EPTJudging from the schools' websites, having good grades is not going to get you into those schools. I'm guessing many of you have walked this road before and any information would be great! Thanks in advance!
University Application Help
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
Judging from the schools' websites, having good grades is not going to get you into those schools. I'm guessing many of you have walked this road before and any information would be great! Thanks in advance! | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
Process: 1. Get a head start. Senior year isn't (or shouldn't) be easier than junior year. Balancing applications and school work can be challenging, and you won't want to sacrifice effort on either. Some teachers are nice enough to give you a bit of a break during application season. 3. Be organized and neat. Write down all the deadlines, all the requirements, all the essay topics, etc. Know if the school has a rolling admission. 4. Approach teachers for recommendations early. It is important to pick a teacher you like, but you must also consider how effective of a letter they will write. This is not the time to pick your favorite goofball teacher. Make sure to pick a teacher that teaches a high level (AP/IB) class, relevant to your planned major, if possible. Before you approach a teacher, have everything else ready. Give the teacher your application/resumé, instructions, and a page on why you chose the school and major. Provide more, and impress the teacher. 4. Recycle essays for different prompts. 6. Check, again, and again, and again. Edit. Edit. Edit. Seriously. 7. Apply to the University of Chicago. Resumé: 1. No where in your application can you hint that you lack motivation in anything. 2. Embellish your achievements. I'm not telling you to lie, but you have to make your achievements seem as important and as significant as possible. Leadership is always better than membership. Take care not to seem boastful about the wrong things though. + Show Spoiler + Overly stressing that you won an amateur SC2 tournament, and how important it was, can work against you. 3. Sometimes, it can be helpful to be short and concise with lesser achievements to make them seem less "lame." For other achievements, you want to detail them as much as possible. 4. Show commitment wherever you can. Show that you care about what you do. Show that you have spent time and effort in a certain field, and explain what you have learned from it. Essay: 1. Brainstorm topics -> narrow down the list -> answer uniquely -> EDIT/POLISH. 2. Don't pick generic topics to talk about. Trust me, the first "brilliant" essay idea you'll have will probably be generic. If you are going to talk about travel, parents, sports, etc., make sure you have a unique take. On a related note, don't be afraid to completely rewrite an essay if it sucks. Just make sure you are managing your time. 3. Make sure you have 'concrete details' in your essay. 4. Analyze the topic instead of just describing it. Through your thoughts/reactions to whatever you are writing about, the admissions staff will try to analyze your personality. Write with that in your mind. 5. Your writing should appeal to a wide audience. + Show Spoiler + Writing about Starcraft is (most likely) not a good idea. Either your reader won't know what you're taking about, or you will have to spend valuable sentences in your essay "teaching" the reader about Starcraft. 6. Be yourself. Share about yourself. Raise intriguing questions. Highlight growth. Start with mystery and end with a bang. "Show don't tell." Instead of saying, "I always try my best," use an example. Illustrate how you always try your best. 7. Edit. You better fucking edit. Don't be afraid to ask others (including teachers) to help you. It is possible that you would want to avoid other super competitive applicants. 8. Use one cliche and I will kill you over the internet. Don't over-use the thesaurus. Don't write some crazy abstract philosophy piece. Don't write about sex, crimes you have committed, your bad grades, why the university is perfect (unless that's the prompt), your dream of world peace, "the big game." | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
On August 02 2011 07:24 Karliath wrote: I'm going into college this fall, so I was in your position just a year ago. ^_^ Where do you go to school? Process: 1. Get a head start. Senior year isn't (or shouldn't) be easier than junior year. Balancing applications and school work can be challenging, and you won't want to sacrifice effort on either. Some teachers are nice enough to give you a bit of a break during application season. 3. Be organized and neat. Write down all the deadlines, all the requirements, all the essay topics, etc. Know if the school has a rolling admission. 4. Approach teachers for recommendations early. It is important to pick a teacher you like, but you must also consider how effective of a letter they will write. This is not the time to pick your favorite goofball teacher. Make sure to pick a teacher that teaches a high level (AP/IB) class, relevant to your planned major, if possible. Before you approach a teacher, have everything else ready. Give the teacher your application/resumé, instructions, and a page on why you chose the school and major. Provide more, and impress the teacher. 4. Recycle essays for different prompts. 6. Check, again, and again, and again. Edit. Edit. Edit. Seriously. 