love to see some updates on how it goes.
But then hey, I said why not give it a chance. And I never regretted reading this. Very very good read and inspiring at the same time. I feel that what you wrote is very real, not something that you can make it up over the night nor the week.
Hope you can keep us posted on how things are in, say, 5 years? Cheers to you and GL HF.
So this will be my last "wall of text" post in here, but i'm going to use this post to answer comments and questions people have made. Firstly, i want to thank the absolutely incredible response i've had. I really never imagined anything like this - I wrote this mostly for myself, but I never imagined that the ideas would strike such a chord with so many people. So first i will make a reply saying thanks for all the encouragement, TL is an amazing place full of amazing people. In a lot of ways this is going to be the last time i will be very active on TL, because i suspect work is going to absolutely consume me (and i'll be loving every moment of it). Not that i was that active on TL except spamming the ADT thread.
I won't be commenting on anything about "traders being evil" other than a few specific things, since i've covered most of that already.
On November 08 2011 11:54 nanaoei wrote: I used to trade options and did alright at it (i was short lehman, yay) but the more i looked into it the more it looked like a circus held up by the statistical outliers that actually were successful in the markets. Still, there are people that are very successful doing this and i do still hold to the belief that if general macro-orientated (teehee) principles are held in high regard one can do reasonably well.
I hope that did not come across as negative, i wish the best of luck to to OP!
Theres all sorts of different prop trading, and all sorts of things work. There are some guys who sit with massive clips, and all they do is wait for a big piece of news all day and fire There are come guys who scalp markets like the bund all day and become absolutely amazing at understanding all the flows, nuances, how the algos interact and all these other things There is something called the "flipper" - in the old days there was a guy who would put in a HUGE stack of orders, to scare people and push the market price down, and then he would remove them straight away and reverse the trade the other way. Nowadays when this happens everyone knows its fake and it happens about 5 times a day, and there are people who make 2 ticks every time this happens, by buying into the flipper. 10 ticks a day can be a lot of money!
On November 08 2011 13:39 TBone- wrote: Man I love this quote "All i wanted to do was find the one thing i could really be good at, and get good at it and make it my passion." Can I get your name or how you wish to be called so I can credit you when I melt some faces with this knowledge?
Just PM me
On November 08 2011 15:20 wbirdy wrote: Great read OP, good luck. Your motivation to succeed reminds me of this video
Not the same, but its pretty damn inspiring.
Hehe i've seen this before. I did think of it, but only after i wrote the blog
On November 08 2011 15:25 l10f wrote: I know you can do it man. I've respected you since day 1 of meeting you on TL. Mostly because of your accent, but still. Good luck dude!
Haha man, sorry for sucking you bros into maplestory Thanks though, seems a lot of people love the accent
On November 08 2011 15:46 frodoguy wrote: i thought that bulge brackets look for really socially developed people, which doesnt seem to be you from reading the op. How exactly did you get the job there?
It depends. Firstly and foremost, practise. I've done countless numbers of interviews. In fact i used to charge people 100 dollars an hour to write their CV's and give them interview help/practise. To this day I still get nervous in some interviews and i still screw up sometimes. Also, BB's are kings are recognising talent. I've seen all sorts of wierd people in there - if you have a talent and you can fit in a role, theres a job for you. You just have to convince the interviewer that you have the talent beyond just being outgoing smart teamworking etc. For example, in a lot of my interviews, the first thing i start talking about is poker, my own trading. In particular, i talk about how much i've lost, how i got badly burned, and how i made lots of bad mistakes like averaging a lot. And then i tell them how i've been through all of that, and still managed to turn it around and make money in the long run
On November 08 2011 18:00 skipgamer wrote: This hurts to read, really. That paragraph... I've been there, I've done that... I ended up in a deep dark depressed hole after about 5 years of working my absolute ass off (indie games) and getting nowhere, I lost friends, I alienated family, I ended up in a shit load (excuse my french) of debt.
And then in a strange twist of fate, everything I ever worked on was lost in a bushfire. It was the exact opposite of my dreams (which were just to make enough money off indie games to be able to continue making indie games )
You are right though, the key to success is working hard, I agree, but from what I've learnt, it is not the end all be all, and IT DOES HURT when shit goes pear-shaped after years of working hard. I can't imagine anything in life hurts (apart from loss of family) as much as admitting defeat when you have gone all in on life on something that doesn't work out.
I'm not saying you wont be successful, in fact from the things you have done, the people you know, your knowledge of your industry, I'm almost certain you will be. But be careful with the "all I need to do is work hard to be successful" mantra.
Always prepare for failure, but never expect it. Good luck.
