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On October 30 2011 03:10 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:06 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 03:02 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 02:59 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 02:54 alexhard wrote:On October 30 2011 02:48 Dakota wrote:
I'm pretty sure everyone that is even somewhat-famous in the e-sports scene gets the same bad criticism from the same shitty people. I know its hard, but just try to ignore them, and know that the vast majority of people in the community respect and love what you do for SC2. The top reply on reddit is by djwheat. Is he one of the "the same shitty people" you're talking about? Because his criticism was right on the spot and, unlike the original troll post, well articulated and inoffensive. Are we talking about this post? I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? It's pretty much a direct attack, it has nothing to do with anything Milkis wrote in his post and Milkis' post didn't imply any of that at all. His post was straight up inflammatory and an invitation to the lynch mob to go to work. Yes, it was somewhat inflammatory, but what do you except when you make a such a controversial post at a place that doesnt share your opinion? As I said, it's like making a post on TL about how Starcraft is inferior to Counterstrike. It wasn't somewhat inflammatory, it was straight up inflammatory. The topic of the post just isn't a good enough excuse for personal attacks. You don't like it? Then write a civil and argumented response as to why you think what he said was wrong, in the same tone that the original post was written in. Not "BOOHOO YOU SAID FUCK YOU TO EVERYONE (...not -_-), YOU MUST BURN". If nothing else, responding like that only makes you look like you don't really have an argument to make in the first place. If I make a post in the BW forum about how SC2 is way better than BW, am I going to be attacked? Yes. Does my post justify the attacks? No. Should I have seen it coming and not made that post in a place where people have a complete opposite opinion? Yes.
But he never says that BW is better. What hes saying is that, for the most part, non-BW esports is still mostly for gamers by gamers whereas BW gets teams created and sponsored by SK telecom, KT and Samsung.
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On October 30 2011 03:13 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:08 Starcraftplaylist wrote:
I would guess it's a more popular opinion in the brood war forums.
Real world parallel: Don't say you are an undercover nigger at a KKK-meeting You do understand that exact analogy (which is very accurate) proves how shit of an argument that is? It actually justifies the ideology KKK promotes within their own circle. -_-
yep 
edit: not the main point though as someone explained.
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Milkis - You've got it made! The people you're translating for have nothing but respect and admiration for your talents and service to our community. The haters aren't the people you're translating for.
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On October 30 2011 03:14 Baptista wrote:
Are you pleased you little, internet fucks!? Look at what you have done to one of the most passionate people inside e-sports community! From a person I was inspired by, from a person who showed me what you can do for others, from THE ONE who brought MKP to MLG and made us all proud of what can be done, he became someone who under all this shit you have made lost his love. I don't want to live on this world anymore.
Milkis I wish there was better world in which you could be yourself. If it isn't Starcraft community for you, please do make a change. In this day I feel shame for our community.
Hope to hear from you again. Love you.
You've obviously never spoken to Milkis. He complained about almost everything he did. I don't think he's enjoyed being a part of this community for the last couple of months.
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The people who bash you are sheeping following a herd
They have no mind for themselves and just agree with what anyone who knows remotely more things than them.
But I hear you..
People are harsh and don't understand what they've got till it's gone.
Sorry it turned out this way.
Good luck to all your future endeavors, and I wish to see you somewhere in the eSports community whether it's on TL, or other forums =]
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Dude your the best Translator for the Koreans! Your the only one I really feel like understands the game and can put it in the right context!
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Not sure what triggered this but I support your decision.
More power to you imo.
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You are awesome for this community, milkis, but I have to agree with wheat on this one. You can't shit on every non-bw esport and expect to avoid responding to criticism.
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On October 30 2011 03:16 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:13 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 03:08 Starcraftplaylist wrote:
I would guess it's a more popular opinion in the brood war forums.
Real world parallel: Don't say you are an undercover nigger at a KKK-meeting You do understand that exact analogy (which is very accurate) proves how shit of an argument that is? It actually justifies the ideology KKK promotes within their own circle. -_- Well, the point isn't about how the hate is justified or not. The point is that IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN and you still carry on, you have to able to deal with the repercussions of your actions, whether the reception you get is justified or not.
Well, we aren't getting anywhere with this. You're saying that whether the hate is justified or not is not the point. I'm saying that's EXACTLY the point.
You should expect a website or community which takes itself seriously to be able to clean up its own shit and keep things civil. Instead you have some people contributing inflammatory content, and everyone else saying "sorry that's how internet works lol".
Yeah, that's a very beneficial attitude to have. -_-
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On October 30 2011 03:03 Louuster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 02:59 Ladnil wrote:
Milkis, you've got the Michael Scott problem. You care too much and you work too hard. After you've taken some time off I hope you cool down and return to the scene with a new determination not to kill yourself doing it.