7. Apply to the University of Chicago. Resumé: 1. No where in your application can you hint that you lack motivation in anything. 2. Embellish your achievements. I'm not telling you to lie, but you have to make your achievements seem as important and as significant as possible. Leadership is always better than membership. Take care not to seem boastful about the wrong things though. + Show Spoiler + Overly stressing that you won an amateur SC2 tournament, and how important it was, can work against you. 3. Sometimes, it can be helpful to be short and concise with lesser achievements to make them seem less "lame." For other achievements, you want to detail them as much as possible. 4. Show commitment wherever you can. Show that you care about what you do. Show that you have spent time and effort in a certain field, and explain what you have learned from it. Essay: 1. Brainstorm topics -> narrow down the list -> answer uniquely -> EDIT/POLISH. 2. Don't pick generic topics to talk about. Trust me, the first "brilliant" essay idea you'll have will probably be generic. If you are going to talk about travel, parents, sports, etc., make sure you have a unique take. On a related note, don't be afraid to completely rewrite an essay if it sucks. Just make sure you are managing your time. 3. Make sure you have 'concrete details' in your essay. 4. Analyze the topic instead of just describing it. Through your thoughts/reactions to whatever you are writing about, the admissions staff will try to analyze your personality. Write with that in your mind. 5. Your writing should appeal to a wide audience. + Show Spoiler + Writing about Starcraft is (most likely) not a good idea. Either your reader won't know what you're taking about, or you will have to spend valuable sentences in your essay "teaching" the reader about Starcraft. 6. Be yourself. Share about yourself. Raise intriguing questions. Highlight growth. Start with mystery and end with a bang. "Show don't tell." Instead of saying, "I always try my best," use an example. Illustrate how you always try your best. 7. Edit. You better fucking edit. Don't be afraid to ask others (including teachers) to help you. It is possible that you would want to avoid other super competitive applicants. 8. Use one cliche and I will kill you over the internet. Don't over-use the thesaurus. Don't write some crazy abstract philosophy piece. Don't write about sex, crimes you have committed, your bad grades, why the university is perfect (unless that's the prompt), your dream of world peace, "the big game." Wow thanks for the quick response! Regarding the essay how long should it be? 1000 words? And just on a sidenote, what topic did you write about? | ||
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Ardhimas
Indonesia75 Posts
May I ask what major you are considering? Also, I'm not entirely sure about this, but I personally think you shouldn't make yourself seem perfect in your essay. You should in your resumé, but I believe the admission boards prefer humans with souls who have a narrow vocabulary range, writing about an honest experience over perfect robots writing their essays like a piece of art. I wrote about how I wanted to cry after carrying a 15kg bag up a mountain hike for half an hour, only to have to start carrying it again 5 minutes later when I saw my friend struggling, and felt no regret. I got into UTexas Austin engineering, which is quite prestigious I believe. Also, I'm Asian. So I must've done something amazing to have been accepted to the disproportionately high Asian student population. | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
On August 02 2011 07:57 Ardhimas wrote: Other than applying to the University of Chicago, the above poster's points is probably enough information for you to hang on to. May I ask what major you are considering? Also, I'm not entirely sure about this, but I personally think you shouldn't make yourself seem perfect in your essay. You should in your resumé, but I believe the admission boards prefer humans with souls who have a narrow vocabulary range, writing about an honest experience over perfect robots writing their essays like a piece of art. I wrote about how I wanted to cry after carrying a 15kg bag up a mountain hike for half an hour, only to have to start carrying it again 5 minutes later when I saw my friend struggling, and felt no regret. I got into UTexas Austin engineering, which is quite prestigious I believe. Also, I'm Asian. So I must've done something amazing to have been accepted to the disproportionately high Asian student population. Hey man, I'm thinking of going into finance or law. But most likely finance.Gratz on ur entrance to UTexas Austin engineering! So would you say that a personal experience works best for the application essay? | ||
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Antifate
United States415 Posts
