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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Reading TL.net is Awesome
I've read just about every guide on TL at how to get better at Sc2. I've also read all the featured matchup-specific guides for Terran play. I've also read every guide on TL at how to get better at BW, and the featured matchup-specific guides for Terran play. I watch streamers who explain what they're doing and try to get a handle on strategy.
I think I kind of understand what the deal is now in each matchup. That's not my issue; my issue is that, despite my understanding, I'm actually pretty shitty at starcraft 2. Mechanically, I mean. Like Micro and Macro and stuff. I'm in Diamond League, which isn't so bad, but at the bottom, and I want to rise to the top. I just need to practice-- but I don't particularly like laddering, due to the styles used there and a couple of other things, like difficulty practicing 1 matchup on 1 map over and over again. After some thinking and some trying, here's what I've figured out:
How I Would Learn If I Were Truly Manly
If all you want to do is just get better at Starcraft 2, this can be done with minimal laddering-- just ladder barely enough until your MMR accurately represents your current skill-- so that you play opponents of the same skill level as yourself. Then play like 20ish games. Be very, very manner, and play your best. After each game ask if the guy wants to be a practice partner with you. About half of them will say yes. Keep on doing so until you have at least 3 practice partners of each race. Ideally, you're asking people who beat you, since it's nicer to practice someone slightly better than you than someone slightly worse. However, if you win a game that was close, you can ask that person also.
Proceed to grind 1v1s with each of them in turn, practice matchups, build orders, mechanics, whatever- but GRIND. For example, play TvP and do a 1 rax fast expand against the same opponent 10 times and tell him to try to best it in every way he can think of (from 1 base allins to 6 gate timing attacks to DTs to a fast 3rd, or whatever). Keep on doing it until you're mostly solid against most attacks. Do the same for him, of course, to help him learn whatever build he wants to learn. Do this with every practice partner. If any of them aren't interesting in grinding, remove the player from your friend list and ladder again until he is replaced.
Your skill will rise prodigiously, and so will that of your practice partners. This was, in effect, how I got from gold league into diamond league. I'm not sure whether or not this is useful for ascending from diamond league into master league MMR, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
A couple things to note: + Show Spoiler +- 1v1 obs games and iCJug games are poison for grinding in my opinion. These are by far my two favorite UMS maps, but being in one of these games with a bunch of people tends to lead to a lot of hanging out and not a lot of playing for most people involved. Also, the replays are really really annoying to review (oh, yes, about 2 hours in I played a 10 minute PvP that I want to review...)
- Your practice partners need to be near your skill level. Your macro and micro are not 4gate-proof if the 4gate you've tested against hits at 8:00. If your partners are below or above your skill level, remove them from your friends list and go find new ones on the ladder.
- Also, your practice partners need to be online at the same time as you to practice with. If you find that even with 3 of each race, you're not online at the same time as them, feel free to add more.
- Unless you really enjoy grinding and getting better, all of this is gonna be sucky and lame.
- This is what the pros do, but instead of "Friends List" it's "Professional Gaming Team". It works well for them.
P.S.: Looking for diamond league practice partners on KR or NA. Contact me via PM 
 
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Get a euro account. I was diamond in season 1 for my 30 or so games, which obviously isn't an indicative of actual skill, but I never play as much as I'd like since I don't like random laddering.
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
If your partners are below or above your skill level, remove them from your friends list and go find new ones on the ladder.
-_-
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
An EU account would be cool, but it would lag so much... I'm not sure I'd actually be able to improve in that respect. Maybe if I lived on the East coast?
EDIT:
On July 30 2011 02:43 Ares[Effort] wrote:Show nested quote +If your partners are below or above your skill level, remove them from your friends list and go find new ones on the ladder. -_-
Ok, I mean like, if they're egregiously better or worse than you, don't practice with them because it wouldn't be beneficial. Don't like be mean to them or anything U_U
EDIT EDIT: Also like, I say this because apparently if you have more than like 40ish friends on bnet the profile-viewing feature slows down so much you can't view player's profiles any more, so pruning is fairly important. I mean, if you want to do other stuff with them, keep them on your list of course.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On July 30 2011 02:43 Blazinghand wrote:
EDIT EDIT: Also like, I say this because apparently if you have more than like 40ish friends on bnet the profile-viewing feature slows down so much you can't view player's profiles any more, so pruning is fairly important. I mean, if you want to do other stuff with them, keep them on your list of course.
