EPTA dota support - Page 3
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kefif
Poland264 Posts
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
Yeah, Jango (Drum of Endurance in DotA2) should actually be there. That's a mistake. I think hero difficulties can be discussed to death, but it has to be kept simple for newer players if you ask me and not feed them with two many options/things so they forget their context. As people get better and understand the game, they will realize that ES is not the easiest hero to play, but it's easy to get a hold of. | ||
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yuyue
1 Post
 Playing dota since...the beginning, but I'm a pubber, it's interesting to know all the difference of the play styles. Trying to get a key participating on all contests, good luck to all! http://steamcommunity.com/id/inyue | ||
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Ikuu
United Kingdom97 Posts
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
On October 31 2011 22:51 Ognam wrote:I'm not so sure about giving heroes easy/medium/hard rankings either. What do you mean when you say a hero is easy? Easy to play well? Easy to not feed with? It's hard to play a clutch ES. It's hard to not feed with CM. It's meant to be: I'm new to the game. I actually didn't play before. What heroes should I look to be playing and what should I probably wait a bit with. What hero concepts are fairly simple so I can use the spells in a decent manner and not just get bored or angry at the hard execution. I think ES and Sand King is two heroes where it kind of shows the difference of what I mean. ES is a very hard hero to master and it'll take a lot of getting used to. But he's fairly simple and I think new players will have fun playing him because they can do what they're supposed to! Sand King is fairly easy too, but understanding the Sand Storm with fadetime and the channeling with Dagger, etc. is definitely harder than ES. So while they're both hard heroes to master, the concept of ES is easier to understand and start with. | ||
Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
On October 31 2011 22:56 Ikuu wrote: Also worth mentioning other items that are great to grab on Support like Medalion or Vlads. Also as someone mentioned you need Blink Dagger on SK and ES for them to truly shine. Yeah, if you look under Notes under the heroes, it's mentioned that you need a blink dagger on those already. :-) | ||
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viisual
United States1 Post
Nice writeup, I like to see that I've been playing support properly over the past few weeks. I'm a huge fan of Crystal Maiden and the Lich. CM is easy to play, takes a bit to master, but with some communication with your lane partner, especially if they have a disable, it becomes quickly apparent how good of a support/babysitter this caster is. Lich is good fun too; landing that deny every time for mana just feels evil; I love that ability and don't get me started on his ultimate, well placed it can decimate opponents. I look forward to the forthcoming Ganker and Carry write-ups, assuming they are coming!  | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
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PetitCrabe
Canada410 Posts
Who needs support though? Everybody you just need 5 carries to pubstomp!  jk. I think es is my favourite support to have in my team but ihate playing him | ||
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Narcind
Sweden2489 Posts
On October 31 2011 23:06 tyCe wrote: Thanks for the miniguide. I never played DotA other than casually but I've been watching some streams and commentaries lately. I've noticed that junging is not a given in every team comp. Why is it worth having five laners (including roamers and babysitters) rather than having at least one designated jungler every game as in LoL? Because you may not have a hero that can jungle in your lineup, and the reason for not picking one could be one of several reasons, maybe you're planning on running a trilane, maybe the jungling hero doesn't fit into your lineup, maybe it doesn't work well with the strategy you're going to try to run, etc. | ||
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haramarina
Philippines2 Posts
I can do that in DotA but not sure if he is the same in DotA2 since the beta is still waiting for me. | ||
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Midas_
268 Posts
Maybe a little more detailed stuff: -If you play a hardcore babysitter pick up some more healthpots instead of clarities. -Buy your Solomid hero an extra healing pot at the beginning (especially if you already know that he is up against a strong sololaner) -If you have the gold buy a TP for your carry, when he was killed or went back to heal. Some Trilane basics: If you play trilane (Carry + 2 Supports) -Don't steal gold from your carry - ever, focus only on denying / harassing the enemy. -If your carry has an easy time stay out of his exp range. (go for a gank or creeppull) -Doublepull neutrals and get some farm/exp and even deny a chunk of exp from the enemy. As some people already said I think Earthshaker is not an easy hero to play especially for beginners. Positioning with him is crucial and with a wrong placed fissure you can fuck up your team. My favorite Supporthero by far is Dazzle because he's just awesome to play and you feel like a boss when you save someone with shallow grave. =D | ||