Ahh thats tough man. One of the big skills required in trading is coming back from when you're down. Not only do you have to come back from a losing position, but you have to do better, and somehow make the future succeed. A lot of people struggle at this (and in poker especially) and give up easily. Somehow, in a game which is full of luck, you have to pull through and get past luck to get a better outcome in the end. Absolutely I have to be prepared for the worst, and you're totally right. Realism and acceptance of realism is extremely important in anything to do with markets. It could go terribly! In the long run, everybody gets the same cards, but some people end up with more than others. I wish you the best of luck also, I hope it ends up well for you. Defeat can feel crushing, but you can rise up again to succeed!
On November 08 2011 19:44 phanto wrote: the best way to work hard as a goal is to not tell anybody about it. telling people about your goals and your intentions will most likely squish them as you'll already feel a sort of accomplishment.. or something like that. I read something about that.
Perhaps so. I'd be lying if this whole thread didn't stroke my ego a little bit haha.
Throughout the years when i was younger i've always been vying for attention, because i felt like i had learned all these things yet nobody cared/noticed. I felt like my social awkwardness always got in the way, or that my personality just wasn't one that was likable. Over the years i became more and more accepting of this, and began to realize and find things which I wanted to be successful in, on my own. Accepting one's insecurities is i feel, most of the battle in conquering it.
Slowly in my life, i started doing things more and more because i wanted to do it, and not because i wanted other people to like me for doing it. Still, some people motivation helps - its never 100% one way or the other. Probably the thing i most enjoyed just doing for myself was playing guitar, some old single player games (chrono trigger anyone?), reading some books. And trading. Funny to say it, but trading i got into of my own accord. Yeah, its a cool and "sexy" way to make money, but it simply fits my personality so well, it's what i really want to do. I understand that most people just don't understand it, and kinda loathe it. But thats OK with me, cause i still wanna do it and love it.
On November 08 2011 20:20 blahz0r wrote: Holy walls of text! Tell the story about the airline stock you were mentioning on IRC =\
Haha i love you man. I'm surprised more people didn't comment on the evil trader selling airlines on sept 11th but there you go lol
On November 08 2011 21:15 nibbles wrote: Did I meet you at the Singapore TL meetup? I'm glad you have a sure direction for your life
Yes you did! I was going to go to singapore this winter, but as you may have noticed, my plans have changed
On November 08 2011 22:01 Twistacles wrote: How can you live with yourself?
I'm able to go to sleep at night because i sleep on a pile of money
On November 08 2011 22:10 MIsterToto wrote: I'll just quote this bit, because it strucks me as the most biased, but before going into a a rant about your post, I'm gonna ask the OP: Have you ever read ANYTHING about non-neoclassical economic theory? Or any economic theory at all? Because you are talking some crazy shit, man.
lol
On November 08 2011 23:18 Deadeight wrote: Even though I think you're a BM arsehole, I'm glad you've found something that will make you happy. Good luck.
wat? I'm bm cause of this thread, or did i cheese you on ladder/maplestory/something else?
On November 08 2011 23:36 Grovbolle wrote: While reading the whole: "I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession." my internal music player in my head was playing, and the song was: "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH"
Great blog, hope you succeed. I love capitalism
hahaha that video is amazing lol. I'm British though, you guys still need to stop missing out half of the letters in the word doughnut
On November 08 2011 23:53 RQShatter wrote: No offense to you but 90% of this feels fabricated.
I'll take your 10:1 odds and put 5k on it. Would you like an interest rate option with that?
On November 08 2011 23:55 Ingenol wrote: Great post. Can you tell us more about how you will spend these 12 hours/day? I'm asking as someone who is just becoming interested in trading. How will you structure your time and learning? Thanks and good luck!
2-3 months of training first. Markets are open for about 11 hours (or active) - but you gotta spend 1/2 hour each end to get your head around what you've done during the day, and to prepare before hand.
On November 09 2011 00:49 zatic wrote: You keep talking about the bleak economic prospect of the eurozone, and about a soon coming recession. Two questions about this: First of all a eurozone recession is pretty much what everyone expects within the next few months to a year - how is your knowledge helping you beat the market? And second, even if you have more insight - how is the general idea of coming recession (which seems very vague and not too time bound) helping you in day trading or short term transactions generally?
