TvT is draining my soul, killing me.....

Bleak

Turkey3059 Posts

September 06 2011 10:34 GMT

I fucking don't understand this matchup. 50 min TvT on Searing Crater, I outexpand him, kill his expansions, yet he manages to take the gold and I can't kill him for it, and I'm dead. Next, 10 hellions happily march across the map and fuck up my 50 scvs, and I don't have income. I just don't understand, you can't fucking walk into tank lines but how do you kill the motherfucker who set up tank lines? This is so much fucking bullshit, I'll switch to Toss at least their mirror ends in 10-15min at most and it doesn't fucking drain your soul with bullshit positioning and such...

I need something to break.......

iTzSnypah

United States1738 Posts

September 06 2011 10:45 GMT

I feel your pain, i usually just marine scv all in TvT because i can't stand tank vs tank...

arb

Noobville17921 Posts

September 06 2011 10:49 GMT

Fight for positioning pull scvs to take tank hits, drop everywhere, or force him to attack you, switch to bc's.

theres all kinds of shit you can do in TvT

Necosarius

Sweden4042 Posts

September 06 2011 10:52 GMT

Isn't TvT the most versatile MU? Just do different shit! Sky terran yo!

Finland151 Posts

September 06 2011 10:52 GMT

copy nada

Sotamursu

Finland612 Posts

September 06 2011 10:53 GMT

You kill tank lines with air control and better positioning. Or you can try bio on very big maps and try multi-pronged attacks, but that's really hard to pull off. I played an hour long tvt on shakuras yesterday. I lost air control, so I took the Xel'naga towers. Those stop your opponent from abusing his vikings.

After you gain air control, you just leapfrog your tanks slowly and destroy theirs with your longer range. And/or get banshees/bc's and destroy their tanks.

SecondChance

Australia603 Posts

September 06 2011 11:01 GMT

Yea, it's kinda horrible. I never play tank viking or mech and pray that we spwn at cross positions with a watch tower inbetween us; haha.

Bio tank ftw.

Osmoses

Sweden5302 Posts

September 06 2011 11:05 GMT

I used to hate it, but then I saw Jinro playing a TvT and I dun went and changed my opinion, that was awesome. It's definitely more strategic than any other matchup, with tons of little tricks you can do to get an edge. Like landing a mule in his tankline to make him shoot himself or landing your scouting rax to take the first volley as you attack.

phoenixfeather95

665 Posts

September 06 2011 11:25 GMT

Play like TLO :D

CooDu

Australia899 Posts

September 06 2011 11:33 GMT

#10

Probably my favourite matchup, usually going for good old Tank/Viking, makes for some awesome games.

babylon

8765 Posts

September 06 2011 11:51 GMT

#11

Bio timing attacks. Go Polt-style. Ends things quickly (for either you or your opponent). :D

i_imperator

Ireland94 Posts

September 06 2011 11:53 GMT

#12

I've heard that zvz is way worse than tvt. Just go for mass air, tanks cant shoot up, and make sur you have vikings to defend. If you dont wanna do that then just nuke him. That should get him to move those tanks!

heha

Australia425 Posts

September 06 2011 12:05 GMT

#13

Been trying 1 rax FE into pure Bio TvP style in TvT recently, works soooo deliciously. The mech/tank players these days just are too scared to unsiege, lest they get mauled by marauders... *drool* works high masters NA/SEA, so I've gotta be doing something right

CooDu

Australia899 Posts

September 06 2011 12:06 GMT

#14

Not a bad idea heha, going to try this out !!

Deadlyfish

Denmark1980 Posts

September 06 2011 12:14 GMT

#15

Yea i feel the same. When my opponent has a tank line, turrets around his base etc, what the fuck can i do. I cant attack at all, so i'm forced to just wait. Usually i'll try and attack or drop but it always ends up biting me in the ass.

So you end up trying to switch into BC's and then someone randomly wins after 40mins of pure shit, i hate it.