And I'm sorry, but how were you not expecting trolls on the internet? If you suddenly refuse to have opinions or create content because some small percent of people are going to be dicks about it, you've lost far more respect from people like me than the trolls could ever have taken away from you. Even if you are going to step away from the public eye, the smart move would have been to just quietly stop, not to go out in flames of impotent internet rage. When the first upvoted response is from an djwheat it kinda makes you not feel so welcomed in the scene.
That's fair I guess. DJ Wheat and Slasher are pretty territorial about anybody even implying that Quake might not be the best eSport. They've got as much passion for that as Milkis has for Brood War, and it's just their general demeanor to be loud about it.
I hadn't actually read the Reddit drama thread, I just skimmed the OP and decided I didn't care enough about Milkis's opinion on eSports to read discussion about it or post my opinion of his opinion. Seeing the post now, Wheat was kinda harsh, and receiving that from an industry insider like him would be discouraging for anyone. Still, it's the internet, and even if Wheat was overly abrasive about it, he was not unfair in my opinion in his evaluation of what Milkis was saying about every other competitive scene. Milkis decided the world had to hear his opinion about why Starcraft is superior to all of the other games pretending to be eSports, and he should have expected people involved in other eSports would have a problem with that.
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On October 30 2011 03:15 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:10 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 03:06 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 03:02 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 02:59 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 02:54 alexhard wrote:On October 30 2011 02:48 Dakota wrote:
I'm pretty sure everyone that is even somewhat-famous in the e-sports scene gets the same bad criticism from the same shitty people. I know its hard, but just try to ignore them, and know that the vast majority of people in the community respect and love what you do for SC2. The top reply on reddit is by djwheat. Is he one of the "the same shitty people" you're talking about? Because his criticism was right on the spot and, unlike the original troll post, well articulated and inoffensive. Are we talking about this post? I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? It's pretty much a direct attack, it has nothing to do with anything Milkis wrote in his post and Milkis' post didn't imply any of that at all. His post was straight up inflammatory and an invitation to the lynch mob to go to work. Yes, it was somewhat inflammatory, but what do you except when you make a such a controversial post at a place that doesnt share your opinion? As I said, it's like making a post on TL about how Starcraft is inferior to Counterstrike. It wasn't somewhat inflammatory, it was straight up inflammatory. The topic of the post just isn't a good enough excuse for personal attacks. You don't like it? Then write a civil and argumented response as to why you think what he said was wrong, in the same tone that the original post was written in. Not "BOOHOO YOU SAID FUCK YOU TO EVERYONE (...not -_-), YOU MUST BURN". If nothing else, responding like that only makes you look like you don't really have an argument to make in the first place. If I make a post in the BW forum about how SC2 is way better than BW, am I going to be attacked? Yes. Does my post justify the attacks? No. Should I have seen it coming and not made that post in a place where people have a complete opposite opinion? Yes. Or, well you can make such a post but you have to be able to deal with the criticism/hate. The thing is - you don't have to deal with it or at least you shouldn't have to deal with it. You're only forced to deal with it because the moderation is not up to standards (or in reddit's case, non-existant).
That Wheat post was somewhat inflammatory. But wouldve it been deleted? No. (at most a warning for Wheat) Just remember the kind of shit people said to Kelly Milkies, for example.
And my argument all along was, whether he should or shouldn't have to deal with the repercussions it's still his fault for making that post. He knows how people are going to react to his post. Then he should be able to deal with the criticism.
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what happened? Milkis writes a non-factual article on reddit bashing every non-bw pro gamer and gets called out by djWheat. Now he does the coward thing of crying and running away. Nothing special, we don't need people this weak to begin with.
I always thought Milkis was weird when he started crying on a phone interview when EGAlex warned Milkis not to take the question he was going to ask personal.
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On October 30 2011 03:19 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:16 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 03:13 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 03:08 Starcraftplaylist wrote:
I would guess it's a more popular opinion in the brood war forums.
Real world parallel: Don't say you are an undercover nigger at a KKK-meeting You do understand that exact analogy (which is very accurate) proves how shit of an argument that is? It actually justifies the ideology KKK promotes within their own circle. -_- Well, the point isn't about how the hate is justified or not. The point is that IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN and you still carry on, you have to able to deal with the repercussions of your actions, whether the reception you get is justified or not. Well, we aren't getting anywhere with this. You're saying that whether the hate is justified or not is not the point. I'm saying that's EXACTLY the point. You should expect a website or community which takes itself seriously to be able to clean up its own shit and keep things civil. Instead you have some people contributing inflammatory content, and everyone else saying "sorry that's how internet works lol". Yeah, that's a very beneficial attitude to have. -_-
It may not be beneficial, but it is a realistic one. It is 100% impossible to completely moderate out negative opinions in an open community. The fact of the matter is some people get off on negativity, and any community that is open to all will have some aspect of that in it.
It may not be justified, and it may not be pleasant, but it is essentially how things work. Unless there are 100 mods and a closed community, it will exist. You must deal with it to survive in these communities.
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On October 30 2011 03:18 Gooshnads wrote:
The people who bash you are sheeping following a herd
They have no mind for themselves and just agree with what anyone who knows remotely more things than them.