Well, for a start, not everyone expected certain things in the market. For a good amount of time, theres a heavy mispricing in the market. For example, its a 100% given now that Greece is gonna default. Last friday, me and a few of my friends started talking well - greece is gonna default - its a distraction, the next big one is italy, what happens if they cant payoff their debt anymore? In a way, there is still a heavy mispricing in the market. Theres massive short interest in the markets, but markets havnt tanked. We are still sitting with EUstoxx around the 2300 level or so. Why is that? My personal prediction is that the things that are priced in, that are obvious, will sort themselves out. Markets are gonna rally on it. But the fundamentals won't change, and we are still shaky. The EFSF isn't gonna work. A lot of people don't realize this - the only way to get out is if the ECB starts printing, and they de-facto said that they won't do this. Doesn't mean the rules wont change of course. When the market is done rallying, something is gonna happen, something big, something we didn't expect. Something nobody could have predicted. The bear market begins when the last bull has bought - when everyone is placated, everyone is thinking "ahh its all better now, we got through the crisis!" - then BAM, thats when its gonna tumble. Markets seem to be OK given that there is so much worry atm. When markets start placating, feeling safe, thats when i'll be worrying the most.
Secondly, Understanding things is part of the game. You HAVE to understand economics, fundamental ideas, and how the market thinks and feels in order to understand how different things will affect markets. If you understand how markets move, and why they move in a certain way - firstly you can understand what to do in certain times. You can understand that theres gonna be a selloff tomorrow, when nobody else knows. You can capture a long term market view and understand how it fits into a short term position. You can understand what everyone's woes and fears are. Trading is an information war - the better your inductive reasoning and experience, the more clear and precise your information is going to be and the more edge you will have. Every last bit counts! For example, i asked the question - if Greece defaults and exits the euro, whats going to happen to EURUSD? Is it going to rally? Is it going to tank? And are you going to be there, on the screen, ready to make that decision, and take action when it happens? Or are you going to sit and stare?
On November 09 2011 03:03 OgerGolg wrote: Nice Post, and I like your attitude to chase your dream and all the hard work talk (its always the same talk, because everybody has to legitimatize his or her behaviour before his conscience or other people). Its a friendly way to handle things and a hard one for sure. but in generel I hope you and your kind of branch will crash. you wont crash, because you are needed (and have good allies). but the profession you're in is a *****, and even with passion the ***** isnt getting any better. sorry.
lol. I just thought this post was particularly funny
On November 09 2011 05:26 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: I'm going to try something new here and write my reply as I read. You have Aspergers and lead a tough social life. I can definitely relate to that, considering I too have Aspergers and have a tough social life. Too bad I'm also a perfectionist or something, because I can recall dozens of past social errors and get embarassed with the recollection. You are a baller. Steve freaking Arneil, anyone? Seems you have the same quasi-perfectionist issues I have, along with the commitment ones. Annoying as hell, aren't they? You KNOW you want to be good at this, you know you should enjoy this, but you don't and you quit. You are a baller at life. Taking control like a boss. Absolute awesome read. You gonna make an edition #2?
Steve Arneil is a man who i will never forget. He's a real baller. I remember how he pushed us and pushed us. In a private school where kids were coddled around, treated with political correctness etc, he comes in and forces us into shape to be the best we can. On the very first day of training, my stance was slightly incorrect and we were all standing rock still. He sweeped me off the floor and i fell flat on my face. Then he picked me up, put me in the right stance, and said, "now you are strong" - He kicked me hard with his shin into my thigh, and it was on the verge of tears. But he patted my face and said "good - you see? Your stance is strong now. You took the pain, but you are still standing strong!"
On November 09 2011 06:08 cursor wrote: "You" caused the housing bubble/crisis. Very true. The average, low to middle income house buyer caused the crash. That is very astute. Because, I know when I bought my house, I marched right in there and told them what my APR was going to be, what my maximum loan was, what the loan period was going to be and what my down payment was. If a bank didn't accept, then in true capitalist fashion, I went to another one that would accept my terms.
In case you cant tell, I'm bullshitting. I don't know if the OP has ever bought a house, but the banks are the ones that make the loans and it's up to the buyer to accept them. I would usually dismiss this as trolling, but you can tell this guy is 100% serious. People take mortgages based on what the bank offers. The offers from almost all banks are 95% similar based on your credit and your history. The Banks were making bullshit, speculative loans, and a lot of the crisis, as you correctly pointed out- was designed to benefit the very few.
You should really thank your lucky stars that Socialist America came to the rescue with 700 billion dollars for this mockery of a financial system, and that the old-boy Federal Reserve has, under the table, cranked out another 14 trillion over the last 10 years to whichever too-big-to-fail bank was failing at the time. Not to mention, that most banks already loan out at a 9 to 1 ratio or worse, especially BofA... this shit does not work, and will eventually collapse.