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LapsedPacifist
United States2 Posts
Support is the most fun role to play on a good team, but can also be very frustrating when you get bad teammates since your abilities tend to not scale late game. If you're new to the game, it is the best way to learn since you'll have to develop a good sense of the game's flow, where you need to be, and how to correctly participate in the teamfights. | ||
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cody1024d
107 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On October 31 2011 23:06 tyCe wrote: Thanks for the miniguide. I never played DotA other than casually but I've been watching some streams and commentaries lately. I've noticed that junging is not a given in every team comp. Why is it worth having five laners (including roamers and babysitters) rather than having at least one designated jungler every game as in LoL? In LoL not utilizing the jungle spells a loss in competitive games. Jungling is becoming more common these days in DotA as well. A few months ago, the only junglers seen were Enigma, Chen, and Enchantress, with the first using Eidelons to farm and the latter two dominating creep. These days though, Lycanthrope, Furion, and even Storm Spirit can be found in the jungle. but you don't need to have a jungler in DotA. There are heroes in DotA such as Lich that are very capable of soloing a lane against multiple heroes, but for the most part being alone sucks. Sure, you don't have to share the experience... but that's assuming you can get close enough to witness enemy creeps dying. Assuming your team is playing with a carry, that means that if the carry is left alone he/she will be getting neither farm nor experience if the other team has more than one hero in the lane. The non-farming hero can simply walk in front of the creep wave and keep your carry at bay. Having a defensive jungler on your team means a layer of protection and possibly ganks, but they can be shut down somewhat through wards. And that protection still only occurs when the jungler comes out. A Lycanthrope jungling in the forest next to your lane isn't going to come out to gank if things aren't going well for you--his priority is in farming. Enigma is going to work toward a Soul Ring/Blink Dagger (in most cases) and won't be spending too much time coming to assist you. Enchantress and Chen will come to gank, but they need to have the right creep. Having a jungler as a protective measure is only protective when they are being proactive. In most situations, they aren't going to save you from being stunned/slowed/nuked to death unless they are very nearby. Junglers make for decent roamers, but once again that's dependent on the creep. Very well-played Chens and Enchantresses can control the map through roaming, but they still will need a few levels and the right creep(s) to be able to gank effectively. Heroes like Earthshaker, Sven, and Vengeful Spirit need only one level in their stun to be able to effectively roam and gank, and can also ward while at it. Junglers want to maximize their time spent killing neutral creep, and won't really be going out of their way to ward. Okay whoops I shouldn't be writing an essay on this. Basically junglers are good and are trending right now, but they're not necessary. Oftentimes carries will transition between farming the safe lane and their jungle come the midgame, and if your team is down a hero in a lane that lane can easily be lost. Junglers, for the most part, don't make for very effective roamers early on (Chen can when he gets two/three creeps but that takes level 5). Hmm actually I feel like I said nothing overall but I have a lot of thoughts swirling in my head. Need to get back to writing hero blogs instead. | ||
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Pimpmuckl
Germany528 Posts
I did that as a HoN Tutorial/YT Movie and it had great resonance! In case you don't have that much time, you could go ahead and talk about general warding placement, say: if you want to push t2 bottom tower => TELL YOUR TEAM to follow you and try to ward the pillar (In both cases there is an awesome pillar to place a great ward on [if it's the same as in HoN]) Or when to ward which lanes, say the lane where your carry farms and so on and so on, i guess you get my point! | ||
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Kokosaft
Germany172 Posts