That's fixed.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On July 30 2011 03:17 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 02:43 Blazinghand wrote:
EDIT EDIT: Also like, I say this because apparently if you have more than like 40ish friends on bnet the profile-viewing feature slows down so much you can't view player's profiles any more, so pruning is fairly important. I mean, if you want to do other stuff with them, keep them on your list of course. That's fixed.
Ah, well never mind then. I think my internet might just be bad because my bnet is slow U_U
And it's not like you'll never play with them; if they chat you or something, you can do so-- but given that the person isn't like a personal friend or something, if they're not a practice partner and not a personal friend there's no particular need to keep them on the friend list. Obviously, should you become friends with the player over time practicing with them then you wouldn't remove them.
But like it's a waste of both your time and his to spend a couple hours grinding if you don't have similar skill levels.
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I always found it most beneficial to play against people better than me. Even a lot better, can be frustration but it always made me improve the fastest
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There are also reasons to play against people below your skill level.
-It cements a lot of fundamentals. There are things that, if you play a higher skilled player, you will only have one opportunity to do a certain skill/technique, otherwise they'll block it off. Against weaker players, you may have more than one opportunity, letting you get the practice in. Practicing that will help you make sure you can convert that one opportunity when it counts.
-You get prepared for stuff that is normally looked over and is easy to correct. An easy example is from playing the computer Broodwar AI. In TvP, I've never seen a pro game with that stupid 8 zealot rush the computer does, because the Terran build order can deflect it. But if you don't know how to hold off that 8 zealot rush with a modern Terran BO, you're fucked, even if it doesn't happen in a real game. Playing lesser skilled players prepares you for situations like that, and it doesn't require a lot of repetition.
-You recognize more winning opportunities. I used to play people way better than me at Tekken/SF and hardly won, if ever. I've given up large advantages because I didn't know what to do with it. Knowing and recognizing when you can win, as well as capitalizing on it, is an important skill.
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On July 30 2011 03:43 Blazinghand wrote:
But like it's a waste of both your time and his to spend a couple hours grinding if you don't have similar skill levels.
Not true at all. I practice my build orders and tighten up my mechanics while practicing PvP with a diamond friend of mine who hasn't beaten me once. I continue to improve my transition out of the early game and he gets better by leaps and bounds by learning how to stop my pressure and aggression. Same goes for my plat Z friend.
If I'm willing to put the time in its never harmful for them and I can still use the games to my advantage.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Hm. Okay, Clearly there is a benefit to practice with players of different skill levels-- maybe even a large one. Is it better than practicing with a player of the same skill level, though? I could see how if two players practice, the weaker player benefits quite a bit, but wouldn't the strong player not benefit? For example, if I was a silver league player practicing my 2-rax against a plat leaguer who was going 15 hatch 14 pool, relative to him, my stutter-stepping and macro and other skills will be weak-- and I will get much better by practicing against the stronger Plat League player. However, would this be beneficial for the plat league zerg to practice holding off silver league 2-rax attacks?
I mean, if two players are similar in skill but one is better than the other, that's fine. But I don't understand how a player who was substantially more skilled than me would benefit more from practicing with me than with someone of greater skill than myself.
Lastly, I want to distinguish between someone you want to practice with and a friend. If it's your friend, you're obviously not going to defriend him. And if your practice partner has a great personality and you guys get along and chat well, then you're not going to defriend him. But if he's only a practice partner, and that practice isn't useful for you, why would you bother? And just because you defriend him doesn't mean you can't chat with him if he starts chatting with you, or even play some games if you want-- it just means he won't be clogging up your friend list, and you can't initiate chats with him.
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Yeah, I find it very limited to how much I can better myself by playing with people who aren't masters I can agree with that. Also I have removed people who I no longer practice with so again you are correct. However if you practice with somebody and get along normally you keep them added because generally although you might not talk to them often you still play once or twice a week.
I have a few practice partners that I won't talk to for 2+ weeks and suddenly play like 6 hours straight against them 2 days in a row. lol it's good to not burn your bridges imo especially if you can still get something out of it ^^ But i recognize your point and to a certain extent agree with it.
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On July 30 2011 08:53 Blazinghand wrote:
Hm. Okay, Clearly there is a benefit to practice with players of different skill levels-- maybe even a large one. Is it better than practicing with a player of the same skill level, though?
I don't think two players will ever completely match up exactly the same, so it's extremely hard to compare, and people's skill level can vary by day, week, month.
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EPT
