|
On October 30 2011 03:28 Darclite wrote:
I remember watching some small tourney with a female caster (she was a decent caster), and here's what people said about her:
"Dumb bitches should stay out of this game"
"Get back in the kitchen"
"Get a real caster so you can make him a sandwich"
"Fucking dumb bitch but I'd fuck her"
"I hope she dies"
I said "I don't think she's that bad honestly"
Here's what people said about me:
"lol fag"
"Stop white knighting bitch"
"lol stupid virgin"
"No place in the world for bitches like you two"
"I hope you die"
"I hope your mother gets cancer you stupid virgin white knight loser"
Here's the point: a lot of people fucking suck. But they are simply idiots at their computer with nothing better to do. Everyone who does anything ever, particularly in front of large groups including the internet, deals with them. That sums up all of the excessively harsh posts. Not really a big deal.
For those who disagreed on your reddit post without being harsh (such as DjWheat), you took a pretty polarizing position on the issue of BW vs. all other games, and people inevitably disagreed with you. Hell, I think BW is the best game ever and I thought your point was a bit unfair.
But honestly, you are a respected figure who is recognized for doing something in the sc2 community, which is something I'd love to be in a few years (as well as many other people on here I'm sure), you really shouldn't be quitting over anything like this.
That would probably be Kelly, if I had to guess.
|
On October 30 2011 03:27 alexhard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:11 Ikonn wrote:On October 30 2011 03:09 alexhard wrote:On October 30 2011 03:02 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 02:59 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 02:54 alexhard wrote:On October 30 2011 02:48 Dakota wrote:
I'm pretty sure everyone that is even somewhat-famous in the e-sports scene gets the same bad criticism from the same shitty people. I know its hard, but just try to ignore them, and know that the vast majority of people in the community respect and love what you do for SC2. The top reply on reddit is by djwheat. Is he one of the "the same shitty people" you're talking about? Because his criticism was right on the spot and, unlike the original troll post, well articulated and inoffensive. Are we talking about this post? I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? It's pretty much a direct attack, it has nothing to do with anything Milkis wrote in his post and Milkis' post didn't imply any of that at all. His post was straight up inflammatory and an invitation to the lynch mob to go to work. Yes, it was somewhat inflammatory, but what do you except when you make a such a controversial post at a place that doesnt share your opinion? As I said, it's like making a post on TL about how Starcraft is inferior to Counterstrike. But Milkis' post didn't simply say that all other games are inferior to BW (such an opinion I could actually understand). What he said was that the professionals who play any game other than BW are not actually sportsmen/women, and that those activities are not esports. Because the composition of the audience is different. That's not actually what he said but the audience part is still a fair point "many of these games such as Counter Strike or Quake do have a large competitive scene, to call it a "sport", that is, to give those games all the implications behind such a word is a bit too far fetched." "Brood War is the only true eSports." That is exactly what he said.
Sure but he never said they weren't sportsmen because of the audience, which is what you implied
|
I would like to think that the people who wrote the bad comments didn't actually mean them as they say.
I call people who do bad in a game retarded, i call people who write stupid posts retarded, but that does not mean i actually think they are mentally handicapped.
You could go to the whole discussion on whether the word Rape is acceptable, all the arguments i heard are what Females would think about it, when, in reality it is two guys talking about butt sex and nothing to do with what "normal" people term as rape.
If you would quit the eSports "scene" over some CS/Quake players deeming your post as stupid then you need thicker skin, look at the Chill episode, he ignored it and got on with his thing, 2 weeks later no one gives a damn.
You had an opinion, a lot of people disagreed with it, you basically ignored all of Quake/WC3/CS efforts in eSports, not to mention the fighting scene (which sometimes has more viewers than SC)
Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean its correct.
"many of these games such as Counter Strike or Quake do have a large competitive scene, to call it a "sport", that is, to give those games all the implications behind such a word is a bit too far fetched."
"Brood War is the only true eSports."
The definition of Sport from the dictionary:
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
Every single game that is played competitively and Viewed is an eSport
|
Hey man, there are a lot of mannered lurkers out there who appreciate your work even if it's not up to the standard of the hyper-critical. xx
|
Milkis, thanks for translating. I really appreciated it.
|
If all it takes is one instance of you posting something the community disagrees with to take you completely out of eports I would have been out dozens of times. Take your emotion at the time out of it and just realize how hive-mind works on tl and reddit and got over and through it...
|
That was unexpected, and frankly quite silly. Although I don't think this is goodbye forever.
|
On October 30 2011 02:57 Nyctophobia wrote:
From what I gather, this is how it all went down: Milkis had an opinion, some people disagreed with him, were impolite in conveying this to him, and he's decided he's done StarCraft and eSports as a whole, based on the small, small, fraction of the community that doesn't appreciate what he does. I absolutely hate to see him leave, especially over something like this.
Tyler's first post in the thread is probably the most insightful thing you'll get out of this, I hope that it changes his perspective a bit if he doesn't do it on his own by just sitting down and thinking. Sincerely sorry to see Milkis leaving after all he's done for the community. And if that's the case, and he isn't back in like a week or something, and you're really gone for good, bye, Milkis, it was nice having you.
best post so far
|
Flame me if you want, ban me if you want, this is my opinion.