 Of the things he (assumption :3) listed, I think having strong essays is the most important thing. In the end, due to procrastination, I only had time to really edit and personalize a single essay. Unsurprisingly, I got into the school I sent that essay to, and got rejected/waitlisted from many of the other colleges where I sent generic this-is-why-your-school-is-a-good-fit-for-me and I-learned-a-lot-through-this-competition/recital/performance-experience essays. As for essay length, my "Common Application" essay was 3 pages single-spaced in normal formatting/font, though it included a lot of short dialogue lines. The individual essays colleges requested varied in length, and were typically pretty short (Columbia had a 1500 character limit 0.o). As for the actual essay, don't be afraid to be conversational and casual. You don't need to use flowery words, and feel free to use apostrophes. Be careful of adding superfluous words. With character/word limits on most of these essays, you don't want to waste words with things not related to the main idea. If a section is well-written, but irrelevant to your main themes, omit it. I'm pretty sure most admissions officers prefer shorter but weightier submissions. Be careful about your tone too. Reading over some of my essays, I felt that I was really mechanical in a few of them. I used many sentences with the same length/structure and it was awkward. In addition, I wrote about pretty generic things about being nervous before trying new things or whatever, rather than emphasizing what I really learned so a few essays definitely came out bland. Don't do that. Most of the time, many other applicants will have similar grades/extracurriculars/recommendations so your essays are really the chance for you to stand out, so you should really think about them, especially since that many of your grades are "locked in," as a senior. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On August 02 2011 08:25 xXFireandIceXx wrote: Hey man, I'm thinking of going into finance or law. But most likely finance.Gratz on ur entrance to UTexas Austin engineering! So would you say that a personal experience works best for the application essay? What exactly do you mean by the application essay? The "Personal Statement" in the Common App? In some cases, this will be the only chance you will have to show who you are as a person, so write about whatever you think will show readers the most about who you are. Many universities have their own essays and prompts too. In some cases, they won't give you a chance to write about a personal experience, so you'll have to answer the prompt however you can that still shows who you are as a person. On August 02 2011 07:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote: Wow thanks for the quick response! Regarding the essay how long should it be? 1000 words? And just on a sidenote, what topic did you write about? Essay lengths vary from school to school. I don't really want to talk about my common app essay, because the topic and style I wrote in was rather complex. It worked out very well for me, but I wouldn't advise anyone to follow the same path. There's too much room for errors that can cause the essay to become very dull. Feel free to PM me if you think of a topic you want to write about. I'll tell you what I think about it. Antifate gives good advice. | ||
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Ardhimas
Indonesia75 Posts
On August 02 2011 08:25 xXFireandIceXx wrote: Hey man, I'm thinking of going into finance or law. But most likely finance.Gratz on ur entrance to UTexas Austin engineering! So would you say that a personal experience works best for the application essay? I see. Yes, I believe so, and that is also what I have been told by my school, and all the admissions officers who have come to give speeches and stuff. Don't make yourself look like a sleeper devil, but I think it would be beneficial to let it slide that you get unreasonably annoyed when people leave doors open in the house, or if you hate eating bread. I remember I wrote about how I often subconsciously expect returns for the deeds that I do, even when I know that I shouldn't, and I try not to. Also, if it's not too late, diversify your activities. I had kickboxing classes, learning drums, swimming training, MUN debating, and I also taught athletics to primary school kids. Not things you'd expect from stereotypical engineering students, but it's what they want. Also, this is your life decision. Don't be afraid to apply to 13 universities. I applied to 5. Biggest regret of my life so far, especially with one being impossible to get into, and another telling me that my application was incomplete on the very last day of them sending out decisions, WHEN IT SAID ON THE WEBSITE THAT MY APPLICATION WAS FUCKING COMPLETE. University of Michigan at Ann Arbor. Don't apply there. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
i don't think i wrote about playing the game, but rather the thrills of being up on stage, how all eyes are on you, the feeling of accomplishment, etc. without making it seem like it was the greatest thing ever and changed my life. it was just a snapshot of something i liked to do. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On August 02 2011 08:44 Ardhimas wrote: I see. Yes, I believe so, and that is also what I have been told by my school, and all the admissions officers who have come to give speeches and stuff. Don't make yourself look like a sleeper devil, but I think it would be beneficial to let it slide that you get unreasonably annoyed when people leave doors open in the house, or if you hate eating bread. I remember I wrote about how I often subconsciously expect returns for the deeds that I do, even when I know that I shouldn't, and I try not to. Also, if it's not too late, diversify your activities. I had kickboxing classes, learning drums, swimming training, MUN debating, and I also taught athletics to primary school kids. Not things you'd expect from stereotypical engineering students, but it's what they