That makes no sense whatsoever. So Milkis is allowed to have an opinion because he provided some shitty translations others could have done better for the same cost? He's a for-hire translator who was in the spotlight of the community. He's subject to criticism.
I don't like how everyone is just swooning at this guy and biting at his compliment lure.
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QQ More. GTFO. Someone give him a diaper on the way out.
User was temp banned for this post.
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United States1719 Posts
On October 30 2011 03:18 jenzebubble wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:14 Baptista wrote:
Are you pleased you little, internet fucks!? Look at what you have done to one of the most passionate people inside e-sports community! From a person I was inspired by, from a person who showed me what you can do for others, from THE ONE who brought MKP to MLG and made us all proud of what can be done, he became someone who under all this shit you have made lost his love. I don't want to live on this world anymore.
Milkis I wish there was better world in which you could be yourself. If it isn't Starcraft community for you, please do make a change. In this day I feel shame for our community.
Hope to hear from you again. Love you. You've obviously never spoken to Milkis. He complained about almost everything he did. I don't think he's enjoyed being a part of this community for the last couple of months.
who would when our favorite game is fading away, and the TL community is being (has already been) replaced by a bunch of immature SC2 blockheads who have no regard for the history of its predecessor
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On October 30 2011 01:07 Chill wrote:
my only thought reading this was "lol"
dont worry milkis, your daddy loves you. see you tomorrow.
chill, why are you so awesome
<3
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On October 30 2011 03:20 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:15 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 03:10 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 03:06 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 03:02 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 02:59 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 02:54 alexhard wrote:On October 30 2011 02:48 Dakota wrote:
I'm pretty sure everyone that is even somewhat-famous in the e-sports scene gets the same bad criticism from the same shitty people. I know its hard, but just try to ignore them, and know that the vast majority of people in the community respect and love what you do for SC2. The top reply on reddit is by djwheat. Is he one of the "the same shitty people" you're talking about? Because his criticism was right on the spot and, unlike the original troll post, well articulated and inoffensive. Are we talking about this post? I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? It's pretty much a direct attack, it has nothing to do with anything Milkis wrote in his post and Milkis' post didn't imply any of that at all. His post was straight up inflammatory and an invitation to the lynch mob to go to work. Yes, it was somewhat inflammatory, but what do you except when you make a such a controversial post at a place that doesnt share your opinion? As I said, it's like making a post on TL about how Starcraft is inferior to Counterstrike. It wasn't somewhat inflammatory, it was straight up inflammatory. The topic of the post just isn't a good enough excuse for personal attacks. You don't like it? Then write a civil and argumented response as to why you think what he said was wrong, in the same tone that the original post was written in. Not "BOOHOO YOU SAID FUCK YOU TO EVERYONE (...not -_-), YOU MUST BURN". If nothing else, responding like that only makes you look like you don't really have an argument to make in the first place. If I make a post in the BW forum about how SC2 is way better than BW, am I going to be attacked? Yes. Does my post justify the attacks? No. Should I have seen it coming and not made that post in a place where people have a complete opposite opinion? Yes. Or, well you can make such a post but you have to be able to deal with the criticism/hate. The thing is - you don't have to deal with it or at least you shouldn't have to deal with it. You're only forced to deal with it because the moderation is not up to standards (or in reddit's case, non-existant). That Wheat post was somewhat inflammatory. But wouldve it been deleted? No. (at most a warning for Wheat) Just remember the kind of shit people said to Kelly Milkies, for example. And my argument all along was, whether he should or shouldn't have to deal with the repercussions it's still his fault for making that post. He knows how people are going to react to his post. Then he should be able to deal with the criticism.
But why would he have to deal with it in the first place?
If his presence in the community and work has become something he no longer enjoys for whatever reason, why would HE have to be the one to change HIS standards, when it's the community standards which are questionable here?
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On October 30 2011 03:23 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:18 jenzebubble wrote:On October 30 2011 03:14 Baptista wrote:
Are you pleased you little, internet fucks!? Look at what you have done to one of the most passionate people inside e-sports community! From a person I was inspired by, from a person who showed me what you can do for others, from THE ONE who brought MKP to MLG and made us all proud of what can be done, he became someone who under all this shit you have made lost his love. I don't want to live on this world anymore.
Milkis I wish there was better world in which you could be yourself. If it isn't Starcraft community for you, please do make a change. In this day I feel shame for our community.
Hope to hear from you again. Love you. You've obviously never spoken to Milkis. He complained about almost everything he did. I don't think he's enjoyed being a part of this community for the last couple of months. who would when our favorite game is fading away, and the TL community is being (has already been) replaced by a bunch of immature SC2 blockheads who have no regard for the history of its predecessor
Sounds to me like you have a different idea of what you want the TL community to be than what it is. It's best if you bring this up with TL staff and not the public.
If the TL community is separating away from what you want it to be, then maybe it's best if you follow Milkis lead.
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EPT