Not to digress, but really, all people can do is say yes or no- the banks make the loans. 95% of those Adjustable and Refinance loans should not have been made, period.
So a bunch of people took out a bunch of loans they couldn't afford, and then defaulted on them. I hope you don't take out a loan you cant afford! But the key here is understanding the difference between insolvency and illiquidity. But thats alright, go socialist america!
On November 09 2011 06:24 Ripps wrote: Interesting. I'm puzzled by people who say this is "inspiring" though.
Are you sure you're asking yourself the right questions?
I never heard you say that this is something you actually like doing. Is this really your dream? Is this something that will make your life better, or more fufilling? What is implicit in your concept of "success"? What do you really gain out of this undertaking? Is there something else that you'd rather be doing?
I just want to make sure that you're not doing this because its something you're "supposed" to do based on your schooling. You seem very cynical about the whole thing. That's not a very good place to start from.
Theres a few posts like this with a similar sentiment. Yes, i absolutely want to do this. Yes, i will maintain a work life balance. I really, really do want to do this, and its the first time in my life im really grabbing the nettle with my bare hands.
Once i asked my dad how he managed to work such long hours and so hard in his life, and be so happy. He talked about a lot of things, but he said one thing in particular which struck a chord "When you have little free time, you treasure it all the more. Now with your free time you value it, and truly pursue the things you want to do. The fact i only get to spend so little time with you makes the time i do spend with you all the more special"
On November 09 2011 07:25 Jedclark wrote: I dislike this. You say frequently you're not in it for the money, and then say a few times, "I'm going to earn my big bonus", and the worst part was, "I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession."
That's pretty... horrific. That you're having thoughts of gaining money off others misfortune. I don't particularly know why this is getting applauded.
I said i won't be earning my big bonus . In fact, in my line of work, theres no bailout. If you lose your money, you lose your personal wealth. It's the most risky form of trading, and requires the most discipline. But i like trading cause its fun. Its no surprise that many traders who have made their millions keep on going and going and going. Markets are the culmination of all the information in the world. Its exciting stuff! Obviously, i said that with a little exaggeration. You can take the other side of the trade - in 3 years time when this is all over, markets have bottomed out, and the last bear has sold. Everyone is shitting their pants and it feels like the great depression. And this is when i'm gonna buy. 2/3 of the worlds money is in bonds. When this money moves into stocks, you're going to see the biggest and greatest bull market this century. People are going to become insanely rich, and i'll probably retire lol
On November 09 2011 08:30 Bane_ wrote: What it is about this particular endeavour that makes you feel like you'll be able to sustain your interest/commitment beyond that tipping point where you usually bail out and seek something new?
I feel like i answered this already but to clarify- This is me going all in. If i do this, theres no "out". I might fail, but really, failure isn't an option anymore. And this is exactly what i want to do, and what i've wanted to do for a long time. I've been taking the easy, safe, netted path for too long. This is my chance to dive into the jungle, where i really belong
On November 09 2011 09:55 fortheGG wrote: It relates more to them getting bonuses(that the media point out whenever they can) when they get their gambles right and the taxpayer having to foot bills when they don't.
Prop traders never needed bailing out. In fact, when idiots (lol kweku) screw up, the bank takes a direct hit and nobody bails out (he wasn't a prop trader, but he fudged the system and tried to prop and failed) When prop traders screw up, the company flat out loses money and you get fired
On November 09 2011 11:43 Gummy wrote: 5/5. When I read this, I heard you reading it in your beautiful British accent in my head. You are an inspiration, Vince!
You could even say that you're
*sunglasses*
a Vincepiration!
Hahahaha. I'll never forget our maplestory times. I don't believe how popular that thread became, it's crazy. I turned it into maplestory hardcore as a joke lol
On November 09 2011 12:39 .Aar wrote: Great read.
Vincent, right? You always came across as a pretty thoughtful guy when I played Maple under you as my guild leader. I'm glad you've found some direction in life.
ps your accent is sexy
Its nice someone thought of me as THE GUILD LEADER. I'm pretty sure roffles just thought i was that guy leeching all the family exp so i could get the most double exp bonus :D And everyone seems to love the accent haha. Tea and scones.. bro
On November 09 2011 22:10 Yenticha wrote: just before you read my post: I do know about finance/trading, did my masters partly in this subject. I have many friends who work for banks, in quant positions etc.
I may be mistaken, but one big argument in favor of trading as "not a bad thing" is that there are people willing to buy and to sell. No one is being forced.