want. Also, this is your life decision. Don't be afraid to apply to 13 universities. I applied to 5. Biggest regret of my life so far, especially with one being impossible to get into, and another telling me that my application was incomplete on the very last day of them sending out decisions, WHEN IT SAID ON THE WEBSITE THAT MY APPLICATION WAS FUCKING COMPLETE. University of Michigan at Ann Arbor. Don't apply there. Concerning activities: First of all, it is good to participate in activities that other people are less likely to participate in. There's nothing wrong with playing the piano/violin, but if you've been playing the baritone for 7 years, it could potentially be a lot more impressive. At the very least, you'll stand out for being unique. Having a wide range of activities is ostensibly great, but you must be careful. Do not spread yourself too thin. Again, schools are looking for commitment in their applicants. It's good to participate in a lot of activities, but you better make sure that you still have lots of hours/years and leadership positions 1-3 things.+ Show Spoiler + For example, playing four different sports during your four years of high school is not a good thing. Schools would much rather see you grow and improve in one sport. Even if you don't make varsity, it's okay, and you can maybe even write about how you're "not that good, but still have a lot of passion for the game." Of course, if you can do well in few sports, that's great too. Just make sure you don't spend your whole time jumping around. I talked to a Stanford admissions official, and he said that the important thing is to, "be the best at what you do." Don't try to be okay across the board, and don't do what everyone else is doing. Your senior year, try to get as many leadership positions as possible. Join a few new clubs to increase your activity count (whether you stay in them after application season is up to you). This may seem contradictory to my previous "don't be a jack of all trades" advice, but it's not. I'm assuming that you can already show your commitment/leadership in some activities, so joining new clubs won't make you look "shallow." If you accomplish something significant after you application is sent in, do not be afraid to contact the school. On the other hand, make sure the addition is truly important. Admissions will not look favorably upon you if you send in a letter just to tell them that you placed 2nd in an online sc2 tournament (why do I keep using sc2 examples). Personally, I notified all the schools I applied to in February when I made it to state level in debate. ----------- One more thing came across my mind. Mail hand-written, physical letters when time is not an issue. Just had an interview? Mail the interviewer a thank you letter. Submitted your early decision application? Write admissions wishing them a merry Christmas, and briefly restate how much you want to get in. Leave an impression, but always make sure not to seem desperate. | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
One more thing came across my mind. Mail hand-written, physical letters when time is not an issue. Just had an interview? Mail the interviewer a thank you letter. Submitted your early decision application? Write admissions wishing them a merry Christmas, and briefly restate how much you want to get in. Really? Wow, didn't even consider that. Also, you are attending the University of Chicago i am assuming? | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
Fall of last year, I ran a couple of lower league tournaments called the RISING Cup. You can imagine how a simple "Ran some Starcraft 2 (video game) tournaments" is very unimpressive on an application. However, on the "is there anything else you want us to know?" section on the Common App, I chose to write about the RISING Cup. This is what I mean by embellishing, making the achievement look a lot more impressive (look specifically at the last paragraph). This summer’s release of Starcraft II, the highly anticipated sequel to the award-winning 1998 video game Starcraft, generated a series of professional tournaments with prize pools up to $170,000. Along with veteran followers of the “e-sport,” new fans were drawn in to the competitive video game world. I noticed that, despite the number of casual players who followed the professional tournaments, there were very few opportunities for any of them to compete. Therefore, I decided to create my own tournament in order to provide lower-league players a chance to improve, while presenting them the opportunity to participate in a competitive experience that modeled the professional scene. After a few weeks of planning and organizing, the first “RISING Cup” was held with great success. I have gone on to host a second “RISING Cup,” and a few friends and I have also created a “RISING League.” It made me proud to have people thank me for giving them an opportunity to compete. Moreover, I am happy to see that many more amateur tournaments have been held in response to my initiative. Video games are generally scorned by the public, but founding and organizing my own tournaments have taught me many practical skills. Coordinating all of the contestants, finding a live commentator, and managing sponsors and donations for the prize-pool were certainly tests to my organization skills. I did not lie whatsoever. What I failed to mention was that the RISING League never survived for more than two weeks. I was one of the first to host a real low-level tournament, but there is no "proof" that subsequent tournaments were in response to what I did. Finding a commentator was as hard as sending a PM. There was only one sponsor who chanced upon my thread and offered a $10 prize pool (I did not actively seek for sponsors), and one competitor decided that he wanted to donate $5. The only truly hard part was getting all the players to follow instructions T_T. That was a complete pain in the ass. This short piece also shows that I follow my passions, I care for others in the community, I take initiative, and I have the leadership skills to manage such an event. Notice how I do not explicitly state these things, yet the message is clear. | ||