Zombie_Velociraptor

274 Posts

September 06 2011 12:15 GMT

#16

A single Banshee in tank line stand offs makes massive difference; and if he invests so much in air that you can't make enough vikings to keep it alive, suicide EVERY viking you have (use them to harass mineral lines or whatever), make some thors, and smash. Siege tanks with a few thors in front break siege lines very well.

impression

413 Posts

September 06 2011 12:23 GMT

#17

I hated TvT so much i switched races. That, and I wanted to play zerg anyway. And now ZvZ is my worst MU although lately I have been doing better.

jimbob615

Uruguay455 Posts

September 06 2011 12:24 GMT

#18

there's so many different options available for you to try!

lately i'm doing the reaper marauder ghost rush... works good so far :D

and then there's the thor rush... always very very strong against marine tank, banshee or blue flame drops. only weak vs mass racks MM with stim which is fairly rare.

redoxx

United States333 Posts

September 06 2011 12:57 GMT

#19

TvT is really hard, but it's also the mirror matchup that requires the most skill. It reminds me of chess with all the emphasis placed on positioning and control of important areas. Also, counterattacking using drops or hellions is so important not to kill the opponent, but to win positioning and gain aggressive momentum. I wouldn't say I'm any good at the matchup, but it's the one I see the post possibilities in.

Djagulingu

Germany3605 Posts

September 06 2011 13:36 GMT

#20

You can always siege up and cross your fingers so that opponent unsieges first. You can always order a kebap or two in the process, light a cigarette, do usual msn-facebook thing, watch streams too.

When I offrace as T, I never trust my CPU and usually do a Polt style big 2 base marauder-tank timing with some little help from starport units (see: GSL Super Tournament finals) or marine-tank orientated play which is very micro intensive with some help from marauders and starport units, mostly raven and viking and I also have seen mobility orientated terran strategies work at highest levels (see: Nada vs Keen, Nada did it to win against Keen and Keen did it back to Nada and he almost won), getting mass bio, mainly marauders and some marines, and hellions and dropping everywhere might work well against tank heavy players (see: MMA vs sC from last GSTL, SlayerS vs fOu, the last game). If you split your bio well, you can always take down tank heavy play. That's what Polt means to me.

gillon

Sweden1578 Posts

September 06 2011 13:42 GMT

#21

Ravens, vikings, banshees, eventually BCs.

Entropic

Canada2837 Posts

September 06 2011 14:24 GMT

#22

I think TvT is awesome. I don't think it drags out that much unless its a map that lets you split the map too easy like Shakuras. Otherwise, you can always find ways to outmaneuver your opponent. There's 2 main tactics to breaking siege tank lines imo:

1) gaining air superiority and then landing the vikings on top of the tanks then follow up with your own tanks
2) Thor busts where 1 or more thors lead.
3) the best one: outflank your opponent and force them to reposition his forces then attack his weakest spots.

In all cases try to always attack from the flank.

Deleted User 101379

4849 Posts

September 06 2011 14:26 GMT

#23

TvT is a lot better than ZvZ.
You have so many options you can (relatively) safely go to, like iEchoic banshee/viking/BC air play, hellion/tank, marine/tank, bio, skyterran raven/banshee/viking, heavy drop play,...

Hell, when i'm too stressed by my (only diamond level) Zerg games, i switch to my high-plat terran account and win TvTs by just building lots of marines (and a few medivacs for drops)...

You have so many options, try them... or play a ton of ZvZs and learn to appreciate TvT.

Raigeki

Hong Kong207 Posts

September 06 2011 14:32 GMT

#24

TvT is the most dynamic mu imo, i played 2000 games in season1 as random and decided to pick T cause ZvZ and PvP digusts me, + im bad at it of course lol

Djagulingu

Germany3605 Posts

September 06 2011 15:03 GMT

#25

On September 06 2011 23:32 Raigeki wrote:
TvT is the most dynamic mu imo, i played 2000 games in season1 as random and decided to pick T cause ZvZ and PvP digusts me, + im bad at it of course lol

Really? TvT is dynamic? The reason why you're bad at ZvZ or PvP is probably the lack of dynamism in those matchups (/sarcasm).

I agree with the diversity and strategy-skill requirements of TvT but dynamic is the worst adjective to define the matchup.

Deleted User 101379

4849 Posts

September 06 2011 15:40 GMT

#26

On September 07 2011 00:03 Djagulingu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well, in TvT you have to constantly adapt to the opponent due to the number of different options each Terran has. Sky terran vs Hellion/Tank, Bio vs marine/tank, Banshees, etc. where transitions from one style to another are possible (Hellion/Tank into Hellion/Air, Marine/Tank into Hellion/Tank, etc.)

In PvP you have to prepare for a 4gate and then it's "build colossi until one of you wins".
In ZvZ you get ling/bling wars into roaches into either mutalisks or infestors.

Yes, it's simplified but still, there are a lot more transitions in TvT which make it a seemingly static matchup but it's actually very dynamic.