I don't see how this makes trading good. When some dictator gives money to mercenaries to kill civilians who are demonstrating, its an exchange "money vs service". And I think we can agree that neither the mercenaries or the dictator are "good" people. I am *not* saying that trading is as bad. I am just saying that sometimes there are people willing to buy/sell for the wrong reasons. And there are also stupid people buying stupid things. This is why laws exist. So that the only rule in the world is not money (hopefully?).
Closer to the topic: when a friend of mine, being an engineer, works on some new missile, I dont tell him he's evil. I just wonder why he's not putting is skills into something more rewarding "ethically". It does feel good to do a job that is even slightly beneficial to society, and that does not starve or kill anyone. And traders are educated enough to be able to pick, if they wanted to, such a job.
Hey i also did partly a masters in the subject! I quit though, i didn't learn anything useful When i was talking to the course director about my withdrawal he was like "Your CV is really important you know" - so what, you mean the course content doesn't actually help?
On November 10 2011 04:46 PeaNuT_T wrote: Your name is scarily close to "PRBarlog" the ssf4/mvc player.
Oh haha thats not me. I've never really gone under any other nicks. I'd be really scared if people tried to dig up my entire life and judge me on it lol, but fortunately people arn't that stalkerish Or maybe they are? I just have to hope that i've got enough integrity in life to not be too worried about it
On November 10 2011 06:05 EricCartman wrote: who is your brother?
Glorat of course! http://glorat.net/ Hes now a tech guy in Morgan Stanley doing a lot of quant like work and specialises in calculating yield curves. Recently hes found a steady girlfriend (lucky him) and has started doing weights to try and get stronger than me (hahah good luck with that)
On November 10 2011 06:50 synapse wrote: Didn't you make the TL maplestory guild? <3
Haha thats me. Am i still the guildleader on there? I wonder what happened to my account. I wonder why i don't have the password for the TL channel lol
---
Lastly, thanks guys. This will be my last wall of text post, for a very long time. I won't be very much active on TL anymore (even though i'm mostly a lurker anyway, and i only spam ADT) because i'll be focusing on work. Maybe in a few months, years or w/e time, i'll be able to post again to see how things have been going. I'll still be hanging around, and i might answer some more questions individually if they pop up
I didn't answer everything, in particular - thanks so much for your encouragement and support. TL really is an amazing place, i've made so many friends here, friends i trust so much, i'm willing to tell them the deepest, darkest secrets of my life, and expose my inner being. Here on TL i can really and truly be myself without having to hide behind any masks.
I'd like to remind you all that, this blog is just the story of one person in his stage of life. Each of you are special in your own way, and have your own stories to tell When you post in the future, try to remember that behind each post, lies a real human being, someone with thoughts and feelings. Real people, with diverse personalities and backgrounds. Each with their own struggle in life, each with their own dreams, goals, successes and failures.
ha, funny how people reacted mostly (only?) on the "did my masters" thing. Obviously its nothing like actually working in finance..bleh...
So basically, trading is bad, BUT, since many other jobs are also bad, its ok? I am *not* saying that an ethically questionable job is completely evil. I am just saying that traders are smart enough to have the *choice*. The OP seems really smart. I actually really liked what you said at the end of your wall of text. It looks like you do understand the consequences of trading as it is done today, but see them through a very cynical eye... makes me sad, but whatever.
I recently got an offer at a prop firm, one of the better ones. I start work next week. I'll be working 12 hours a day. No holidays (except maybe christmas/new years and some public holidays when markets are closed) I've dropped out of uni to do this. I got a degree, i don't need a masters anymore I'm not going to be a trader in a big bank, trying to get my big bonus every year Probably, i won't make any money in my first year. For the next 12 months, i'm likely to be breakeven or worse, like a failed, skilless uni graduate.
,
For the first time, i am going to do something i REALLY want to do. I never wanted to work in a big bank. I never wanted to make vast sums of money (even though i will). I never wanted to do a degree, do a masters. All i wanted to do was find the one thing i could really be good at, and get good at it and make it my passion. All i wanted to do is trade.
Your real passion, as you put it, is being good at something.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
The key to success is energy wisely invested in correct places, in correct ways, in correct times with correct people, with correct understanding that brings you what you truly, deeply desire. If this is not in place, then no matter how much hard work you put into it, you will not achieve success or your success will be superficial, or you will come to realize that what you achieved and thought to be success is not success.
Imagine you achieve what you want to work so hard for - you are truly, indisputably good at it. Your dream is fulfilled. This is a place where you will have to face the question: why was this my dream ? Maybe you will be satisfied. What if you won't, however ? "Then I'll think about it" - yes.. but you will feel it, those massive amounts of effort and hard work that were simply misplaced, all those sacrifices.. just how would it feel to learn that they were misdirected ? That they didn't really bring you what you thought they would ?