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Antifate
United States415 Posts
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On August 02 2011 10:01 Antifate wrote: As an international student, you're probably not going to get an interview from US schools (I didn't get one for Caltech or UChicago as an east coast student). Also, I wouldn't send a Happy Holidays card (especially not a specific Merry Christmas/Christian one or whatever). It seems kind of desperate. I think the potential benefit you could receive is outweighed by the fact that you come off as someone who wants a leg-up outside the normal admissions process. This could vary by school though, who knows. Indeed, I should rephrase. Do not send a greeting card, that's just lol-sy. Sending a short hand-written letter, on lined paper, reaffirming your interest in an ED application is a positive move though. I just happened to add "merry Christmas" at the end of mine...because it was right before Christmas. There is a smaller applicant pool for ED, and that letter showing interest and initiative may just be the difference. It's not going to be a game changer though. If your resume sucks, you're still not getting in. From what I know, there is nothing wrong with getting a "leg-up." You just have to do it right. If you send in an essay, of course they're not going to read it. Furthermore, they're going to be annoyed, because they're already receiving enough mail every day to sort through junk they're not going to read. A holiday card is also laughable. I do believe a short letter is different though. They can read it in 30 seconds (it's not like they're not going to open the envelope), and it leaves a positive impression. It's not like you're sending a new letter to say how much better you are than everyone else. It's not unfair boasting. You're simply showing how much you care. | ||
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Thrill
2599 Posts
As for the eye-catching achievement, it should be field related. If you're going into finance, nothing is going to beat running a small business. If you have enough time to set up a website and keep at least one person on payroll (graphic designer, writer or something) - that would be something likely to be very well received. An SC2 blogging website could definitely work, preferably with some social media exposure (get the autographs of some progamers, most SC2 progamers are very approachable when it comes to this sort of stuff, again - egos and their rubbing - then hold a lottery where every facebook 'like' or retweet earns a chance at winning the signed mousepad or w/e). I don't know what country you are from, but if you have any multinational corporation that originated from it, try to get an entry level internship with it over summer. If you clearly state your ambition to pursue an Ivy and that the internship would be a merit for you, they might take you in with hopes that you may one day return to the company. Best of luck! If you have the money for it, a classical education at a prestigious institution is definitely worth it. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
As per activities and letters of recommendations; unless you have something ridiculous (like a letter from the President or something haha), then the University doesn't really consider it all that much. Everyone and I mean everyone applying to these colleges will have good recommendations saying something to the effect of: "This person was a great student and had wonderful traits including X, Y and Z. I remember the time when...". Activities are the same; everyone has a few activities in which they've really embellished their achievements. These are the default, you must do these things, but its only part of the process. My suggestion would simply to apply to as many colleges as you feel comfortable. The more you apply, the better your chances. Its a lot of painstaking work trying to make sure that all of your documents are correct for every single college you are applying to, but its necessary. Oh, and plus, as an international student, it helps if you are able to pay full tuition. That's one of the unspoken wishes of certain colleges. (Not so much the ivies since they have large endowments, but of many other colleges). And as a prospective finance student, I would say that Wharton at UPenn would be a great fit. | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
