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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
What makes the best Sc2 players the best?
You don't have to be a  genius to play Sc2 well, but it helps. I've always been interested by the idea of the e-sportsman as the innovator, who presses at the boundaries of human capability with preternaturally logical intelligence and brilliant strategic thinking-- because I don't think it's true. Intelligence is not what sets apart the amazing Starcraft 2 players from the merely excellent ones, or the NesTeas of the world from the, let's say, the TheWinds-- something else is at play.
It would be difficult to be strong at Sc2 if you were unusually stupid, but you certainly don't need to have above-average intelligence. Even all the way up to the GM League, I'm sure you could find players who lean on mechanics and pre-determined build orders to win rather than any Grand Strategy.
The common thread of between strong players, though, is a mental trait besides intelligence: focus. To win a game of sc2, whether it's a micro-intensive PvP with stalkers kiting and poking like there's no tomorrow, or an hour-long TvT that becomes viking-BC-Raven vs viking-BC-Raven with the entire map mined out, you need constant focus to be successful for the whole game. Should your concentration falter, you will start to mis-micro your drops, lose the siege tank micro battle, get supply blocked, and so on.
"Maintaining concentration for 30 minutes to play a long TvT isn't that hard," you say, "I do it all the time when I ladder."
And maybe you're right; but can you do it for 10 hours while you work all the kinks out of your new build order on every map, then help your teammate work all the kinks out of his build order, then practice the same matchup over and over again, refining your micro and game sense just a little at a time? Can you sit down at your computer, start laddering, and take only short breaks for the next 4 hours as you duke it out with GM-level players?
This is what separates players like HuK and IdrA from the rest of us, what separates the pros from the amateurs.
Amateur is a misnomer, anyways-- coming from the root of "ama-", to love-- someone who plays for the love of the game rather than for money. But pros don't play for money (I mean, they do, but that's not why they really play) or for contracts. Someone with that level of concentration and willpower could make mad bank doing something else. Pros are pros because they love the game. They hate losing, and they are competitors.
Amateurs love the game and play it for fun and not for money, but the true lovers are the Professionals: You don't play Sc2 for 10+ hours a day in a cramped house with your teammates during the best years of your life because you WANT to make only $500 a month; you do it because you love the game.
Edit:
Things this discussion is not about: BW vs Sc2 and the associated fanboyism. Do I really need to specify this, you guys?
 
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http://boxerbiography.blogspot.com/
I think the Emperor himself agrees with you - he loved the SHIT out of this game. He did it because it made him happy, and because he had the drive to be the best.
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What makes the best SC2 players?
Brood War.
EDIT: Blog-banned for honesty; the iron curtain that SC2 fans surround themselves grows thicker.
User was banned for this post.
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Talents + hard work man, A lot of people doesn't know what talents are in sc2, I define it as the ability to always make the best decision given limited information at any situation. Nony was by far had the most talent in the end of the foreigner BW scene, but he only shines when he plays with absolute confident, and don't doubt his own decisions. He show off his talents during the team liquid starleague 2 back in the BW days.
And talents can only carry so far, in the end of the day hard work will out shine the talented ones who lacks effort. But when you have both talents and dedication, and the spark of genius, you will get the likes of Jeadong, Bisu, and flash. You will become SC2 legends.
The current top Koreans in sc2 are all hard workers with talents, but why couldn't they achieve the same in BW scene? that's because there are many others who has more talents and works even harder, quite simple, there is always someone better, sc2 is a humbling experience.
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On August 05 2011 03:26 Blunt wrote:
What makes the best SC players?
Brood War.
How blunt ㅋ
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On August 05 2011 03:26 Blunt wrote:
What makes the best SC players?
Brood War.
Couldn't be more blunt. But so true.
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Speaking of blunt... kinda want one right now
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On August 05 2011 03:26 Blunt wrote:
What makes the best SC2 players?
Brood War.
That's like asking:
"What makes the best drivers?"
and answering: "the car they practiced with."
No, it's how they practiced and HOW MUCH they practiced.
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On August 05 2011 03:34 masami.sc wrote:
Speaking of blunts... kinda want one right now
This will definatly not make you the best starcraft player.
But man i could go for one too.
I agree being the emperor and loving the game are the best ways to be the bestest.
You cant try hard enough to be really really good at something without liking it.
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On August 05 2011 03:26 Blunt wrote:
What makes the best SC2 players?
Brood War.
EDIT: Blog-banned for honesty; the iron curtain that SC2 fans surround themselves grows thicker.