Djagulingu

Germany3605 Posts

September 06 2011 16:34 GMT

#27

On September 07 2011 00:40 Morfildur wrote:

Show nested quote +

By dynamic, what I actually meant was the opposite of stale, which is not true for TvT. But yes, constant transitioning from some shit to another shit is required in TvT as you can't stay on a single tech for too long unless you're doing polt vs mma style early-midgame 2 base timings.

Raigeki

Hong Kong207 Posts

September 07 2011 00:53 GMT

#28

many possibilities are open when u can constant swap around rax/factory/starport with reactor/tech lab

eourcs

United States459 Posts

September 07 2011 01:02 GMT

#29

TvT is fine, the only problem with it is the early game with the stupid luck based "oh look, i can drop/run 3 hellions and kill 30 scvs" and the weird dynamic where you can't go tanks too early or you die to hellions, but you can't go tanks too late or you die to tank pushes -.-. And 1base tank allins. Fuck them.

Once you reach mid-late game, TvT becomes pretty damn fun (this is assuming mech vs mech because mech vs bio or bio tank is stupid- turtle to 3 bases, get invincible army, push, win). There are just so many more options once you are turreted up and you have 3-4 solid bases. I guess it can be seen as boring to some, but I like the really careful positioning and micro game. Though to be honest, I might only like it because I never lose lategame TvT

TheYukoner

Canada80 Posts

September 07 2011 01:17 GMT

#30

I used to HATE TvT till I tried korean style tank marine. No vikings, no medivacs (only for dropping.
Ever since then I've fallen in love with the MU. I also agree with a lot of the above posters, there are SO many possibilities in TvT, find one that works for you.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

September 07 2011 03:14 GMT

#31

Late game get nukes or bcs or lots of ravens to break tank lines, or look to come at the tank line perpendicularly aka spread out everything and attack one end of their tank line because you'll have the most units firing while if they do not re-position you can just kill everything.

Pieismyign

United States176 Posts

September 07 2011 04:07 GMT

#32

its ok, i hate TvT too. Sometimes i miss hellions runby and find a dead base with no scvs and cry.....

Bleak

Turkey3059 Posts

September 07 2011 22:38 GMT

#33

I keep losing and losing and losing....this is downright stupid, I'm 4 base versus 2 base, but somehow he pulls 3 battlecruisers out of his ass and overpowers me...next game, I lose due to my army out of positioned....I need an all-in build any suggestions?

gurrpp

United States437 Posts

September 07 2011 22:51 GMT

#34

Gain air superiority, tank push, win. You just have to make sure he doesn't get some big drops off and you can push him back safely. If you don't have air superiority you either need a ton of orbitals(not viable unless you both end up turtling for a really long time) or you need to do something to break his tank line or drop in his base.

Bleak

Turkey3059 Posts

September 09 2011 07:11 GMT

#35

I started going MMM with drops, harrassment, double prong attacks to snipe expansions, and expanding myself everywhere. I use up the lost MM supply for a Battlecruiser+Viking switch if it gets to lategame. It seems to be working out for now.

ticktack

United Arab Emirates874 Posts

September 09 2011 08:06 GMT

#36

if 50 minute games aren't your thing, then try some bio all ins! In my opinion those are the most effective all in. I used to love TvT marine tank but ever since people made too much blue flame hellions, I just started to cheese/ all in every game haha

Goodluck!!

rauk

United States2228 Posts

September 09 2011 08:09 GMT

#37

TvT is all about surviving early game gayness. if you can block most rushes and contains then TvT starts to become really fun, because it's possible to win by mechanically overwhelming them as well as outpositioning and outmaneuvering them. however, i'll admit how fun TvT is is extremely map dependent. with short rush distances and few attack paths or watchtowers it can be really frustrating and unfun (metalopolis, shattered, xnc, shak). but on big maps with open centers and a lot space (taldarim, nerazim, belshir, crevasse) it's super fun because the big maps also make bio and mech equally viable, and force you to constantly micro your army for position, but also allows you to slip right by their tank line into their main if they stop paying attention.

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

September 09 2011 09:30 GMT

#38

seriously if it wasn't for tvt I might play terran because the race in general seems fun but god I could never stand tvt lol and that is why I well never switch races :p

Bleak

Turkey3059 Posts

September 10 2011 10:07 GMT

#39

I fucking hate this matchup every day more...I got accustomed to bio style but now people blue flame hellion drop me to death. Such a retarded designed unit, I can't believe it.

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