As per activities and letters of recommendations; unless you have something ridiculous (like a letter from the President or something haha), then the University doesn't really consider it all that much. Everyone and I mean everyone applying to these colleges will have good recommendations saying something to the effect of: "This person was a great student and had wonderful traits including X, Y and Z. I remember the time when...". Activities are the same; everyone has a few activities in which they've really embellished their achievements. These are the default, you must do these things, but its only part of the process. Then what exactly do they judge you on? I mean, it seems rather random from this perspective since so many students are just so alike. | ||
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XXGeneration
United States625 Posts
On August 02 2011 11:02 TranceStorm wrote: As per activities and letters of recommendations; unless you have something ridiculous (like a letter from the President or something haha), then the University doesn't really consider it all that much. Everyone and I mean everyone applying to these colleges will have good recommendations saying something to the effect of: "This person was a great student and had wonderful traits including X, Y and Z. I remember the time when...". Activities are the same; everyone has a few activities in which they've really embellished their achievements. These are the default, you must do these things, but its only part of the process. I feel this is slightly untrue; one of my brother's very good friends had surprisingly "average" stats for our school district. Although to give an idea of how competitive our school district is, 13 people got into Princeton this year. In his year, he was the only one to go to Harvard. One of the differences he had was that he had a letter from the mayor of our town. Other than that, he was just like everyone else in our town. | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
On August 02 2011 15:45 XXGeneration wrote: I feel this is slightly untrue; one of my brother's very good friends had surprisingly "average" stats for our school district. Although to give an idea of how competitive our school district is, 13 people got into Princeton this year. In his year, he was the only one to go to Harvard. One of the differences he had was that he had a letter from the mayor of our town. Other than that, he was just like everyone else in our town. Out of curiosity, how did he get a letter from the mayor? Won some contest? | ||
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Antifate
United States415 Posts
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Z3kk
4099 Posts
 Looks like some good advice is being dished out :D ....and of course all conversation stops once again when I post in any sort of thread.  | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
On August 03 2011 04:37 Antifate wrote: I'm not sure how it is in whatever country you live in, but it's very possible to intern for the mayor/governor or a congressman (you probably will not get paid) as long as you ask. It may be a little bit too late at this point though. I live in Canada... haha. And I haven't heard of any internships with the mayor, but there are some opportunities with aldermans. But yah, kinda late. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
What majors/programs/departments are you applying for? It's good to have a lot of general advices (you have a plenty from the first page) but you need to let people know the specifics so that your application can be fine-tuned. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
I am assuming this is for UG... I think recommendation letters are particularly important out of your application, because everyone else will have very similar grades and ECs. If you have ever taken classes from universities or worked for professors, I suggest asking them for recommendation letters rather than your high school teachers. If you can find none of those, try researching your teachers' backgrounds, and asking those who have higher accomplishments. I honestly believe that the recommendation letters outweigh everything else. Some generic advice on personal statement... make sure you polish/sharpen it over and over again, like Valyrian steel. I think the average expected length is around two pages (they will tell you), and you really need to make every sentence, even every word, count. Every sentence/word in your personal statement must be there to serve the purpose of separating you from the rest. | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
On August 04 2011 01:01 Cambium wrote: He said finances/law. I am assuming this is for UG... I think recommendation letters are particularly important out of your application, because everyone else will have very similar grades and ECs. If you have ever taken classes from universities or worked for professors, I suggest asking them for recommendation letters rather than your high school teachers. If you can find none of those, try researching your teachers' backgrounds, and asking those who have higher accomplishments. I honestly believe that the recommendation letters outweigh everything else. Some generic advice on personal statement... make sure you polish/sharpen it over and over again, like Valyrian steel. I think the average expected length is around two pages (they will tell you), and you really need to make every sentence, even every word, count. Every sentence/word in your personal statement must be there to serve the purpose of separating you from the rest. But how can the universities tell which teachers have better backgrounds? I mean, don't they receive like tens of thousands of applications each year? | ||
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