People are going to hate you. This is life. This what it is. It doesn't matter if you walk onto the MLG stage nervious, or walking down your university hallway confident. People shit talk. Thats the way life is.
I deal with people like this all the time. If you have a fun job, if you LOVE doing what you're doing - And the MAJORITY LOVES YOU ( And I KNOW that it is the majority, because I see MILKIS on REDDIT EVERY-FUCK-DAY) Then fuck doing what everyone else wants, and do what you want. Did you love it? Good. Was it exausting, good. Guess what? Everything in this life isn't easy. So yeah. You're exausted? But what do you have to show for it? Hundreds of Fans and being a part in one of the most largest growing industries to date.
Sorry to see you go, but in my heart of hearts, I hope you man the fuck up and turn this whole thing around.
/Wave
User was temp banned for this post.
|
Thanks for all your hard work you've done involving with the scene, MLGs and translations, really appreciate them. Take care of yourself and I hope you have a blast doing whatever it is you decide. Thanks again.
|
On October 30 2011 03:25 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:23 rotinegg wrote:On October 30 2011 03:18 jenzebubble wrote:On October 30 2011 03:14 Baptista wrote:
Are you pleased you little, internet fucks!? Look at what you have done to one of the most passionate people inside e-sports community! From a person I was inspired by, from a person who showed me what you can do for others, from THE ONE who brought MKP to MLG and made us all proud of what can be done, he became someone who under all this shit you have made lost his love. I don't want to live on this world anymore.
Milkis I wish there was better world in which you could be yourself. If it isn't Starcraft community for you, please do make a change. In this day I feel shame for our community.
Hope to hear from you again. Love you. You've obviously never spoken to Milkis. He complained about almost everything he did. I don't think he's enjoyed being a part of this community for the last couple of months. who would when our favorite game is fading away, and the TL community is being (has already been) replaced by a bunch of immature SC2 blockheads who have no regard for the history of its predecessor Then why did he decide to get into the spotlight of the SC2 scene? He didn't have to, no one forced him. If you don't like it - that's fine. But dont do it (when you dont have to) and then later complain about how much it sucks.
milkis is a fine translator who translated out of the love of the game, and of the community. he translated lengthy articles that nobody else wanted to (translating takes a shitload of time) and wanted nothing back in return. it's true that nobody forced him into the spotlight, but at the same time he was, because there is still not a single translator in the sc community even comes close to the linguistic fluency and dedication that he has, and the quality of translations would have been drastically reduced if he had not served his role. best of luck to you milkis.
|
Reddit is an ulcer and should be mostly ignored. For all the good people on there (like those that donated to bring MKP to Orlando) there are 100 more trolls that slurp up the spit of Combat-ex and take a shit on anyone who actually does anything for the community. TB and Incontrol have learned to mostly ignore those people like everyone else should be doing, but this is a process everyone who becomes "e-famous" eventually has to go through.
The SC2 community by-and-large doesn't really understand the difference between e-sports in Korea and China and e-sports in the rest of the world, as they are very different. The cultural acceptance of playing a game for a living is just so much higher there and saying another "e-sport" is comparable is just flat wrong.
I hope you remember that at least here on TL you will always be welcome and we are grateful for all the translating and community work you have provided.
|
Err I don't get it.
You write extreme comments that are bound to get an extreme response, example, your latest "BW IS THE ONLY ESPORT" post.
You get your extreme response.
Then you whine and moan about how unfair it is and make this huge drama about yourself quitting.
The only word that comes to mind is the more derogatory version of "dramaqueen".
|
On October 30 2011 03:22 ski107 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:19 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 03:16 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 03:13 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 03:08 Starcraftplaylist wrote:
I would guess it's a more popular opinion in the brood war forums.
Real world parallel: Don't say you are an undercover nigger at a KKK-meeting You do understand that exact analogy (which is very accurate) proves how shit of an argument that is? It actually justifies the ideology KKK promotes within their own circle. -_- Well, the point isn't about how the hate is justified or not. The point is that IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN and you still carry on, you have to able to deal with the repercussions of your actions, whether the reception you get is justified or not. Well, we aren't getting anywhere with this. You're saying that whether the hate is justified or not is not the point. I'm saying that's EXACTLY the point. You should expect a website or community which takes itself seriously to be able to clean up its own shit and keep things civil. Instead you have some people contributing inflammatory content, and everyone else saying "sorry that's how internet works lol". Yeah, that's a very beneficial attitude to have. -_- It may not be beneficial, but it is a realistic one. It is 100% impossible to completely moderate out negative opinions in an open community. The fact of the matter is some people get off on negativity, and any community that is open to all will have some aspect of that in it. It may not be justified, and it may not be pleasant, but it is essentially how things work. Unless there are 100 mods and a closed community, it will exist. You must deal with it to survive in these communities.