I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with you but determining which goal or destination is best is far more important and should come before dedication to a goal or destination - and it is actually very rarely the case in a society because, by the social values, what matters is having a goal and success is achieving a goal. The equation is: hard work + achieving a goal = gratification.
Pretty much i've spent the whole of my life being insecure and looking for purpose. Heavily laden with autistic/aspergers tendencies and other socially awkward factors, life for me has been a continuous struggle of finding things which I think I could be good at, and quickly peaking or being frustrated at my inability to improve.
Pretty much most of my life social interactions suffered because these things were secondary compared to "getting good" at stuff. Whether that be academic, health, gaming or a whole bunch of other things.
I think pretty much everyone is insecure, the difference is in degrees rather than having it or not having it. It follows then, that everyone is looking for ways to deal with this insecurity. In most cases, this means self-imposed security of alignment to a general social value, like i.e hard work, achieving something etc that can lead one to being accepted and appreciated by others. What is missing in this approach is that it doesn't really deal with the cause of insecurity - it is yet another diversion.
On November 10 2011 23:08 Chooser wrote: What do you do when you have no passions, desires, aspirations and no motivation?
What do you choose to do?
That's pretty deep, and unfortunately, I think that's what a lot of people are going through right now in many places. I think what's going through people's minds is that there is no clear path to the future, and in many cases, people have to rely on themselves to come to some kind of conclusion as to how to proceed forward. It's scary though because there's no right way to think about it and with so many possibilities it causes paralysis in people's thinking and in the end they do nothing. So instead, people begin looking for others to make decisions for them and lead them.
When you ask yourself, "What gets me excited to wake up in the morning," what is your answer? If you don't have one, the one thing I suggest is just being open to everything around you, join some clubs, talk to everyone you can, be friendly / personable. That way you can find something that interests you.
But it's just like the OP has said, he has a passion and is going to pursue it. There's nothing worse, I think, in life than just going through the motions without goals or something to work for. I'm still trying to figure things out myself, but there's no rush . Just make the most of every moment and try your best.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
In what way are traders stealing money. All they're doing is buying and selling, more or less the same as a trader on ebay. The only difference is the market they trade in is harder for people to understand, and thus is seen by society to be simply fabricating money.
On November 09 2011 06:58 Tomazi wrote: If the people needing liquidity were doing something worthwhile, society will (would) help make it happen.
Do you think the stock market would work as well as it does to value companies if there were no liquidity in the market. You'd have to wait days between trades, as only those wanting to hold long-term would be buying, which in turn raises the question of who would you be buying from. Imagine if you wanted a loan from a bank, and they told you that instead of just giving you the loan themselves (providing liquidity in the market of savings/loans) that you would have to personally find somebody who was willing to lend you that money. Do you not see how this is inefficient and incredibly backwards?
Liquidity in the markets is worthwhile, and society has evidently made it happen.
And to the OP, great blog, really inspiring.
Within this capitalist system, you are right.
Except the trading and ebay analogy, it's very flawed even in this system. The end result on ebay is that some consumer gets what they want, even if the guy selling is just trading his way up. Financial trading is mostly with theoretical money.
But that is the whole point of the analogy, which you appear to be missing. Trading financial securities is pretty much the same as trading physical goods. Just because the good is more of an abstract idea and not tangible does not mean you are not matching up willing buyers and sellers. Nobody is being forced to buy or sell these securities.
On November 09 2011 08:54 WhiteDog wrote: Why trader ? lol Your dream is to be the "scum"... There is something off with that. Your dream is making money, I'd say it's a shitty dream...
I'm guessing you don't really understand how the financial system work, and are just going along with the stereotypical view that people have at the moment thanks to the media and governments using traders and banks as scapegoats.
Listen, I know well how the finance work. Don't try to play me on that. But you, did you read his post? He is saying he want to be a "scum", all he wants is to make money. A work is for money, a passion and a vocation doesn't care about that for me, and, as some people said in this thread, he will come to understand it one day or another. It is a shitty dream in my opinion, and my opinion's arguments are absolute on my opinion.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
In what way are traders stealing money. All they're doing is buying and selling, more or less the same as a trader on ebay. The only difference is the market they trade in is harder for people to understand, and thus is seen by society to be simply fabricating money.
On November 09 2011 06:58 Tomazi wrote: If the people needing liquidity were doing something worthwhile, society will (would) help make it happen.