I agree, but respectfully at that... I don't like to see our community so divided. Many of these top sc2 players have come from BW, and wouldn't be sc2 players if they had been the very best at BW. They're the 2nd liners, the benchers, if that, but still very skillful. I would love to see the havoc the active BW progamers could do if they all somehow switched over all at once.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On August 05 2011 04:54 Horrde wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:26 Blunt wrote:
What makes the best SC2 players?
Brood War.
EDIT: Blog-banned for honesty; the iron curtain that SC2 fans surround themselves grows thicker. I agree, but respectfully at that... I don't like to see our community so divided. Many of these top sc2 players have come from BW, and wouldn't be sc2 players if they had been the very best at BW. They're the 2nd liners, the benchers, if that, but still very skillful. I would love to see the havoc the active BW progamers could do if they all somehow switched over all at once.
I mean, why are BW progamers better? It's because of the BW progamer mentality of hard work and constant practice. So far, because the BW proscene is strong, only older players like BoxeR and NaDa or bench-warmers like NesTea have made their way over-- if even a couple of the currently high-ranked BW players come over, players who in addition to a BW progamer work ethic have immense talent, it would revolutionize the Sc2 scene.
On the other hand, they would probably make much less money. There's a reason that you don't see Flash or Stork coming over to Sc2, and that is: they're making mad bank being BW players, and it'd be a pretty long transition to reach the top of Sc2, although I'm certain players of that caliber would do so eventually.
Regardless, the thing that the BW players bring isn't the magic essence of BW, it's the strength underlying that essence: the hard-working ethic and devotion to working on improving the fundamentals and fundamental understanding of the game. It's not about talent, it's about focus, and it doesn't matter where you learned it, it's what makes the difference.
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Talent matters just as much as any other aspect.
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talent + shittons of dedicated practice + little luck
the top has varying mixes of the three, but this is how being good at anything works
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
I think that saying that the best players come from BW is both accurate and true; but I think this is because these players have a history of hard work and perseverance. Really, the mental discipline involved in becoming a progamer is enormous, which is why we see koreans, especially ex-BW koreans, succeeding so much.
@ Blunt (his edited post)
+ Show Spoiler [spoilered because it's not relev…] +On August 05 2011 03:26 Blunt wrote:
What makes the best SC2 players?
Brood War.
EDIT: Blog-banned for honesty; the iron curtain that SC2 fans surround themselves grows thicker. You'll notice that other posters, who responded with posts longer than 2 words (which is how long your post was before being blog-banned), were not banned, because they contributed to the discussion. Having a post of which the entirety is "Brood War" is not contributing to the discussion. As I said via PM, you'll be unbanned on Saturday. I am also a BW fan, you know, but that doesn't make me a BM fan. My sig is even a BW reference.
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Well, that's literally the 10,000-dollar question, isn't it?
I would say obviously, everyone can't be equally good, so naturally, because of varying levels of intelligence, skill and talent, people just fall into their place on the totem pole. If you're low on the totem poll, but want to be "the best", then first, you have to realize that being the best would take an enormous amount of sacrifice and enthusiasm for the game, and even then - your odds of being one of the top players are very, very, very bad. That's what makes it so special to be the best player.
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i feel like talent is overrated.
it's not just time practiced but how well you practice.
focus is just something to practice.
amateurs focus on things that pros don't think twice about because they've practiced it for so long that it's second nature.
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Having a perfect read on your opponent, knowing nearly every timing out there, focus and confidence (!), perfect macro and glorious micro would probably make you the best.
On the other side you could fly Banshees into turrets and marines without killing anything, which would make you atleast TheBest and is a lot easier to accomplish.
For my first step I´m at least good at the latter, I´m sure the rest will come.
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On August 05 2011 03:34 masami.sc wrote:
Speaking of blunt... kinda want one right now
I refused to buy some goody today. I don't know whats wrong with me.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Exactly! Now we're talking. Practice is how you do it, and you can't practice for long stretches of time, massing games, and grinding the standard BOs without enormous focus and love of the game. As they say, it's not just practice that makes perfect, but perfect practice that makes perfect.
I actually prefer this thread for an indication of how one wants to get better. Artosis, as always, hits the nail on the head with the hammer.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78677
On August 06 2011 04:04 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:34 masami.sc wrote:
Speaking of blunt... kinda want one right now I refused to buy some goody today. I don't know whats wrong with me.
How obtuse of you; I expect more nuance from Grettin usually. Still, I think he's very sharp from what I've seen from him around. I'll have to apologize in advance for being so square and dull about the topic of blunt. + Show Spoiler +
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EPT