I only played DotA for a year, but the importance of a support is really showing, if you play organized DotA. Playing a good as support is as difficult and important as playing a carry imo - in a different way. But it's as much fun to see your mates crush thanks to your support as crushing opponents yourself when having support. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
Firstly, the priority farming is a correct concept. However it is important to note that you should not be flexible, and always let the higher priority hero farm. For example, in any game with ES, the ES would barely have any farm early on. But come mid game, it is important to help/give ES the space to farm up his Blink Dagger, because it increases his capabilities by so much. As such, 2 or 3 should give up space for ES to farm. In this case, you can see that ES priority has somewhat increased at that stage. It is also important to understand that some support heroes are actually able to carry later on if required. Secondly, just as your hero might have low priority farming early on, but high priority farming later on, the opposite can happen. It really depends on your laning and drafting. For example, Lion can be played as a warder or pure support or roamer, but that is actually not his greatest role. Lion needs levels to be effective, which is why a support or trilane Lion is extremely rare and generally ineffective in DotA 1. Lion actually should be played as solo mid. As a solo mid, Lion is relatively higher levels than most heroes, with huge burst damage. This pretty much means a successful gank on any hero when at level 6. A solo mid Lion has very high priority farming, as he needs his dagger ASAP badly. HOWEVER, after he gets his dagger, his priority actually drops and he can become the main warder, gem or smoke buyer etc. This is as Dagger + basic items (Wand Boots TP maybe some HP items) are all Lion needs throughout the game. Dagger Lion is extremely scary ganker in early mid game, which is why the earlier you get the Dagger, the more effective you are (remember Lion has insane high burst damage. Impale + Finger + ally/allies = sure instant death). Thirdly, I would like to comment on how a team should look like with the priority theory. A standard game tend to consist of 3 main heroes, with 2 supports. The 3 main heroes are on their separate lane. You have the solo mid hero (2), your main carry (1), and your 3rd solo (3). Your 2 supports are usually hanging out in the jungle between 1 and 2, hence they are threatening these 2 lanes. Similarly, the enemy is threatening your 2 and 3. As you can see, 3 is alone and not protected by supports. Hence 3 usually consist of heroes that can escape well, and do decently with levels alone and minimal farm. The main goal of 3 is to leech as much exp as possible and sneak as much creep kills as possible WITHOUT dying. Heroes like PotM and Windrunner comes to mind. Due to their lack of farm early on, later on they have priority 3 farming to catch up. Remember that they can perform decently with just levels alone, hence priority 3 is the norm. 1 as you have mentioned, is the main carry and hence needs the most farm. 2 needs farm to help give the team momentum in the game. Which leaves us to the supports. There are 2 kind of supports: Junglers and non Junglers. Junglers are usually 4, because they have access to farming in jungle As such, they can get their items up easily. 4 are usually also support heroes that might have their priority increased, because they tend to be supports that will have a huge increase in effectiveness with a certain item farmed (Dagger). 5 more or less will always remain at 5. Their chief source of gold is from ganks. CM VS are the best examples of 5. I think you forgot to add Furion. He is anywhere from 2-4. If he is given a lane early on, he is usually played as 2 or 3. If he is supporting of jungling, he is 4. But he tends to be able to carry later on, and hence it is not uncommon for his priority to increase to 2-3. Also, I would like to dispute Dazzle. Support is not his main role. He is 2-4. Dazzle as a babysitter usually only works for a specially drafted game based around his heals. Dazzle is a very powerful solo and ganker later on. He actually hits very hard, and can be played as a semi carry. Support Dazzle tend to be the old outdated way of playing him. Yups. Sorry for the long post. Just wanna add my insights, because I think not many TL actually understands DotA 1, so it is from a player's perspective. P.S. Could use a DotA 2 Beta Key as well. Otherwise, cheers from Singapore! | ||
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NDPoNyBoY
United Kingdom1 Post
In pubs this hero can also be played as a very strong semi carry, as his base attack can become something that is very strong in combination with his passive poison. The best part about this hero though, is in dota1 he has the same model as everyones favourite hydralisk! Even the dota2 equivalent you can see the resemblance! | ||
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