Do you think the stock market would work as well as it does to value companies if there were no liquidity in the market. You'd have to wait days between trades, as only those wanting to hold long-term would be buying, which in turn raises the question of who would you be buying from. Imagine if you wanted a loan from a bank, and they told you that instead of just giving you the loan themselves (providing liquidity in the market of savings/loans) that you would have to personally find somebody who was willing to lend you that money. Do you not see how this is inefficient and incredibly backwards?
Liquidity in the markets is worthwhile, and society has evidently made it happen.
And to the OP, great blog, really inspiring.
Within this capitalist system, you are right.
Except the trading and ebay analogy, it's very flawed even in this system. The end result on ebay is that some consumer gets what they want, even if the guy selling is just trading his way up. Financial trading is mostly with theoretical money.
But that is the whole point of the analogy, which you appear to be missing. Trading financial securities is pretty much the same as trading physical goods. Just because the good is more of an abstract idea and not tangible does not mean you are not matching up willing buyers and sellers. Nobody is being forced to buy or sell these securities.
On November 09 2011 08:54 WhiteDog wrote: Why trader ? lol Your dream is to be the "scum"... There is something off with that. Your dream is making money, I'd say it's a shitty dream...
I'm guessing you don't really understand how the financial system work, and are just going along with the stereotypical view that people have at the moment thanks to the media and governments using traders and banks as scapegoats.
Listen, I know well how the finance work. Don't try to play me on that. But you, did you read his post? He is saying he want to be a "scum", all he wants is to make money. A work is for money, a passion and a vocation doesn't care about that for me, and, as some people said in this thread, he will come to understand it one day or another. It is a shitty dream in my opinion, and my opinion's arguments are absolute on my opinion.
quoting out of context at its best. let's say someone was passionate about starcraft and wanted to reach code S by being the "scum who steals ladder points." then someone responds as so: "He is saying he wants to be 'scum' all he wants is ladder points. A passion for starcraft doesn't care about ladder points and he will understand that one day. It's a shitty dream in my opinion."
Yeah, you guys have a point about how his passion isn't admirable or anything but it's not like he thinks it is. You're focusing way too much on his choice of words and not actually bothering to consider what he means when he says that.
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
In what way are traders stealing money. All they're doing is buying and selling, more or less the same as a trader on ebay. The only difference is the market they trade in is harder for people to understand, and thus is seen by society to be simply fabricating money.
On November 09 2011 06:58 Tomazi wrote: If the people needing liquidity were doing something worthwhile, society will (would) help make it happen.
Do you think the stock market would work as well as it does to value companies if there were no liquidity in the market. You'd have to wait days between trades, as only those wanting to hold long-term would be buying, which in turn raises the question of who would you be buying from. Imagine if you wanted a loan from a bank, and they told you that instead of just giving you the loan themselves (providing liquidity in the market of savings/loans) that you would have to personally find somebody who was willing to lend you that money. Do you not see how this is inefficient and incredibly backwards?
Liquidity in the markets is worthwhile, and society has evidently made it happen.
And to the OP, great blog, really inspiring.
Within this capitalist system, you are right.
Except the trading and ebay analogy, it's very flawed even in this system. The end result on ebay is that some consumer gets what they want, even if the guy selling is just trading his way up. Financial trading is mostly with theoretical money.
But that is the whole point of the analogy, which you appear to be missing. Trading financial securities is pretty much the same as trading physical goods. Just because the good is more of an abstract idea and not tangible does not mean you are not matching up willing buyers and sellers. Nobody is being forced to buy or sell these securities.
On November 09 2011 08:54 WhiteDog wrote: Why trader ? lol Your dream is to be the "scum"... There is something off with that. Your dream is making money, I'd say it's a shitty dream...
I'm guessing you don't really understand how the financial system work, and are just going along with the stereotypical view that people have at the moment thanks to the media and governments using traders and banks as scapegoats.
Listen, I know well how the finance work. Don't try to play me on that. But you, did you read his post? He is saying he want to be a "scum", all he wants is to make money. A work is for money, a passion and a vocation doesn't care about that for me, and, as some people said in this thread, he will come to understand it one day or another. It is a shitty dream in my opinion, and my opinion's arguments are absolute on my opinion.
You know, i was in a chat with some prop guys and I said "hey did you hear that rumor about an explosion somewhere" And then he said "i hope France explodes, then i can make 10 ticks on this trade"
All i could think was "lol"
edit: btw i'm serious this is actually a convo i had earlier in the week
So i'm chasing my dream. I'm putting everything aside to do it. I'll be sitting in front of a screen every day, for long hours, for the best years of my life. Nobody is ever going to hear about me, i'm not gonna become famous. I'm not gonna contribute to society. I'm going to be the scum whos gonna make my fortune from the next financial crisis and global recession. And i'll be damned, i'm going to put my heart and soul into it. I'm going to work the hardest i've ever worked in my life. I'm going to work so hard its going to be more important than eating, more important than sleeping. The guys i know who work at these places sleep about 4 hours a night.