But it isn't how things work. Gosh. It's how people MAKE IT work. -_-
It's absolutely possible to remove shit posts and shit posters. This isn't about having negative opinions or any other kind of opinions. This is about coming into this thread and literally calling Milkis a "crybaby", "drama queen" or an equivalent, which is a post Milkis should NEVER EVER have to read on TL of all places.
This is criticizing his translating and the work he's done by people who neither speak Korean nor have any experience with translating themselves and what that job entails - in a thread which isn't about his translating skills at all, making it completely off-topic in the first place.
If you're telling me it's impossible to make these posts disappear, then I'm saying you're wrong. You have access -> you click the right buttons -> Poof! They're gone.
|
On October 30 2011 03:30 Ikonn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:27 alexhard wrote:On October 30 2011 03:11 Ikonn wrote:On October 30 2011 03:09 alexhard wrote:On October 30 2011 03:02 Woony wrote:On October 30 2011 02:59 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 02:54 alexhard wrote:On October 30 2011 02:48 Dakota wrote:
I'm pretty sure everyone that is even somewhat-famous in the e-sports scene gets the same bad criticism from the same shitty people. I know its hard, but just try to ignore them, and know that the vast majority of people in the community respect and love what you do for SC2. The top reply on reddit is by djwheat. Is he one of the "the same shitty people" you're talking about? Because his criticism was right on the spot and, unlike the original troll post, well articulated and inoffensive. Are we talking about this post? I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? It's pretty much a direct attack, it has nothing to do with anything Milkis wrote in his post and Milkis' post didn't imply any of that at all. His post was straight up inflammatory and an invitation to the lynch mob to go to work. Yes, it was somewhat inflammatory, but what do you except when you make a such a controversial post at a place that doesnt share your opinion? As I said, it's like making a post on TL about how Starcraft is inferior to Counterstrike. But Milkis' post didn't simply say that all other games are inferior to BW (such an opinion I could actually understand). What he said was that the professionals who play any game other than BW are not actually sportsmen/women, and that those activities are not esports. Because the composition of the audience is different. That's not actually what he said but the audience part is still a fair point "many of these games such as Counter Strike or Quake do have a large competitive scene, to call it a "sport", that is, to give those games all the implications behind such a word is a bit too far fetched." "Brood War is the only true eSports." That is exactly what he said. Sure but he never said they weren't sportsmen because of the audience, which is what you implied
"One of the first reasons I say that is this. [talks about how the composition of the audience is different]".
I can keep going, you obviously haven't bothered actually reading the thing. Other esports have been televised, have had salaries comparable to bw, etc. The only thing that actually sets them apart is the composition of the audience, and that is what Milkis highlights in his post.
|
Hmm, my exact thought was the same as Chill's.
You've done awesome things for us all as a community which has helped tremendously, but your ignorant elitism blinds you so much. It's quite saddening tbh reading what you put and how blatantly wrong some of the stuff you were saying was.
You can't expect to not be called out about it. It doesn't matter who you are and what you've done. If you state something that is fundamentally wrong, you deserve to be called out for it.
As for the trolls, well... That's the internet. They will always be there and you need to work on your self-esteem if they are really grinding you down so much.
You need to stop being so negative about everything. This isn't just a point from what's gone on recently, i mean this in general. You always seem so negative and downbeat about things. Go out and enjoy yourself man, enjoy life. If that's out of starcraft or in it. That's completely up to you. But seriously consider your approach to things because i think you'd be a much better person if you weren't so dramatic and negative all the time. Be happy.
You mean well, but you're going the wrong way about it.
|
On October 30 2011 03:27 PhoenixDark wrote:
Why are people still begging him to stay? It's clear he's not coming back, and he's unwilling to defend his argument, which is built on a series of bad points. Maybe he'll join the BW scene in some capacity, since it's the only esport apparently.
He obviously loved the work he did in translation and at MLG or he would not have done it. If he now goes and does an unrelated, normal job he will not be satisfied. We will see his name again somewhere even if he doesn't return to being an active TL/Reddit member.
That post is still angry and emotional. If that continues to be his opinion in a week I'd believe him but his decision to quit so fast is not a rational one yet. It's not like he's been hating the work for months and this is the last thing; this is pretty much the only negative thing to have happened. The burnout he describes at MLG was self-inflicted due to how much he loved doing it, and he doesn't have to do that to contribute.
tl;dr I expand on Chill's one line.
|
Ah, the fun of being a public figure! I feel your pain, Milkis. I think "haters gonna hate" is actually too innocuous of a phrase for how prominent internet figures are treated. When people want to be hurtful, they will sit there, and think, and use the internet to maximize their insults. Oftentimes, the "hater" won't even be that bad of a person. It's just how things operate here - all or nothing! Like or dislike!
It's exhausting sometimes (believe me, I deal with it on a near daily basis, too!) but you can't forget the people who actually enjoy your stuff. There are a lot of them, and they're usually much less vocal!
|
so what was milkis trying to do when he posted that article? what did he expect to happen? was he prepared to defend it?
|
Do people who mainly like SC2 have to do anything special to show respect fro BW?
Or can we just keep playing, not being to douches to BW enthusiasts?
I can totally see wanting respect, but if it's not enough to not badmouth you then what do you want?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