The absolute key to success is working hard. You don't need talent, you don't need gifts, contacts or luck. You need to work hard, and work your damn ass off.
I'm going to work so hard, and why? Because i'm chasing my dream.
What if I wrote a blog post with the exact same kind of cheesy hollywood chasing a dream crap except I said wanted to be a successful serial killer? Or something more innocuous but nonetheless unethical like world's greatest pickpocket? Or maybe something legal like the CEO of Monsanto or Nike or dictator of some country somewhere? Would people find that endearing or inspirational?
The difference is he's calling himself "scum" for effect. Just because the guy is going to work for a company that makes smart investments doesn't mean he's going to steal everyone's money. FFS people.
OP, I don't see why you are so hard on yourself about everything. It's so much better to be optimistic about your abilities or else you form mental barriers.
His passion is for an industry that contributes nothing to society. It is, in effect, stealing from people. Just with no face to blame. Commercial banking is actually better. Trading is making money from money because fuck everyone else.
I am proud that my career path will be beneficial for humanity...
In what way are traders stealing money. All they're doing is buying and selling, more or less the same as a trader on ebay. The only difference is the market they trade in is harder for people to understand, and thus is seen by society to be simply fabricating money.
On November 09 2011 06:58 Tomazi wrote: If the people needing liquidity were doing something worthwhile, society will (would) help make it happen.
Do you think the stock market would work as well as it does to value companies if there were no liquidity in the market. You'd have to wait days between trades, as only those wanting to hold long-term would be buying, which in turn raises the question of who would you be buying from. Imagine if you wanted a loan from a bank, and they told you that instead of just giving you the loan themselves (providing liquidity in the market of savings/loans) that you would have to personally find somebody who was willing to lend you that money. Do you not see how this is inefficient and incredibly backwards?
Liquidity in the markets is worthwhile, and society has evidently made it happen.
And to the OP, great blog, really inspiring.
Within this capitalist system, you are right.
Except the trading and ebay analogy, it's very flawed even in this system. The end result on ebay is that some consumer gets what they want, even if the guy selling is just trading his way up. Financial trading is mostly with theoretical money.
But that is the whole point of the analogy, which you appear to be missing. Trading financial securities is pretty much the same as trading physical goods. Just because the good is more of an abstract idea and not tangible does not mean you are not matching up willing buyers and sellers. Nobody is being forced to buy or sell these securities.
On November 09 2011 08:54 WhiteDog wrote: Why trader ? lol Your dream is to be the "scum"... There is something off with that. Your dream is making money, I'd say it's a shitty dream...
I'm guessing you don't really understand how the financial system work, and are just going along with the stereotypical view that people have at the moment thanks to the media and governments using traders and banks as scapegoats.
Listen, I know well how the finance work. Don't try to play me on that. But you, did you read his post? He is saying he want to be a "scum", all he wants is to make money. A work is for money, a passion and a vocation doesn't care about that for me, and, as some people said in this thread, he will come to understand it one day or another. It is a shitty dream in my opinion, and my opinion's arguments are absolute on my opinion.
You know, i was in a chat with some prop guys and I said "hey did you hear that rumor about an explosion somewhere" And then he said "i hope France explodes, then i can make 10 ticks on this trade"
All i could think was "lol"
edit: btw i'm serious this is actually a convo i had earlier in the week
That's exactly why finance is the worst... The guy saying "stealing the ladder point" is somehow comparable to making money out of a financial crisis is actually making fun of all the guys that lost their jobs due to the crisis.
I'm sure you are a nice guy by the way, I'm not judging you. And in a way I am cheering for you because having a dream is a good thing/ but your "dream" is not something I will applaud you for.
I love TL for these posts . I think I speak for everyone when i say that we all have doubts in ourselves, and reading posts like these make me feel more secure about myself. this site definitely the one place I know I can go to if I need words of encouragement or a sense of direction.
Ardent human endeavor is inherently captivating. But people who pursue something for self fulfillment without a higher ideal are just more automatons, even if they are impressive compared to those with even less direction and awareness.
Man... I once aimed for a higher purpose. It took all my effort to just stay on the path. But it was awesome. I was the best person I could be. But at some point I just couldn't step up to the challenge anymore.
Man... it's still in my mind. "You should try again. Forget about all those failures." I'm probably gona regret this so much latter on, but I don't have it in me right now. And everyday makes it that much harder to go back.